Posts by Sean Cruz

You know, I’ve been giving these kinds of relationships some thought. I haven't had the time to dig through this entire thread, but I’ve gathered enough from what’s been posted here to form an opinion. Initially, I was inclined to view this as some sort of S&M dynamic, but something about that logic just doesn't sit right with me. In a true S&M relationship, both parties are actually satisfied with their roles. That clearly isn't the case here. I've come to a different conclusion: the abuser manipulates the victim into believing they are the one at fault for everything happening. It's the same reason why victims of domestic violence in the States often struggle to leave their abusers. It's primarily driven by fear, sure, but also because they are being psychologically dismantled. Honestly, psychological abuse can be far more devastating than physical violence. It’s a form of brainwashing that strips a person of their will to live, let alone the strength to walk away—all while they remain convinced that they are the cause of their own suffering. Or, quite simply, it boils down to the sunk cost fallacy; people feel they've invested so much into the relationship that they feel obligated to see it through.

Gerald Ward61 said:Man, Soul... do we really have to go there? It’s such a gorgeous day out and we’re all actually feeling pretty good... don't ruin the vibe. Honestly, let Legion and Vess find some way to make that fit into a life story or whatever, because all I can picture is just sitting in a dark basement... what a total waste of a good time. 😉

🤣 I value your take on this. Honestly, most of the time I just get super defensive... but yeah, sometimes I can be a total brat, too... 😁 What even is "is"...? Just a thought...

Look, I'm not exactly some untouchable saint, but I definitely know when being too blunt or honest is just... bad timing. Or at least, that's my take on it. Honestly, it's probably a good thing people have a hard time keeping up with me anyway. I tend to lean pretty heavily on sarcasm and weird metaphors to get my point across... or so I like to think... 🤣 😉 And if I screw up? Yeah, I'll own it. No excuses... just straight up admitting it. 🤣 😉
I don't know, man... talking about myself always feels a little ungrateful. I always end up tripping over my own feet when I try...

I only say sorry when there’s a chance people actually took me the wrong way... otherwise, what's the point? If I actually messed up, I don't see any reason to apologize. Honestly, saying sorry when you're clearly in the wrong feels totally pointless. I admit I'm wrong, and that's just that...

Look, saying Sorry actually means something... it’s not just some empty word people throw around for no reason. Seriously, just trust in ethics and morality if you have to... or go to God, I guess... 😉 Just feeling a little bit out of it today... maybe it's the coffee... or just life... who knows...

That’s not even what I meant... Look, I’m not trying to protect my "freedom" or whatever. It’s more like I’m setting boundaries within my own freedom just so I don't end up hurting my partner. All that stalking, hovering, and harassment stuff? Total nonsense. Purely absurd. If someone actually wants to be with you, they’ll be there. Period. If they don't, there isn't a magic trick in the world to force them to stay... And honestly, this is where pride comes in—you can't just let yourself get stepped on by someone who treats you like a literal doormat. Life is too short for that. When you find someone who actually matters, someone who respects you as a human being... man, you'd walk through glass for them. It's that simple. We all set limits on our own independence when we actually care about the person we're with. Heck, you don't even have to be head-over-heels in love, but if you want a "normal" relationship, mutual respect is non-negotiable. As for where those lines are drawn? That’s between you and your partner. There aren't some universal rulebook for this stuff. You and I probably don't even see eye-to-eye on where the limit is... and that's totally fine...

Man, this is spot on! 🙂 Honestly, I’m right there with you on this one. 🙂

I spent a lovely afternoon soaking up the sun regardless. 🙂

I'm not without my flaws, but I know when being open or honest is misplaced. (At least, that's my take.) Luckily, I'm not easy to read, since I tend to lean on irony and various metaphors—again, in my opinion. But if I miss the mark, I own it, no questions asked.

🤣 I am brutally honest, just like everything else you've written. That is simply a core part of my character. 😁 However, some people just can't handle my level of sincerity, so occasionally, I hold back. 😉

Ehh, but saying "sorry" actually carries weight; it isn't just empty words. Trust ethics and morality, if you aren't going to trust God. (Just teasing a little).

I don't see much point in apologies, nor do I particularly enjoy being coddled. Just admit you messed up and move on. 🙂

Sandra Parker3 said:Okay, look, the emphasis was on wasted effort and writing off what you put in.

If you give... you give. Whether it's wasted or worth it is one thing, 🤷but
writing off an investment is just basic math or something... it's not about human relationships.

And as for things breaking you—yeah, they can, and sometimes it's permanent.
But you can also minimize the damage, and you definitely can.
I personally think you shouldn't be nitpicking in a relationship, constantly tallying up what you owe or what's owed to you, trying to balance the books so every single moment you "invested" lands perfectly and gets "returned."

You just feel so much more than what any calculation could ever account for.🙂

Actually, to counter your point, even Pelín said he probably had to go through that whole miserable ordeal just to finally meet a girl who is actually awesome.

True, I guess we all have to deal with stuff like that eventually.
The difference is who we become after it—whether we come out bitter and looking to settle scores, or if we can actually learn from the experience and move forward with it.😁

Sure, it can suck, but it's just life on this planet.🙏

My heart isn't some musical instrument playing itself.

😛

I'm not one to praise those close to me, but what can I say when we're on the same wavelength? 😍 What you wrote is the whole point. 😉 (There, I'm giving you a wink—you know I love a good wink. 🤣)

lonegardener said:Every day, in every possible way... we’re all just one step closer to the grave. LOL.

😂 There’s nothing quite like a dose of pure pessimism to kick off the morning before my first cup of coffee. 🤣

Gerald Ward61 said:Man, soul, just now saw your reply... or post, whatever. Better late than never, right? Keeping this brief so I don't end up bugging you with some endless back-and-forth over the next ten pages... 😉

Speaking of being suspended... one thing is for sure: it's easiest to manipulate someone who trusts you and is hungry for your affection. And you know how that goes with being sidelined... the less they give you, the more you crave it. It's a spiral. Usually, the people they end up with are folks who don't know how to give love at all, so it's just a never-ending loop.

Is there anything wrong with sulking? Depends on the person. For me, sulking gets on my nerves if it's actually about being hurt. I'm not apologizing for sulking, though, because that's just rude behavior and I'm not about that life.

Why apologize? It's always good to apologize when you feel the need to lighten your soul. 😉

Please, if you weren't going to bug me, we wouldn't be talking in the first place.🙂

Speaking of breakups: one thing is certain, it’s easiest to manipulate someone who trusts you and is hungry for your affection. And you know how it goes with these separations... the less they give, the more you crave. It becomes a cycle. Usually, the people they end up with are those incapable of giving love, so you're right back where you started.

I agree with everything here, especially the bolded part. Honestly, I find it fascinating how some people can't seem to break out of that loop. Sometimes it feels like even when they realize what's happening, they stay stuck. There are plenty of reasons for that, but personally, I'm all about cutting ties. It's not that I hold grudges—I tend to give people a lot of chances (sometimes way too many)—but if you see there's no point and you're just spinning your wheels without any progress, what's the purpose of staying in that relationship?🤷

Is there anything wrong with sulking? It depends on the person. For me, sulking gets on my nerves, provided it's actual sulking and not just being genuinely hurt. I don't apologize for sulking; it's rude behavior and I have no interest in supporting it.

🤣 I respect your take. In my case, it's usually about feeling hurt, though I'll admit I can be blunt sometimes, 😁 which is fair enough.

Why apologize? It's always good to apologize when you just need to clear your conscience.😉

I only asked because I only apologize when there's a chance people actually misunderstood me. If I am truly in the wrong, I don't see much point in apologizing; in those cases, an apology feels hollow. I'll admit I messed up, and that's that.

Drew Morgan said:You don't need to take my word for it; just look around. You'll see the pattern everywhere. Every individual is different.

He does. He isn't stuck in a cage; he runs the show, and we even take him out to roam through the meadows. Honestly, his life is pretty much what he wanted when he was desperately trying to claw his way out of a box at Petco. I spotted him there and bought him on impulse. He was unique—you could see his drive for independence. Then again, how much can anyone truly claim to be free within the constraints of physical existence? In a sense, he’s freer than I am because he doesn't have to worry about survival. Of course, the trade-off is that we manhandle him sometimes, which he hates. We need some kind of payoff too; we aren't just here to be servants.😍

When I compare that to my friend who keeps her cats locked indoors "for their own safety" (she's not the only one)... well, that's selfish love. It's all about her ego, not them.

That sounds more like setting boundaries to protect your own autonomy, whereas breathing down someone's neck is a total disaster. Psychologists teach us that sacrificing your own freedom just to soothe someone else's excessive psychological needs leads to absolute chaos.

It's an excellent book—witty and brutal. It's only 60 pages and you can download it online. A great guy from the Philosophy forum recommended it to me.

I see that, but I also notice that people who can't have children tend to bond more deeply with pets. Then there are those who love animals but find it unthinkable to keep a pet confined indoors. I even see people abandoning children, abandoning pets... I observe all sorts of things, but in my value system, a love for a child simply cannot be compared to a love for animals.

Well, he isn't stuck in a cage; he runs wild around the house, and we actually take him out to the meadow for walks. Honestly, I think his life is pretty much what he imagined when he was desperately trying to escape his box at Petco. That's when I noticed him and bought him without any prior planning. He was special and different, clearly driven by a desire for freedom. Though, how much can we really talk about freedom within the constraints of material existence? In a way, he’s freer than I am because he doesn't have to worry about his own survival. Of course, he pays for that sometimes by being stubborn when we pick him up, which he hates. Dammit, we need some level of satisfaction too; we don't want to be mere victims.😍

When I compare that to my friend who keeps her cats locked inside just so nothing happens to them (and she's not the only one)... damn, her love is selfish. It's not about their needs.

This is moving into philosophy territory, and we've drifted quite far off-topic.

That would apply more to setting boundaries to protect your own freedom, but breathing down someone's neck is a total nightmare. Basically, certain types of people teach us that sacrificing our own liberty just to soothe a sick person's excessive psychological needs leads to absolute chaos.

That wasn't my point. I'm not looking to protect my own freedom; rather, I intend to set limits within my own freedom so that I don't hurt my partner. Surveillance, imposition, stalking, and things like that are completely absurd to me. Someone who wants to be with you will be, if they want to. If they don't, there is no way to force them. This is where I emphasize the importance of pride—you shouldn't trample over yourself for someone who treats you like a doormat. For someone who is worth it and respects you, primarily as a person, you'd walk through glass for them.
And everyone sets boundaries on their freedom for the sake of the other party, provided they respect and love the person they are with. You don't even necessarily have to love the person you're with, but mutual respect is essential for a "normal" relationship. Where those boundaries lie is something people can figure out for themselves from one relationship to the next, as there are no universal rules. It doesn't mean you and I have the same criteria regarding this matter—it's highly likely we don't.😁

It’s a fantastic read—witty, brutal, and only about 60 pages long. You can easily find a digital copy online. A dear friend from the Philosophy board actually recommended it to me.

I just downloaded it, but at first glance, it looks like one of those self-help books. Is that the vibe? I have a massive allergy to that kind of literature.

Drew Morgan said:It's off-topic, sure, but maybe not. When it comes to love—I see people who worship their kids, and then there are those who adore their cats in the exact same way.

Personally, I don't think I could ever love anyone like that, because that kind of devotion always ends up stripping away the freedom of the object being loved.

Apply that to romantic love—do you truly love someone if you're busy limiting their freedom? I personally can't get behind that concept.

I should mention the book Awakening by Anthony de Melo. He hits the nail on the head regarding this issue.

I simply can't put those two in the same category. Not even close.

Personally, I don't think I could ever adore anyone in the way I've seen, because that kind of devotion often involves significantly restricting the freedom of the object of one's affection.

So, what about your rabbit? Do you actually believe he has any freedom?

Now, project that onto romantic love—do you truly love someone if you are limiting their freedom? Personally, I have a hard time with that concept.

I don't believe in restricting freedom in love either, though there are certain boundaries regarding how you respect a partner.

I have to mention the book awakening by Anthony de Melo again. I feel he provided a very accurate perspective on this issue.

I haven't read that book.

Drew Morgan said:As an anti-speciesist, I’m constantly exposed to this stuff, and frankly, it’s a daily drain.

Anti-speciesists view the world through a different lens—species isn't the deciding factor. We aren't anthropocentrists.

For people like me, there isn't much distinction between children and pets, except for one simple matter of preference: kids tend to get under my skin, whereas animals are a constant source of joy and entertainment.

It boils down to this: I find humans as a species rather unappealing, while animals are generally fine. Plus, they are the ones being oppressed in this world, which naturally drives deeper empathy toward them.

Vess, I don't like all kids either. I love my own child and a few others, but generally speaking, I'm not a fan. Animals, however, are almost all dear to me. 🙂 That said, I still eat meat and don't carry around a massive weight of guilt over it. By the way, you and I have veered completely off-topic here. 😳

lonegardener said:The strange part is that you only really grasped the intersection through the example of an empty set. Otherwise, the whole concept of a set intersection seems incredibly intuitive and easy to wrap your head around to me.

As for the metaphor... hmm. I think I took it the wrong way. Maybe I’m just naturally prone to pessimism, or maybe I’m just being a realist? 😍

Well, clearly, I’m just a bit of an odd duck. 😍 Even I can't quite wrap my head around why I struggled with such a simple concept, though I vividly remember how much effort my teachers put into trying to explain what an intersection actually was. 😁

As for the metaphor... hmm. I think I took it a bit too literally. Maybe I’m just a pessimist by nature, or maybe I'm just being a realist? 😍

It feels like the principle here is: I'm not graceful, but I am incredibly awkward. 🤣

Just kidding. 🙂

Drew Morgan said:Horrible, what even is this?!? I saw that movie ages ago, but I don't remember any rabbit. She killed their rabbit?!? Disgusting... It’s a tired trope—when you want to inflict the ultimate cruelty, you kill someone's pet 😢

I suspect Colour wasn't actually talking about the rabbit; I think they were using it as a metaphor for targeting children. 😉

Sandra Parker3 said:Ehm, yeah, since we're talking about being blinded by infatuation and bringing up rabbits, 😲hang in there, Drew Morgan, you're dear to me, just make sure yours doesn't end up like this one, though I'd say obsession really crushed him

Wow, you guys have covered a lot of ground here. I don't think love is blind, actually; I agree with you there
you just occasionally squint with one eye, or maybe both
Sure, you're squinting, but you still catch a glimpse through the gaps, and that’s what love is, you know... it's allowing the other person to be themselves, completely unfiltered, because that's exactly who they were when you first fell for them after all those long walks and winding roads (ugh, so dramatic, I could go on but I won't 🙄)

See, that's the difference between infatuation and love... the first one avoids obstacles, while the second one refuses to look past a double standard

Well, since you were all reminiscing about those sweet, infatuated days, it's nice to wake up the next morning and still appreciate that feeling and that person, even if it hasn't turned into a lifelong
choice... it's just a moment in time, and time eventually brings everything together so the pieces fit

Not "fit together,"
but rather "align" (like solving a puzzle, not lying)

😁
That old saying holds true: You are who you associate with. I actually held back from mentioning roasted rabbits just so I wouldn't upset Vess.

lonegardener said:That sounds a bit odd... could this be some kind of metaphor? 😲

What seems odd to you? Is it that I missed the intersection, or that I don't struggle with math? 🤣
It's a metaphor, obviously. 😉

Rebecca Scott3 said:I mean, maybe it’s actually more like a union of sets...😉

They say the first ten years are the hardest 😁 while you're struggling to find an intersection, completely unaware that you actually have a union. Some realize it early, some late, and some never at all. 😛🙂

Drew Morgan said:Love is love, regardless of the recipient. I am simply arguing my point that the only kind of love capable of forgiving everything and nourishing the soul is found with animals. I won't weigh in on maternal love—I know it can cause immense damage to children—but what a mother feels as a mother? I don't know. It likely varies from one mother to the next.

We had this debate over at my good friend (Philosophy). The fact that I bought a rabbit isn't the core issue here. I bought him because he won me over instantly and I didn't want him trapped. We started living together, and a relationship grew from that. My point is simple: we tolerate things from an animal that we would never tolerate from a human being. We endure it specifically because we love them and accept them as they are, without expecting anything in return.

Regarding what Maherica said about nursing a sick husband—that would primarily be driven by solidarity, which is the purest motivation. Beyond that, it could be anything, and not always something noble. You don't necessarily have to love someone to care for them, though if you do love them, you probably will.

It's clear we have different understandings of the love we feel for animals. There's no question that you truly love that rabbit, but it wouldn't matter which rabbit it was—you would have loved him just the same. It's different with people. I loved my cat, and I honestly preferred her company to many people I've socialized with, but I could never compare that love to the love I have for my daughter or other people I truly love.
Regarding the concept of caregiving, I completely agree with you. In fact, I think there are very few instances where someone cares for another out of pure love alone.

lonegardener said:I'm not so sure that counts as much of a 'start.' Once I cross off everything I refuse to deal with, I feel like there's nothing left on the list. 😬 🤣

I remember back in second grade, grasping the concept of set intersections was a total struggle for me. It finally clicked once they explained it using an example where one of the sets was actually empty. Ever since then, math hasn't been an issue. 😁 🤣

lonegardener said:Sure, "unconditional love" sounds like something divine—but I have two issues with that. First, I'm not even sure if God exists. Second, even if He does, I'm fairly certain humans aren't gods. 😬

So, I'm with you on this—your assessment seems spot on. The real question is how we actually live with that realization. 😢

Life isn't some fairy tale, though dreaming is a nice distraction every now and then. 🙂 While I tend to be pretty pragmatic about what people are actually capable of when it comes to love, knowing what I *don't* want is a start. And that counts for something.

Drew Morgan said:By that logic, it looks like I love only my rabbit. I expect nothing from him. In fact, I expect him to be a jerk, just like he’s always been. But if that changed, I’d still love him. We want him to give us a treat, but instead, he bites our nose. We know that's a possibility—we're happy if he gives the treat, and if he bites? Well, that's just him—stubborn, fearless, and bold.

I don't even expect him to stay good-looking, even though he is (and smells great). He could go bald, get mange, or start stinking—we would still love him. There is something special about him, and since he's an animal and not a human, you just forgive him for everything.

To me, comparing love for people to love for animals is absurd. You bought a rabbit; he’s your property. For me, that’s where the whole idea of unconditional love ends. If you had bought any other rabbit, it would be the exact same thing. The only version of unconditional love that exists is between a mother and her child, and even then, it isn't entirely absolute. What Maherica mentioned regarding caring for a spouse is, in most cases, due to the responsibility you take on through marriage, and that spouse has also "earned" that care in some way. You certainly aren't going to care for an abuser who mistreated you, unless you've lost your mind or are pitying them after the fact—and in that case, there's no question that it isn't love.

bluemaker52 said:It’s a shame, really, but I suppose we haven't quite touched on this yet. After all, if you look at one of the actual definitions:

-citat:

What exactly is pride? Is it just a fleeting emotion, or is it that profound sense of deep satisfaction one feels when looking inward? To me, true pride isn't about vanity; it’s about that quiet, steady respect you hold for your own entire being—your whole self, in its entirety.

It stems from that deeply personal, subjective realization—that sense you get when you truly believe you’ve done something meaningful, or perhaps played a part in something genuinely special. Isn't there a certain weight to that feeling? It’s that internal conviction that your actions actually mattered, that you contributed to something worthy of praise.
Pride is a real thing, but we shouldn't be using it as an excuse to dig our heels in. Not like that, anyway. A truly proud person? They’re capable of setting their ego aside for the sake of someone else.

Do you honestly believe that people who stare at someone they claim to "love" actually feel what they say they feel? Personally, I have my doubts. Is it true affection we’re seeing, or is it just something else entirely? I really don't think it's genuine.

No, that’s not what love is about at all. Maybe I wasn't being clear enough—which, let’s be honest, is a bit of a habit of mine. You shouldn't dare try to love everyone, but any form of violence is completely off the table. In true love, there is only the act of letting go.

It’s honestly quite sad, isn't it? It makes me wonder what people actually mean when they use the word "love." Because if we look at the true essence of romantic or erotic love, it should never involve being someone else's doormat. To me, that isn't love at all—it’s just selfishness disguised as masochism. When you truly care about someone, why on earth would you want them to suffer? For me, the ultimate act of love is actually letting go. If someone isn't finding happiness within a relationship, the most selfless thing you can do is release them so they can find their own joy elsewhere. But let's be real: people are inherently selfish. Often, driven by massive egos rather than any actual affection, they refuse to let go. Instead, they just feed their partner tiny crumbs of attention, just enough to keep them hooked and prevent them from leaving. And then there are those who choose to endure this nonsense, consciously putting themselves through agony because they are too afraid to walk away and seek happiness, even when they know deep down the other person doesn't love them. Isn't that also pure selfishness? There is no real love to be found in that cycle. lj It all comes down to love.

In medias res. What exactly is love? What I’ve laid out above isn't it—that’s precisely why I’m writing this. I’m not interested in discussing cheap substitutes or hollow imitations. In truth, I’ve said the exact same thing you did; I just managed to condense it into two short lines.

Does unconditional love actually exist? I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and honestly, I’m starting to believe it’s nothing more than a beautiful myth we tell ourselves. We see it in movies and read about it in sweeping romance novels, but when you strip away the cinematic lighting and the scripted monologues, what are we really left with? Is it truly possible to love someone without any strings attached, regardless of their actions or who they become? Or is every single affection we feel inherently tied to some level of expectation, reciprocity, or shared values? It feels like we're always looking for that one exception to the rule, but maybe the rule is simply that all love comes with conditions.

Is there enough closeness? 🙂

I just finished watching this video, and I honestly can’t stop thinking about it. It’s one of those pieces that really forces you to sit back and question everything you thought you knew about the subject. Have you ever encountered something that felt so deeply resonant, yet so unsettling at the same time? The way the creator layers the information is masterful. It isn't just a surface-level overview; they dive straight into the complexities, refusing to give easy answers or simple conclusions. It makes me wonder: are we actually prepared to face the implications of what is being discussed here, or do we prefer the comfort of our own assumptions? The production quality is also worth noting. It has a certain gravity to it that commands your full attention from the first second. It doesn't rely on flashy gimmicks, but rather on the sheer weight of the arguments presented. It feels earnest, almost like a direct conversation between the filmmaker and the viewer. I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks. Does the logic hold up under scrutiny for you, or did you find certain points a bit too speculative? I found myself nodding along to some parts while feeling a deep sense of skepticism about others. It’s a lot to process, but isn't that exactly why we watch these kinds of deep dives in the first place? Let's discuss. Well, I suppose there’s a bit of a connection to "corn," if you want to look at it that way... but then again, is it really that simple?

Of course, provided the person is actually worth it. 🙂

No, that has nothing to do with love. Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough (as usual). You don't dare love everyone, but any form of violence is out of the question. Love is purely about letting go.

I agree.

In medias res ... regarding what love actually is... what was stated above isn't it, which is why I'm writing this, rather than discussing substitutes. I essentially said the same thing you did, just in two lines.

🤣
Well, you should have said so.

There is enough closeness 🙂

I just dislike that phrase and everything people try to cram under its definition. 😉

Rebecca Scott3 said:I think love can still exist even if living together is impossible... or even when it's perfectly possible, but one person just doesn't want to go there.....

🙂

It's the truth. In certain instances, love doesn't even end when we lose the people we care about (and I'm not just talking about romance here).

Drew Morgan said:Trying to discipline my rabbit is a lost cause; the more I try to impose order, the more he rebels, plots, and executes his little schemes. It’s like trying to teach a drill sergeant how to relax. I finally realized I just have to accept him for exactly who he is—flaws and all—without trying to cage his terrible personality. Honestly, he’s the only person I’ve ever truly connected with on that level. It's fascinating, really. I've come to realize that those expensive things he trashed—my designer wool coat, high-end sandals, the custom furniture—matter far less than the connection itself.

But here’s the thing: accepting a rabbit, or a person, 😁 exactly as they are isn't actually unconditional love. Maybe you and I just define "unconditional" differently.
To me, being truly unconditional would mean expecting absolutely nothing from the other party—literally zero. I don't think any living creature is capable of that. Even in your case, that rabbit makes you happy because he plays with you and provides companionship, but there's still an element of ownership involved. That's not unconditional love. It's the same with people. Even when we claim to love someone unconditionally or say we'd die for them, we’re always subconsciously expecting something in return. In my view, unconditional love is little more than self-delusion.

Gerald Ward61 said:I’m gonna drop one of my own here regarding love—probably the wisest thing ever said about it, even if some other geniuses thought it first, though who cares about that 😁 😉...

People love exactly as much as they are capable of, you know? Like, based on what they actually know and can handle.

Is love blind? Well, personally, I’d say love comes equipped with its own microscope.

Passion, obsession, just losing your damn mind—when you're caught in the middle of those emotions, there's no other way to be. Now, why those feelings hit certain people harder than others is a whole different ballgame and basically needs a custom approach for everyone. It’s all a kind of obsession; if you understand the theory behind it, things get a little easier because you don't get quite so lost in the sauce. It doesn't feel nearly as freakish, either. You realize you need to reel it in and you're actually willing to cooperate. And obviously, there's a massive difference whether these crazy passions hit you when you're young or later in life. Still, (or let's hope for most people, which is probably true statistically speaking) we tend to be more grounded as we age, so if those emotional tornadoes show up, they're harder to stomach, but maybe easier to shut down since you have more life experience under your belt (unless, of course, you don't, in which case my whole theory goes right out the window).

So, regarding that whole pride thing Sean Cruz mentioned... in my opinion, in an "ideal" or even just a "normal" partnership, pride is totally useless because it just evaporates through the constant cycle of giving and receiving. It becomes fundamentally unnecessary, not just "kind of" unnecessary. I'm guessing you're thinking about things like being insulted and all that... which you already brought up... but do you really think *that* is love? Nah, that’s just the prelude to getting there.
But then again, being petty or turning your back on someone isn't exactly loving either, right? Moderation, ugh... honestly, people should just find one partner and stick with them from start to finish. And man, wouldn't that be great if we actually knew which person suited us best and who would push us to grow (and vice versa), assuming we were all self-aware enough to know the theory and had some solid mentors to guide us. Did I miss anything? 😁 😉 Oh, yeah, I owe an apology to all my exes (always good practice). 🙂

🤣
Self-confidence is essential. 🙂

Everyone loves only as much as they are capable of, knowing and being able to.

Is love blind? Well, I’d argue that love actually comes equipped with a microscope.
Passion, madness, or sheer frenzy—when you're caught in the middle of that emotional "wash," you can't be any other way. Now, why those emotions hit you with varying intensity is a different matter entirely and requires an individual approach. They are essentially obsessions; if you understand them theoretically, it's easier because you don't get quite as lost in the fray. It isn't even that strange. You know you need to reel it in, and you're willing to cooperate. Of course, there's a difference between experiencing such passionate loves in your youth versus later in life. Still, (or let's hope for most people, which I believe is statistically true from multiple angles) a person is more grounded. So, if those tornadoes hit, they are harder to endure, but easier to stop because you possess more wisdom (though, granted, if you lack it, my theory falls apart).

You know what I think? This emotional "wash" precedes actual love. We all have to go through this phase to realize whether we truly love and whether we are truly loved. Actual love arrives as a sense of calm.

Now, regarding pride, Sean Cruz mentioned it... In my view, within an "ideal" or "normal" partnership, pride is a useless thing because it evaporates through the cycle of giving and receiving. It becomes unnecessary fundamentally, not just conceptually. I assume you're thinking about insults and such, as you mentioned... but do you really think that is love? It isn't; you haven't reached it yet.
But playing games or turning your back on someone isn't exactly loving either, is it? Moderation... ugh. That's why people should ideally have one partner from beginning to end. It would be wonderful if we knew exactly who suits us and who would encourage us to change, just as we would encourage them—provided we were all aware of these dynamics, understood the theory, and had good mentors.

Naturally, pride fades and erodes over time. However, from what I gather here (I haven't read the specific thread on this), the issue is that people stay in relationships even when the other person treats them like a fool for years. Honestly, I can't wrap my head around that. If someone is intentionally humiliating you and expects you to take it, they don't love you. It's that simple, though people try to justify the behavior because they want to believe in something else. As for moderation, that is indeed best, but people tend to swing from one extreme to the other. Few manage to find the middle ground. I agree with the rest—the longer people are together, the better they know each other, it becomes less stressful, and they simply settle into a life together. Jealousy, pride, and everything else unnecessary in a "normal" relationship disappears. Provided, of course, the partners are compatible. And sulking? Well, I enjoy sulking occasionally—is there anything wrong with that?😁 🤣

Sure, I’ll apologize to all my exes (it’s always a good move). 🙂

What is there to apologize for?

Drew Morgan said:I believe unconditional love is reserved strictly for animals. And even then, it’s only possible if you actually care for and understand them. If such a thing exists, it stops at the kennel door.

Oh, come on, Drew Morgan, don't go there. I love animals, sure, but I wouldn't call it unconditional love. 😉

velvetrider said:I mean, love is about trust—it isn't blind. It’s more about how much you’re actually willing to risk by letting someone in, I guess. And common sense is definitely in the mix; it’s kind of what keeps you from totally breaking down.
Love needs two people, right? You can't have a monologue, whether you're talking or just thinking.
..time.. sometimes all it takes is just one moment, nothing more.
And pride... good grief, you should be proud of things that matter, but maybe not when it comes to love.

I can agree with almost everything said here, except for that final sentence. Why on earth do you think pride has no place in love? Do you honestly believe that people who stomp all over the person they claim to "love" actually love them? I don't. Now, the definition of "love" is subjective, but based on my understanding of romantic or erotic love, it certainly doesn't involve being someone else's doormat. That isn't love; it’s just selfishness masquerading as masochism. When you truly love someone, you don't want them to suffer—in fact, for me, the ultimate act of love is letting someone go so they can find their own happiness if they aren't fulfilled in the relationship. Unfortunately, people are selfish, and often driven by massive egos rather than affection, they won't let a partner go; instead, they toss out mere crumbs just to keep them hanging on. Similarly, those who endure such nonsense are choosing to suffer because they refuse to leave and seek happiness elsewhere, even when they know deep down the other person doesn't care. That is pure selfishness too. There isn't a single li of love in that.
Unconditional love is a myth.

Susan Diaz3 said:I like to think of myself as a non-materialistic person, but if I’m being honest, there’s one thing standing in my way. I suppose as long as that desire exists, I’m not truly a "non-materialist"—it's my attachment to things I've actually created myself.

Not letting go of things I've bought isn't really my issue. Over the last decade, I've lost so many phones, jewelry, accessories (gloves, scarves, umbrellas...), even pricier items like MP3 players and cameras... I don't think I've ever heard anyone else admit to being quite this clumsy when it comes to losing stuff. 😲
So, I've decided that maybe all this was meant to teach me not to get attached to things, and I am working on it; I believe I'm on the right track.

But when it involves products of my own mind and hands, it’s a bit harder. I have this ability to make aesthetically pleasing things—clothing, jewelry... I draw, I design, I just love it. If someone were to ask me "Why?", my answer would be—because I can. It frustrates me when people have talents they don't use, and I get frustrated with myself when I hit those long "dry" spells. During those times, I feel like an incomplete person, and as soon as I get back to work—everything feels right again. Anyone who has ever poured their entire mind and body into a task for hours upon hours knows how much it resembles meditation; plus, in the end, we aren't just rewarded with clear, focused thoughts, but with a tangible object that came into existence through the process.

The problem—though I'm not even sure if it's a problem—is that the item becomes deeply important later on. It gets to a point where I'd only ever gift it to my closest people, and if I thought about selling it, I don't think I could ever bring myself to part with it for any amount of money.
At this stage of my life, the feeling is perhaps the closest thing to motherhood I can experience.
I realize these are just "things," so I don't want to delude myself into thinking it's anything different from being attached to a car or a new pair of shoes.

Do you have similar experiences? Have you overcome this, and if so, how? 🙂

That feeling can't be close to motherhood. Motherhood and possession are two fundamentally opposing concepts. While our creations fulfill us in their own way, the love one feels for a child and the love one feels for their own work aren't even in the same ballpark.