Posts by Sean Cruz

steeltiger2 said:Ugh, that stupid feeling is hitting me all over again. Some girl is basically throwing herself at him through these long-winded messages, pretending they’re just "discussing business"...
He treats her like any other outside contractor or freelancer, so I really shouldn't be getting worked up at him, but let's be real—I know exactly what she's playing at.
It’s just so transparent. When she needed to discuss something with me online, she suddenly couldn't be bothered because she saw me as "just a woman," but then, wouldn't you know it, she reaches out to *him* the very next day about the exact same topic!!!! What a piece of work... honestly, part of me wants to do something about it, but I can't decide if it's even worth my energy.

This reminds me of my younger days when I used to starve myself over guys who weren't even worth the effort. 🤣
The only way to pull his attention away from her isn't by making a scene; it's to boldly seduce him right when she sends him a message. 😁 After that, he probably won't even realize she messaged him, let alone bother to reply. 😛

Justin Allen81 said:If I’ve misread the situation—though I doubt it, given that the OP clearly holds a negative view toward sexual experimentation during youth (which, let's be honest, is perfectly natural)—then my apologies. However, you jumped to a conclusion about a subject you're clearly uninformed about. What am I supposed to do with that? Spend thirty minutes lecturing you on basic biology and human sexuality? I don't see the point; you’d probably just dismiss my arguments as nonsense anyway.

My comment was strictly about your assessment of the book, nothing more. I didn't call YOU an idiot—I don't think that. But your assumption regarding a book you haven't read, seen, or even Googled, specifically, and I quote:

"Oh, so these are those books like 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' or whatever. Does anyone actually take that stuff seriously?"

I'm sorry if you took offense; that wasn't my intention. But if you think your previous comment wasn't total nonsense... well, it was.

The user I was replying to clearly has no grasp of biology, tossing out completely nonsensical arguments that you somehow missed while focusing on how "uninformed" I am. 🙄 It seems you also overlooked the link to the sexuality thread on this site. That thread actually contains high-quality posts and legitimate arguments about sexuality, unlike the pseudo-arguments being pushed by Peter Phillips32. Have you even read his posts to see the sheer amount of logical fallacies involved, or are you just attacking my posts because I don't share your perspective?
By the way, there's no need to apologize; we're on an internet forum, you can't "offend" me. Just try reading the actual thread for once before drawing conclusions.

Justin Allen81 said:Good grief. Please stop spouting nonsense about things you clearly don't understand.
"My Secret Garden" by Nancy Friday was an actual study on female sexual fantasies conducted back in the 1970s—quite thorough, too—covering a representative sample of women across all ages (in the US, Europe, etc.).
So, it’s a scientific study, not some random bullshit.
Though, I'll admit, it's a fun read, haha.😁

As for the original poster, it's the same old story. How have I not learned to avoid any thread touching on anything related to homosexuality yet? It always leaves me disgusted seeing what people post.

Homophobes make me sick—truly. I think you're all just uneducated, narrow-minded cattle. Look, if a moderator needs to hand out a ban, then fine, let them—but I honestly believe people like that deserve to be insulted, because they're nothing but trash. Just like racists or xenophobes... They aren't even real people; the normal rules of society don't apply to them.

It’s fascinating how everyone has latched onto this one insignificant book while completely ignoring basic biology. On the other hand, you’ve skimmed the topic so superficially that you missed the entire point, yet you still feel entitled to be insulting. But then again, that's just your level of discourse—it says everything about you and nothing about me.😉

Thanks, lonegardener. You’re a true gentleman. 🙂

Peter Phillips32 said:God, the logical fallacies here are endless—everything from ad hominem attacks to playing the victim. It's not helping you, not in trying to prove a point and certainly not in your attempt at sarcasm.

I’m talking about the actual skill required to achieve something like that. You need a reason to even start, and since you clearly don't have one, you can't even begin to test whether my claims hold water.
It’s like thinking you can just pick up singing or painting overnight. (That’s a rhetorical question, by the way, since you're clearly backing out of this "discussion" you think we were actually having.)
p.s.
If you're wondering why I put "discussion" in quotes, it's because I don't see this as a real dialogue, given that I haven't seen a shred of psychological insight in any of your posts on this topic. (And just to be clear, if anyone tries to nitpick—I don't consider it true understanding unless there's actual agreement; otherwise, it's just knowing the vocabulary and being able to express it.)

The logical inconsistencies you're leaning on and those half-baked arguments you're throwing out leave me with nothing but sarcasm; there’s honestly zero substance here for a real discussion. As for your sweeping generalizations about me staying quiet—if we follow your logic that being non-liberal is exclusive to heterosexual people, then we could just as easily apply that to homosexual people, right? They aren't open to heterosexual experiences, so they supposedly lack that "breadth of perspective" that is apparently only granted by God to those who are open to every kind of sexual experience. That particular brand of "logic" you're using? It's called faith...

Peter Phillips32 said:Look, there aren't "recipes" in there, just actual experiences from women—their fantasies, their realities—viewed through a scientific lens. It was written by researchers who actually specialize in this field, so you can actually take the data to the bank.
Hehe, well obviously data is collected case by case... that's how science works, isn't it?

I don't even see how that would be possible; if that were true, we’d all be born hermaphrodites so we could just consciously pick which gender we wanted to be.

Pure science fiction.🙂
The biological purpose of sex is reproduction, sure, but let's be real: orgasm is way more frequent. Which gender you achieve that with depends entirely on your own preferences (assuming you actually have freedom of thought). Those preferences come from this messy cocktail of hormones, thoughts, feelings, and whatever is happening in your immediate environment. And honestly, the society we live in plays a huge role too, because it isn't quite liberal enough to let people truly exercise free will regarding what they prefer.

That makes zero sense. In your last paragraph, you’re claiming we can consciously choose our sexual inclinations, but you're totally contradicting yourself. Honestly, I get the feeling you're just regurgitating stuff you read in certain books without actually applying any critical thinking to it.

Actually, yeah, I am saying it's possible to choose which gender you climax with or enjoy sex with.
Think about it: learning starts even before birth with the development of the nervous system in the womb, where a baby perceives the world through vibrations and sound. Up until a certain age—maybe four?—a kid can't really tell reality apart from make-believe. So, since a child is basically a sponge, absorbing everything without questioning it, they soak up the state of the world around them as the absolute norm. When someone is conditioned by their environment to be a heterosexual person (strictly hetero, because society lacks the liberalism to allow anything else), they grow up identifying their sexuality based on the existence of a mom and a dad. Since Mom and Dad are "natural," then being with them feels natural, enjoyable, and desirable. Society loves what is "natural" and "comfortable," and since I'm part of that society, I feel pressured to be natural and comfortable, and so on (I think you see where I'm going with this).
Because this is so deeply ingrained, it gets labeled as "natural"—you know, the whole "we are naturally heterosexual, God made us this way" trope. (And look, don't come at me for bringing religion into it, I'm not going to debate that).

It's just like any other preference—whether it's liking a specific symphony, a certain juice, a TV show, a game, a sport, or strawberries with whipped cream—sexual enjoyment can be shifted. The extent of that shift depends on the ability of the person making the change. And that ability, for whatever it's worth, can be improved, mostly through practice. So, when you think you need to "quit" something (which is usually just an unwanted habit), what you're actually doing is replacing it, because nothing exists in a vacuum. If you can successfully swap one thing out, you can do the second, then the third—and if you can master it in those areas, then yeah, you can definitely do it with sexuality in conscious situations.

Look, if you’ve actually got some hard science or actual research studies to back up your claim that most women's go-to fantasy is hooking up with another woman, then fine—go ahead and toss my point out the window. And hey, I'm not saying there aren't straight women who have those thoughts, obviously, but I am certain it isn't the "majority."

So there's the logic, and to wrap this up...

Like slywolf45 was saying, do you honestly think people are just going to step up and admit the truth when they know they're staring down the barrel of social judgment? People are terrified of being cast out by the very community they belong to, and once you're rejected, you feel totally worthless. You can't forget that most folks just take the path of least resistance to stay safe.

Also, let's be real, why does it seem like both men and women find women more attractive lately? It's because women are putting way more effort into their look these days.

I’ll admit, I’m not liberal at all, so I don't spend my time fantasizing about homosexual relationships. 😢

Something this deeply rooted is considered natural, leading us to these stereotypes—that we are inherently heterosexual, that God made us that way, and so on.

The thing is, that isn't some stereotype; it's a factual reality. I have no desire to debate this topic with you. I see that lonegardener has already replied, and it's clear you consider yourself to be on some "higher level" given how liberal your views are. 😉

Just like any other preference—whether it's symphonic music, fruit juice, TV shows, games, sports, or strawberries with whipped cream—sexual enjoyment can be changed. The degree of change depends on the ability of the person changing. That ability, for whatever it's worth, can be improved, primarily through practice.

What can I say? I haven't the slightest clue how sex can be "improved." In my view, sex is strictly for reproduction. Perhaps that's why I'm not on that "advanced level," since I don't fantasize about women. 😢

Similarly, why are women currently more attractive to both men and women? It's because they take better care of their appearance.

Women, no matter how beautiful, don't excite me; whereas men, regardless of how unattractive they may be, do (though not everyone—just the occasional rare case). What can I do? I am just an ordinary woman without those "progressive" views. 😢

slywolf45 said:And yet, somehow, I'm the one finding it abnormal?
I’m simply pointing out that people tend to open up to me far more readily once they realize I'm part of the community.

On the flip side, the real gut punch for my sister was when her ex admitted he’d cheated on her with another man. So, while her best friend is gay and there’s zero judgment regarding her orientation—they talk about it like it’s nothing—she would never, ever date a bisexual man again. 😉
It’s not like I’m exactly out of the loop.

So what?
For most Americans, having a partner confess to cheating with someone of the same sex would be a massive blow regardless of anything else.
It isn't some strange phenomenon. It doesn't matter whether you're trending or not.

No, that isn't what I wrote. I was responding to your claim about being "better equipped" to understand because you're gay while I'm straight. Fine, maybe people have confided in you, but that doesn't make them the "majority."

Yeah, and? For most people, finding out their partner cheated on them with someone of the same sex would be a massive blow.
It isn't anything unusual. Regardless of whether you are in the middle of it or not.

But that is exactly my point. If we all shared the same preferences, why would cheating with someone of the same sex be so much harder to swallow than cheating with someone of the opposite sex?

slywolf45 said:What exactly am I seeing differently?🤷

No, but it doesn't mean they weren't either. 😉
You pick up on a lot more things when you're right in the thick of it—if that's even how you'd put it. You hear way more than you do when you're straight.😉

My sister’s best friend is a lesbian. To her, it’s completely unremarkable that most of her friends aren't, just as it's perfectly normal to them that she is.
On the flip side, the biggest blow my sister ever took was when her ex confessed he’d cheated on her with a man. So, while her best friend is gay and she holds zero prejudice against her orientation—they talk about it like any other topic—she would never, ever date a bisexual man again. 😉
So, it's not like I'm entirely out of the loop.

slywolf45 said:You think only two of them told you.😉

Don't get it twisted—no matter how good or close people are, there are certain things you just don't tell anyone. Not a soul.

Sure, there's a chance they didn't actually say anything like that. But does that mean they weren't thinking it? 😉

lonegardener said:I honestly can't recall ever having dreams like these.

I never saw this coming, but I once had a dream where—completely by accident, mind you—I ended up slicing my little brother with a saber. I can still vividly recall that crushing sense of guilt... even though it wasn't intentional, it didn't make the feeling any easier to stomach.

On the other hand, I don't recall ever dreaming about having sexual contact with an unknown, LOL. It just goes to show how much those developmental phases vary... if anything, I probably moved past that stage before I was even five years old, back when I couldn't even remember my own dreams.

So, you finally picked a side, didn't you? 🙂

Exactly.

Only two of my friends ever fantasized about being with another woman, and that was back when they were around fifteen or sixteen. One of them actually went through with it, but honestly? It wasn't exactly life-changing for her. 😁

I couldn't agree more with your take on those "developmental stages." 🙄

I don't hold any prejudice against gay people, but this idea that most individuals go through these inclinations as some sort of "developmental phase" is complete nonsense. ☕

I have absolutely no intention of flirting with anyone here. On this forum we have some fascinating discussions regarding homosexuality, so if that’s your thing, feel free to dive in. 😉

Peter Phillips32 said:Look, I haven't even heard of the book you're bringing up, so comparing them is a total reach on my part. If you haven't actually sat down and read both of them, then honestly, this whole comparison just feels totally unfounded.

Does anyone actually take this seriously?

I mean, I’ve got plenty of reasons—actual arguments, if you want to call them that—to take the book I mentioned dead serious.

I don't buy into this "bisexual nature" thing; basically, we're all somewhat bisexual, we just suppress it. 🙄

Honestly, I don't really buy the whole "it's innate" argument either—whether we're talking about being gay, straight, or bi. To me, it's more about the fact that you can consciously choose which gender you want to go for.

It's the modern way of thinking these days, so girls end up experimenting.
Anyway, sex with another woman definitely isn't the most common fantasy for most women, just for those who lean towards homosexuality.

Whether it's "modern" or not doesn't matter, and making broad generalizations is just as irrelevant. (And if you're wondering why I say it's irrelevant, the answer is simple: use your brain.)
The bottom line is, unless you've got some actual source or can explain exactly where that second sentence is coming from, it's basically just hot air.

I have zero interest in books that try to provide a "recipe" for living based on broad generalizations. As soon as an author claims that a specific fantasy is common among most women—based on a handful of anecdotal cases—it becomes clear how little scientific weight the book actually carries. Being a bestseller doesn't mean anything to me.

I have plenty of reasons to take the book I mentioned seriously.

Believe whatever you want; whether it's about sexuality or aliens, it's your prerogative.

I don't believe we are born with a fixed nature (regarding sexuality—whether straight, gay, or otherwise). I believe it's possible to consciously choose one's own orientation.

I fail to see how that would be biologically possible. If that were true, we would all be born hermaphrodites so that we could actually make a conscious choice about our sex.

Whether it's modern or not, and whether there are generalizations or not, is irrelevant. (And if you're wondering what it's irrelevant to, the answer is logic.)

It isn't a matter of logic. In your previous paragraph, you claimed we consciously choose our sexual orientation. You are contradicting yourself. Honestly, it seems to me that you are simply interpreting things you've read in certain books without applying any critical thinking.

Look, unless you have a source or can clarify exactly what your second sentence is based on, it holds no water.

Go ahead and present your own argument—backed by actual scientific research—proving that the most common sexual fantasy for the majority of women is sex with another woman. Only then can you dismiss my statement. And let me be clear: I am not saying heterosexual women don't have such fantasies, but they certainly aren't the "majority."

Peter Phillips32 said:I think I saw it tucked away somewhere in Anaïs Nin - Delta of Venus 🙂

Honestly, those books are just like "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" or whatever. Does anyone actually take that stuff seriously?

I don't buy this idea of "bisexuality" being an inherent trait. I think we’re all essentially bisexual, but we just suppress it. 🙄

In this day and age, it's considered modern to think that way, so you see more women experimenting. In all likelihood, sex with another woman isn't the most common fantasy for the average woman—it's really just for those who are already predisposed to homosexuality.

Peter Phillips32 said:Just wanted to jump back in here and follow up on post number 6.
It’s pretty much common knowledge that when you talk to women about their sexual fantasies, same-sex attraction pops up more often than you'd think. Honestly, we don't even have solid numbers for guys because, let's face it, most dudes aren't exactly running to a therapist or a forum to vent about their deepest thoughts and feelings—they just keep it bottled up.

As far as I'm concerned, sex is basically the ultimate level of intimacy you can reach with another human being. You've got no walls up, no defensive mechanisms running; you're just raw. Think of it this way: sex is how you truly round out a connection with someone. And look, it doesn't matter if you're hitting that level of closeness with a guy, a girl, or a whole group of people.
I mean, the whole point of having sex isn't just about making babies, so it's obviously used for way more than just reproduction.
Up until now, I haven't seen much actual criticism here, aside from the usual unhinged nonsense coming from those "holier-than-thou" types who think they're morally superior to everyone else.

If you want to look at it through a different lens—like how we control our own muscles, emotions, and thoughts—it works similarly. If you can associate the act of sex with the opposite sex in a way that triggers arousal, then sure, you can also trigger that same response with the same sex, or with both. That's essentially how you end up with hetero, homo, or bisexual orientations.
For anyone who thinks this theory sounds a bit out there, just take a second to really think about how and when sexual orientation actually develops in the first place.

A few random things to chew on:
The brain is hands down the most powerful aphrodisiac out there.
From a physiological standpoint, male nerve endings run from the base of the penis all the way through to the anus—both externally and internally.

(sarcastic) p.s.
Wondering why there seem to be more bisexual women than men? It's probably because "macho" guys are too busy playing the role of the big, tough provider who only knows how to give, never receive. They've gotta stay "strong," right?

Where on earth did you read that?

Rebecca Scott3 said:I’ve never really been able to wrap my head around those jumping games... I was never much of an athlete myself...
...but honestly, watching how people freak out when you try to jump around them? That’s the funniest part.

For those who aren't ticklish, it’s all fun and games. But for someone who actually is? If you keep at it, it stops being funny pretty fast—it just becomes incredibly uncomfortable.
That said, there are certain moments where tickling can shift into something else entirely. 😁

lonegardener said:So, it looks like that old cliché holds up: it is impossible to please a woman. 😬 🤣

Not necessarily—if he manages to survive the fallout, he might just earn some credit. 😁 🤣

By the way, I can't believe you've actually lost interest in debating a topic; it feels like I'm single-handedly draining your will to argue. 😛 🤣

lonegardener said:How exactly can someone tell that kind of truth without causing worry? I'm genuinely curious. What kind of wording should he have used instead?

I don't know, I can see it both ways. You ask "why plant a seed," and I'm asking "why stay silent if you've already noticed?" You obviously "noticed" those guys at work like you, right? You remember it, and you probably thought about it too... by your own logic, that means they like you just because you picked up on it. 😬

In my view, it's the truth in both your case and his. 😈 That's just how it works; your subconscious is telling you what this actually means for your relationship, even if your conscious mind isn't ready to accept the conclusion.

Look, it’s a double-edged sword. If someone tells me they find me attractive, I’m immediately suspicious of their motives. But if they don't say anything and I find out from someone else later? Well, then I’m coming for them. 😁 🤣

The bottom line is that we can only guess what's going on in someone's head and why they act the way they do.

lonegardener said:Not quite. 🤷 If you apply that same logic to yourself—basically allowing someone else to "own" you in the exact same way—then how can you possibly call it selfishness? If you aren't truly your own person to begin with, where is the self to be selfish? 😕

I’m not a fan of that term. To me, it feels like an attempt to "amnesty" what I see as pure selfishness. If we label everything above as just being selfish, then we're implying that selfishness isn't inherently bad—and once you go down that road, you can justify just about anything.

Of course, it’s pure selfishness. If you want to possess someone else while claiming you only belong to yourself—as if that somehow preserves your "autonomy"—you're just being self-centered.

I’d say something along those lines, though I might frame it a bit differently. I could also see myself coming to a slightly different conclusion.

Sure, the reason could be legitimate, or it might just be something someone made up. Personally, I tend to think it’s usually based on reality—that's your subconscious picking up on an actual situation where there's a genuine reason to feel jealous. It stems from that underlying fear that you're eventually going to lose what you consider "valuable."

So, people who claim they aren't jealous are really just devaluing what they supposedly "have." They tell themselves there are a million others just like you, all before the breakup even happens. Honestly, it makes the split so much easier to stomach if you've already mentally checked out and convinced yourself you're replaceable.

It reminds me of that old joke about John. When people ask him why he went and married such an unattractive woman, he just shrugs and says, "So I won't feel too bad when she eventually leaves me." 🤣

That isn't actually true, is it? I mean, would you honestly enjoy getting attention from someone who’s just a terrible person? Someone you don't even like, or who actually makes your skin crawl?

Only give your attention to the things you perceive as "positive." You could even go so far as to say, only focus on what you deem "eligible" from your own perspective. 😬

Sure, I’ve definitely run into people like that—the type who crave attention from absolutely anyone and everyone. To me, that feels like a pretty strange way to feed one's ego. Honestly, it just doesn't make any sense.

Sure, you can do that. But like I said, staring facts straight in the face isn't always helpful. If the reality of the situation is actually bad—meaning you have a legitimate, valid reason to feel jealous—then what does "facing the truth" really achieve? How is knowing you're right supposed to help you control the jealousy when the facts are just confirming that your suspicion is justified?

Look, I didn't mean it like that—I know how this comes across. But honestly, you were the one who said it was already over, so I'm just going by what you told me.

I completely agree. I’d much rather take a hammer to the head than a knife in the back, or a bullet to the forehead than being impaled on a stake. Just because there’s something even worse out there doesn't make the current situation "positive." Saying a knife in the back is worse doesn't mean you should celebrate getting hit with a hammer, or that it's something to be grateful for, LOL. You wouldn't say you "appreciate" a mugger just because he didn't kill anyone during the robbery. 🤣

Did you forget where we started this conversation? We began with an "honest" stance—that we’ll stick together until we find something better. The fact that being shady is even worse than our current spot doesn't make it a good thing. It’s simply choosing the lesser of two evils. That's my take on it, anyway; feel free to disagree if you think this is actually ideal. 😬

It seems to me that you and I are using different definitions of "selfishness." To me, selfishness is a fundamental human trait, whereas narcissism is negative in every context because a narcissist only cares about everyone else to the detriment of themselves.
Let me try to explain it this way: Can you love more than one woman at the same time? I personally couldn't love more than one man—I could fall in love, sure, but I couldn't *love*. Therefore, "selfishness" in romantic love means focusing your partner exclusively on one another without diluting that love by spreading it to others. That’s why I call romantic love "selfish."

Of course, it's toxic selfishness if you want to possess another person while viewing yourself as solely your own and no one else's—essentially, "maintaining your autonomy."

That's just narcissism.

I would say something similar to the point above, though perhaps with different wording and maybe a slightly different conclusion.

Then it isn't really all that similar. 🤣

Well, yes, the reason might be real, or it might be imagined. It seems to me that it's mostly real—that your subconscious is telling you what the actual situation is, and within that reality, there are legitimate reasons to feel jealous. You sense that, eventually, you're going to lose what you perceive as "valuable."

Exactly, I think so too.

So, those who claim they aren't jealous have actually just "devalued" what they supposedly "have." They tell themselves, "...there are a million people just like you," even before they break up. Of course, it makes a breakup much easier to handle if you've already reconciled yourself to it.

To me, that reminds me of that old joke about Moe, when he's asked why he married such an unattractive girl. He says, "So I won't regret it when she leaves me." 🤣

You could say that you simply realize everything is fleeting and come to terms with it (as much as possible). Speaking of jokes, there's also this one:
Moe brought five women along to pick a life partner. He spent a few hours there and walked away happy. Solomon asks him how he made his choice, and he explains that one was brilliant, another was an incredible cook, a third had a gentle soul...
"And which one did you pick?" Solomon asks impatiently.
"The one with the biggest breasts." 😁

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That isn't actually true, is it? You wouldn't find the attention of someone, say, a terrible guy "pleasing," especially if you actually found him repulsive.

In my case, it isn't, but I am hardly the standard, since it takes a very specific kind of man to attract me enough for me to actually enjoy his attention. 🤣-
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One only "enjoys" the attention of those they perceive "positively." Or perhaps, one could say, those perceived as "eligible" from their own perspective. 😬

That’s about it, and as I mentioned, such people are an extremely small minority.
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Though, truth be told, I have encountered those who "enjoy" anyone's attention, literally anyone. To me, that seems like a strange form of vanity. Illogical, really.

Well, I know plenty of people like that, particularly men.
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You can, but as I said, looking at the facts realistically doesn't necessarily help. If the factual reality is such that you actually HAVE a legitimate reason to be jealous, how does knowing that help you control the jealousy? It just confirms you have a reason for it.

It doesn't help me, because when I have a genuine reason to be jealous, I become unbearable. 😳-
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Um, I didn't mean to imply I knew "how." I just know it ended, as you said yourself.

Everything comes to an end eventually, and I'm sure you know that all true loves are tragic. 😁-

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No, I agree. A hammer to the head is better than a knife in the back, and a bullet to the forehead is better than being impaled. But just because something worse exists doesn't make the lesser evil "positive." Just because a knife in the back is worse doesn't mean you should celebrate getting hit with a hammer, or value it, LOL. You can't say you "appreciate" a robber just because he didn't kill anyone during the heist. 🤣

It really depends on your perspective. If you were the one being held hostage, you’d probably just be grateful they didn't pull the trigger, wouldn't you?

You seem to have forgotten where we started this conversation—with the idea of an "honest" approach, staying together until something better comes along. Just because settling for less is slightly better than choosing the absolute worst option doesn't make it a great way to live. That’s just my take; feel free to disagree if you think that's actually ideal. 😬

I haven't forgotten. But don't you think most relationships actually start that way? Or do you honestly believe every single romance is built on "love at first sight"?😬 Of course, that doesn't mean every casual beginning turns into some epic, soulmate-level love story, nor does it mean every relationship is a total disaster. You can never truly know where a relationship is headed or how it will end, regardless of how it kicked off.

steeltiger2 said:The problem is, it usually happens most often when it's about something serious; if it were that, I’d probably just walk away.
But some people just know exactly how to hit that ego button by bringing up other women in the most pathetic ways possible. Honestly, you don't even need to mention those things to your partner, and I truly don't get why people do it.
For instance:
Him: "Hey, I think Brankica really likes me. I don't get it, though, since we have absolutely nothing in common..."
Her: "Okay, but why are you even telling me this if it's not important? What am I supposed to say? Am I meant to be flattered? Or sorry that you two aren't a match? I don't get it.😕"
Him: "Oh, come on, do you really think it boosts my ego that she likes me? I mean, have you seen what Brankica looks like?"
Her: "So the others boost it, then? And that other thing...(😛)"
Him: "😠"

I completely see where you're coming from, but you'll notice the difference in perspective when you compare my take to lonegardener's. I'd suggest listening to him; he probably has a better grasp on the male psyche. 😁

From what you've described, it sounds to me like the guy is a bit of an overthinker who thrives on being the center of attention. It might not even be true that these women are "into" him; he could just be imagining it. But if he isn't, there are several reasons why he might have brought it up:

1. To cover his tracks in case you happen to notice something later,
2. He's planning something and is "testing the waters,"
3. He's intentionally checking your reaction—essentially baiting you...

There's plenty more to it. Personally, I would only mention something like this to my partner if I were certain someone was actually pursuing me and it might cause real issues. But based purely on a "feeling" that someone likes me—especially when I have zero interest and don't care about it—I don't see any reason to stir up drama in my life.

It seems to me the guy is just desperate for attention and can't make up his mind which way is up. ☕

lonegardener said:Exactly, and that’s precisely why I value honesty. My point was just that *that kind* of honesty isn't automatically the "foundation" for an "ideal relationship" LOL.

Of course it isn't "better" if it's built on deception. But just because torturing someone is worse than shooting them in the face doesn't mean the latter is actually a good thing. 😬

I don't know, I'm not really fond of using the word "selfish" here. Why call it selfishness? To me, a feeling isn't selfish—actions are. I don't view certain types of jealousy as an "expression of selfishness." It's just a negative emotion resulting from a realization or an insight (or sometimes a delusion). That feeling itself isn't selfish; it only becomes selfish depending on how you choose to act when you feel it.

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬
I'll say it again: the point isn't what you notice, whether you want to or not. The point is your intentions, your plans, and your motives. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively wondering how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a real possibility.

Haha, well, you basically answered your own question. You started this way, and you’re ending it the same way. I’m not saying I’m any smarter than you... I’m just being brutally honest, heh.

Let me reiterate: honesty is one of the fundamental pillars, and without it, nothing works. But on its own? It isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't define things differently—if that's how you see it, then that's your prerogative. For me, though, I define things a bit differently, for better or for worse.

I’ve trimmed this down a bit—don't want us getting too far off track...

When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

lonegardener said:Is it a genuine feeling, or am I just chasing an illusion... xexexe Quote

That’s one (well, two) ingredients in the messy cocktail we call 'love,' but it isn't the only one.

An agnostic, 98% atheist LOL.

Exactly. That's what I mean. You know how it goes: he says, "I'd do anything for you," and she replies, "Then let me go," and he starts stammering, "But... I mean..." 'Anything' my foot, LOL.
So, in those circumstances, truly "letting go" would indeed be the greatest act of love. But if someone thinks they wouldn't feel even a hint of jealousy in that situation, they're basically claiming to be a saint.

Sean Cruz
It’s just human nature to feel pain when you lose someone you love. Heck, we even feel jealousy if that person finds happiness in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying that and labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder."

I find myself wondering the same thing. 🤷 Judging by some folks here (cough), you're supposed to just "understand" that it's all in your head, under your control, your responsibility... and so on. 😬 — and apparently, that should magically make the feeling vanish. Well, maybe it would, but you could also make it disappear with a lobotomy or by getting high. 🤷

You won't. But that's a whole different conversation.

😬 Well, now you're doing exactly what you were questioning two paragraphs ago, haha. Realizing the facts doesn't necessarily kill the nasty feeling. You still need comfort.

🤷 That all comes back to the idea of "something is better than nothing"... which is why I say relationships are mostly logically nonsensical, and perhaps even in every single case. 😈

😬 Honesty alone isn't enough. Not even close. If you tell someone straight to their face that you absolutely despise them, should they be happy because you were being so "honest"? LOL.

I mean, obviously lying isn't "better"—and I definitely prefer being truthful. But that specific kind of "honesty"—the "let's stay together until someone better comes along" variety😬 doesn't exactly strike me as an attractive foundation for a real relationship.

Because if that’s actually how things stand, you have to wonder why you'd even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship" in the first place. 🤷 In a situation like that, "friends with benefits" is probably a much more accurate description, LOL.

It’s neither snow nor swans. 😁

That’s just one—well, two—of the ingredients in the messy concoction they call "love," but it certainly isn't the only one.

There’s also an element of attraction involved, though I suppose that’s a given.

I’m an agnostic—which is basically just a polite way of saying I'm 98% atheist. LOL.

Did you end up taking that spirituality assessment? 🤣 Me too, though I don't fit any of those descriptions.

Letting go would truly be the ultimate act of love under these circumstances. But if anyone honestly believes they wouldn't feel a bitter sting of jealousy in this situation, then they’re clearly giving themselves far too much credit—they're acting like they've got a halo.

Some people claim they can pull that off—they’re probably operating on some "higher" plane than I am. Personally, I don't see myself ever reaching that level. People often label jealousy as mere selfishness, but that logic doesn't hold water for me. At its core, romantic love is inherently selfish. I truly cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not feeling a shred of jealousy when the person they love is with someone else, much less being happy for them about it. 🙄

I find myself wondering the same thing. Judging by some of the people in this thread (cough), you’d think one could just "realize" that everything is happening inside their own head—that it's all under their control, their responsibility, and so on. And then, apparently, that feeling is supposed to just magically vanish. I don't know. Maybe it would disappear, but you’d also get rid of it if you went in for a lobotomy or decided to get high.

I’d honestly rather undergo a lobotomy. 😁

Well, now you’re doing exactly what you were questioning just two paragraphs ago. Honestly. Realizing the cold, hard truth doesn't necessarily have to kill that unpleasant feeling, though I suppose you could still use a little comfort.

Under your definition of "facts," I assume every man—unless he’s blind—is supposed to see it. 😬Sure, he might check out an attractive woman. But why on earth would I go out and cause trouble just because of that? Honestly, what bugs me more is when he stares and I *know* he’s staring, yet he has the nerve to look me in the eye and claim he isn't. It’s that feeling that, in his mind, I’m the only one who exists—as if he can just ignore reality to keep me happy. 🙄 Well, that's exactly what sets me off—literally. 😳

It always comes back to that "better than nothing" mentality. That’s exactly why I argue that relationships are mostly—if not entirely—illogical.

Logically speaking, they make zero sense. But humans have this innate, desperate need to be loved and to feel connected—we’re social animals, after all. Besides, you can't exactly "rationally" perceive love, so logic isn't even part of the equation. 😁

Honesty isn't enough. Not even close. If you look someone straight in the eye and tell them you despise them from the bottom of your soul, should they really be thanking you for your "beautiful transparency"? LOL.

I tend to swing between intense affection and total disdain in the same breath. Usually, I’m pretty upfront about it, too. 🤣 Look, I’ll be blunt: I tend to be brutally honest. Most of the time.

Look, I’m not saying cheating is "better"—honestly, I value sincerity far more than that. But this specific brand of "honesty" where people say, "Let's just stay together until someone better comes along"? That doesn't exactly strike me as a rock-solid foundation for a relationship.

I’m certainly no saint. I might indulge in a little white lie now and then, but for the most part, I’m an open book. To me, honesty is the bedrock of any relationship. It’s actually absurd that you think my "greatest love" started in a way that contradicts your definition of a solid foundation. Honestly, it would have been the romance of the century if we hadn't gone our separate ways. 😬

I mean, if that’s really how things stand, you have to wonder why anyone would even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship." If that's the case, "friends with benefits" is a much more accurate way to put it, LOL.

I’ve never been a fan of the whole "open relationship" concept—in my experience, it’s usually a total mess. I haven't personally ventured down that path, but watching the people around me, it's clear that these arrangements are rarely as "free" as they claim to be. It’s almost never a win-win situation. There is always one person who ends up more emotionally invested, essentially playing the martyr just so the other person can do whatever they want without feeling guilty.