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To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
[QUOTE="Chris Peterson53, post: 61691, member: 487"][QUOTE=adriatic;

It’s pretty obvious you aren't satisfied with the answers you've received...
but if you ask me—nobody can give you a straight answer to a question framed like that...

I mean, why would a man want to be a father? At the end of the day,
any guy is only going to provide an answer that makes sense to him personally...
and frankly, his reasoning doesn't have to be "acceptable" or even make sense to another man.
👍

That’s all true, but I can't help but wonder—why am I getting way more responses from women than from men? 😕
[/QUOTE]
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
mistyfox812 said:My life? It’s precious to me, man. Seriously.

I mean, sure, I can be proud of certain things about myself—maybe my strength, looks, brains, education, guts, experience, or just having a solid moral compass and some deep insight... But all that stuff only matters if I actually *exist*. If I'm alive. Life comes before all those qualities, period.

And it’s not just me feeling this way—it’s everyone who’s breathing. We all value our lives. We all try (even if it’s just a little bit, every once in a while) to hang on to this life. It’s precious to us all.

I got my life from my parents. Plain and simple. Without them, there is no me. Without their physical connection, I wouldn't be here. Without my mom carrying me for nine months, I wouldn't exist.

I owe my whole life to my parents.

Even if they hadn't given me anything else after that (and honestly, they gave me way more than enough), I’d still be incredibly grateful for the single most valuable thing they provided: my existence as a human being. Because without that, I wouldn't have had anything else at all. It's hands down the greatest gift I could ever receive.

When you face a gift like that, all you can really do is say thank you.

And they received that same gift from their parents. And their parents before them. They could have done whatever they wanted with it—found ways to have fun, avoided hard work, or even questioned it. They could have asked "why?" Why bother being a parent under the circumstances of the USA, Nazi Germany, the Kingdom of America, the Austro-Canadian Empire, or under the Venetians, Turks, Byzantines, Romans, Illyrians, beyond the Carpathians, or in Persia? No matter if they were under rich rulers or poor ones, powerful or oppressed, sick or healthy, everyone had their own questionable perspectives (just like human perspectives always have been). Yet, they all passed that gift along—the gift they got from their own parents—passing it down, and down, and down, until it finally reached me.

If they hadn't passed it on, I wouldn't be here.

And honestly, I'm just glad to be here. 🙂 I hope you guys feel the same way. 😁

If the day ever comes where I get to give someone else a gift this precious... well, I know I'll be just as grateful for that gift too. 🙂

👍

That last part really trips me up:
do you honestly think your own children will be grateful?
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·

I’ve been reflecting on why someone would actually want to *be* a father (I mean the essence of "being," not just the biological process) —specifically, why they would embrace all the responsibilities and the weight of that role within modern Western society.




...I’m posing this as an academic, almost philosophical inquiry: What is the fundamental purpose behind it?




.. and so far, I've found very few meaningful answers.
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
mistyfox812 said:Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

😁
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔

But honestly, sex can be exhausting (though that's incredibly rare),
and being a dad is fun—very, very, very, very rarely. 😁
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
rustymaker5 said:Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

😁
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄

That all happened during the first major wave of national rebuilding—it was a truly patriotic move. 😁
If they had shared your mindset, who would be here on Reddit teaching you everything you know? 😕
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
Nicole Castillo11 said:A hiker gave an interesting answer (even if it's biologically imprecise),
and I'm curious if anyone else shares similar views.

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

Are you suggesting we're just ignorant about—or indifferent to—contraception?
Is there really a direct correlation between how often people have sex and how many children they end up having? 😕


Nicole Castillo11 said:A hiker gave an interesting answer (even if it's biologically imprecise),
and I'm curious if anyone else shares similar views.

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
😁

Sometimes (rarely) fun—but always exhausting. 🙂
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·

Aside from a few honorable exceptions—just five of them, really—it seems like the men have completely abandoned this subforum,
or maybe they just find the topics here totally uninteresting or irrelevant. 😕 😕 😕
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
mistybison said:

I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔
I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔
I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔

This might seem trivial to some, but I really want to emphasize this distinction:

biological fatherhood—the ability to sire a hundred children—is one thing,
but being a true father through upbringing is much harder.

If you believe men "love their offspring," do you think that love was the initial motivation to become a father,
or did they fall in love with the child after the fact? (It brings us right back to the same dilemma.)
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
mistybison said:I am not a man, so... personal I don't have any personal experience to share at this time. 🙂 To be fair, my "experience" on this subject is based entirely on what others have told me.

I agree with those views.

Why would a man choose to have children? Perhaps it is an opportunity to pass on the wisdom and experiences he has gathered throughout his life. In many ways, raising a child is a form of artistic expression. Parenthood serves as one of the most profound, creative ways a person can leave a lasting legacy in this world—and I am not just talking about DNA. Of course, this only applies if he truly wants to and feels ready for the responsibility. 🙂 This applies to women as well.

😕

That’s why they end up giving them maybe five or six hours a week—some even more—simply because they don't have any time left.
We spend 40 (or even more) hours a week at the office.
I honestly wonder how many fathers actually dedicate 20 (or more) hours a week specifically to their kids.
And I mean literal, hands-on time, not just the usual "I'm doing this all for my children" excuse.



As James Redfield points out in his book:
A child needs
undivided attention from an adult at every single moment—that true 1:1 connection.

Maybe a mother might manage to give her child half of that time,
but I highly doubt you'll find a single father in a million who does.
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·

To could be summed up by that old saying:
A man dreams, but...






the woman makes the call. 😁






William Gonzalez3 said:

How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

Well, there you have it...

Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.
Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

I don't really align myself with that majority on this one.
Having children can't be my life's main focus, and certainly not my purpose

William Gonzalez3 said:

How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

Well, there you have it...

Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.

I'm a Dalmatian, and I've always looked down on soccer.
That's why I'm actually glad my son took after me in that regard.
I honestly think it's a huge win for America, and especially for Cleveland,
that we didn't host the World Cup. We would have wasted a fortune on something trivial.

William Gonzalez3 said:

How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

Well, there you have it...

Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.

I can't stand whining, and I hate lying even more: I either stay quiet or I tell the truth.
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
William Gonzalez3 said:

Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.
Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]
Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]

I just hope those little geniuses don't ask for too much (money, obviously) during the few years I have left. 🧐
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
Quentin Tarantino
mistybison said:Here are several reasons people have given me regarding why one should have children:

- Children ensure you leave a legacy behind.

- For those who haven't made a massive impact on society—like a groundbreaking scientist or a world-renowned artist—raising children is perhaps the most meaningful way to give back to the community.

- Some argue that living without offspring is inherently selfish; they believe parenthood refines a person, fostering growth and improving how one is perceived by both themselves and others.

- There is a view that one cannot reach full maturity without experiencing parenthood, as it represents one of life's most essential journeys.

- Once you have children, you will never truly be alone again.

- It provides a support system to care for you as you age.

- Having children offers a sense of purpose for when other life's distractions eventually lose their luster.

- We need children to ensure the continued survival of our nation.

I may have overlooked a few points, but these are the ones that come to mind. I have heard these perspectives from both men and women alike.

Feel free to choose whichever perspective resonates most with you. 🙂

I honestly don't buy into this whole idea of "natural instincts," and I certainly don't believe that men and women share the same motivations when it comes to parenthood.
I’d really like to ask everyone to please speak from their own lived experiences and personal perspectives, rather than relying on collective prejudices.

I’m not trying to claim this is an exclusive men's club topic, but I truly believe there's a fundamental gap here: a woman simply can't fully grasp the true motivations of a man who is stepping into fatherhood.
You might be tempted to take his word at face value, but I’ve learned from experience that what he says can be miles away from the actual truth.
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·
Joseph Sanchez90 said:Quote:


oceanview says:


I have to weigh in on this. I’ve noticed that when men talk about kids, they lead with the obligations. I remember a thread over on the R&D subforum: "Being a father is hard, but I wouldn't change a thing," and a friend of mine from the USA once told me about his daughter: "She is a handful, but I live for her." Regardless, they never miss a chance to mention how difficult it is to raise and care for a child, even when the sentence is meant to praise their children and their parenthood 😕 It seems strange to me... perhaps because I am a woman... 😁

👍

I honestly can't think of a single man who has given birth; for most people, that's a female experience.
At the end of the day, we're looking at a hard biological reality that shouldn't be brushed aside.
As a man, I truly can't wrap my head around what it feels like to carry and deliver a child.
That is an experience unique to women, and it creates a fundamental divide between us.

A man simply cannot have the same—or even a similar—
connection to a newborn as a woman does.

I don't think there's any room for shock or outrage here;
we really should just accept these differences as facts of life.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.



Thanks for understanding!


To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·

Haven't we already fulfilled this commandment—perhaps even a bit too zealously?
I'm looking at this from two specific angles: first, what is the actual biological drive to be a father?
We have to consider that sperm donation is an option now.

b) And why pursue fatherhood in a social or conventional sense?

I found the perspective shared by Jonathan Brooks8 to be quite thought-provoking,
even if it doesn't strictly align with biological facts, and I’m curious to see if anyone else shares that viewpoint.
To be or not to be... a father? in Philosophy ·

The Germans have a wise saying: "Becoming a Father isn't hard, but being a Father is a different story entirely."
Anyone can step up to become a father, but truly being a father...

I was actually inspired by a "women's topic" thread titled "What do you think about men?"
where most people just vent about bad fathers or offer nothing but pitying comments like, "poor things,"😁

But what I'm really curious about is why anyone would actually want to *be* a father (I mean the actual "being," not just the biological act)
—meaning they fully embrace all the responsibilities and the role required in modern Western society.

Just to clear the air: I love kids (especially other people's 😁),
but that's not really a reason to want to be a parent myself.
There are more than enough children in this world already, and I don't see a personal need to have my own.

To be fair, I should mention that I am already a father of three and might even become a grandfather soon. So, I'm not exactly struggling with these practical dilemmas myself,
but I am posing this as an academic, almost philosophical question: For what purpose?
Bohr & God (or Truth vs. Clarity)... in Philosophy ·


If we assume that Truth is something unchanging,
then only the Whole can truly be the Truth. A mere fragment can never claim that title.



From an epistemological standpoint, this creates a bit of a paradox—an apparent absurdity
where something perfectly clear and exact fails to qualify as being true.

To put it bluntly, a cold, hard fact isn't actually the Truth; it's more like a lie.



Within the constraints of language and logic, we can at best attempt to express
only half of the truth (and usually much less)—

while the other half is simply the negation of our initial statement.




Being "truthful," or simply being honest, isn't a difficult feat.
We often define honesty as just choosing not to lie.
But that doesn't mean you've managed to speak the full Truth.


In reality, attempting to speak the Truth usually ends up deceiving both ourselves and others.
Giving and receiving in Philosophy ·
Keith Lee2 said:A newborn’s cry is basically just the sound of total helplessness—they can't take anything, they can only receive.
If they don't get what they need, they die.
I feel like a whole lifetime is just an attempt to fix that helplessness (that deep-seated fear of death)
by grabbing onto power.
There isn't a single person who doesn't hit that wall of raw vulnerability at some point—when all their
strength, their status, or their attempts to force the world to bend to them just fail.
That’s when the crying turns into a scream, screams turn to aggression, aggression becomes rage, rage leads to madness,
and madness ends in destruction, yet they still haven't gotten what they wanted.
The thing is, what they want can't be seized—it can only be given.
So they turn to prayer and beg to receive; just like a baby crying out
for its mother, driving her to respond, now they project that maternal image onto Quincy
expecting Him to fulfill those prayers unconditionally, just like a mother would.
Basically, receiving is what keeps life going.
But the problem is, people expect to just keep taking forever.
Giving has to be hardwired into us beneath the surface (subconsciously, instinctively),
kind of like a mother's instinct, altruism, or love.
Once someone realizes that receiving and giving are actually what cures that
fear of death, maybe they'll stop trying to grab, snatch, or force things.

P.S. Anyone posting here thinking it's "intrusive" is just mistaken.
We're just like shoes in a storefront window—people look, try them on, and then leave
if they don't fit or if they start rubbing the wrong way.

I’d say (to be optimistic 😁 ) that there are some of us (though we're definitely a small minority)
who have grown beyond that infant stage.

At the end of the day, every human being needs attention from others—we are social creatures by nature
—but that exchange of attention has to be mutual, otherwise it becomes pathological.

It never bothers me when a shoe store puts out its latest collection,
but it really bothers me if they're displaying dead cats or live rats
or perhaps "perfect" shoes designed specifically for centipedes.😁
Giving and receiving in Philosophy ·
Quincy:


In reality, so many people have this compulsion to give away things that aren't even wanted:
literal trash, unsolicited advice, condescending lectures, and so on.


I simply bolded my first example of giving.
It’s fascinating how easily that gets overlooked. 🙂

"Developed" nations (meaning the wealthy ones that exploit the rest of the globe) very often—and quite ostentatiously—gift "benefits" to "developing" nations (the poor ones that have been exploited). These "gifts" include dirty industries, hazardous waste (a perfect modern example being when we were sent tons of expired medications during the war, where the cost of disposal far outweighed any actual value), advanced weaponry, including weapons of mass destruction (provided they maintain their monopoly on production *), and using "humanitarian aid" as a convenient cover for espionage and meddling in sovereign affairs
along with the cultural "perks" of the "free world," such as consumerism, greed, a predatory relationship with nature, and various other hallmarks of "junk culture."



I see the exact same dynamic in personal relationships, where we try to give or sell someone something they don't need, or something that actually causes them harm.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


* Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, North Korean nuclear weapons 😈
Giving and receiving in Philosophy ·
rustymaker5 said:Quote:


swiftcobra15 says:


I honestly can't get behind that logic, because if we're being real, the true opposite of giving is actually receiving... and let's face it, it’s perfectly normal for one to exist without the other, or at least for one side to be way more dominant than the other in any given situation...

Imposing is just a violent form of giving—it's forcing something onto someone who didn't ask for it in the first place.
And taking by force? That's just a violent way of receiving, or rather, grabbing something that isn't being offered voluntarily...🙂


In any act of giving or receiving, you inherently have one person playing the role of the giver and another acting as the receiver.
You can't truly give—though you certainly can force something on someone—if there isn't anyone there to receive it.
And you can't receive—unless you're stealing or grabbing it—if nobody is giving.

Giving and receiving are inseparable elements, whether we like it or not. 😁

Bohr & God (or Truth vs. Clarity)... in Philosophy ·
Harold James9 said:

And if something is truly unspeakable, you can't say it, write it, play it, paint it, or even whistle it. 🙂 [/INDENT]
I agree with that. However, the core issue here is unsolvable. Every individual is their own universe, which means their version of Truth is unique. Consequently, concepts like freedom, bondage, love, hate, or good and evil in lowlands become incompatible between people. It is impossible to label them as objectively true or false.

The only outcome is that the group I represent will clash with the group I embody evil for, and the stronger side will silence the weaker one for a while.😉

🙂 🙂 🙂
And if something is truly unspeakable, you can't say it, write it, play it, paint it, or even whistle it. 🙂 [/INDENT]
I agree with that. However, the core issue here is unsolvable. Every individual is their own universe, which means their version of Truth is unique. Consequently, concepts like freedom, bondage, love, hate, or good and evil in lowlands become incompatible between people. It is impossible to label them as objectively true or false.

The only outcome is that the group I represent will clash with the group I embody evil for, and the stronger side will silence the weaker one for a while.😉

🙂 🙂 🙂
I agree with that. However, the core issue here is unsolvable. Every individual is their own universe, which means their version of Truth is unique. Consequently, concepts like freedom, bondage, love, hate, or good and evil in lowlands become incompatible between people. It is impossible to label them as objectively true or false.

The only outcome is that the group I represent will clash with the group I embody evil for, and the stronger side will silence the weaker one for a while.😉

🙂 🙂 🙂

That’s just how society works: the winners get to write the history books, draft the laws, and shape the philosophy
(including ethics), effectively dictating the moral code and defining what constitutes "Truth".

Of course, all of that holds until the next major conflict, where the victors might be
own opposite side, wielding their own version of "Truth".

We actually covered this quite extensively a while back in our discussion on "good and evil in lowlands".