2017 NASCAR Season

northerncobra31 said:Honestly, Vettel is incredibly close.

Yeah, those team orders made all the difference. That's exactly how he became world champion—by actually listening to the team.

No need to backtrack—you aren't wrong.

Nobody actually found the 2015 season interesting; those races were basically just processions, both in qualifying and during the actual Grand Prix. There wasn't any real, gritty fighting on the track—just people cruising along.

I don't think you quite grasp the whole concept of subjectivity, do you?

Who actually cares if you think I'm right or not?

But honestly speaking.

The main thing is that this season is absolutely packed with racing.

So many overtakes, constant battles on the track...

In the coming seasons, there will be less obsession over test results, and you won't be disappointed.

northerncobra31 said:I don't think you quite grasp the whole concept of subjectivity, do you?

Who actually cares if you think I'm right or not?

But honestly speaking.

The main thing is that this season is absolutely packed with racing.

So many overtakes, constant battles on the track...

In the coming seasons, there will be less obsession over test results, and you won't be disappointed.

There are people out there who subjectively believe the Earth is a flat disc—that doesn't mean what they're saying makes any sense.

Mercedes 2015:

16 wins

12 double victories

Muy interesante 🙄

Could it be because Bottas just isn't quite at Rosberg's level as a driver?

To me, that was way more interesting than comparing Vettel's four wins to how many Hamilton has.

I’m wondering who actually takes the championship, and I'm not even talking about pole positions.

I guess I'm just not wired for the deep dives into what "objectively" should be more exciting—it's the same thing with movies, TV shows, or music.

For ME, this season has been the worst since I started following the sport. You're totally free to rewatch this season's races on loop if you want; I don't mind, you're entitled to your own opinion.

There's no arguing over personal taste, and neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can decide what someone else should find interesting.

I find this season pretty engaging compared to how things have been since 2015, but if I’m looking at the big picture, I think this year is actually worse for fans who don't have a specific team to root for. It’s because we’ve had the exact same team winning for four seasons in a row now...
After 2015, I was still holding onto some optimism that things would get interesting again! 😁

northerncobra31 said:swifttiger75 isn't right; we all view things through a subjective lens.

If you didn't find it interesting, that's perfectly fine.

And when was the USA Grand Prix held?

Was it at the start of the season, or toward the end?

Besides, by now, you already know who's going to take the title this season.

No one expected Ferrari to close the gap on Mercedes. They've improved significantly, but it just isn't enough, and the results prove it.

If you actually called it, major props to you. Did you put any money on it at the sportsbook or what?

Nobody expected Ferrari to close the gap on Mercedes—they've improved big time, sure, but it's just not enough, and the results prove it.

The results show that Vettel was leading for over half the season.

neonfox65 said:If you actually called it, major props to you. Did you put any money on it at the sportsbook or what?

Nobody expected Ferrari to close the gap on Mercedes—they've improved big time, sure, but it's just not enough, and the results prove it.

The results show that Vettel was leading for over half the season.

then they hit that classic late-season slump, though honestly, it wasn't quite as massive a disaster as what we saw last season.

neonfox65 said:If you actually called it, major props to you. Did you put any money on it at the sportsbook or what?

Nobody expected Ferrari to close the gap on Mercedes—they've improved big time, sure, but it's just not enough, and the results prove it.

The results show that Vettel was leading for over half the season.

Everyone knew that coming; Mercedes had such a massive advantage from the previous season that some "experts" on here were just overthinking the testing results.

Back during the testing thread, I mentioned that even if Ferrari built a truly competitive car, they’d likely trip themselves up—whether through development issues, mistakes on the pit wall, or driver errors. Even if they actually pulled it off, Hamilton would still walk away as champion because the Mercedes was simply the superior car.

The only thing I missed was how much Bottas would struggle. He's performing significantly worse than I anticipated; Hamilton is outclassing him by nearly 100 points. He isn't quite as bad as Kimi Räikkönen, but he's definitely not what I expected.

I honestly think the folks over at Mercedes were expecting way more from him. Look, it’s nice having some peace and quiet in the garage the way Ferrari likes it, but having a teammate who just cruises along doesn't exactly light a fire under Hamilton to step up his game. Luckily, with this car and the way things are looking right now, there isn't even much of a need to push for improvements anyway.

I think you guys might be missing the mark here. Honestly, looking at how the first half of the season went, and even moving into the final third, Bottas showed just how much he can hold his own behind Hamilton, and sometimes even getting ahead of him. It felt like after the break, Mercedes basically went all-in on Hamilton, trying to dial the car's setup specifically toward his driving style, and ever since the Singapore Grand Prix, everything just seemed to click perfectly for them. Even during testing, Mercedes showed this incredible balance across the whole car, despite the illusion that Ferrari was faster. I mean, sure, Vettel being out front was definitely thanks to a solid Ferrari, but it was also because that team is completely obsessed with finally clinching a drivers' title.
Bottas basically got handed the keys to a car that’s been dominating for several seasons now, working alongside the absolute best engineers and a driver who has proven himself in that seat and that machinery more times than I can count.
Mercedes is just in a league of their own—whether you're talking about organization, teamwork, logistics... whatever. They snagged the constructors' title, and in that regard, Bottas is doing his job just fine.

northerncobra31 said:Everyone knew that coming; Mercedes had such a massive advantage from the previous season that some "experts" on here were just overthinking the testing results.

Back during the testing thread, I mentioned that even if Ferrari built a truly competitive car, they’d likely trip themselves up—whether through development issues, mistakes on the pit wall, or driver errors. Even if they actually pulled it off, Hamilton would still walk away as champion because the Mercedes was simply the superior car.

The only thing I missed was how much Bottas would struggle. He's performing significantly worse than I anticipated; Hamilton is outclassing him by nearly 100 points. He isn't quite as bad as Kimi Räikkönen, but he's definitely not what I expected.

Well, I certainly didn't. Especially not when one driver was leading more than half the season—it was anyone's game who would take the title. It wasn't until those three races where Ferrari just fell apart that things became obvious. If you were so sure, why didn't you put your money on it at the sportsbook?

So why bother gambling?

I've only ever placed two bets in my life, and I won both. It wasn't thrilling, and honestly, I don't need the money.

Everyone needs some cash 🙂

northerncobra31 said:That fight was mostly an illusion. Hamilton has had the best car since the start of the season, and honestly, he’s only "to blame" because he didn't take the lead sooner. It felt artificially competitive just because he tends to start the season a bit slow. If Rosberg were still around, I'm certain we'd be seeing a real battle between Hamilton and Rosberg again, especially with Hamilton coming into the season more fired up to reclaim his lost title.

This outcome only happened because of Bottas.

At no point during the championship did I think anyone else besides Hamilton would win the title; it was really just a matter of when he'd take the lead and pull away.

I had pretty much the same feeling, honestly.
I spent the whole time just waiting for Hamilton to take the lead.
It's not exactly the most thrilling thing I've followed—kind of a boring season, if I'm being real.

jadeseal7 said:There are people out there who subjectively believe the Earth is a flat disc—that doesn't mean what they're saying makes any sense.

Mercedes 2015:

16 wins

12 double victories

Muy interesante 🙄

You're making some fair points...
If Rosberg had been in the car this season, his stats regarding win counts and double wins would look pretty much identical to 2015...
Hamilton basically did this one at half throttle, so it's funny how those Sky Sports guys celebrate every single pole position when you watch the onboard and see him making at least one or two mistakes per lap...
And Bottas wouldn't stand a chance; Rosberg would have cleaned those up easily. 😉

He’s the same way with races, too—he missed quite a few opportunities in the first half of the season to put Hamilton on pole and just cruise to a win...

The only reason it was even interesting was because of the mistakes made by Hamilton and Hamilton at the start of the season. In the second half, Ferrari and Sebastian Vettel took back everything they had been gifted, with interest...
Honestly, there weren't any real battles happening; it was just an illusion created by mistakes on both sides...

stormybadger8 said:You're making some fair points...
If Rosberg had been in the car this season, his stats regarding win counts and double wins would look pretty much identical to 2015...
Hamilton basically did this one at half throttle, so it's funny how those Sky Sports guys celebrate every single pole position when you watch the onboard and see him making at least one or two mistakes per lap...
And Bottas wouldn't stand a chance; Rosberg would have cleaned those up easily. 😉

He’s the same way with races, too—he missed quite a few opportunities in the first half of the season to put Hamilton on pole and just cruise to a win...

The only reason it was even interesting was because of the mistakes made by Hamilton and Hamilton at the start of the season. In the second half, Ferrari and Sebastian Vettel took back everything they had been gifted, with interest...
Honestly, there weren't any real battles happening; it was just an illusion created by mistakes on both sides...

What kind of "real fight" are you even talking about regarding 2015? Honestly, I don't know what you're on about.

Honestly, it was nothing special. 2015 felt like a throwback to those dark days when the Schumacher-Brawn-Todt era ruled everything. Look, you can't argue with taste, but I truly don't get how anyone can actually enjoy a season where the winning team just cruises to victory because they have an overpowered car, even without their best driver being at the top of his game.

jadeseal7 said:What kind of "real fight" are you even talking about regarding 2015? Honestly, I don't know what you're on about.

What's wrong with 🤷
Where on earth did I mention a real fight in 2015, and how did you even come to that conclusion? 😕

Since 2014, there hasn't been any actual fighting going on at all... nothing.
From the very first second of the season, it's obvious Mercedes is taking the titles...
The only question is how many Luxury mistakes they'll make, which might decide the rest of the season and occasionally create some sort of drama...

Here is a quick little breakdown of how this season has gone so far (some people might find it funny, others probably won't):
If Max had spent even half as much time fighting Hamilton as he did battling Vettel, they’d be sitting right on top of each other within 15 points by now.

Am I really gonna have to repeat my whole damn post again? ☕