Spain Matchday 27 - April 27, 2008

Roger Wright94 said:Eddie Irvin🙏>
The perfect red car is somehow to blame because he didn't take the title in '99.

It's a stretch to say the car was the problem. Honestly, Eddie Irvin just tripped over his own feet.

Eddie Irvin... man, he was easily one of the absolute best drivers out there who never actually managed to snag a championship title

A classmate of mine is heading out to the race with their parents. 😲

darkmarlin16 said:Eddie Irvin was one of the best drivers who never actually clinched a championship.

I mean, does anyone even remember Eddie Irvin anymore? That argument doesn't really hold much water...
Ronnie Peterson was truly one of the most gifted drivers to ever take the track without securing a world title.

Frank Collins85 said:Ronnie Peterson was easily one of the most gifted drivers to never actually clinch a championship title.

Same goes for Jean Alesi.

Roger Wright94 said:Irvine!? Saying something like that and actually being spot on... man, how is that even possible!

the guy was a total legend in his own way
not quite Kimi style, but definitely different...

Austin Evans said:It’s hard to blame the red car. Irvine basically tripped over his own feet here.

Maybe, if you're only looking at that last race where he went in with a 4-point lead.

But look back a couple of months before that. Eddie grabbed two wins in a row, then just scraped one or two points—if anything—for the next four races. On top of that, Michael wasn't on the grid, and Hakkinen wasn't exactly tearing it up either. To this day, it feels like a bit of a mystery to me, so I'm leaning toward blaming the crew rather than the driver. Ferrari was getting incredibly fast, sure, but they were still unreliable as hell.

In my book, that's clearly Michael's second "virtual" title. He ended up 32 points behind after missing 7 races. Using the old scoring system? Yeah, it's pretty obvious what happened.

So, according to my own mental math regarding the championships, Schumacher didn't actually win a single title ☕

And here is my reasoning. If Senna had lived......

shbbkbb 🙄

redheron12 said:So, based on my own mental math regarding championships, Schumacher didn't actually win a single one. ☕

And here is the reasoning. If Senna had lived...

whatever 🙄

Just throw in the possibility that Schumacher was never even born into this timeline for all I care.😉

redheron12 said:So, based on my own mental math regarding championship counts, Schumacher didn't actually win a single title ☕

And here is my reasoning. If only Senna had survived...

shbbkbb 🙄

Oh, if only he had stayed with us... I was such a huge fan of his. But looking back, the 1994 season just wasn't kind to Senna. Between the Interlagos-winner Schumacher, the Tanaka-winner Schumacher, and then what happened at San Marino—😢 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdoyYgOiX0w (that qualifying lap looked incredibly fast...)🙂

redheron12 said:So, based on my own mental math regarding championships, Schumacher didn't actually win a single title ☕

And here's the thing. If Senna had lived......

shbbkbb 🙄

alright fine, I'm not gonna get sucked into an argument, shbbkbb, but everyone acts like Senna died when he was just 20, like there was this massive mountain of potential still ahead of him...

I mean, look, 34 isn't old, obviously, but you're getting into that territory where you're winding down, maybe got 3 or 4 seasons left in the tank at most 🤷

don't get me wrong, the guy's an absolute driving legend, I'm not trying to downplay that at all

rustystag7 said:Look, I’m not trying to start a massive argument here, but everyone is acting like Senna died in his early twenties and had this endless lifetime of racing ahead of him...

I mean, obviously 34 isn't "old," but you're starting to see the sunset of a career at that age, maybe three or four seasons left before the inevitable fade out.🤷

Don't get me wrong, he's an absolute legend, and saying that doesn't take anything away from his legacy.

It’s definitely not diminishing him.

It’s just a shame, because watching a multi-time champion still dominating at 45 would have been something truly special to witness.😉

Senna 🙏🙏🙏

rustystag7 said:Look, I’m not trying to start a massive flame war here—that's just noise—but everyone is acting like Senna died in his early twenties, leaving an entire lifetime of racing ahead of him...

I mean, while 34 isn't "old," you have to admit it’s getting toward the twilight of a career—maybe three or four seasons left at most🤷

Don't get me wrong—he was a driving legend, and I say that with nothing but respect

It all feels like typical internet bickering—though it does spark debate—because if you give Senna two more wins and take two titles away from Schumacher, you're actually hitting close to the mark, aren't you?

The real question is how Schumacher's trajectory would have shifted. When Senna left, it cleared a path for Schumacher—not just on the track, but in terms of capturing the fans and the sponsors too...

Jason Campbell70 said:If you want to get a real sense of what that car is actually capable of, you really only need to look at the results Mike Salo has been putting up on the track.👍

I mean, honestly, looking at Pila...

If we’re looking back at the 2006 season, there really isn't much of a debate to be had if you actually bother to look at the data, though I know people love to argue just for the sake of hearing themselves talk. When you weigh everything up, deciding who truly owned that year comes down to whether you value raw, unadulterated dominance or the ability to grind out a championship through sheer grit and tactical maneuvering. It was a fascinating, albeit chaotic, era where the technical regulations were shifting underfoot, creating this volatile environment where even a slight tweak to a wing could change your entire trajectory. You had certain drivers who seemed almost untouchable in certain stints, while others were constantly fighting an uphill battle against reliability issues and strategic blunders from the pit wall. If you're asking me who held the upper hand, you have to look at the consistency versus the peak performance, because that's where the real story lies. Most people jump to conclusions based on one or two iconic races, but if you sit down and actually analyze the full campaign, the answer becomes quite obvious, regardless of how much noise the pundits make on TV.

Is it a case of Renault versus Ferrari, or what?
It’s honestly quite a stretch to even attempt to draw a direct line between Alonso and Schumacher, though I suppose some people enjoy making those kinds of leaps if they try hard enough. When you really sit down and dissect the sheer, overwhelming dominance that Schumacher exerted over the sport during his prime, it becomes clear that we aren't just talking about talent; we are talking about a complete and total reconfiguration of what it meant to be a professional driver. He didn't just drive the car; he fundamentally reshaped the entire ecosystem of the team around his specific needs. While Alonso certainly possesses an incredible amount of raw skill and has had his moments of brilliance, attempting to elevate him to that same legendary echelon feels like a bit of a reach to me. It’s one thing to be a champion, but it's an entirely different matter to be the singular force that defines an entire era of racing history.

So, what’s your pick?

I know that either way you look at it, it's going to be just as painful for you...

But I’m genuinely curious, really. 🙂

hollowhawk412 I can't even begin to process what they're saying here.
I remember sitting in a diner outside of Austin back in the day, just watching the rain hit the window and thinking about how much everything changes, and honestly, I was just thinking about Pila...

I can't help but wonder if we're really looking for an answer or just chasing ghosts, but honestly, looking back at 2006, it’s hard to say who truly owned that year without getting into the weeds of how much everything changed.

Is it even worth debating if we're looking at Renault versus Ferrari?
I was just sitting here thinking about how much better Alonso was than Schumacher.

What's your pick?

I know that either way, it’s going to hurt you just the same.

I've gotta say, I'm actually pretty curious about this one. 🙂

Alonso only took that deal with McM because he knew Ferrari was cooking up something much better for next season.😬

I just couldn't take it anymore. 😉

redheron12 said:It’s all just noise, honestly. I mean, sure, people love to debate it, but if you just add two titles to Senna and take two away from Schumacher, suddenly the math changes... but even then, it's not like we're talking about some crazy fantasy scenario, right?

The real kicker is how Schumacher's whole career path would've shifted. Once Senna was out of the picture, it basically cleared the way for him—not just on the track, but with the fans, the big sponsors, all that stuff too.....

you're spot on there 👍

Arthur Doyle70 said:Alonso signed with McM because Ferrari was busy prepping a better car for next year😬

I just couldn't sit here and take that kind of nonsense 😉

It’s absolute madness to suggest Ferrari even had to focus on preparing a car for next season...
they basically didn't need to change a single thing

redheron12 said:It’s all just semantics. Even if you debate it, if you give Senna two more wins and strip Schumacher of two titles, suddenly he's right there at the top. It isn't even that much of a stretch, is it?

The real question is how Schumacher's career would have played out. Once Senna was gone, the path cleared for him—not just on the track, but with fans and sponsors too...

Schumacher built his own lane and carved out his own space.

Maybe Senna leaving gave his career a slight nudge, but it wasn't the deciding factor.

I trust Eddie Irvine. He spent two years in the same cockpit as Michael; they lived through enough together that he knows the guy better than anyone.
We're just spectators watching the aftermath.
Eddie saw what actually caused it.

If I’d been thrown into motorsports as a kid, I would’ve clinched my first championship by age ten—and probably run up a streak of ten straight titles. Schumi would’ve been stuck on two. People would still be talking about how I forced Villeneuve off the track and gave him a little slap for good measure 😁
But hey... 🤣

Look, I think Eddie is an absolute legend, but I’ve gotta say, I am totally not on board with him on this one.