To be or not to be... a father?

The Germans have a wise saying: "Becoming a Father isn't hard, but being a Father is a different story entirely."
Anyone can step up to become a father, but truly being a father...

I was actually inspired by a "women's topic" thread titled "What do you think about men?"
where most people just vent about bad fathers or offer nothing but pitying comments like, "poor things,"😁

But what I'm really curious about is why anyone would actually want to *be* a father (I mean the actual "being," not just the biological act)
—meaning they fully embrace all the responsibilities and the role required in modern Western society.

Just to clear the air: I love kids (especially other people's 😁),
but that's not really a reason to want to be a parent myself.
There are more than enough children in this world already, and I don't see a personal need to have my own.

To be fair, I should mention that I am already a father of three and might even become a grandfather soon. So, I'm not exactly struggling with these practical dilemmas myself,
but I am posing this as an academic, almost philosophical question: For what purpose?

One of our core instincts?
The urge to reproduce?

People have this innate drive to leave some kind of mark on
this world, and having a child is just one way to go about it. You could also
count the desire to live out one's own unfulfilled ambitions through
their offspring. It’s likely also because children are often perceived as
extensions of the self—a vessel through which a father's sense of "I" continues
to exist even after his own existence has ceased.
A third possibility is that some view fatherhood and upbringing as
a massive test of their own psychological and physical capabilities, an act that
serves as an answer to the question: "Am I actually capable of preparing
another human being for a functional life?"

The reasons are endless.

I’m honestly not even sure if this thread is strictly meant for guys' opinions,

but let's be real, we see these kinds of discussions all over the internet and they always spiral into the exact same thing—people who don't want kids judging those who do by calling them shallow or saying they're just slaves to their biological urges

I guess I find that whole mindset pretty discriminatory and frankly just arrogant, because the people choosing not to have children obviously can't possibly know what it feels like to actually want them

It’s like everyone has suddenly become some kind of enlightened genius overnight, acting like wanting a family is somehow low-class or beneath them

👎

The global population is already getting pretty crowded, so maybe it’s actually the humane thing to do to stop... With all these apocalyptic warnings about environmental collapse, one has to wonder if bringing kids into this mess is even ethical. I mean, what's the point? There are plenty of children out there already, so why does everyone feel the need to have their own? Is having kids just the latest trend?...

If we assume that the true wealth of a single lifetime is measured by the depth of one's experiences, then missing out on the experience of "being a father" represents the deprivation of a very specific—and entirely irreplaceable—human milestone; a void that is often clumsily compensated for, or perhaps disproportionately substituted, by the altogether different reality of "not being a father"...

Jonathan Brooks8 said:If we assume that the true wealth of a single lifetime is measured by the depth of one's experiences, then missing out on the experience of "being a father" represents the deprivation of a very specific—and entirely irreplaceable—human milestone; a void that is often clumsily compensated for, or perhaps disproportionately substituted, by the altogether different reality of "not being a father"...

👍

Haven't we already fulfilled this commandment—perhaps even a bit too zealously?
I'm looking at this from two specific angles: first, what is the actual biological drive to be a father?
We have to consider that sperm donation is an option now.

b) And why pursue fatherhood in a social or conventional sense?

I found the perspective shared by Jonathan Brooks8 to be quite thought-provoking,
even if it doesn't strictly align with biological facts, and I’m curious to see if anyone else shares that viewpoint.

To be honest, becoming a father was never on my radar. It just wasn't something I ever thought about—not a single urge or desire, really.
My wife, though? She wanted this more than anything. Probably for all those reasons Elizabeth Ruiz65 mentioned earlier. I guess most women have this deep-seated drive—it’s almost purely biological.
Since I loved her, I decided to step up and help make that dream happen, despite my own total indifference toward the whole idea.

Then the baby arrived, and suddenly, I was a dad. Even the pregnancy itself was an interesting ride, but nothing compares to the moment they were actually born. It’s easily one of the most intense experiences of my life—that rush of energy hitting you, and then the tears just start flowing. Calling it "joy" feels like an understatement; it’s something much bigger than that.
Now, as the kid grows, I’m growing right along with them. There comes a point where I realize that if I actually had the time and resources to raise them properly, I’d want hundreds of kids. It’s just such a rich, incredible experience. For those of you who aren't parents, you might get the vibe if you grow a garden or have a pet—though, let's be real, having a child is a thousand times more intense and rewarding because of that constant connection.

Raymond Taylor7 said:I’m honestly not even sure if this thread is strictly meant for guys' opinions,

but let's be real, we see these kinds of discussions all over the internet and they always spiral into the exact same thing—people who don't want kids judging those who do by calling them shallow or saying they're just slaves to their biological urges

I guess I find that whole mindset pretty discriminatory and frankly just arrogant, because the people choosing not to have children obviously can't possibly know what it feels like to actually want them

It’s like everyone has suddenly become some kind of enlightened genius overnight, acting like wanting a family is somehow low-class or beneath them

👎

There are so many threads like this that they could all be condensed into one single question: to be a parent or not to be.

Those who judge others simply because they choose to be fathers—
I consider them completely unprepared for the realities of life, and frankly, selfishness is their defining trait.
If they hold these convictions, then by all means, they should go reject their own fathers—the very people who brought them into this world—
especially if that man was an irresponsible father who serves as their primary role model.

Calling parenthood "low" or "dirty" is nothing more than a hypocritical excuse—a convenient cover for pure selfishness and materialism. These are people incapable of sacrificing anything—anything at all—besides their own immediate comfort, just to give their lives some actual direction. And most often, their go-to justification is: "I can't afford to raise a child!"
But there is a certain poetic justice waiting for them: ending up alone in some lonely house,
where not even the neighbor's dog bothers to visit them during their lifetime or at the moment of their death—and that is precisely when the regret over not having children begins. And I'd bet 99% of them will feel it.
Regardless of what those children might have been like, the mere thought that they exist is the only comfort left.

Chris Peterson53 said:There are so many threads like this that they could all be condensed into one single question: to be a parent or not to be.

Those who judge others simply because they choose to be fathers—
I consider them completely unprepared for the realities of life, and frankly, selfishness is their defining trait.
If they hold these convictions, then by all means, they should go reject their own fathers—the very people who brought them into this world—
especially if that man was an irresponsible father who serves as their primary role model.

Calling parenthood "low" or "dirty" is nothing more than a hypocritical excuse—a convenient cover for pure selfishness and materialism. These are people incapable of sacrificing anything—anything at all—besides their own immediate comfort, just to give their lives some actual direction. And most often, their go-to justification is: "I can't afford to raise a child!"
But there is a certain poetic justice waiting for them: ending up alone in some lonely house,
where not even the neighbor's dog bothers to visit them during their lifetime or at the moment of their death—and that is precisely when the regret over not having children begins. And I'd bet 99% of them will feel it.
Regardless of what those children might have been like, the mere thought that they exist is the only comfort left.

That is such a misguided judgment... we aren't all cut from the same cloth, and we aren't all here to walk the exact same path.
You shouldn't judge parents who are doing their best to be responsible, nor should you judge those who choose not to have children. A person can be completely alone despite having kids (just try moving into an assisted living facility and see!), yet still lead a deeply fulfilled life in their old age. It’s about how much you tap into your own inner spiritual resources, how much you give to the world in different ways, and how much you're willing to receive in return.
Finding creativity and fulfillment is part of the quest for happiness, but everyone finds that spark differently... based on the specific experiences they need, not based on some "standard" lifestyle.
No amount of external comfort can truly soothe us if we don't find that peace within ourselves, because looking outward is just grasping at shadows when you haven't built anything inside.

Quote:

oceanview says: I’m curious about why someone would actually want to be a father (meaning "to be," not just "to become") essentially accepting all the responsibilities and the role within modern Western society.

Joseph Sanchez90 said:Quote:

oceanview says:

I have to weigh in on this. I’ve noticed that when men talk about kids, they lead with the obligations. I remember a thread over on the R&D subforum: "Being a father is hard, but I wouldn't change a thing," and a friend of mine from the USA once told me about his daughter: "She is a handful, but I live for her." Regardless, they never miss a chance to mention how difficult it is to raise and care for a child, even when the sentence is meant to praise their children and their parenthood 😕 It seems strange to me... perhaps because I am a woman... 😁

👍

I honestly can't think of a single man who has given birth; for most people, that's a female experience.
At the end of the day, we're looking at a hard biological reality that shouldn't be brushed aside.
As a man, I truly can't wrap my head around what it feels like to carry and deliver a child.
That is an experience unique to women, and it creates a fundamental divide between us.

A man simply cannot have the same—or even a similar—
connection to a newborn as a woman does.

I don't think there's any room for shock or outrage here;
we really should just accept these differences as facts of life.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

Thanks for understanding!

swiftcobra15 said:👍

I don't think there's any room for shock or outrage here;
we really should just accept these differences as facts of life.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

There’s no room for shock or outrage here...
we just need to accept these differences as facts.

That's exactly my point. A woman carries the baby, gives birth, nurses, and in today's society, still handles the lion's share of childcare. Yet men always make sure to mention how "hard" and "exhausting" being a father is. I don't get it. That's all I have to say.

Sorry for the tangent, but I can't give a proper answer to the main question since I'm not a man.

Raymond Taylor7 said:I’m honestly not even sure if this thread is strictly meant for guys' opinions,

but let's be real, we see these kinds of discussions all over the internet and they always spiral into the exact same thing—people who don't want kids judging those who do by calling them shallow or saying they're just slaves to their biological urges

I guess I find that whole mindset pretty discriminatory and frankly just arrogant, because the people choosing not to have children obviously can't possibly know what it feels like to actually want them

It’s like everyone has suddenly become some kind of enlightened genius overnight, acting like wanting a family is somehow low-class or beneath them

👎

The phrase "having kids" does feel low and dirty because it implies—even if we don't realize it—that a child is just parental property. It’s barely an upgrade from saying "making a baby."

Raising a child is a better way to put it, though even that doesn't seem to capture the full reality, given how often people struggle to actually succeed at it.

As for me, my child is due in about a month. My goal is simply to keep them healthy and safe until they reach the age where they can truly interact with the world. After that, I hope to guide them toward becoming a contributing member of our family, giving them the foundation they need to grow into an independent, responsible adult.

Hopefully, my spouse and I can pull this off together...😉

swiftcobra15 said:👍

I don't think there's any room for shock or outrage here;
we really should just accept these differences as facts of life.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

But does he even need to? This whole debate feels like a leftover from egalitarian ideology, built on the assumption that gender roles are purely "nurture-based," stemming from outdated theories that view the brain as a "blank slate."..

swiftcobra15 said:👍

I don't think there's any room for shock or outrage here;
we really should just accept these differences as facts of life.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

I started this thread (over on "philosophy"!) so I’d appreciate it if we could please stay on topic.
If you want to discuss bad parenting or similar issues, there are several threads dedicated to that on other subforums.

True, but accepting that requires a shift in perspective that many people aren't ready for. They tend to label such views as regressive, discriminatory, or just plain old stigmatizing...

Depending on the survival strategy of a specific species (including various sub-species and cultures), a father carries out a different role in raising his offspring—specifically in ensuring they survive until they can fend for themselves. It isn't just about biology, either; men employ all sorts of tactics to ensure their lineage continues, ranging from "hit and run" to "you're the only one for me for life."

Naturally, the "return on investment" varies accordingly... 😎

swiftcobra15 said:I was actually inspired by a "women's topic" thread titled "What do you think about men?"
where most people just vent about bad fathers or offer nothing but pitying comments like, "poor things,"😁

Just to clear the air: I love kids (especially other people's 😁),
but that's not really a reason to want to be a parent myself.
There are more than enough children in this world already, and I don't see a personal need to have my own.

😕 You always have a way of leaving me scratching my head.

Why on earth would you try to turn something as straightforward and primal as the drive to have offspring into some grand philosophical debate? You just love overcomplicating things, don't you? Always trying to reinvent the wheel when the answer is right in front of us... 🙄

Here are several reasons people have given me regarding why one should have children:

- Children ensure you leave a legacy behind.

- For those who haven't made a massive impact on society—like a groundbreaking scientist or a world-renowned artist—raising children is perhaps the most meaningful way to give back to the community.

- Some argue that living without offspring is inherently selfish; they believe parenthood refines a person, fostering growth and improving how one is perceived by both themselves and others.

- There is a view that one cannot reach full maturity without experiencing parenthood, as it represents one of life's most essential journeys.

- Once you have children, you will never truly be alone again.

- It provides a support system to care for you as you age.

- Having children offers a sense of purpose for when other life's distractions eventually lose their luster.

- We need children to ensure the continued survival of our nation.

I may have overlooked a few points, but these are the ones that come to mind. I have heard these perspectives from both men and women alike.

Feel free to choose whichever perspective resonates most with you. 🙂

Quentin Tarantino

mistybison said:Here are several reasons people have given me regarding why one should have children:

- Children ensure you leave a legacy behind.

- For those who haven't made a massive impact on society—like a groundbreaking scientist or a world-renowned artist—raising children is perhaps the most meaningful way to give back to the community.

- Some argue that living without offspring is inherently selfish; they believe parenthood refines a person, fostering growth and improving how one is perceived by both themselves and others.

- There is a view that one cannot reach full maturity without experiencing parenthood, as it represents one of life's most essential journeys.

- Once you have children, you will never truly be alone again.

- It provides a support system to care for you as you age.

- Having children offers a sense of purpose for when other life's distractions eventually lose their luster.

- We need children to ensure the continued survival of our nation.

I may have overlooked a few points, but these are the ones that come to mind. I have heard these perspectives from both men and women alike.

Feel free to choose whichever perspective resonates most with you. 🙂

I honestly don't buy into this whole idea of "natural instincts," and I certainly don't believe that men and women share the same motivations when it comes to parenthood.
I’d really like to ask everyone to please speak from their own lived experiences and personal perspectives, rather than relying on collective prejudices.

I’m not trying to claim this is an exclusive men's club topic, but I truly believe there's a fundamental gap here: a woman simply can't fully grasp the true motivations of a man who is stepping into fatherhood.
You might be tempted to take his word at face value, but I’ve learned from experience that what he says can be miles away from the actual truth.