542 posts shown.
Quincy:
I can't even deal with this right now. Seriously. Every time I turn around, there’s some new nonsense going on that makes me want to put my head through a wall. It's just constant. Just one thing after another, and honestly? I'm exhausted. Everyone's acting like this is normal, but it's absolutely ridiculous. I've had enough. I can't even begin to deal with this right now. Seriously. It’s like people just don't listen. They hear what they want to hear and then act like they've discovered fire. I was sitting there, just trying to get through my morning coffee, and I see this absolute nonsense being peddled as fact. It makes my blood boil! You can't just make things up because it sounds good in your head. It doesn't work that way! Honestly, I'm exhausted just thinking about how much nonsense we have to wade through every single day. Just... ugh. Give me a break.
Honestly, I don’t get it. It’s like some women just lack that basic instinct for everything. You see them struggling to pick out an outfit, staring at a closet full of clothes like they’ve never seen color before. And don't even get me started on their sense of style—the makeup, the way they try to coordinate colors... it's a total mess most of the time. It’s not just fashion, either. It’s the cooking, too. Sometimes you watch someone in the kitchen and you just think, "How is this happening?" It’s like they have zero common sense when it comes to practical skills. And the idealism? Ugh. They’ll be floating around in these ridiculous, unrealistic fantasies, completely disconnected from how the real world actually works. It's exhausting to watch. |
Oh yeah, totally forgot to mention—it was actually hilarious.👍 🤣
Bloodthirsty said:For now, I’m only gonna address the second half of your question.
Up until day 40, there isn't any soul in a fetus.
Doesn't matter if it's male or female.
Then, a male soul arrives.
The bodies that those male souls don't want to inhabit just sit there empty, developing without any real direction. It's totally random. Just a chaotic mess of nothingness.
Then, after 80 days of all that emptiness, a female soul comes along and takes over the body.
And yeah, souls have a gender.
How else are you gonna explain women trapped in men's bodies?
Look, please try discussing this using Aristotle's theory on the indivisibility of the soul and the body.👍
And how can you claim there's no soul in a fetus when, if nothing else, it is literally SURROUNDED by one? Use your head for once. 😉
Also, are you seriously suggesting that "male souls" are just sperm cells?? 😕
William Gonzalez3 said:basically, the male soul is the one that inhabits the body first.
While the female soul gets hung up on picking out clothes, color coordination, makeup skills, cooking abilities, how much idealism she has, and all that stuff.
Look, I hate being a broken record here, but here we go:
Walter Myers4 said:let's break this down a bit:
Soul is defined by Aristotle as the perfect expression or realization of a natural body. From this definition it follows that there is a close connection between psychological states, and physiological processes. Body and soul are unified in the same way that wax and an impression stamped on it are unified. Philosophers before Aristotle discussed The Soul abstractly without Any regard to The bodily environment ; this, Aristotle believes, was a mistake. At the same time, Aristotle regards The Soul or mind not as The product of The physiological conditions of The body, but as the truth of the body -- the substance in which only the bodily conditions gain their real meaning.
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/aristotl.htm
And how exactly do you think a male soul can "occupy" a female body—where new life is literally being formed—faster than the female soul that's already living in it?🙂 It’s a total contradiction in terms! I mean, the soul doesn't have a gender, right? Or does it? 😉
William Gonzalez3 said:I'm not really paying much attention to the main topic here.
So, you actually agree that we started out with a female soul?😉
Do you have anything else to say that’s actually on-topic? 😉
William Gonzalez3 said:Aristotle (384-322 BC) wrote in his History of Animals that the male embryo develops a human soul at about 40 days and a female embryo develops its soul at about 80 to 90 days. Aristotle's thinking derived from his three-stage theory of life: vegetable, animal, rational. The vegetable stage was reached at conception, the animal stage at "animation," and the rational stage soon after live birth. This theory, along with the 40/80 day view came to be accepted by early Christian theologians. (See Exodus 21:22-25)
Let’s actually dig into this for a second:
Soul is defined by Aristotle as the perfect expression or realization of a natural body. From this definition it follows that there is a close connection between psychological states, and physiological processes. Body and soul are unified in the same way that wax and an impression stamped on it are unified. Metaphysicians before Aristotle discussed The Soul abstractly without Any regard to The bodily environment ; this Aristotle regards The Soul or mind not as The product of The physiological conditions of The body, but as the truth of the body -- the substance in which only the bodily conditions gain their real meaning.
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/aristotl.htm
William Gonzalez3 said:philosophy isn't a science.
So why on earth should philosophers be expected to act like scientists?
It’s pretty damn hard to take the stuff philosophy actually deals with—like, say, exploring the soul—and force it through some rigid scientific method where you try to measure it or categorize it or whatever. It just doesn't work.
Aristotle tried that approach, and look how spectacularly he failed.
And honestly, how much do we even actually know about what Aristotle wrote? For all we know, we're looking at some massive pile of errors left behind by some random scribe centuries later. Or maybe it's just a complete, intentional misinterpretation of the original idea that got passed down through history. Who knows? 😉
Also, for the record, philosophy isn't even about "exploring the soul." 😉
William Gonzalez3 said:we have no clue what kind of soul it has.
Look, we can talk about the biological traits of a fetus at certain weeks, sure, but as for its soul? We don't know, and frankly, we can't know.
Same goes for when it actually gets one.
Even Aristotle claims that men are the first to receive theirs.
I mean, if some woman living in a matriarchy had written that, she’d probably claim women get theirs first.
Since I'm a guy living in a patriarchy, I'm siding with Aristotle here. 😁
And anyone who tries to argue with us? Well, they're gonna have a very bad day.
Let's try to be a little scientific here, 👍 even when we're totally wrong. 😉
William Gonzalez3 said:Regarding the fetus, I’ll admit it’s female.
But I never said it wasn't biologically sexed.
The point is, the soul hasn't settled yet. Meaning, if it's a boy, there's no soul until day 40, and if it's a girl, you have to wait until day 80.
Basically, a male fetus gets its soul after 40 days.
A female one doesn't. The soul enters later.
(Probably because she's a woman and clearly took longer to get ready)
Actually, it's the opposite. Based on what _spike said about breasts:
_spike said:Up until the fourth or sixth week of pregnancy, the body develops as female—which is why men even have nipples. After that, the Y-linked genes finally kick in, triggering a massive wave of genetic activity that halts the female development path and pushes everything toward becoming male.
So every fetus has a female soul by day 40, and a male one maybe by day 80?😉 Is that right, _spike?
William Gonzalez3 said:maybe there isn't even a fetus.
but there's a soul.
and it enters that undefined fetus 😉 😉
into what later turns out to be a male fetus after 40 days, and a female one after 80.
Go ahead, try to prove me wrong.
We already settled this. You aren't even paying attention to the thread.😉
Walter Myers4 said:Look: http://www.mayoclinic.org/topics...a/week14.asp
I'm quoting here: "Along with the 15th week of pregnancy, this marks the end of the first trimester.... In male fetuses, the prostate develops, while in female fetuses, the ovaries descend from the abdomen into the small pelvis."
So, I'd say that stuff about the 80th day actually meant that's when the sexes start to differentiate.
while the 40-day thing meant the general formation of life begins:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/topics...a/week05.asp
"By the end of last week and during this one, a simple ball, the blastocyst, transforms into an embryo within which three different types of tissue begin to differentiate, which will become three distinct types of tissue. From the inner layer (endoderm), the digestive system, pancreas, liver, and lungs will form, and from the outer layer (ectoderm), the nervous system, skin, hair, tooth enamel, and eye lens. The middle layer (mesoderm) will differentiate into the skeleton, muscles, kidneys, heart, and blood vessels. Cells from each tissue move until they reach their target destination."
Exactly. It’s because the water they use to brew beer is absolutely loaded with female hormones. You want to know why? You already know. Ever since birth control pills became a thing about forty years ago, our groundwater has been getting totally trashed by estrogen from contraceptive runoff and sewage. It all leeches right back into the aquifers. That’s the real reason we're seeing this massive wave of "feminized" men and that ridiculous metrosexual trend taking over the world.
Sloan said:I wouldn't even bother nitpicking those Aristotelian gems just to claim they're sexist or whatever. If we're really going to split hairs and hunt for 😁, even Russell—who passed in the 70s and was a total liberal—had his fair share of questionable takes on this stuff ☕
It’s just wild to me when these "great minds" trip over the most basic things. Not even the controversial stuff, but just when they can't actually explain their own damn logic within their own framework.
Exactly. I'm totally convinced that the whole "discrimination" angle was just slapped onto the interpretation of the philosopher's original ideas way down the line.
Bloodthirsty said:Aristotle (384-322 BC) wrote in his History of Animals that the male embryo develops a human soul at about 40 days and a female embryo develops its soul at about 80 to 90 days. Aristotle's thinking derived from his three-stage theory of life: vegetable, animal, rational. The vegetable stage was reached at conception, the animal stage at "animation," and the rational stage soon after live birth. This theory, along with the 40/80 day view came to be accepted by early Christian thinkers. (See Exodus 21:22-25)
Yeah, there you have it. Exactly. 👍
Tyler Grant76 said:Around the exact same time and place, this guy managed to nail the Earth's circumference with crazy accuracy. And sure, just before that, some other experimental philosopher had already figured out the round earth thing.
Eventually, pure guesswork started trumping actual insight, so treating Aristotle's conclusions about things he clearly didn't understand as being just as valid as saying the Earth is a flat pancake was a total joke.
That kind of philosophical drift worked perfectly for backing up religious dogmas, so it’s no shocker that through that Aquinas guy, Aristotelian thought got twisted and woven right into Christian doctrine.
Tyler Grant76, you're totally forgetting that back in Aristotle's day, science was actually pretty advanced—almost like a Renaissance vibe—and way more free than the suffocating mess of the Dark Ages. Honestly, Aristotle probably had moments between debating his students where he could watch a fetus develop, and based on those (likely flawed) samples and zero high-tech gear, he made some sweeping guesses. I mean, my take? Those ideas about male and female souls (which, like you pointed out, are such a mess) were probably interpreted much later during the Middle Ages. In their original form, they likely had a scientific feel rooted in biological observation, only picking up those heavy religious connotations later on when they were weaponized by the ruling ideology to suit their own agenda.
look at this:
quoting this: "Along with the 15th week of pregnancy, this marks the end of the first trimester... In male fetuses, the prostate develops, while in female fetuses, the ovaries descend from the abdomen into the small pelvis."
So, basically, I’d say that the whole deal with the 80th day actually meant that’s when the sexes start to differentiate.
And that part about the 40th day? That was just about life itself starting up in general:
"By the end of last week and during this one, a simple little ball—the blastocyst—turns into an embryo where three distinct layers begin to form, which will eventually become three different types of tissue. From the inner layer (endoderm), you get the digestive system, pancreas, liver, and lungs; from the outer layer (ectoderm), you get the nervous system, skin, hair, tooth enamel, and eye lens. The middle layer (mesoderm) differentiates into the skeleton, muscles, kidneys, heart, and blood vessels. Cells from each tissue type migrate constantly until they hit their target destination."
madwoman said:I read somewhere that Aristotle claimed the soul enters a male fetus at 40 days, but for females, it doesn't happen until day 80. Can someone explain this to me? I'm curious about how he actually calculated those numbers and why he was so damn sure about it.
And another thing... It looks like I might have mixed him up with Plato (or so my brother claims), but I somehow remembered that he was against slavery even though he was once a slave himself. My brother insists he was actually a slave owner, and that Plato was the one who was declared a slave because of *something* (some fight with a king, maybe?) and then escaped a few years later...
Help me get my head straight here, everything is getting totally jumbled up in my brain😵 😳
I honestly think there’s some actual science behind that, more from a biology standpoint than a philosophy one.
In this thread, I’d love to call on an expert in the field—maybe Spike—to break down exactly which week of pregnancy the embryo starts developing sex characteristics. If I remember correctly, we’re all basically "girls" for a while until the guys finally start growing their equipment. But hey, let the pros speak 👍
ps. Not to mention we all have little tails for the first few weeks 😱 😱
I mean, it’s just fish oil anyway...
straight from shark liver and whale testicles👍 🙂 Just kidding.
Look, it’s totally possible. There is a massive, direct link between PCOS, being overweight, and diabetes...