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Overrated sports icons?

Started by Raymond Anderson4 · · 👁 11 views · 164 replies

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darkjackal70 darkjackal70 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2024
#161 ·
Jason Fisher78 As rowdytinker3 points out:
It’s quite predictable. Americans have this insatiable hunger for an "all-American hero," and back when the NBA was aggressively expanding, someone decided he would be that icon—and they succeeded. I am not suggesting he wasn't a talented player, but his god-like status was a masterpiece of marketing rather than pure basketball merit. His PR machine was relentless, starting with those gold chains at the Slam Dunk Contest and never letting up. The media treated his every move as if it were the action of a superhuman, even though other players were doing the exact same things; they just weren't operating under a microscope. Then there was the constant narrative that he could win a championship anywhere, a theory we saw play out extensively in Washington, D.C. If he hadn't had Scottie Pippen by his side, and if he hadn't been granted privileges unlike anyone else in NBA history before he had even proven himself as more than just above average, he wouldn't be holding all those trophies. He likely would have ended up in that tier of highly skilled players who, due to poor surroundings, achieved little despite impressive individual stats—players like Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, or Clyde Drexler.

The media machine operates in predictable cycles; you saw it clearly when Michael Jordan stepped away. They felt an urgent need to manufacture a successor—someone who could fill the void, yet inevitably lacked his greatness—leading to a long string of "Baby Jordans" before we finally landed on the era of Kobe Bryant. It was a messy transition, especially considering how Shaq’s statistical dominance often overshadowed the actual flow of play. Just imagine if Shaq had played more like Dennis Rodman, relentlessly vacuuming up every rebound just to feed Kobe. And don't even get me started on those tactical maneuvers by Steve Kerr or that legendary performance by Toni Kukoč against the Utah Jazz. Without those specific contributions, those championship rings and the massive stardom wouldn't exist. Once Kobe became too much of a liability for the narrative, they simply pivoted to LeBron James. I'm not suggesting Kobe wasn't elite; I'm saying the media plays a very calculated role in shaping these legacies.

I find myself wondering exactly what metrics one would use to argue that Michael Jordan holds any true superiority over someone like Bill Russell.

What an absolute mountain of unadulterated bullshit this whole mess is.🤣

Someone once made the observation that he had to be the one to pull it off, and sure enough, he was. But honestly? He should probably just go find some professional help and step away from the spotlight for a while.☕

If he had only managed one or maybe two championships just by being lucky, I might listen, but he has six. He’s got NCAA titles, a mountain of awards, and medals to boot. There is undeniable proof of him delivering in those high-stakes moments when none of the players you're listing could step up. Yet, you still have the nerve to claim he’s overrated, arguing that his success was merely the byproduct of having Scottie Pippen by his side. You seem to forget that while Toni Kukoč had that one standout performance, it was the man himself who secured the title in that final game—the one involving that stolen ball and the decisive basket. Not to mention that earlier game where he played through nearly 40 degrees of heat, putting up a performance unlike anything we've ever seen to secure the win. And then there's the argument that the NBA was just expanding at the time... honestly, give me a break.😂😂

Comparing him to Bill Russell is like comparing apples to oranges. Trying to weigh fifty or sixty years of NBA history against the specific era of the nineties is just absurd. Everyone already consensus-agreed that Michael Jordan was the greatest player to ever step onto a court, yet there’s always some random guy popping up out of nowhere just to act like he's got a grudge and start talking nonsense. Just like you.

God... damn.🙏🙏
rowdytinker3 rowdytinker3 Member
44 messages
joined May 2023
#162 ·
Jason Fisher78 said:Typical. Americans always need an all-American hero. The NBA was expanding back then, so someone decided he’d be the guy, and he played the part. I’m not saying he wasn't a good player, but his god-like status was manufactured by marketing, not just pure talent. His PR was top-tier right from the jump—starting with those gold chains at the dunk contest and just rolling with it. The media treated every single move he made like it was some superhuman feat, even though plenty of other players were doing the exact same thing; they just weren't under a microscope. Then there was all that talk about him leaving to win a title elsewhere, and we saw how that played out with the Washington Wizards. If he hadn't had Scottie Pippen and the insane level of authority he was given—which nobody else in the NBA ever got, even before he proved he was more than just average—he would’ve ended up with nothing. He’d just be ranked alongside those solid guys who couldn't win anything because their supporting casts were garbage, despite having great stats, like Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, or Clyde Drexler.

You see how the media operates when you look at when Michael Jordan left. They had to urgently manufacture a successor (someone who was still inferior to Michael Jordan), leading to a whole string of "Baby Jordans" until we finally ended up with Kobe Bryant, who ran into massive statistical hurdles because of Shaquille O'Neal. Imagine if Shaq had been like Dennis Rodman, grabbing every board and feeding Kobe. And don't even get me started on Steve Kerr's luck or Toni Kukoč's legendary game against the Utah Jazz. Without them, there wouldn't have been any rings or this much fame. Once Kobe became too much of a liability, they swapped him out for LeBron James and so on. I'm not saying Kobe isn't better, but the media definitely plays a role.

I honestly just want to know what makes Jordan better than, say, Bill Russell.

Jesus Christ, what a pile of garbage. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. A "good basketball player"?🤣
If he’s just a "good player," then who the hell is a phenomenal one in your book?

Second off, Jordan in Washington? The guy came back to play and you actually expect him to go grab a title with that group of losers on the Wizards when he was 40 years old?🤣 That’s why he’s overrated.🤣
But sure, obviously Scottie Pippen is the sole reason for all those Bulls titles.🙏
I guess Pippen probably stole the ball from Karl Malone in Game 6 of the '98 Finals, broke Bill Russell's leg, and sank the winning shot in the final seconds. Just giving you an example. I have no idea how Malone supposedly had a "weaker environment" than Jordan. Didn't he actually have two chances to beat him, only to hit the rim? How does that work? Must be Pippen's fault. Jordan actually had heavy hitters around him. Buechler, Kerr, Sean Wennington, Longley, Rodney Harper, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoč... basically a bunch of Hall of Famers.🤣

"Imagine if Shaq grabbed all the boards"... well, didn't he?🤣

I don't even follow this nonsense you're spewing about Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, and LeBron James. It sounds like you're getting lost in your own delusions.

I guarantee you right now, Michael Jordan would absolutely smoke Bill Russell 1-on-1.☕
Maria Nelson12 Maria Nelson12 Member
37 messages
joined Aug 2010
#163 ·
darkjackal70 said:I mean, comparing him to Bill Russell is basically like comparing apples to oranges... trying to weigh the NBA from 50 or 60 years ago against how Basketball was played in the 90s is just ridiculous. I guess everyone pretty much agrees Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever step onto a court, but there’s always going to be some random guy out there who just happens to dislike him and decides to act all high and mighty about it... kind of like you are...

😂 It’s honestly hilarious when some smart-aleck kid like you shows up acting all aggressive, thinking you’ve mastered every basketball book ever written and probably rule the local park courts, so you feel the need to lecture everyone. Just chill out, kid... you'll get there when you grow up. 🙂
darkjackal70 darkjackal70 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2024
#164 ·
Jason Fisher78 said:To be honest, the whole of Formula 1 is just one massive, overrated mess. ☕

Ever since the drivers started being protected like they’re precious cargo, Formula 1 has become incredibly overhyped... it was much more intense twenty or thirty years ago when there was actual risk involved.🤣
Maria Nelson12 Maria Nelson12 Member
37 messages
joined Aug 2010
#165 ·
rowdytinker3 said:Good grief, what an absolute pile of garbage. You honestly have no clue what you're talking about. A good basketball player? Please.🤣
If you think he's just a decent basketball player, then who exactly do you consider to be a phenomenal one, I guess?

Second thing—Chicago in Washington, D.C.? The guy came out of retirement and now you're seriously expecting him to go grab a ring with that group of losers from the old Wizards roster when he's already 40? I guess it's possible, maybe, but I doubt it.🤣 And that’s exactly why he’s overrated, I guess.🤣

Listen, man, you're being dense. Just go back and actually read what I wrote. I’m not even the one claiming this—it was just those journalists pumping out all that garbage about how he’s going to win everything, every single time, no matter who he's playing against. They kind of stepped in it, I guess.

rowdytinker3 said:Oh sure, because Scottie Pippen was obviously the sole reason for all those Chicago Bulls titles.🙏
I mean, maybe if Scottie Pippen had just swiped the ball right out of Karl Malone's hands during Game 6 of those '98 Finals, crushed Bill Russell's spirit, and then sunk the game-winner at the buzzer, things would have gone differently. I guess.

So, what? Does it really say it was just Scottie Pippen? I mean, when Steve Kerr hits a three like that, who's really doing the heavy lifting? I guess you have to wonder if Michael Jordan would’ve even grabbed a ring back then without Toni Kukoč stepping up and playing the game of his life against the Utah Jazz. Maybe.

rowdytinker3 said:Just one example here. I don't really get how people claim Karl Malone had it harder than Michael Jordan. If anything, he had two real shots at taking him down, only to get unlucky with a bad bounce. I guess it all comes down to having Scottie Pippen by his side. Jordan actually had some serious firepower around him. You had guys like Buechler, Steve Kerr, John Wennington, Bill Longley, Rodney Harper, Dennis Rodman, and even Toni Kukoč... basically a roster full of Hall of Famers.🤣:

That’s exactly the point, though. I mean, it felt like everyone was basically just playing for him.
rowdytinker3 said:Imagine if Shaquille O'Neal actually grabbed every single rebound... I mean, what if he did?🤣

I mean, maybe I was being a little manipulative and not the smartest there, my bad. You could've probably finished the rest of that sentence by pointing out he didn't pass them along to Kobe Bryant like Dennis Rodman and Michael Jordan would've. And honestly, was Dennis Rodman ever dropping 25 points a game like Shaquille O'Neal? Probably not.

rowdytinker3 said:I mean, I’m telling you right now, if Chicago played Bill Russell one-on-one, he’d absolutely smoke him. No contest.☕

🤦 What an idiot. We're over here actually talking about basketball, and he's stuck on some 1-1 tie. Why did I even bother showing up... honestly, can't even blame myself at this point. 🙂

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