Spain Matchday 27 - April 27, 2008

Frank Collins85 said:, man, if Massu crashes out in that Torro car, we are all in for a world of hurt...

He’ll just grind through the rest of the season in that Torro seat until he gets canned by the team and kicked right out of Formula 1😂

Edward Howard2 said:I’m really not being dramatic here...
for most of those years—specifically '95, '01, '02, and '04—he was basically cruising in a car that had no equal on the grid. Back at Benetton, he had Verstappen and Herbert as teammates, which isn't exactly a lineup you'd call competitive, and once he moved to Ferrari, he was the undisputed number one from day one, leaving his teammates with zero chance to actually show what they were capable of.

I was just making a nod to that old saying about how one legendary title carries more weight than seven mediocre ones.

And honestly, looking back, it might even be true.😬

Arthur Doyle70 said:I was merely referencing how a single insight from someone like Senna carries more weight than seven posts from a mere cobbler.

And perhaps it actually does worth its weight in gold, doesn't it?😬

Unfortunately for him, it doesn't 😢

Edward Howard2 said:I’m not even being dramatic here...
most of those titles—specifically the ones in '95, '01, '02, and '04—came because he was driving a beast of a car with zero competition. Back at Benetton, his teammates were guys like Verstappen and Herbert, who honestly weren't exactly top-tier rivals. Then once he moved to Ferrari, he was the undisputed number one from day one, so his teammates didn't even get a fair shake to show what they had in the tank.

Hold up a second, people, what are you even talking about? He joined Ferrari right when they were struggling big time, a team that hadn't touched a championship in like 20 years...

Look, maybe he had a killer car at Benetton, but I bet he had a hand in that too. Everyone talks about how much he knows his way around the mechanics; he knew exactly how to tweak things to fit his style. Having the fastest car doesn't automatically guarantee you the trophy back then...

But everything since he arrived at Ferrari? That’s all him. I don't think there's any point in trying to downplay those championships...

If any driver from today's lineup managed to drag their team to the top like that, we'd be tipping our hats to them. Honestly, looking at how much things fell apart after Schumacher left Ferrari, you can really see the massive hole he left behind...

And as for his teammates? I mean, Irvine actually showed he was legit when Schumacher broke his leg. As far as I remember, for the rest of that season, Schumacher basically played the role of the supporting driver, making all those comments about how he'd help out however he could.🤷

First off, you gotta get the driver's name right, but honestly, Eddie was basically breathing down the neck of that championship title anyway

darkmarlin16 said:you gotta spell the driver's full name right first, besides Eddie was pretty much right there at the front

yeah he was leading but he didn't actually take the win 🤷
so yeah, I guess I'll just "forget" how to spell the guy's name properly then 🙏

when you just don't have a clue

darkmarlin16 said:when you just don't get it

basically "my dad is tougher than yours so shut up" 🙄

but honestly, that’s got zero to do with what we're actually talking about :ne_zna:

your mom doesn't even love you

rustystag7 said:Hold up a second, guys. What are you even talking about? He joined Ferrari when they were absolute trash—a team that hadn't even touched a championship in 20 years...

Sure, back at Benetton he might have had a killer car, and honestly, he probably had a hand in that too since everyone raves about how much he knows his way around the mechanics and how he knew exactly how to tweak things to suit him. Having the best car doesn't automatically mean you're taking home the trophy back then...

But from the moment he stepped into Ferrari onwards, everything was strictly down to him. I really don't see any point in downplaying those titles...

It actually took five years after he arrived at Ferrari before they finally grabbed the title. That's way too much time having passed for anyone to claim it was solely his doing.

rustystag7 said:If any driver today managed to take their team to the top, you'd have to tip your hat to them. Personally, I think once Schumacher left Ferrari, you could really see all the gaps that were left behind by his departure...

Yeah, as soon as he walked out the door, they won the championship just two years later. And if you ask me, I think they're right on track to do it again this year.

rustystag7 said:And regarding his teammates, Irvin actually proved his worth when Schumacher broke his leg. As far as I can remember, for the rest of that season, Schumacher basically played second fiddle, making all those comments about how he'd help out however he could.🤷

Whoa, that's a pretty intense example to throw out there...
I think Irvin managed to snag his only four career wins during that exact season where Schumacher wasn't driving the whole thing. If he’d been running neck-and-neck with Schumacher at Ferrari from the start of the season, he would've been the champion, since he ended up finishing only 2 or 3 points behind Hakkinen.
As for the "rest" of that season, we're only talking about two races, one of which Schumacher finished a spot ahead of Irvin.
Irvin drove great that year. Honestly, his only real regret is that Schumacher didn't break his leg earlier in the season.😂

Edward Howard2 said:it took them five years after he joined Ferrari to actually grab the title, so honestly, it's been way too long since he arrived to say it was all just down to him

yeah, but look—as soon as he left, they snagged the championship just two years after being at their best, and I really think they're on track to pull it off again this year

man, you really picked a hell of an example there...
I mean, Irvin had those four solo wins in his career during that specific season when Schumacher wasn't even driving the whole thing. If he’d been running neck-and-neck with Schumi from the jump, he probably would've been champion, considering he finished only like 2 or 3 points behind Hakkinen at the end
and about the "rest" of that season? We're talking about like two races where Schumi ended up one spot ahead of Irvin.
Irvin drove a great season, and if there's any "what if," it's just: what if Schumi hadn't broken his leg earlier in the year? 😂

look, you're basing all of this on theories that just don't hold water...

And that "five years" thing? Not realistic. Ferrari was basically a total wreck back then, and Schumi was doing so much heavy lifting at McLaren, he was pretty much the only bright spot in the whole operation. It kind of reminds me of how Alonso is dealing with Renault this year....

plus, you know damn well Schumi cruised through last season to take the title easily...

hard to say what might've happened in a vacuum, but looking at how unmotivated Kimi seemed in those first few races, he definitely would've grabbed some wins🤷

last season, Kimi didn't win just because of luck, but more like—how do I put this?—he relied way too heavily on Massa to get it done

just think back to how Ferrari started out... I mean, I'm rooting for the team, but man, instead of pushing forward, Massa is just sitting there blocking Hamilton from the lead😉

and regarding Irvin, sure, maybe Cojo was in that bad spot for six races, fine. But he had the rest of the season left! (Remember, race 7 was when Schumi broke his leg fighting Irvin, so in a replay, he'd be second)... yeah, okay, it boiled down to the last two races, but Schumi was basically driving for him during those two🤷

but Hakkinen still shut him down. It's not like he didn't have the chance to show what he could do

rustystag7 said:Look, you're basing all of this on theories that just don't hold water...

Regarding year five, you're being totally unrealistic because Ferrari was in a complete tailspin back then. Schumi was holding it together against McLaren and was basically the only bright spot in that whole mess... to me, the whole vibe reminds me of Alonso and Renault this season....

And you know damn well that Schumi was basically cruising to the title last year...

I mean, it's impossible to say what would've happened if things went differently, but one thing's for sure—looking at how unmotivated Kimi was during those first few races, he definitely would've snatched some wins.🤷

Last season, Kimi won more due to luck than anything else. And I say "luck" because he wasn't doing it all on his own merit; he was leaning heavily on Massa...

Just think back to that Ferrari start... look, I'm rooting for that crew, but man, instead of pushing forward, Massa goes from P1 straight into blocking Hamilton.😉

As for Irvin, the issue is that Cojo spent six races in that bad spot you're talking about, fine. But he had the rest of the season left! (Race 7 was when Schumi broke his leg fighting Irvin, meaning in a rematch, he actually finished second)... Sure, it came down to the last two races, but Schumi was the one driving for him during those two.🤷

But Hakkinen eventually shut him down again. It’s not like he didn't get plenty of chances to prove himself.

I'm not using "theories" at all; I'm strictly going off my own memory and looking at the actual numbers...
Since you brought up Alonso, the guy won the championship with Renault in only his third year after joining them, working with a practically brand-new F1 team.
If we're playing the "what if" game, if Schumi had been at Ferrari last year, he wouldn't have even been in the same zip code as Alonso in the McLaren. McLaren was the dominant car for most of the season, which is the only reason Schumi could play any significant role at all.

Edward Howard2 said:I'm not even leaning on some random theories here, just going strictly off what I remember and looking at the actual numbers...
since you brought up Alonso, look—that guy won a title with Renault just three years after joining them, and they were basically a totally fresh squad in F1 at the time.
And if we're playing the "what if" game, think about Schumacher at Ferrari last year; he wouldn't have even been in the same zip code as Alonso at McLaren if they both had been the number one drivers in their respective teams. McLaren was pretty much dominating most of the season just so Schumacher could actually play a meaningful role.

I mean, I get where you're coming from with what you wrote, but we all know how things went down with Alonso and Hamilton, and honestly, I don't think Schumacher would've changed a thing there either...

And yeah, Mercedes was dominant, sure, but I see the opening in Kimi's lack of interest at the start of the season. We all know how Schumacher is—he’s out there testing whenever everyone else is taking their annual break, tinkering with the car. Meanwhile, Kimi straight-up admitted he can't really tell what works for him and isn't some testing expert.🤷
Plus, let's not forget how Massa and Kimi completely blew it with tactics last season, which is exactly how Schumacher kept walking away with wins.👍

As for Alonso, being a huge Schumacher fan, his title win didn't sit right with me, but hey, massive respect for everything he's pulled off so far.🙏

But man, I still just can't wrap my head around the idea that Barrichello and Irvin were total scrubs. That's just how it is.😁

In my book, Barrichello really didn't get a fair shake, but Irvin? Yeah, he was a total washout.🤷

rustystag7 said:but I still just can't wrap my head around the fact that Barrichello and Irvin were total busts, period. 😁

Honestly, I think Barrichello really didn't get a fair shake at what he could be, but Irvin? Yeah, he was definitely a dud. 🤷

Irvin, Barrichello, and Massa were basically just backup singers in an orchestra led by Schumacher.
None of them stood a chance at anything more than that.
With Irvin, you could argue he might've had a shot if Schumacher had crashed out in that second race of the season. If that happened, probability says he might've grabbed the title in '99. But since Schumacher stayed on track, we can't call that season a "big break" for Irvin—though it was easily the best year of his career, so I guess that says something.

You're just picking on him for no reason.

Edward Howard2 said:Irvin, Barrichello, and Massa were just supporting players in an orchestra conducted by Schumacher.

Irvin had his shot and missed it. Barrichello never even got one. And Massa? Well, Massa is just Massa.🤣

Edward Howard2 said:None of them stood a chance at being anything more than that.
As for Irvin, you could argue he might have had a shot if Schumacher had crashed in the second race of the season. Based on pure probability, maybe he could have taken the 1999 title. But Schumacher didn't crash, so we can't call that season a lost opportunity for Irvin—though it was certainly the best year of his career. That says enough, doesn't it?

Hint-Stowe, 1999, Schumacher☕
Ring a bell?🤷

And btw, is the topic VN Spain?

First things first: what’s the weather forecast looking like for the weekend?

Edward Howard2 said:McLaren was basically running circles around everyone most of the season, which gave Michael Schumacher a fighting chance to actually matter.

😂😂

Now, this is what dominance looks like:

2001.
1. Michael Schumacher 123
2. David Coulthard 65
3. Rubens Barrichello 56

2002.
1. Michael Schumacher 144
2. Rubens Barrichello 77
3. Juan Pablo Montoya 50
4. Ralf Schumacher 42

1. Ferrari 221
2. Williams 92

2004.
I’m embarrassed even bringing up that year.

Jason Campbell70 said:Eddie Irvin had his shot and completely blew it. Barrichello never even got a fair shake to begin with. And Massa? Well, Massa is just Massa.🤣

Eddie Irvin 🙏
That flawless red car is the only reason it didn't walk away with the championship back in '99.

Barrichello spent six years behind the wheel of the best car on the grid, yet his points tally always seemed to trail behind Michael Schumacher.
2000. 108:62
2001. 123:56
2002. 144:77
2003. 93:65
2004. 148:114
2005. 62:32
It’s nearly doubling every year. Honestly, does the guy even need any more input?

Let me think... I might have forgotten something else.
When Eddie Irvin was wrapping things up at Ferrari, he gave an interview where he basically said something like this:
Look, Barrichello is fine. He’s talented, he’s got potential... blah, blah, blah. But let’s be real: he doesn't stand a chance at Ferrari.
Michael Schumacher is going to absolutely wreck him. And honestly, it’s not even about Barrichello—it’s just that Schumacher destroys whoever steps into his line of sight. His pace and the way he operates are on another level. You don't stand a chance; he just grinds you into the dirt.

Eddie Irvin!? You could say that and be dead on. Honestly, how is it even possible?

Roger Wright94 said:Eddie Irvin 🙏
The perfect red car is the only reason it didn't take the championship back in '99.

If you want to talk about actual car performance, just look at Mike Salo's results. Simple as that.👍

Jason Campbell70 said:If you want to know how fast a car actually is, just look at Mike Salo's results.👍

Sure, whatever you say. 😉