restlesssurfer97, man, you really gotta sit back and think about this for a second—like, seriously consider why things didn't just absolutely explode over in Sweden, you know? Doesn't that tell you something, even just a little bit, about how much of an actual necessity or how effective those quarantine measures really were in the grand scheme of things?
Anthony Wright30 said:That seems somewhat unlikely, though I suppose one should consider that California isn't quite like the rest of the country, just as Seattle and Florida have historically functioned as somewhat isolated hubs. There was a distinct culture there—historic cities, sailors, and active trade; I mean, Key West arguably holds more weight on a global scale than much of the rest of the US.
Then there is the matter of tourism, which I imagine has opened many doors, particularly for the younger generations, through interaction with foreigners and the gradual absorption of Western lifestyle, fashion, and social norms. Last year, around November, I remember walking through the city with my girlfriend on a Saturday evening; we decided we wanted to try a slightly nicer restaurant, but we couldn't find a single decent spot because everything was fully booked. People generally seem well-presented, orderly, educated, and mostly quite prosperous.
If you were to visit ninety percent of places around the world, I suspect you wouldn't find two people who speak fluent English, let alone the standard of hygiene and personal presentation found here.
We are certainly a diverse bunch, but if you think we are stuck in the past or holding America back, I suppose you are mistaken.☕
How did you even manage to aim that last sentence at me?
I honestly think I was being extremely clear about what I was saying.
Look, this whole thing is a marathon, not a sprint, and if you ran a poll on this even a decade ago, the numbers would look completely different, no question about it. People are finally waking up to what's happening, a critical mass is starting to form, and honestly, change is going to happen simply because the pressure is becoming too much to ignore. Nothing is ever going to be fixed overnight, we all know that, and we shouldn't be sitting here expecting some kind of miracle to solve everything by tomorrow morning.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Ribić and those other self-important pharaohs have been acting way too hysterical over the last year or so? It’s honestly not just me thinking this.
Quick poll for everyone here: it feels like people are overwhelmingly calling for massive cuts to the federal bureaucracy, taxes, and all those bloated local government offices and counties.
urbanhawk17 said:Did I read this right? So an employer just transfers $833 and there's zero tax taken out, and that's the end of it?
The government isn't offering any kind of incentive to actually pay this in?
The government isn't giving anything back. Basically, instead of just raising the standard deduction or lowering payroll taxes, those geniuses over at the Treasury Department decided the best way to let an employer reward an employee is through these weird loopholes, because in their minds, the big fish are few and the sheep are many.
In reality, it’s just another massive load of nonsense that adds more layers to an already ridiculously complicated tax code, and honestly, you can tell these bureaucrats will never get past that old-school, controlling mindset.
And don't even get me started on the whole new level of corruption this is going to invite, not to mention they'll probably have to hire a bunch of new government cronies just to manage all the extra paperwork.
Since we haven't actually crossed paths in person lately, nothing much has moved forward, which makes me wonder how we could have ever argued that we were doing too much in the first place. 🤷
So, I find myself circling back to my starting point. When it comes to things I don't fully grasp, I tend to lean toward the consensus of experts—especially when that view is as globally widespread and relatively unified as this one is. I’m not talking about politicians, but rather scientists. Though, to be fair, there are certain politicians out there whom I trust to make decisions in their people's best interests, leaders with a proven track record of good governance, so I do place some level of confidence in their judgment (which, let's be honest, is likely far more nuanced than anything being debated here on Reddit).
The alternative logic is essentially the mindset of an anti-vaxxer or a flat-earther; because if you feel compelled to believe in some massive, overarching conspiracy involving such a vast number of scientists (and indeed, politicians), what else is left for you to hold onto?
Basically, the argument being made here is that countries which didn't implement quarantines or lockdowns weren't being led by experts, but were instead being run by total charlatans. I'm borrowing Kesić's pen for this one, so let me just lay it out.
What’s going down over in Sweden, where they haven't even seen a massive explosion of infections, is basically a giant slap in the face to anyone who was out there screaming for the strictest lockdowns.
There’s just no way Stozer can hold things together until the election, because if they leave him in charge that long, he’s honestly going to do more damage than good, especially since those few massive blunders lately have pretty much blown his reputation out of the water and that’s that. If they called an election right now, yeah, they’d probably scrape by with a win thanks to Stozer carrying them, but there is absolutely no theory in the world where Capak&team manages to keep their positive numbers up for another two months.
I'm only clicking on this Linkam because of the comment section at the bottom, honestly, since everyone has already started tearing yesterday's heroes to shreds.
Personally, what gets to me the most is just how inconsistent all these measures have been. On one hand, you've got this total lockdown being forced on everyone, but then on the other, we’re constantly reading about people who were basically begging just to get tested. And there's a whole mountain of other stuff we've been chewing over in these discussions for almost two months now, though feel free to correct me, Dabi, if I've got the timeline off by a day or two.
If you look at the data, it's not even an exaggeration to say there were plenty of countries out there that managed to hold things down without ever resorting to a quarantine. Instead of actually looking at what they were doing and following their lead, we basically skipped right over their preventative steps and jumped straight into a full-blown quarantine.
It's starting to look more and more likely that a total lockdown wasn't actually necessary on a global scale, and obviously, it's easy to play general after the battle is over, but man, if we had just followed the playbook of those other countries—the ones that didn't need lockdowns—and then only turned to quarantine as a last resort when nothing else worked, we wouldn't be sitting here with so much reason to be frustrated.
And when it comes to testing, we're still stuck hanging out in the bottom 20% of all of Europe.
Jessica Gonzalez said:Well, there’s a catch in all of this. Even those extreme measures—I’m mostly talking about the total economic lockdown—were implemented without much hard data to back them up. I guess I understand the logic that prevention is better than cure, but prevent what exactly? People already live normal lives alongside existing risks; there are hundreds of illnesses out there that people face, yet society manages to coexist with those dangers. It feels like people have been scared into believing a certain kind of death is inevitable. I don't think people are actually afraid of the virus because they're worried about overloading the healthcare system. If that were really the case, so many things wouldn't be part of our daily lives. I suppose the human brain just isn't wired to spend every waking moment in a state of tension simply because "the system might fail." People aren't thinking about the system; they're thinking about the immediate threat to themselves. People got terrified of the virus because they were sold a story that it would kill them. And honestly, that seems dangerous, maybe because it erodes people's confidence, their will to live, and their faith in tomorrow. Even during the American Civil War, it wasn't like this. Stadiums like Maksimir used to be packed, even though a single idiot on the opposing side could have caused massive casualties with artillery. People would cross a pontoon bridge at Maslenica even while being targeted. They accepted much higher risks because they didn't see the point in hiding away. Now, kids can't even go to the park because of a perceived danger. It’s because the narrative was pushed that a child on a slide could catch a virus that wipes out the whole family. When the first case was identified, people in Washington, D.C. acted like a nuclear reactor had exploded near a power plant. I guess it's because they've been taught to fear a painful end.
I’m already quite familiar with the whole history of this virus, including the statistics from places like Bergamo, Spain, and New York. There’s really no need to go in that direction, as you're just stating things everyone already knows. If anyone is going to make decisions that could potentially ruin millions of lives, they should probably stick to hard facts rather than relying on computer projections that aren't even close to reality and seem to change every single day. Personally, I'm doing fine; my job is secure, and my pay has actually never been higher. In fact, I actually enjoy working from home since it gives me more time to spend with my kid. But I can see what’s happening around me. Someone effectively shut down people's livelihoods and incomes, yet everyone still needs to keep their fridge stocked. It seems to me that those who crashed the economy don't even understand the basics—neither regarding the virus nor economics. They don't even seem sure about whether masks are necessary, so why am I supposed to accept that these draconian measures were timely or accurate? No thanks. I certainly won't be justifying myself to extremists who call people out just for walking around outside. To be honest, I don't really care about the risk of getting infected or infecting someone else, because objectively speaking, I’m not putting myself at risk—I maintain my distance and I'm not touching door handles. If I somehow catch it just by walking down the street, then I'll just shake hands with the virus and congratulate it. But there is absolutely no way I'm going to apologize to anyone for being out.
Beautifully written. I'm not saying I agree with everything, but that was a really well-explained perspective.
But just think about Jordan for a second, imagine if a documentary all about him and the Chicago Bulls dropped right in the middle of the quarantine era, man, anything he touches basically turns to gold 🤣
So, this documentary actually leaked onto all those pirate sites already, which is wild, and now Yahoo is reporting that Toni Kukoč is going to be one of the big stars in the fifth installment, so you can just catch it on Netflix this coming Monday.