BAT Kol and alternative moderation

Answering the call from the OP, so here’s my two cents on this whole thing.😁

I won't get too deep into the weeds since Elizabeth Jackson already laid it all out perfectly. I'm just going to hammer home the fact that Bat Kol is absolutely the wrong person to moderate Alternative. It's not just that they have zero interest in the topic—they are an outspoken opponent of it.

If we want to talk politics—since I see some people dragging Hitler and the "final solution" into this anyway—this situation is basically like an occupation. An occupier never wants the occupied territory to develop its own autonomy; their whole goal is to mold it into whatever they want it to be.

Take Fish1968, the Astrology moderator. That is exactly what a mod should be: someone who actually knows their stuff and helps educate the community. In that section, I’ve never seen anyone constantly trolling or trying to convince everyone that astrology is total garbage. But over on Alternative? The moderator is doing exactly that!

So, here's my message to the supermods: strip Bat Kol of their current position and put Elizabeth Jackson in charge instead.

fadedgull42 As stated by:
Since the thread starter put out the call, I figured I’d step up and throw my two cents into the ring with a full-blown commentary of my own.😁

Did he actually sit down and write exactly what you need him to write?

fadedgull42 Asks:
So, that's why, Listen, I’ve got a message for the supermoderators here, and I mean it: I am formally proposing that we remove Carol Lopez23 from her current position immediately, and instead, we should put Elizabeth Jackson in that spot.

🤦
And let me tell you something else: if anyone out there has the nerve to go on a rant about how meat-eaters are nothing more than bottom-feeding scavengers, or if they start typing away about how we’re all being sprayed daily by Chemtrails—regardless of who’s doing it, why they're doing it, or what the motive is—they’re getting an immediate partial ban. Period.

Alright, look.
So, here’s the deal. Things have escalated quite a bit, and honestly, we can't really go back and fix what's already happened, but I guess the silver lining with this whole appeal is that moving forward, both the Alternative moderators and—if the mods don't step up regarding rule violations and stuff—me as a supermoderator, will be able to jump in sooner to stop this kind of mess from happening again.

In this entire appeal, I think both sides actually have valid points in certain areas, but they're also both wrong in others. As I kept digging through the thread and reading the actual appeal to make sure I knew exactly what was going on, I came to the conclusion that the whole situation was just poorly moderated. The biggest blunder made here by moderator Carol Lopez23, who is the main focus of this appeal, was inconsistent moderation. I actually warned Carol Lopez23 about this uneven approach before, and I suspect this kind of thing happens because a moderator tries to "play both sides" or give one side a pass here and the other there just to try and be fair with warnings, but it ended up doing the exact opposite. Like, some posts that definitely deserved a warning slipped right through, while other people got flagged for things that probably didn't even warrant it.
I mean, obviously, posts like 'your mom is an idiot' or 'where are you losers' and stuff like that shouldn't be allowed to slide without a warning, because those are straight-up insults, and we can't tolerate that from anyone, regardless of how a moderator might feel about keeping the subforum from becoming too sterile.

At the same time, the users getting involved in these kinds of threads were, to put it mildly, taking advantage of that lax moderation style. I actually warned the moderators a few months back that the standards needed to be tightened up.

Anyway, let me wrap this up so we aren't just spinning our wheels and dragging this out forever. The moderator in question has spoken and clarified a few things, and I’ve had a talk with them about the whole situation. I'm posting this publicly now so you all can see it; I don't want anyone thinking this thread is just being shut down without a proper explanation or feeling ignored.

As a supermod, I don't think Carol Lopez23 needs to be stripped of their moderator status over this, but I do think it would be a good move for the Alternative section to have another moderator join Carol Lopez23 and Ryan Gomez4. I'll be talking to them about it in my capacity as supermod to figure out what's best for the subforum right now.

northernpilot2, personally, I think the idea of Alternative getting another moderator alongside bat and Ryan Gomez4 is a solid one. That being said, I want to emphasize and kindly ask that we look for someone who genuinely cares about this field—someone with actual knowledge, hard facts, and real-world experience. We need someone who, through their deep understanding of the subject, will be eager to help other members, share insights, swap advice, and actively engage in discussions , much like how Ryan Gomez4 used to do.
In my view, she did an excellent job and absolutely should continue her work precisely because she knows so much, lives this lifestyle, and was always right there in the thick of things, helping everyone out.
As for Carol Lopez23, I’ve already said everything I have to say on the matter and I'm sticking to it, though I’ll certainly respect your decision since there isn't much I can do to change it 😉. My hope is that the situation over at Alternative will finally start looking up.

If I could make one more suggestion, it would be to issue partial bans to those members who have been constantly and visibly provoking people or trolling the raw food and Chemtrails threads without ever contributing anything else useful. They haven't provided a single constructive post to any of these topics , which I assume you could verify yourself just by glancing at their posting history.
Specifically, I’m thinking of the user briskbison55.

I’ve been following this raw food thread for a few years now. Back in the day, the vibe here was actually great—just a massive dump of useful tips and deep dives from people who had already made the jump to raw food. I even started sneaking a bunch of those delicious recipes into my regular diet...
Lately, though, I’ve been avoiding the whole thread because it’s become totally toxic. It’s pretty obvious that most of the regulars who used to post have gone quiet, and honestly, there aren't even many newcomers showing up anymore.

It used to be this sanctuary where people on a standard American diet would come looking for guidance on how to transition to raw food. You had folks like Elizabeth Jackson, Marec, and more recently Jason Grant, just dropping knowledge and sharing their life experiences because they genuinely wanted to help. It was all about mutual support, staying positive, and cheering each other on.

Given the atmosphere here lately, I’m not surprised the newbies stay away. You can’t even post a simple raw recipe or share some good news about recovering through raw food without some troll jumping in immediately to belittle everything you wrote and argue for the sake of arguing. It happens constantly... especially after almost every single one of Elizabeth Jackson's posts regarding actual positive stories from people living the raw lifestyle. It’s just exhausting, and frankly, I don't have the energy to keep reading it.

briskbison55 has basically nuked the thread, especially with Carol Lopez23 being allowed to moderate so poorly—it's completely ruined the Alternative scene here. I really hope they follow through with bringing on a third moderator, but they absolutely need to pick someone from the Alternative circles.

I’m standing with Elizabeth Jackson—honestly, most of these forum rules don't make any sense anyway.
You try to step up and present a legitimate argument, only to be met with a swarm of on-duty trolls trying to insult you and tear down your credibility.
The link in my signature serves as further proof of this nonsense.

Peter Peterson said:I’m standing with Elizabeth Jackson—honestly, most of these forum rules don't make any sense anyway.
You try to step up and present a legitimate argument, only to be met with a swarm of on-duty trolls trying to insult you and tear down your credibility.
The link in my signature serves as further proof of this nonsense.

Cheers. I won't interfere with your activities, but I just wanted to send my regards and let you know you've earned some credit over at natural science.

Zachary Mendoza2 said:Cheers. I won't interfere with your activities, but I just wanted to send my regards and let you know you've earned some credit over at natural science.

Honestly, who cares? That whole "natural science" nonsense isn't even worth a footnote in a local history book.

Gary Cox2 said:What are you even aiming at here? The vaccination thread?
Vaccinations are mandatory in the US, and that topic should be handled as such. Sure, you can have an opinion, but calling for people to skip their shots should be treated like calling for someone to break the law. That needs to be sanctioned immediately, right from the jump..

But I’m definitely not backing the constant spamming of topics like raw food, sunbathing, or liver cleanses (lol).. Who does that actually hurt? Society? The whole damn country? Some random guy on this forum? If someone wants to live on raw food, stare at the sun, and eventually wreck their own health, fine, let them. Who cares..
It’s not like we hold debates or write entire manifestos on how smoking is bad in the cigarette threads, regardless of all the "proven facts and logic"—even though it is. Instead, people just swap stories about which brand of tobacco is smoother or which one to buy..

Look, it's obvious that you "alternative" types are posting total nonsense, so I'm feeling a bit 🤷 about you being a moderator for this PDF.. I'm trying to imagine an astrology group run by someone who falls for Facebook horoscope scams, or a pet forum moderated by someone who wouldn't even let an animal through their front door..

Are you being serious right now? These people are literally typing out that science and medicine are just slaves to big corporations, and that we should avoid them because everything can be cured using 'their' specific methods. Everything from vaccines to raw food to Chemtrails.

Look, it’s pretty obvious to me that you're getting fed nonsense by the Alternative crowd, so I guess I feel a little 🤷 about you being a moderator for this PDF... I mean, I try to imagine astrology being led by someone who follows horoscopes on Facebook, or pet moderation being handled by someone who wouldn't even let an animal in their house...

And when did "Alternative" become such a crazy term for just mindless babbling without any actual basis? These aren't "alternative" thinkers; they're just people denying reality. You tell them that vaccines almost wiped out diseases that were lethal until very recently, and they—in their "alternative" way—ask where you got those claims, even though official statistics from every major organization have stated it a million times over.

Elizabeth Jackson said:northernpilot2, personally, I think the idea of Alternative getting another moderator alongside bat and Ryan Gomez4 is a solid one. That being said, I want to emphasize and kindly ask that we look for someone who genuinely cares about this field—someone with actual knowledge, hard facts, and real-world experience. We need someone who, through their deep understanding of the subject, will be eager to help other members, share insights, swap advice, and actively engage in discussions , much like how Ryan Gomez4 used to do.
In my view, she did an excellent job and absolutely should continue her work precisely because she knows so much, lives this lifestyle, and was always right there in the thick of things, helping everyone out.
As for Carol Lopez23, I’ve already said everything I have to say on the matter and I'm sticking to it, though I’ll certainly respect your decision since there isn't much I can do to change it 😉. My hope is that the situation over at Alternative will finally start looking up.

If I could make one more suggestion, it would be to issue partial bans to those members who have been constantly and visibly provoking people or trolling the raw food and Chemtrails threads without ever contributing anything else useful. They haven't provided a single constructive post to any of these topics , which I assume you could verify yourself just by glancing at their posting history.
Specifically, I’m thinking of the user briskbison55.

northernpilot2, this weirdo won't stop bringing me up, and honestly, the way he writes here is exactly how he is in the Alternative group—zero substance, just endless litanies about people he disagrees with. It's all twisting words, planting ideas, blatant lies, and just repeating what others said to others like some kind of broken record. And this "constructiveness" he's whining about basically boils down to his eternal question: why are you asking me questions instead of proving me wrong with arguments? That is the textbook definition of trolling and destroying any meaningful communication, which he would totally ignore if his mouth wasn't so full of me and my posts all the time.

Linda Harris44 said:I’ve been following this raw food thread for a few years now. Back in the day, the vibe here was actually great—just a massive dump of useful tips and deep dives from people who had already made the jump to raw food. I even started sneaking a bunch of those delicious recipes into my regular diet...
Lately, though, I’ve been avoiding the whole thread because it’s become totally toxic. It’s pretty obvious that most of the regulars who used to post have gone quiet, and honestly, there aren't even many newcomers showing up anymore.

It used to be this sanctuary where people on a standard American diet would come looking for guidance on how to transition to raw food. You had folks like Elizabeth Jackson, Marec, and more recently Jason Grant, just dropping knowledge and sharing their life experiences because they genuinely wanted to help. It was all about mutual support, staying positive, and cheering each other on.

Given the atmosphere here lately, I’m not surprised the newbies stay away. You can’t even post a simple raw recipe or share some good news about recovering through raw food without some troll jumping in immediately to belittle everything you wrote and argue for the sake of arguing. It happens constantly... especially after almost every single one of Elizabeth Jackson's posts regarding actual positive stories from people living the raw lifestyle. It’s just exhausting, and frankly, I don't have the energy to keep reading it.

briskbison55 has basically nuked the thread, especially with Carol Lopez23 being allowed to moderate so poorly—it's completely ruined the Alternative scene here. I really hope they follow through with bringing on a third moderator, but they absolutely need to pick someone from the Alternative circles.

Honestly, it's just laziness. There isn't a single post like that here. People just warn you when you try to label something as raw food that actually has about as much in common with raw food as roasted peanuts do (or in this case, cocoa).

briskbison55 said:Are you being serious right now? These people are literally typing out that science and medicine are just slaves to big corporations, and that we should avoid them because everything can be cured using 'their' specific methods. Everything from vaccines to raw food to Chemtrails.

Look, it’s pretty obvious to me that you're getting fed nonsense by the Alternative crowd, so I guess I feel a little 🤷 about you being a moderator for this PDF... I mean, I try to imagine astrology being led by someone who follows horoscopes on Facebook, or pet moderation being handled by someone who wouldn't even let an animal in their house...

And when did "Alternative" become such a crazy term for just mindless babbling without any actual basis? These aren't "alternative" thinkers; they're just people denying reality. You tell them that vaccines almost wiped out diseases that were lethal until very recently, and they—in their "alternative" way—ask where you got those claims, even though official statistics from every major organization have stated it a million times over.

northernpilot2, this weirdo won't stop bringing me up, and honestly, the way he writes here is exactly how he is in the Alternative group—zero substance, just endless litanies about people he disagrees with. It's all twisting words, planting ideas, blatant lies, and just repeating what others said to others like some kind of broken record. And this "constructiveness" he's whining about basically boils down to his eternal question: why are you asking me questions instead of proving me wrong with arguments? That is the textbook definition of trolling and destroying any meaningful communication, which he would totally ignore if his mouth wasn't so full of me and my posts all the time.

That bolded part applies to you first, considering how you attack other users both here and over on the Alternative board. You don't have a single constructive post there; it's just a pile of insults and denials. I used to post on the raw food thread all the time, but lately, I only show up here out of pure obligation, for the exact same reason as the user you quoted.

Why do you even care if it's raw or not? You're clearly not a raw food fanatic, let alone a hardcore purist.

It's obvious that BAT kolo is biased and keeps letting trolls run wild because it suits them to bury any discussion about raw food under a sea of spam.

And if you listen to what the doctor says, it’s pretty clear why they don't want people treating themselves with raw food.

Get him out of here immediately.

briskbison55 said:Are you being serious right now? These people are literally typing out that science and medicine are just slaves to big corporations, and that we should avoid them because everything can be cured using 'their' specific methods. Everything from vaccines to raw food to Chemtrails.

Look, it’s pretty obvious to me that you're getting fed nonsense by the Alternative crowd, so I guess I feel a little 🤷 about you being a moderator for this PDF... I mean, I try to imagine astrology being led by someone who follows horoscopes on Facebook, or pet moderation being handled by someone who wouldn't even let an animal in their house...

And when did "Alternative" become such a crazy term for just mindless babbling without any actual basis? These aren't "alternative" thinkers; they're just people denying reality. You tell them that vaccines almost wiped out diseases that were lethal until very recently, and they—in their "alternative" way—ask where you got those claims, even though official statistics from every major organization have stated it a million times over.

northernpilot2, this weirdo won't stop bringing me up, and honestly, the way he writes here is exactly how he is in the Alternative group—zero substance, just endless litanies about people he disagrees with. It's all twisting words, planting ideas, blatant lies, and just repeating what others said to others like some kind of broken record. And this "constructiveness" he's whining about basically boils down to his eternal question: why are you asking me questions instead of proving me wrong with arguments? That is the textbook definition of trolling and destroying any meaningful communication, which he would totally ignore if his mouth wasn't so full of me and my posts all the time.

Yeah, I'm dead serious... why are you dragging vaccination into this? I already gave my take on vaccines. The topic of vaccines isn't the same thing as raw food, not by a long shot.

Since when is it your business if someone wants to live on raw food or stare at the sun? How does that actually affect you, me, or anyone else for that matter?

Look, either shut down that PDF or leave it alone. But if it exists, then "Alternative" folks should be allowed their space there, instead of being "targeted on a daily basis" by people who just want to call them idiots, primitives, or frauds.

Ryan Gomez4 said:That bolded part applies to you first, considering how you attack other users both here and over on the Alternative board. You don't have a single constructive post there; it's just a pile of insults and denials. I used to post on the raw food thread all the time, but lately, I only show up here out of pure obligation, for the exact same reason as the user you quoted.

Why do you even care if it's raw or not? You're clearly not a raw food fanatic, let alone a hardcore purist.

Could you then, as a moderator, actually give me an example of these supposed insults? Like, where did I call someone an animal or mentally challenged or something? I honestly don't know what counts as a "constructive post" to you. I’m interested in actual claims, and obviously, an answer like "just try it for seven days and you'll see" isn't enough for me. Also, I did write that more than half of my veggies are raw, but that certain things—like broccoli or green beans, for instance—should probably be cooked, and I explained why. Isn't that a discussion? And just to remind you, on that specific post, I got comments like, "Look at this troll claiming broccoli is dangerous" and stuff like that.

If this thread is actually just about recipes and personal beliefs, then just rename it, because I definitely won't have anything to say in a recipe thread.

Gary Cox2 said:Yeah, I'm dead serious... why are you dragging vaccination into this? I already gave my take on vaccines. The topic of vaccines isn't the same thing as raw food, not by a long shot.

Since when is it your business if someone wants to live on raw food or stare at the sun? How does that actually affect you, me, or anyone else for that matter?

Look, either shut down that PDF or leave it alone. But if it exists, then "Alternative" folks should be allowed their space there, instead of being "targeted on a daily basis" by people who just want to call them idiots, primitives, or frauds.

It’s just because Elizabeth Jackson keeps calling me out for the exact same stuff across those three threads, and it's all the same logic—it feels identical to what's happening here.

Why do you even care if someone decides to live on raw food or wants to stare at the sun? How does that actually affect you, or me, or anyone else?

And why does it matter to you that I have my own opinion on things? Maybe I have reasons, maybe it affects people, I guess. Some people want to stare at the sun or eat raw food, fine, but if the next step is declaring those topics "protected zones" on a forum that's literally built for discussion? On Alternative, you have people posting about metastases and asking where they can buy hemp oil because they "heard" good things.

I mean, either close that PDF or just leave it be... but if it exists, then the "Alternative" crowd should probably have freedom there, instead of having to deal with being called idiots or primitives or frauds on a daily basis..

Well, Elizabeth Jackson and a few others use those kinds of labels for anyone who dares to ask where their claims are coming from. But yeah, I think if a rule gets made saying an "Alternative" person can't ask questions on this forum, it's basically just proof that those people aren't capable of having an actual, reasoned conversation.

There’s a huge difference between asking a question and demanding research papers and proof after every single post. When you keep repeating the same thing over and over, it stops being a question and starts being trolling. And honestly, if someone wants advice on hemp oil, they'll get expert tips on this forum way faster than anywhere else. You clearly have no clue about this topic, yet you still managed to be insulting—don't forget, you basically called all of us posting there junkies.

Carol Lopez23 said:

Sophia Ramos5 As stated by:
It appears to me that Carol Lopez23 is exhibiting a significant amount of bias in their role as moderator. I recall seeing a post where Ryan Gomez4 mentioned being a medical professional by trade, arguing that someone in that position should not be overseeing an alternative health discussion. Given our current focus on raw food, and considering how certain trolls are permitted to incessantly pollute this thread with their irrational outbursts without facing any repercussions, it seems quite clear that they ought to be barred from moderating any discussions regarding alternative medicine.

If a physician were to actually admit that an alternative approach holds any merit, they would essentially be spitting in their own face.
It seems as though absolutely no one is putting in any effort at all.

The discussion regarding raw food has become quite cluttered, and I believe it is high time we implement a formal poll to decide which specific posts should be removed to restore the integrity of the topic. It would be most prudent to prohibit trolls from accessing the thread entirely. Furthermore, to prevent bad actors from simply creating multiple accounts to skew the results, we should restrict voting privileges to those members who have been part of our community for at least a few months and have contributed a meaningful number of posts.

The individuals who consistently engage in polluting this discussion thread are:

It appears that Biljka112 and briskbison55 have entered the conversation, much like two seasoned observers stepping onto the stage of a grand theater to offer their unique perspectives on the unfolding drama.

I would be most grateful if the rest of you could kindly offer some suggestions...

It appears you have completely missed the mark on this one.

Is the act of derailing a discussion merely an attempt to undermine the core idea that we are all being treated like mindless sheep? Inferior, dull-witted, and nothing more than obedient little sheep.?

Elizabeth Cruz As stated by:
I find myself wondering exactly how much longer posts like these from moderators will be tolerated on the alternative boards without any disciplinary action being taken.

What exactly constitutes a valid reason for dismissal in this particular situation?

Gary Cox2 As stated by:
If someone chooses to live on a strict diet of raw food and spends their time sharing recipes with like-minded individuals in their own little community, then I truly don't see why anyone should care.
It seems to me that those who embrace the alternative lifestyle shouldn't be categorized under the umbrella of PDF health; rather, I believe we ought to provide those who have adopted this way of life as their daily standard a more comfortable corner within our community to call home.
If someone truly believes that those white streaks stretching across the sky are Chemtrails, I have to say, it’s quite laughable. One might wonder, what actual harm could such a phenomenon possibly be inflicting upon us? It seems to me that there are certain groups of people who would just as easily believe in Bigfoot or maintain that they possess the mental fortitude to move entire mountain ranges through sheer willpower alone.

It seems that no one is actually criticizing the lifestyle or the specific philosophy that such a choice is the most beneficial path for an individual—and I am speaking exclusively regarding the topic of raw food.

Gary Cox2 As stated by:
Allowing alternative viewpoints to be belittled or mocked on an alternative platform simply because their reasoning doesn't align with mainstream medicine is something I cannot support. After all, this is an alternative site; one should naturally expect perspectives that diverge from standard medical consensus..

However, presenting these views as universal truths—and positioning them as being contra to established science and medicine—is no longer merely a matter of ideology or personal choice; it carries implications for society as a whole. Rejecting proven facts, logic, and fundamental biology in favor of promoting paranoid ideas, which leads to the spread of disease and ultimately the proliferation of falsehoods, is something that cannot and must not be allowed to fly "under the radar."

So, what you're saying is it’s best if there is no opposing side at all, right?

No problem. Direct insults haven't been tolerated before either, but let's define exactly what we mean so everyone can see.
In other words, should I censor terms like nonsense, stupidity, or foolishness...? Or various insinuations regarding someone's health, competence, or intellect? I ask, purely so that the anti-vax, raw food, PROchemtrails, and similar crowds don't go wild clicking those report buttons.

Buddy, you've been missing the point your entire life.

Stop pivoting away from the topic. You tolerate a sea of trolls just so the actual truthful posts get buried. If you think people getting cured of cancer through raw food is just some delayed effect of modern medicine, you're delusional.

We all know what your real purpose is here. If you aren't contributing anything useful anymore, just be cool and step down from the forum. At least then you wouldn't have to deal with the guilt.

I’m actually going to ask the supermoderators to install a plugin so I can add mods like you to my ignore list. Don't take it personally—this is a conflict between Alternative approaches and mainstream medicine, and you're clearly biased.

supermod, pin a poll to the top so we can finally get rid of bat kolo and the raw food nonsense.

briskbison55 said:It’s just because Elizabeth Jackson keeps calling me out for the exact same stuff across those three threads, and it's all the same logic—it feels identical to what's happening here.

Why do you even care if someone decides to live on raw food or wants to stare at the sun? How does that actually affect you, or me, or anyone else?

And why does it matter to you that I have my own opinion on things? Maybe I have reasons, maybe it affects people, I guess. Some people want to stare at the sun or eat raw food, fine, but if the next step is declaring those topics "protected zones" on a forum that's literally built for discussion? On Alternative, you have people posting about metastases and asking where they can buy hemp oil because they "heard" good things.

I mean, either close that PDF or just leave it be... but if it exists, then the "Alternative" crowd should probably have freedom there, instead of having to deal with being called idiots or primitives or frauds on a daily basis..

Well, Elizabeth Jackson and a few others use those kinds of labels for anyone who dares to ask where their claims are coming from. But yeah, I think if a rule gets made saying an "Alternative" person can't ask questions on this forum, it's basically just proof that those people aren't capable of having an actual, reasoned conversation.

Maybe you’d actually bother posting or asking questions over on Alternative if the vibe wasn't so toxic and there wasn't some resident troll constantly breathing down everyone's necks..

Maybe I have a reason, maybe I'm bothering someone.

Please, tell me—how exactly does Pero Pero, who runs out to stare at the sun right after eating some raw food, threaten you or anyone else on this planet?

Actually, don't bother. No apologies needed... I just stated an opinion. Any more circling back or going in loops is just clogging up the thread for nothing..

Sophia Ramos5 said:It's obvious that BAT kolo is biased and keeps letting trolls run wild because it suits them to bury any discussion about raw food under a sea of spam.

And if you listen to what the doctor says, it’s pretty clear why they don't want people treating themselves with raw food.

Get him out of here immediately.

To put it bluntly, this is the quintessential essence of these "alternative groups." One might just call it organized trolling.

Elizabeth Jackson—there is simply no point in us dissecting these posts all over again. It is obvious to you that we will remain at an impasse, and that every response to a response will merely perpetuate the exact same arguments already presented. I have no desire to repeat myself, as I have already laid out my position clearly.