2022 Australian Grand Prix: Melbourne - April 10th

ruggedhawk20 said:Yeah, right... especially Stroll, Latifi, and Mazepin

Why act surprised when it's clearly a joke??

They have F1 licenses; just Google how they actually landed those seats.

This weekend made it incredibly obvious that Red Bull seems to be running on rails—mostly because their race car sits lower and doesn't bounce around nearly as much—whereas Ferrari keeps hitting those bumps and essentially flying down the track. If Ferrari can just iron out these stability issues, I’d argue that the championship battle won't even be a question of "if," but "when." While Red Bull is undeniably fast, Ferrari has absolutely nailed the interpretation of these new regulations. What's even more telling is that they are taking a very calculated, almost unconventional route by introducing upgrades gradually; it shows a massive amount of confidence in the F1-75's potential to dominate the entire season.

While Mercedes spends its time struggling to fix blatant issues with bouncing and general pace, and while Red Bull is preoccupied with maintaining the reliability of their machine, Ferrari will be steadily rolling out performance upgrades. Honestly, everyone else should be genuinely worried about that.

silverviper44 said:How can you say they aren't fighting? They weren't even in the mix when Leclerc had a garbage car, but now that he actually has a decent ride, suddenly everyone's acting surprised.

Look, the only reason they're even in this fight is because the cars are actually competitive right now. If Ferrari were just steamrolling the field, there wouldn't be any battles at all... Max would just be cruising to wins whenever Leclerc isn't out of the race due to some driver error, a mechanical failure, or a disqualification. It's just like how Max would pick up an occasional win back when Mercedes was totally dominating, but he still didn't stand a chance at the title. The whole point is that the fact they're battling proves the cars are neck-and-neck.

And when someone tries to claim Leclerc's results are "all down to the car," they're basically admitting the same thing—that Ferrari is actually a powerhouse right now.

So yeah, that comparison where George Russell - Williams is miles behind George Russell on the Mercedes is completely irrelevant to what's happening this season.

ruggedhawk20 said:What are you even talking about?

Out of three races, his race car broke down in two.

In the one race where it actually held together, he won.

It’s not about how Max handles the car; it’s about how the car handles being pushed.

That's a whole different story...
The car clearly isn't reliable, but the real issue is that Max isn't starting from the position this car is actually capable of hitting.
Because of that, he instinctively ends up overdriving way more than he should if he were starting from PP, which the car can easily grab.
Then, when he starts in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and has to manhandle it just to slice through the field, the car becomes way more vulnerable and prone to issues than if he had just started from the PP it deserves...

cosmicmoose2 said:Having cars that are actually competitive allowed them to fight. If Ferrari were dominant, there wouldn't be any real battles; Max would just pick up wins whenever Leclerc failed to finish due to a mistake, a breakdown, or a disqualification. It’s like how Max grabbed occasional wins back when Mercedes was dominating, yet he still didn't stand a chance at the title. The mere fact they are competing proves the cars are evenly matched.

And when people claim Leclerc's results are "all down to the car," they're essentially admitting that Ferrari is dominant.

So, the comparison where George Russell - Williams is miles behind George Russell at Mercedes doesn't really apply to this season.

If that logic applies to Leclerc, it has to apply to Russell too.

Amen.

cosmicmoose2 said:Is Max driving worse than he did back in 2021? The data seems to suggest so, especially when you look at his qualifying numbers.

This. For the second time.

Besides the fact that Max Verstappen isn't quite performing at last season's level, there's also this:
Is the Ferrari race car finally faster?
Ferrari’s tactical execution was spot on. They did exactly what they needed to do.
Leclerc did exactly what he needed to do on his side. Everything was handled perfectly.

Given Honda's disastrous reliability issues through those first three races, anything other than a massive deficit compared to Leclerc would be a total shock.

silverviper44 said:It really all comes down to who’s driving which race car. George Russell was nowhere to be seen over the last few seasons because he was stuck driving for Williams Racing.Suddenly he’s a hero just because he's driving a Mercedes?

And how is anyone supposed to take you seriously? 😂

What can I even say about this...

It’s honestly a shame to see a world champion—and the youngest one we've ever seen, no less—struggling like this...

silverviper44 said:Why are you even surprised when they're acting totally unhinged??

They have F1 licenses—just Google how they actually landed those jobs.

That’s definitely not how you talk to the President.

swiftmaker12 said:I mean, what is there even to say about this mess...

It’s honestly a shame to see a world champion—and the youngest one ever, no less—completely falling apart like this...

Tibač was clearly having some kind of fever dream about a repeat of Monza 2008. Ask him if you want to hear some nonsense.

If Vettel had just been a bit more patient, he could have landed that seat at Red Bull Racing instead of Alexander Albon. Instead, he rushed things and ended up tripping over his own feet.

Jason Campbell70 said:And why should anyone take you seriously? 😂

It’s not my fault you can't grasp what's being written; maybe find someone to read it out loud and explain it to you.

ruggedhawk20 said:That's no way to talk to the President.

Who exactly is this president, and what is he presiding over?

copperdrifter26 said:In the end, Red Bull Racing took it, wasn't it the best car of the season? And if we are looking back at the Monaco Grand Prix, just how does Max Verstappen's record in Monaco actually look?

2015 - Qualified behind Carlos Sainz (who, if one recalls, was only 0.3s behind Charles Leclerc in qualifying back in 2022). It ended in a DNF following a collision, while Sainz managed to secure points.

Max was ahead of Carlos Sainz and was busy pressuring Romain Grosjean for 10th place. The drivers ahead clashed following Max's somewhat impulsive and impatient attack, which ultimately allowed Carlos Sainz to slip into the points. Mind you, Max was only 17 years old at the time. There were still several years of maturing to come, as you pointed out.

copperdrifter26 said:2016 - Driving the best car in Monaco. He crashes out, while his teammate dominates qualifying. In the race, Max suffers yet another collision, resulting in a DNF, all while Daniel Ricciardo dominates the race (only for Red Bull Racing to seemingly forget how to prepare tires during their pit stops 🤣).

2017 - Finally manages a decent qualifying, but loses out to Daniel Ricciardo in the race (though, truth be told, it was due to strategy, as he certainly had the pace).

2018 - Once again, driving the best car in Monaco. A crash occurs, and his teammate sweeps qualifying. Does that sound like a carbon copy of 2016? Well, it essentially was, with the sole exception being that he actually finished the race this time—though outside the points—while Daniel Ricciardo took the win.

2019 - With the best chassis on the grid, he qualifies 3rd. He finishes the race in 4th, trailing behind Ferrari.

In 2019, Mercedes was absolutely untouchable; they possessed both the superior chassis and the most powerful engine. Max finished the race in 2nd place, only to drop to 4th due to a five-second penalty for an unsafe pit release—an error he wasn't even responsible for. During qualifying that year in Monaco, he was essentially the best of the rest, while his own teammate trailed the pole position sitter by nearly a full second. That should give you some perspective on just how "fast" that car truly was.

copperdrifter26 said:2021 - Qualifies in second place, in the premier car, and finally secures the victory.

Meanwhile, his contemporary Charles Leclerc continues to make the very same mistakes that Max used to make during his teenage years.

copperdrifter26 said:As we can observe from what has been presented, Max Verstappen's recent track record hasn't exactly been stellar, particularly during his time behind the wheel of Newey's Red Bull Racing cars at the Monaco Grand Prix. One has to wonder why there seems to be such a persistent pattern of collisions and DNFs, especially when you consider how Lando Norris is currently dominating the field by consistently securing those coveted pole positions and victories?

Honestly, regardless of whatever references he might have in Monaco, I find myself wondering if there truly exists any driver in all of Formula 1 who could possibly possess a record as poor as Leclerc's when it comes to that particular street circuit? 🤣

Quote: Red Bull advisor Dr Helmut Marko admits that he had anticipated a little more calmness from Max Verstappen after his maiden championship success.

copperdrifter26 said:It all comes down to the fact that he possessed such an extraordinary level of raw talent, coupled with the reality that his father, Jos, was pushing for a direct leap straight into Formula 1 without ever stepping foot in the junior formulas; a proposition that was ultimately accepted only by Helmut Marko and Red Bull Racing, whereas Mercedes simply wasn't interested.

Exceptional talent—that is really the only way to describe it. Even back in his very first season, at just seventeen years old, he was absolutely spectacular in Formula 1. I still find myself drifting back to certain moves he made during that debut year; they were truly something to behold. But then I have to wonder, does anyone actually remember any specific highlights from Leclerc's performances over these last four seasons? It seems to me that nothing particularly stands out anymore; it’s all become rather unremarkable, don't you think?

copperdrifter26 said:It seems to me that one must consider the sheer consistency of Max Verstappen's Red Bull Racing; year after year, they have managed to produce a race car capable of securing pole position on specific circuits—take Monaco, Canada, or Mexico, for instance, where engine power tends to level the playing field and the advantage shifts heavily toward whichever machine generates the most downforce. When one compares this to Charles Leclerc, it appears he only truly possessed such a dominant package back in 2019, does he not? And while he certainly showed flashes of brilliance by being able to contend for a victory at Silverstone last year, we cannot ignore the broader reality that Ferrari was almost always significantly further adrift from the likes of Red Bull Racing or Mercedes than Red Bull was from their rivals during that stretch between 2016 and 2020 when Max secured those various wins.

Ferrari possessed a truly magical engine back in 2019, making them significantly more competitive than Red Bull Racing ever managed to be during that specific era, so I simply cannot see how that argument holds any water. If we look at the facts, who among the Red Bull Racing drivers actually secured victories for the team? Ever since Daniel Ricciardo made his exit, there hasn't been anyone besides Max Verstappen—and even then, Sergio Perez only managed one win last year in Baku because Max suffered a tire failure and Lewis had that inexplicable brain fade involving the magic button. In 2019, both Charles Leclerc and Sebastian Vettel were claiming wins with Ferrari, and the team sat comfortably as the second-fastest car on the grid, which explains why both of them finished behind Max in the driver standings. Is it not worth noting that during that entire season, the second Red Bull Racing driver failed to reach the podium even once? What exactly are we debating here?

copperdrifter26 said:Perhaps he should consider dialing it back just a touch? Or then again, one could argue that Sergio is actually driving significantly better than anyone gives him credit for, though the margin of error seems incredibly slim when you consider how much ground he lost to Ocon during qualifying sessions. Is it truly a matter of raw pace, or simply a question of finding that elusive consistency?

How should one truly define "dominance," I wonder? If we look back at the 2017 qualifying sessions, there was a 13-7 advantage held by Sergio Perez, yet by 2018, Esteban Ocon managed to turn those odds entirely in his own favor. Is it not perhaps premature to draw any definitive conclusions regarding current qualifying form after only three races have passed, with the score currently sitting at 2-1 in favor of Max Verstappen? What remains abundantly clear to me is that Red Bull Racing is still searching for that elusive perfect balance, and they seem quite intent on experimenting with various setups to find it.

copperdrifter26 said:Back in 2015, Sainz was quite rapid in qualifying, holding a 9-8 edge, yet when looking at race finishes where both drivers completed the distance, the tally sat at 6-5 in favor of Sainz. Now, one must consider that Sainz suffered 7 DNFs while Max had 4; and isn't it true that when you are positioned in the middle of the pack like these two, a single instance where you secure fourth or fifth place while your teammate suffers a DNF causes the points gap to widen quite significantly? If we look at Leclerc, he held a 13-9 advantage in qualifying and a 14-7 lead in races where both managed to finish.

But is it truly a 6-5 split when both finished, considering that Verstappen actually secured a placement in China despite not finishing that race due to a gearbox failure? In that specific contest, at the moment of his retirement, he was running in 8th place while Sainz was down in 15th, trailing the American driver by over a minute. This is what happens when one examines results purely on a superficial level, wouldn't you agree? If one were to account for the positions they held relative to one another at the moment of a DNF, rather than just the final classification, the tally would actually favor the eighteen-year-old kid—who had only been karting two years prior and possessed far less experience in heavy racing cars compared to the seasoned Spaniard—by 11-8. And if we look at the most vital category of all, the distinction is stark: 49 points against 18 for Max. How can anyone, after seeing such data, feel any hesitation in questioning the winner of that particular duel?...

copperdrifter26 said:A similar pattern occurred with Leclerc last year, though unlike 2015 where "luck" seemed to side against Sainz, in 2021 it swung heavily in Leclerc's favor; indeed, every time the Ferrari was performing well, Leclerc's results ended tragically (think Monaco, Canada, Sochi, Spa). Even taking all that into account, without a single DNF to his name, Sainz still sits just 5 points ahead. When Binotto mentions that Leclerc lost "some 60 points due to bad luck," does that not speak volumes?

One should perhaps remember that Sainz joined Leclerc's team, and in that very first season, he managed to best him. While luck certainly played its part, by the second half of the season, Leclerc no longer appeared quite so dominant in their intra-team battle.

copperdrifter26 said:If we are playing by those rules, one could argue that Ricciardo beat Max 2-1 over three seasons in terms of total points, yet now Lando Norris is making him look quite amateur for the second year in a row.

We have touched upon this topic before, haven't we? Max joined Red Bull Racing midway through the 2016 season, and the Red Bull car was notoriously unreliable throughout 2017. By 2018, the ratio for Max stood at 15-6 in qualifying and 15-5 in races (and if you look at who was ahead on track during those DNFs, it was 7-2 in favor of Max). Does it not surprise anyone that Ricciardo eventually sought an exit...

copperdrifter26 said:I honestly feel that the driving lessons being shared this year are actually benefiting Leclerc. If you take a look at where Sainz finished behind Max, considering Sainz is arguably a superior driver to Perez, we can draw a very clear parallel regarding which race car was truly faster in South Africa.☕

Oh, he’s sharing them, alright—sharing them in a way that leads him to throw away victories even when he's sitting in the best car on the grid. And as for that notion that Sainz is a better driver than Perez? You might as well believe that the moon is made of green cheese. Haven't we forgotten how Hulkenberg was absolutely outclassing Sainz while they were in the same car back in 2018? Meanwhile, if you look at the head-to-head, Perez holds a 2-1 advantage over Hulkenberg.🥱

stormybadger8 said:That’s the second pair of shoes...
The race car clearly isn't reliable enough, but the real issue is that Max isn't starting from the position this car is actually capable of achieving.
Because of that, he ends up having to push the car way harder than he should have to if he were starting from pole position, which this car can easily grab.
Then, once he starts from 2nd, 3rd, or 5th and has to fight through the field, the car becomes much more vulnerable and prone to issues than it would be if he just started from the pole position it deserves...

He might have messed up qualifying, but he drove a solid race. If it weren't for the mechanical failures, he would've finished 2-1-2. He drove well in Australia too, even holding his own considering the team mentioned their setup was eating up the tires.

If Max 2015 was better than Sainz based on that 49-18 record, then by those numbers, Perez is actually better than him this season at 30-25.

Raymond Anderson4 said:if it wasn't for...

In Formula 1, there is always some "if it wasn't for..." scenario.

James Harris34 said:If we consider that if Max 2015 was actually better than Sainz, then by those same standards, Perez is currently outperforming him at 30-25.

That isn't quite right, is it? But I suppose if one truly has nothing substantive or intelligent to contribute to the conversation, perhaps it would be more prudent to remain silent altogether. 🙄

Raymond Anderson4 said:Maybe he messed up qualifying, but he drove a solid race. If it wasn't for the mechanical failures, he would've walked away with a 2-1-2. He handled Australia well, too, especially considering the team admitted their setup was absolutely shredding the tires.

It’s damn hard to drive a race when you blow it in qualifying. You end up pushing the car way past its actual limits just to keep up, and then you start risking mechanical failures...
And oh look, lo and behold, Max Verstappen had to DNF because of reliability issues. I mean, seriously? How does that even happen?

When you qualify 2, 3, or 5 spots behind where you actually belong, you're stuck driving on the gearbox of whoever is in front of you. Then—surprise, surprise—the whole car overheats, and oh look, the engine dies because it got too hot, or some other component catches fire from the heat...

Red Bull Racing—basically Adrian Newey’s project—has always had this philosophy of building the lightest, skinniest car possible. It's built to grab a pole and fly when it has clean air, but it’s designed so tightly that the cooling is barely adequate as it is. The second you get stuck in traffic, boom—you've got a hundred different problems on your hands.

Dr Helmut Marko says that he expected Max Verstappen to be a bit more composed following his first championship win, noting that he tends to push beyond the limit and feels intense pressure during qualifying. He suggests this might be why he messed up that final corner in qualifying and made a similar mistake during the race, which completely destroyed his front tires:

Red Bull advisor Dr Helmut Marko admits that He Had anticipated a Little more calmness fra Max Verstappen after his Maiden championship success -> Quote

Consequently, Dr Marko suggests that another World Titl May be The calming influence The Dutchman needs during races. “He goes over the limit – he wants too much,” Dr Marko said.
“That didn’t work out here in the last sector. We thought that with the world championship title there would be some calmness from him, but he probably needs another title so that he doesn’t go into qualifying with so much pressure.”

silverviper44 said:I am not responsible if you can't grasp what's being written here. Maybe find someone to read it out loud and explain it to you.

If you want your life to be better and more successful—not just your presence on this forum, but in the real world too—I suggest you take the excellent advice found in one of the posts above;

If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, perhaps it is better to stay silent.

End quote.

hiddensailor7 said:Dr Helmut Marko says that he expected more calmness from Max Verstappen after winning the title, noting that he drives right at the limit and feels the pressure during qualifying. He suggests that's why he messed up that final corner in qualifying, much like the mistake that caused him to completely shred his front tires during the race:

Helmut Marko, despite being a bit of a clown most of the time, is actually stating the obvious this time around.
Max Verstappen isn't quite where he needs to be, especially if he wants to contend with those faster Ferraris.