Posts by Lisa Davis46

Alright, here's one for everyone... some good news to brighten the mood.



Look, we clearly need more variety. It’s been a week and I guess people are still obsessing over the music, nursing these weird, unresolved personal frustrations about whether all music needs to be "art" or if art is even music at all. What’s actually wild about this whole thing is that such a chill, quiet, low-key album managed to stir up this much chaos.

We decided to pull this little surprise, though we’ve actually been planning it for weeks now. We wanted to catch you guys off guard back around week 20, I guess, but honestly, it feels like a better time right now. We just want to see what sticks and where the best conversations happen. Maybe that'll happen sooner than we thought.

Enjoy your meal.

uh analogbear40, this album is killer, if you ask me.

I'll wait for one more, then if anyone thought...
...quickly.

🙂

Talk Talk - Laughing Stock (1991)



'spirit of eden' is my absolute favorite, so I honestly can't even find the words for it.
But maybe I could actually say something meaningful about 'laughing stock'.

Jason White17 said:Basically, this sounds to me like a needle spinning at the end of a vinyl record.

Exactly. And I’d also add that sound you get when you're crunching through fresh, untouched snow...

Henry Mitchell29 said:it cuts deep into your consciousness

That’s exactly it, and it all happens so quietly.

A few examples to prove it:

(just guitar)

Henry Mitchell29 said:it's not really depressing when you're vibrating on that frequency... I mean, it suits you.

It always suits me. 😁

Henry Mitchell29 said:Drake's depression is just a heavy luxury.

Sorry, I was thinking about this differently.
It doesn't feel depressive to me either...
😉

Henry Mitchell29 said:edit: I could see myself listening to Drake out in the mountains, or maybe some rural farmhouse... he just had that vibe... a simple, depressed kid from the sticks, surrounded by fields, English autumns, and winters...
The colors of fall mixed with Drake's depression. That’s a heavy luxury right there.

I don't know, I wouldn't call it a luxury.

It's perfect for this time of year... and there are these subtle nuances and shifts,
the first album is exactly what you're talking about, but the second one feels urban, like it's meant for the city streets.

The third one is totally different—just out of this world. I'll have to start a whole new thread for that.

Henry Mitchell29 said:I used to be this sophisticated young guy... but now I’m basically a degenerate. Now I just sit around listening to Philip Glass and all those other weirdos.

Honestly, I guess both should just be whatever you need them to be. It really comes down to the situation.

Henry Mitchell29 said:Nick Drake - Cello Song

I guess you could call this one of his faster, harder tracks. Maybe.

If you haven't checked out this alternative version of "Three Hours," you're seriously missing out.
This one is easily one of his best—especially this version.

There’s just something about African drums that hits differently. It gives off this whole other kind of energy—it's honestly a miracle.

Henry Mitchell29 said:Nick Drake - Hazey Jane II

Nice. 😍😍

But honestly, I think the first one is better:

Hazey Jane I

you were dancing right on the edge there, though it was pretty borderline, maybe somewhere during your PMS phase.
😉

Dennis Martin6 wasn't just on the edge; he would've been handed a red card if I hadn't stepped in immediately.
(the debate is good, but we're going to have to steer this last bit toward a new topic.)

Interesting. Both sides have a point, but seriously, everyone needs to chill out.
(Dennis Martin6, I'm looking at you.)

What happens when there’s clear intention—when an artist (in this case, the vocalist) is fully convinced they’ve got the soul and the talent (or at least a basic sense of pitch 😁), but objectively speaking, they just don't? I guess the same question applies to painting or movies.
As for architecture, let's not even go there. That could actually be life-threatening.

I think we can all agree on Meryl Streep's role here:

And then there's the real Florence:

So, what are we even looking at?
Is this actually music?
😁

Or... is this just a whole new genre?

Guys, sorry to jump in, but things are getting good and I hate to see a heated debate die down!

I just wanted to ask Dennis Martin6 to check his inbox because I sent him a heads-up there.
And thanks to Gerald Jackson48 for being so chill and patient if he caught that post that got censored.
🙂

Quote : Weekend Warrior

Gerald Jackson48 said:So, we could probably argue that a painting is atonal in both the broad sense and a strict logical one. It wouldn't exactly be a lie, I guess. After all, a painting doesn't actually contain any tones, nor does it have a tonal center. 😁

But at the end of the day, it’s still just a painting. I mean, look at Malevich back in 1918. Even then, critics were already tearing into "white on white" for basically the same reasons. Nah..

Gerald Jackson48 said:Malevich’s white on white painting probably caused a massive uproar when it first dropped. But honestly, what is the whole point of "trying to provoke an audience" through art if the artist can't—or won't—actually handle the fallout? I guess it just seems a bit hypocritical.

No, it's definitely not some scandal-free classical music!

There were earlier examples that might actually be better—like that jazz masterpiece that predates jazz itself. The last one, I guess. The 32nd Sonata. Maybe? I don't know. It’s hard to pin down. 😍 I don't know. Maybe? Or maybe not. I guess we'll see. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t stop thinking about 'Grosse Fuge.' It’s heavy. Intense. Honestly, it hits differently every time I sit down with it. I guess some people find it overwhelming, but there's something about that raw complexity that just sticks. It's a lot to process. 🙏Honestly, this kind of thing just makes me think of 1916 and one of those early true minimalists—even if he did eventually drift back toward those classic Impressionist circles. They won't let us. Join them—Erik Satie was just wonderful. It wasn't just that he stood his ground after the premiere of his avant-garde ballet, *Parade*; he actually went as far as sending a cheeky postcard to one critic:
😁



It was basically a one-act play, maybe ran about 15 minutes. Cocteau handled the script and the whole plot, while Picasso took care of the visuals. I guess you could call it cubist. Or maybe just messy. I don't know. It feels like that sort of thing where everything gets broken down and put back together in a way that doesn't quite make sense at first glance. Maybe it does, though. Who am I to say? The set design and costumes were one thing, but the actual music was where things got messy. It was problematic because, back then, they actually had the nerve to experiment with weird new sounds and non-classical instruments within a traditional ballet structure.

The score was packed with all these random noise-makers—think typewriters, foghorns, a bunch of milk bottles, even a pistol. Cocteau threw them all in there, which I guess kind of annoyed Satie.

Why did an orchestra throw oranges at a performer? Why did Cocteau get beaten up after a show? I mean, Erik Satie ended up in court and even faced jail time, while whatever happened with Picasso... probably nothing. Honestly, painters seem to walk away much cleaner from these kinds of scandals than musicians do. I guess people just find it way easier to judge and tear down music and the composers behind it.

I have to say, I’m actually pretty curious to see how your experiment turns out. 😁

Chris Myers said:It’s simple— not every sound counts as music! 🧐
(...)
Günter is basically just collecting noise. A musician? Sorry, but no, not even close!

I mean, I guess Kanye is just a noise collector too...
but I still wouldn't say what he does isn't music.
😁

Exactly, Dennis Martin6. That’s what I was trying to get at, though I probably phrased it pretty clumsily.

brightwolf48 said:So how can you claim I’m unable to accept diversity when you keep implying that in your later posts?

Sorry about the mood swings. I remember back when my ex was going through it—she had thyroid issues on top of everything else—so I guess I know how rough things can feel for women sometimes. I didn't mean to sound sexist.

Please...
can we just leave all the talk about cycles and bodily fluids out of this thread?
😁

If you spend five different posts insisting that something is "garbage" and isn't music,
and you clearly don't feel it or you have some weird resistance to it, then how are you actually embracing diversity?

Don't stress about it anymore. Everything's been said. We'll just agree to disagree.

brightwolf48 said:Honestly, it really gets under my skin when those pretentious snobs start lecturing everyone from some high horse. They’ll pivot the conversation to something completely different and then never even touch the actual topic again. Meanwhile, they love to lecture anyone who actually has the guts to speak their mind—even if they're being impulsive or, I guess, totally wrong. It's just annoying. I mean, I’d honestly love it if someone would just open my eyes if I'm being blind to something.

brightwolf48, I’m sorry if I offended you—that really wasn't my intention. Please just ignore the bold text; I barely even use my authority over there anymore. I haven't actually written a review for a single album this week because I've been totally preoccupied with a different artist lately. Plus, I went out yesterday and impulsively bought five new vinyl records, two of which were total blind buys, so I'm a bit all over the place. But I'll get to it. 🙂

Look, since I clearly haven't said anything smart and everything I say is somehow backwards to you, let me try one more thing. I'm just trying to figure out why Brian Eno actually hit so hard for me during those first two listens...

brightwolf48 said:What’s your take on the album? Do you meditate with him, or do you get those orgasmic tremors or whatever right before your period hits like I do?
(...)
Given how much everyone was raving about the vote, I honestly expected at least a quick take on it.

Aside from my heart rate slowing down, I’m just not feeling any physical reaction to this album or this kind of music—at least not this time around. None of that stuff is happening. And honestly, I have no idea how you could possibly claim to know a third thing about it, but fine, I guess you can try to assume... though assumptions can be pretty dangerous, much like prejudices.

If you don't like something, then you just don't like it. That's that. Everyone finds exactly what they’re looking for. Just because someone else hears something beautiful where you don't, maybe it just means they perceive things differently. I don't get why that's so incredibly hard for you to accept. I've had plenty of times where someone recommends something to me that I am absolutely certain I'll love—especially when we have such similar tastes and a basically identical sensibility—and yet, it still doesn't click. It makes me feel a little bit wrong, I guess. But then, sometimes it finally hits me years later because I needed something else to bridge the gap. Or it never clicks at all, which is also fine. But seriously, what do you actually gain by trying to diminish someone else's taste like this? What kind of satisfaction are you getting from that?

There’s this solid thread connecting classical, minimal, and ambient music—including those drone and noise corners—that I just tend to gravitate toward. I’ve been deep into classical for way longer, though, in a much broader sense. Honestly, I rarely find that kind of clarity, peace, or balance in any other genre. There’s a certain softness to this album too, a real tenderness in the dynamics, even if everything feels a bit diffused and muted. Even with the minimal tools and the atonality, you can still feel it. A hand gesture.It’s kind of like that image I mentioned:

Everyone knows Malevich intended for those squares to look like they’re just hovering there. Using white really drives that home, too—it's all about that sense of peace, infinity, and just being timeless. The thing is, the painting doesn't belong to any specific era or location. It just exists. What’s actually wild, though, is that the piece isn't totally soulless, which seems weird since he only used white paint. If you look closely, you can see these subtle shifts in the shades of white. The way the paint was applied varies across the canvas, too. I guess when you sit with it and just quiet down, it’s hard not to feel this sudden sense of calm or even a bit of healing.

Honestly, I really vibed with this the first time I heard it that night. On second listen, I found even more beautiful moments—like how it just totally quiets everything down inside you... which is something I need pretty often. Patrick Patel4 already mentioned it, but this sound is actually successful at calming you down, so maybe it’s a solid choice before hitting the sack. There aren't any traditional instruments here, and even though the music is digitally constructed, it doesn't feel cold, even if it manipulates silence way more than actual sound. I don't know how he pulled it off, but somehow he did.

It feels somewhat reminiscent of the more well-known Morton Feldman, whose work definitely influenced Brian Eno, especially this (just a snippet):

And one more thing: I still don't see any "black letters" here. Everything you're saying about yourself and some kind of limitation? I didn't get that impression at all. I wouldn't have said anything like that to you myself. However, I just can't accept this tone of communication, which is what I said at the start. That attitude doesn't necessarily have to be aimed at me, it's just an issue in general. So, I'm going to step away from this topic and move on to Sweet Trip, but feel free to keep going if you think that's more productive. 🙂

bluecyclist64 said:Maybe he’s just fed up with those snobs who try to turn every pile of trash into high art?
Or, in this specific instance, hearing music where there isn't any at all? 🍿

Yeah, I guess that’s one way to look at it. Great. But here’s the interesting part: honestly, almost nothing in music really gets under my skin or annoys me, especially when it’s just total nothingness. You just stay indifferent, right?

But if you feel this desperate need to react, then clearly something is getting to you. Way more than you probably want to admit, I guess... 😉

I hadn't heard of Günther before, so this was my first time listening, but honestly, it reminded me more of those sonic spaces Ryoji Ikeda or Alva Noto explore than anything related to John Cage.

"Meditation" is probably the right word for it. I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but I've read in a few places that the title actually came from the author's haiku poetry, just like this:

The title of the album comes from one of his haiku: "elle fonderait dans ma main / un peu de neige salie" (roughly "it would melt in my hand / a bit of soiled snow").
(...)
He became interested in Japanese aesthetics and haiku and this interest is reflected in The Economy of his compositional materials and The Use of silence in his work.

And now I see that this exists too...

Gerald Jackson48 said:I guess Malevich's white on white painting probably caused quite a stir back in its day, too. But what's really the point of "wanting to provoke an audience response with a work of art" if the artist then refuses to deal with—or just doesn't know how to handle—those reactions?
(...)
I wouldn't really compare Neige Salie to white on white, though, since there were plenty of experiments with sound ("anti-music") way before 1993.

I wasn't trying to make a comparison; I was just trying to steer the conversation toward minimalism and experimental stuff instead of what we started with. 🙂 That painting definitely has its history and was pretty controversial as soon as it hit the galleries, especially with critics, so nothing surprising there... though it's nowhere near the impact of the 'black square,' which actually triggered intense emotions and very positive personal responses from people, which was the whole goal:

"According to minimalists, a work of art represents nothing. It’s only what you see. The other thing doesn’t exist. They have an objective quietness."

I was more drawn to the idea of infinite space, the repetition, and how soothing the image is. Even that dirty white, with its soft, subtle tones.

brightwolf48 said:Music without rhythm, melody, or harmony isn't music, and there is absolutely nothing here; therefore, there's no composition either. And no, turning it up or down doesn't help. Garbage is garbage, and anyone claiming they see music and art in this is just a snob trying to feel special.

I actually loved how intense your negative reaction was. 🙂 It didn't surprise me, but the choice of words did.

brightwolf48 said:I don't think John Cage should be anyone's role model. I mean, he already pushed things to the absolute limit. He went all the way, and honestly, there isn't much left to do in that direction that would actually make sense or feel significant.
(...)
That first Malevich painting is the absolute peak of subversion and pure concept. You honestly can't top it. It’s the same deal with those Haneke films you linked. Any other later works that try to lean on those same subversive themes and ideas just... I don't know, they just irritate me. The thing is, I can't really be more subversive or provocative than my own idols. Or maybe that's just how it works. I guess I'm just stating my piece here. What’s the basis for that? I mean, what are you actually basing this on?

I'm glad you decided to head in this direction, but I can't say I agree with that last point. I mean, there’s always room to grow... and maybe even to get better! 🙂
Look, I know this isn't really the topic at hand, but it’s easier for me to explain using houses and architecture. With buildings, purpose is the priority—you actually have to be able to live in the space. Long before the Bauhaus movement ever existed, a much more radical minimalism had already been achieved halfway across the world in the East. That style is still evolving there in ways most people here just don't get. As for this other, experimental direction—the examples I mentioned aren't even recent anymore—that kind of growth is driven by technology. But what I find interesting is that for them, technology doesn't dictate or limit the outcome. The final product isn't some forced "style" or a way to show off. It's something way more complex, and in the end, it just results in pure simplicity.

That’s just incredibly hard to pull off... I guess. Maybe.

Just another half-baked example. It’s got Kanye West vibes when it comes to style and—I guess—beauty. Or at least that's what someone wrote somewhere, claiming they discovered two magic words. Wabi-sabi.So, he claims they became part of his entire life philosophy and completely overhauled how he lives, right? And that’s how we ended up with this "stunning" house. Its value is mostly aesthetic, I guess, so there’s really no point in even bringing up that multi-million dollar price tag. Honestly, the house is the complete opposite of what those two words actually mean. Even if the designer managed to hit their goals of beauty and harmony, it’s still way too far from being pure, humble, or possessing that kind of intrinsic, elegant simplicity.

Don't come for me just yet... here's another one. This is it.. 😁

I guess Japan just gets it. They have this natural grasp of deeper moral and aesthetic principles that others struggle with. But then you look at the Belgian approach, and it's a completely different story. I don't know what to tell you. It’s just how things are. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's pretty obvious. I guess we should just deal with it. I guess Kanye and his crew just skim the surface, picking up only the shallowest layers. They end up totally misreading the whole thing, turning it into nothing more than some trendy fashion statement or a way to signal prestige and luxury. It’s like a design house trying too hard to sell an image—prioritizing the packaging over the actual substance. They're basically just pretending to be something they aren't.

And that’s just not how it works with this kind of music. I guess.