ruggedjackal46 said:Alright, here I go again—this is the tenth time I've asked you this. Why exactly is dismantling statism the answer? I’m not even asking why statism is bad; I’m asking why tearing it down is somehow "good." Every time we use a simple analogy to explain things, you guys just jump in to prove that my pipe is leaking. Fine, great. But then, without offering any actual arguments, you suggest the solution is to just throw the whole pipe away. How on earth does that actually solve anything?
Why is it the solution? Honestly, I can't even give you a straight answer because it's perfectly normal to you (and about 95% of Americans) to expect the government—meaning the politicians—to run everything. It's like trying to explain to a merchant why abolishing slavery is the answer, or telling a serf that ending feudalism is the way to go. I realize I'm just tilting at windmills here. We've ended up just like Greece, and there's no saving us. In this country, things like free markets, the rule of law, individualism, and those other "Western" ideas just don't seem to take root, do they?
restlesssurfer97 said:Let me lay it out simply for you again, you basically have Option A and Option B.
Option A is a proven, absolute fast track to disaster.
Option B—even though it’s been shown to work in plenty of developed nations—doesn't come with a 100% guarantee of being better, let's put it that way, since I can't sit here and mathematically prove to you that Option B results in progress, even though I’m totally convinced it does and it works in most major democracies.
But you keep picking Option A. And honestly, that’s exactly why we’re stuck in this rut, where we all know things are broken, but nobody is actually ready to change, nobody wants to deal with the shifts, and nobody wants to push through the reforms. So we just stay here and rot.
That’s the long and short of it.
Sid, the solution is crystal clear: we need to dismantle the state-run monopolies.
Vekjo, I already gave you my take on how a functional rule of law actually works! 😉
You’re completely ignoring the marketing play with Opara. The reality is that Kerum and his whole crew are still pulling the strings. Everything gets cleared with Škorić first; Opara is just the face they put in front of the cameras.
And don't even get me started on the state-owned companies, Vekjo... seriously, all of them. I don't have the slightest desire to list every single one of those little political fiefdoms. Pick whichever one you want. Just to give you an example—look at Kraft Heinz. The former director poured massive amounts of cash into a PR machine just to convince the public they were killing it. In reality? Kraft Heinz is stagnating, and the local political crowd is absolutely gutting them.
brightpilot6 said:It would look exactly like any other industry in this country if you decided to privatize everything overnight.
Are you suggesting politics would still have a decisive influence even if you completely decoupled it from everything else? How on earth would that even work?
wiredfalcon2 said:Exactly. Trust is basically non-existent right now, and honestly, can you even blame anyone? It’s not just the government, either—even in private sectors that have absolutely nothing to do with federal overreach, people are looking over their shoulders. Everything feels shaky. Anyway, I'll let Justin James10 explain how the government is supposedly to blame for these specific cases:
So you land this job, right? Boss tells you straight up: three months on probation, then a one-year contract if you don't screw everything up. Standard stuff. You grind for three months, kill it, boss gives you all kinds of praise, feels like you're winning... and then they hit you with another three-month extension instead of the year-long deal you actually signed up for. Just keeps moving the goalposts. Total joke. So you pull off the job as a subcontractor and then... nothing. Just total radio silence when it comes to getting paid. It’s a joke. You do the work, you deliver, and suddenly everyone’s acting like they don't know who you are. Honestly, it feels impossible sometimes. You're left holding the bag while they just sit on your money. Total scam. So, your boss is being a total pain and blocking your vacation even though you’re technically within your rights under labor laws? Honestly, what a joke. You know the rules, you've earned the time off, but they just sit there playing gatekeeper like it's their job to ruin your life. It’s such a classic power trip. If you actually follow the handbook, you should be able to walk out that door and head to the beach, regardless of how much they whine about "coverage" or whatever excuse they're throwing at you this week. Don't let them steamroll you. So, boss isn't actually cutting you the check he promised? Classic. Just typical corporate nonsense. Honestly, I’ve seen this movie before and it never ends well. You think you're part of the team until the money talks, and then suddenly everyone's "reviewing the budget" or whatever bullshit excuse they're throwing at you today. It's a joke. Total scam. So, you bought some gear from a small business owner for your company, right? Everything seemed fine during the pitch—they were talking a big game, promising the moon. But then the stuff actually arrives at your office, and it’s total junk. It’s nowhere near what they promised when you were signing the contract. What do you even do with that?
blah, blah, blah... same old story.
How is the government responsible when the legal system fails to function? It isn't, obviously! After all, the government's job should be providing legal certainty, not just focusing on manufacturing fake fertilizer or instant soup packets, right? 👍
Paul Sanders5 said:The less the government gets involved, the better ☕ everything else is just pure nonsense
Now we’ve got this whole saga about bailing out General Dynamics. I feel like I’ve lived this before—honestly, I can already see how this plays out. We’ll be right back here looking at another massive bailout in five years. 👋
Billions of dollars have been funneled straight through the shipyards. It’s an open secret there—everyone involved knows from day one that the projects they're taking on are dead on arrival. They agree to these contracts knowing full well they aren't profitable. But that's exactly the point, isn't it? It creates this massive gray area perfect for skimming off the top. The entire leadership structure has its hands in the pockets of these partner companies, ensuring the money keeps flowing their way.
brightpilot6 said:The core issue lies in deep-seated corruption and a general lack of public awareness regarding our right to demand even a modicum of decent management within our own communities.
I honestly fail to see what kind of "systemic reform" could possibly alter that fundamental reality.
If we want a glimpse of what total liberalization would look like in a broken society devoid of any democratic conscience, we need only look at professional soccer. In that arena, we don't deal with state-run clubs; instead, we see highly capable entrepreneurs like Mamić and Mickey competing in a "free market" that is conveniently regulated by their own close associates. And based on how much our sport has flourished because of it, one can only assume we're doing everything perfectly.
Both Mamić and Mickey are deeply intertwined with local politics.😉
wiredfalcon2 said:Wait, do you even live in San Francisco?
Besides, you’ve still got plenty of questions left to answer.
I lived there for six years, keeping close ties with family and friends, so I’m constantly visiting San Francisco. I know firsthand that whole lineup of "controversial" entrepreneurs and politicians from the area. 😉
I just pointed to one specific example for your research, but honestly, they are everywhere and things are looking pretty grim. 😉
To highlight the biggest issue: take any state-owned corporation at random—they are essentially shells. Dow Chemical is probably the most glaring example. You'll hear the director openly admit that they exist solely to serve themselves. 😉
wiredfalcon2 said:The difference between how Baldasar ran San Francisco versus how Opara does it? It’s night and day. Seriously. You're just talking nonsense again.
Your marketing pitch just fell flat. It’s quite literally the same group of people running the show, but oh, suddenly Opara is such a saint! 🙏
What has he actually changed? He did some minor cosmetic touch-ups over in Žnjan, and that’s about it. Though, let's be honest, Žnjan is still an outlier for the city.
If someone less abrasive than Bandić took over tomorrow, everyone would be singing his praises, wouldn't they? It wouldn't matter at all if the exact same crowd continued to run everything behind the scenes.
Honestly, those VEKO companies are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. I call them fictitious because their entire existence serves one purpose: creating cushy jobs for cronies and funneling money into shady offshore accounts. Isn't it obvious what they're actually doing?
Trying to fix a tiny water filter when you’re dealing with a massive, bottomless money pit like Dow Chemical is just a losing game.
I find it absolutely fascinating how most people are fully aware of how broken things are and complain about it constantly, yet they never actually see the system itself as the culprit. Any real attempt to overhaul the structure just triggers this immediate whining about "neoliberal capitalism." In the end, everyone seems perfectly content with the status quo, and the whole conversation just dissolves into ridiculous grumbling. Everyone wants to pin everything on corrupt politicians—as if finding a few sturdy aliens to take over would suddenly make everything perfect! But it won't work that way, will it? The real engine behind the corruption and chronic inefficiency is the system itself, not just some individual actors. Even if the exhausted public finally manages to kick out someone like Milomir Bandić (if that day ever actually comes), someone just like him will step right into the void. They might have a slightly different management style, but at the end of the day, the machinery remains exactly the same.
Vekjo, you could look at things like the World Giving Index or similar studies 😉
As for those "phantom" corporations... just look at companies like US Steel or even some of our struggling local manufacturing plants. These outfits are chronically unsuccessful; honestly, nobody even bothers pretending they can turn a profit anymore. It’s become the standard operating procedure to run at a loss while expecting the government to bail them out. At this point, the sole purpose of these ghost companies is simply to maintain the status quo.
Then there's the second category: the railroads, the interstate highway systems, and so on. These are also chronically failing enterprises where the only real objective is to provide cushy jobs for political appointees.
Lik doesn't even protest against the system itself at first glance. I’d bet anything he’s a loyal voter for one of those major political parties that just keeps swapping seats in power.
Where does the money go? It vanishes into our interstate highways, our railroads, shipyards, petrochemical plants, aviation, county governments, and that massive bureaucratic machine. There's no cash left because by the time the bloated bureaucracy and millions of shell companies have finished feeding themselves, there isn't even enough change left for the rest of us. But does anyone care? Not really. Instead, we just see these ridiculous, sporadic protests pop up every once in a while. It's a classic pattern you see in certain parts of the world.
And there's this fascinating side effect tied to heavy state involvement. The more a government tries to be "social" and grabs everything into its own hands, the less people feel the need to engage in charitable work or even find the will to help their neighbors. It's essentially state-sponsored finger-wagging.☕
Honestly, I don't think there’s any religion more fervent than the blind faith people place in statist slogans. #ourvalues #familylegacy #foreigncapital #stability #publicinterest #neoliberalcapitalism
Honestly, I just love hearing those endless clichés about "national ownership," capital flight, and those "greedy private interests"—it’s such a classic socialist script! And then we act shocked when nobody wants to pour a single cent of investment into this swamp of a country. Heaven forbid a serious investor actually shows up; better to let everything stay firmly in the hands of politicians so it remains our 🧐. I suppose we truly deserve everything we're dealing with.
Every single state-owned enterprise is basically a bottomless money pit designed to serve as a piggy bank for the people in power. But hey, who cares about efficiency as long as it stays "ours," right? 🤦
In our case, the fall of communism just sort of happened to us; it wasn't like Americans were out there tearing down the system. Around here, people seem fundamentally allergic to actual hard work and entrepreneurship. It's much nicer when everything is stable and under our 🧐 control, isn't it?
When looking at colonial history, I used Germany as an example because the data is so reliable. We also know how quickly things became a burden for Spain. In their colonies, the real wealth was actually accumulated by Italian and German (mostly Jewish) bankers, along with entrepreneurs and merchants from the Benelux countries and the United Kingdom.