Best offshore sportsbooks for online betting?

Eric Fox7 said:Well, nobody actually claimed otherwise. 🤷
The other issue here is that it’s still technically illegal under current laws.

That doesn't mean things won't change, unless they decide to amend the legislation.

By the way, I'd appreciate it if we could move the discussion regarding legal aspects and legislation over to the Law thread that Gerald Jones56 startedhttp://www.example-us-forum.com/showthread.php?t=812794

PayPal thanks, Eric Fox7. I'll make sure to comb through the thread you linked.

On a side note, if I may say so... I've been betting online for more than six years now. I'm constantly making withdrawals to my bank account and depositing via cards or other digital wallets, and I've honestly never run into any issues like the ones being mentioned. I'm really hoping my experience stays consistent!

Samuel Castillo57 said:By the way—if I’m allowed to say this—I’ve been betting online for over six years now. I’m constantly moving money back to my bank account, topping up via cards, or using various digital wallets, and I’ve honestly never run into any issues, nothing like what people describe... so, fingers crossed it stays that way.

People have brought this up a few times already—just yesterday, too:

Eric Fox7 said:That’s pretty much the gist of it, though I haven't actually heard of anyone getting slapped with a penalty for betting on foreign sites—mind you, I'm just talking about the letter of the law here, not necessarily how they actually enforce it.

Eric Fox7 said:This point has been made several times already, including just yesterday:

The only real difference here is that you didn't hear about someone else having issues, whereas I’m confirming that I personally haven't had any problems at all.
I honestly think it’s more helpful if as many people as possible chime in to say they aren't experiencing any trouble.

By the way, you're implying that I've been scrolling through older threads and posts.

Alright, I'm going to go catch up on everything, and if I can't get through it all or if I accidentally double up on a thread or a post, I hope everyone will be forgiving!

I don't see any issue with making money through international sportsbooks, because even if I'm not paying specific taxes
on those winnings, my actions benefit everyone here in the US.

1. My family and I benefit because we live comfortably. Without this, I’d likely be unemployed and probably relying on welfare.
2. The American economy and local manufacturers benefit because I spend my money on their products, supporting their operations.
3. The government benefits because they collect sales tax on every single thing I buy.
...and so on.
Wouldn't it be absurd to penalize me for that?

Chris Nguyen31 said:I don't see anything wrong with making money through foreign bookmakers. Even if I'm not paying a specific tax
on those winnings, we all benefit from it here in the States.

1. My family and I benefit because we live reasonably well. Otherwise, I’d likely be out of work and probably just another statistic in the welfare system.
2. The American economy and local manufacturers benefit because I spend my money on their goods, which helps keep them afloat.
3. The government benefits because they collect sales tax on every single thing I buy.
...and so on.
Wouldn't it be absurd to penalize me for that?

It’s incredibly foolish, really. Honestly, I suspect it would even hold up at a human rights court in Strasbourg. Look, I’m no lawyer—not even close—but the principle of equality is a fundamental pillar of European Union law. If someone can legally place an online bet in Austria, then we should be allowed to do the exact same thing here in the US...

I have no idea what you find so foolish about this. What part of what I wrote is untrue?

I can't speak for Austria, but here in Germany, betting with foreign bookmakers is strictly prohibited. Even though they are one of the leading nations in the European Union, they refuse to follow EU regulations just to protect their own national Powerball monopoly.

It would be incredibly stupid if you ended up getting penalized—that’s all I was trying to get at when you asked 😁

I wasn't aware of the situation over in Germany, that's interesting...

I believe there are various bans or restrictions currently in place within Italy, France, Spain, and the Czech Republic—though I can't say for certain regarding Belgium or the Netherlands!

Of course, certain major operators like DraftKings, Paddy Power, Unibet, or even William Hill have already secured registered domains in those specific countries, which effectively grants them the legal authorization to operate there.

Chris Nguyen31 said:I don't see any issue with making money through offshore sportsbooks. Even if I'm not paying specific taxes
on those winnings, the whole country benefits from it.

1. My family and I benefit because we live comfortably. Without this, I'd be unemployed and likely on welfare.
2. The American economy and local businesses win because I spend my money on their products, supporting their operations.
3. The government wins because they collect sales tax on everything I buy.
...and so on.
Wouldn't it be absurd to penalize me for that?

Go ahead, walk into the IRS and try telling them those three reasons. Then you'll get a real sense of what "benefit" actually means.
A dealer at a casino or a construction worker getting paid under the table could give you those exact same excuses. You think it's "absurd" to penalize them?
The common denominator here is that everyone is dodging taxes on their income.

Christian Hernandez11 said:Go ahead, tell the IRS your little story and list those three reasons. Then you'll finally understand what the word "benefit" actually means.
You could give those same three excuses to a dealer at a casino or a construction worker getting paid under the table. You think it's smart to assume they won't get penalized?
The common denominator here is that nobody wants to pay taxes on their income.

You’re mixing up apples and oranges. Why would the US care if I'm making cash under the table in Germany and bringing that USD back home?

Taxes are paid where the income is earned. If that happens abroad, why on earth would I be paying taxes in America?

Oh, if only it were that simple... If they didn't care so much about control, they wouldn't be constantly inventing these convoluted ways to handle payouts. And while we're on the subject, how exactly do you withdraw your cash from the sportsbooks?

How long does it typically take for a withdrawal to hit my bank account when using DraftKings?

steelheron53 said:How long does a withdrawal to a bank account typically take at bet365?

It usually takes up to three business days...

Pinnacle offers a better line on the exact same matchup if you just play it as a single. I actually just put some money down on Sijsling at 1.67 because I had him bundled in a parlay, but looking at the singles market, you can still grab him north of 1.70.

Yeah, that’s just how they do things over there—odds are always higher if you stick to singles.

steelpilot29 said:Well, you obviously can't do much with just a hundred bucks, but once you're sitting on a thousand USD, you've got enough to tackle those initial levels. I will say, though—and I mean this sincerely—it gets a little exhausting constantly shifting funds back and forth between accounts. But honestly? After you get through that repetitive clicking, you end up pulling in a few hundred USD every single month just from that movement alone. It’s pretty much the only "free lunch" I've ever come across in this game!

So, I’ve been noticing that ever since the ownership change at PayPal a few months back, they’ve gone and tweaked their whole policy a bit. It’s definitely different now! I’ve actually held VIP status on both PayPal and Neteller for several years running—back from before everything became such a headache to manage like it is today.
I’m sticking to my guns here—I still say PayPal is the better move for the average user. Seriously!

steelpilot29 said:Exactly! You hit the nail on the head. Even if you somehow manage to come out ahead after all that chaos, you’d probably just end up bleeding at least another 10% of those gains back through MT fees or getting absolutely eaten alive by the margins. I'd be bold enough to say that's a guarantee. If you try to head out on a trip with that kind of math, you aren't going far! 😉

But look, even on the internet, things aren't always perfect! I actually ended up getting... So, I was checking out my account on DraftKings earlier—you know how it goes, just browsing through the lines—and I hit a bit of a snag. I was looking at that Spain vs. USA match, specifically that 2.5 line, and lo and behold, they’ve got me capped at a $600 limit! Can you believe that? Just when things were getting interesting! It's such a bummer when you're ready to move, and then you run right into a wall like that. Truly frustrating! One of the big reasons why I just can't wrap my head around DraftKings' strategic moves... it's all so unclear!

P.S. Just thinking out loud here—purely a theoretical exercise! You head over to Bank of America and you set up... $33 So, I took a flyer on Nadal against Veić at 1.01 odds... and honestly? I ended up in the red despite hitting every single one of my picks! It’s just one of those things, isn't it? You think you've got the lock of a lifetime, everything lines up perfectly, you nail your bets, and somehow—somehow!—you still walk away losing money. Absolute madness! 😕
As long as we’re stuck with these terrible margins and odds that don't even hit a 1.06 baseline, betting here in America feels like more than just a waste of time—it honestly feels borderline illegal!

It really is incredibly strange regarding that American account.

Wait, I think I missed something here! Or maybe I’m just overthinking it again... typical me, right? Anyway, let's get back to the point! kaže:
@ M@chibist:
Look, I’m telling you, those numbers over on DraftKings? They aren't exactly the end-all, be-all. Honestly, they shouldn't be! Honestly, they’re just taking massive steps backward anyway. It feels like every move they make is a total regression! Look, if things don't take a massive turn for the better, they're just going to end up being another run-of-the-mill sportsbook like DraftKings. And honestly? Who knows where all that liquidity is actually going to flow—it'll probably just leak out somewhere else entirely. We'll see, I guess. But hey, that’s a whole other conversation, and frankly, probably not even worth getting into right now...

Honestly, I would absolutely love it if they could just migrate all that same liquidity over to Smarkets! It would be such a game-changer. 🙂
DraftKings is definitely overrated if you ask me—I mean, come on! So many states are already sitting there with a 7% commission rate. It just doesn't feel right!
It’s pretty obvious which country they’re really worth their weight in gold! 🙂

@ Terry Rogers2

I honestly can't say much about PayPal since I've never used it myself, but feel free to list what makes it better than what I'm using. I'd be pretty surprised if there was anything superior out there, especially since I'm practically breaking even at the end of the day with my current setup.

In this specific case, it might actually be better that they didn't get more. 🙂 But seriously, props to our guys—they played their hearts out. They got a little extra luck on their side, sure, but the Spanish team clearly underestimated us, which made for a fantastic upset. Honestly, this coach is in the same league as a top-tier water polo legend like Rudić; if we had coaches like that in every other sport, we'd be collecting medals left and right. As for betting limits, I've seen much worse. The funniest part was when William Hill set a limit of exactly 4.71 after just a few water polo matches. 😁

I'm not sure what you'd say about DraftKings. I actually read a book about them, but looking at it from the perspective of business development and the founders' original vision, it’s worlds away from what the current owners are doing. Personally, I find that 7% fee somewhat acceptable (I managed to lower mine to 3.5% over time), but it's pretty cheap of them to hike the fee to 7% while capping the discount at 50%. It feels a bit stingy. Then again, once you reach the level where you're paying for a high-end PC, those small details matter less. For now, I've been tinkering around with Matchbook and FanDuel, but they aren't even close to DraftKings. No one else offers a platform quite like that.
They process an average of five million transactions a day, which is more than all the stock exchanges in the European Union combined. Even Goldman Sachs approached them to develop a platform. Now, look at the state of things today—if you think they can just drive everyone else away and keep the British market, I'm not so sure. Those guys mostly bet on their own soccer, maybe the Champions League, or horse racing. That's really it. You could see a significant drop in liquidity in other leagues once those countries were out of the picture. You can see it in tennis too; even the US Open felt a bit lackluster. In five years, they'll realize they shot themselves in the foot if things don't change, and I really hope CVC steps in to take over and bring things back to how they used to be.

Terry Rogers2 said:Since the ownership change a few months back, PayPal has tweaked its policy slightly. I’ve held VIP status on both PayPal and Neteller for years, back before everything became this complicated.
My stance hasn't changed: Neteller remains the better bet for the average user.

If you're withdrawing cash from ATMs (in the US using USD) while holding accounts in USD, PayPal actually wins out because their conversion rates are more favorable than Neteller's. Plus, as a Bronze VIP on PayPal, I don't get hit with withdrawal fees, whereas Neteller still charges me $4.

Chris Nguyen31 said:If you're pulling cash out of ATMs (here in the States using USD) and you've got accounts sitting in USD, then Skrill is definitely the smarter move. On Skrill, the conversion is about 1 USD per 1 USD—well, let's just say the rates are better—whereas Neteller gives you a worse deal. Plus, since I'm a Bronze VIP on Skrill, I don't get hit with withdrawal fees, while Neteller tries to snatch $4 right off the top!

I don't really bother hitting up ATMs, so that specific part doesn't apply to my life, but look... the math tells a different story! Withdrawal fees on Skrill sit at $1.80, and as a Bronze VIP, you're capped at pulling $250 every 24 hours. Meanwhile, Neteller lets you grab up to $750 in a day, even if they do charge you that $4 fee.
3*250 = 750
3*1.8 = 5.4
So, when you actually crunch the numbers, those Skrill fees end up being higher in the long run!

steelpilot29 said:@ Terry Rogers

I honestly can't speak to PayPal because I've never actually used it, but please, do tell—what are the perks for everyone else? I’d be genuinely shocked if there was anything better than what I'm using right now, since I'm practically turning a profit here at the end of the day!

In this specific instance, it might actually be better they didn't offer more. 🙂 But seriously, kudos to our guys! They played their cards perfectly. They got a little extra luck on their side, the Spanish teams definitely underestimated them, and it all added up to one heck of a massive upset. Honestly, this coach is playing at a level comparable to an elite US water polo legend like Rudić—if other sports had coaches like that, we'd be swimming in gold medals. As far as limits go, things could have been way worse, though the funniest part was when William Hill set a limit of exactly 4.71 after just a few water polo matches! 😁

As for DraftKings, I don't know what to say. I actually read a book about them, but looking at it from the perspective of the original business model and the founders' vision versus how the current owners run things... it's like they aren't even related. Personally, I find that 7% margin somewhat acceptable (I managed to get mine down to 3.5% over time), but it's pretty shady that they bumped the fee to 7% while cutting the maximum discount to only 50%. That's just cheap tactics, really. But then again, once you reach the point where you're paying for a high-end PC, maybe it doesn't matter as much. For now, I'm just tinkering around with Matchbook and FanDuel, but they are nowhere near the level of DraftKings. No one has a platform quite like that.
They handle an average of five million transactions a day—that's more than all the stock exchanges in the US combined! Even Goldman Sachs actually approached them to develop a platform. And look at them now, just struggling along. If you think they can push everyone else out and just keep the Americans, I'm not so sure that'll work; those guys mostly bet on their own football, maybe some Champions League, or horse racing. That's the extent of it. You could really feel a significant lack of liquidity in other leagues once those countries were out of the picture. You can see it in tennis too; even the US Open felt a bit underwhelming. In five years, they'll realize they shot themselves in the foot if things don't change, and I really hope CVC steps in to take over and bring things back to the way they used to be.

First off, verification is way easier with PayPal, and the initial limits are significantly higher. Plus, there are no fees for sending money to other people. Skrill started hitting us with these huge fees for sending money to other users, ranging from 1% up to a max of 10 USD. So, if you're sending someone 500 USD, they snatch 5 USD right off the top. With PayPal, that fee is zero.
Of course, I believe VIP Skrill has a max fee of maybe 0.50 USD per transaction.
Regarding the rewards points, the situation is more or less equal, unless Skrill runs one of those 4x or 5x multiplier promos—but if you've noticed, ever since they changed ownership, those days are long gone.
And then there are other things... like the fact that Skrill might share transaction data with bookmakers (which they then use to decide whether to close accounts). But hey, that's a whole different topic for another thread.