Magic Johnson: The GOAT, the king, the legend...

And they call this an outfit for high-stakes games...

All he’s missing are those universal sneakers you can't find anywhere anymore nowadays.

George Robinson43 said:Ivo Karlović was ranked among the top 20 tennis players back in 2008.
A guy who struggles to hit a ball over the net three times in a row, spent most of his career without a coach, and didn't exactly live a disciplined lifestyle. There were even times he ended up at a nightclub instead of catching a flight for a tournament.
That’s just how much sweat and effort it takes to get close to the summit of tennis.
Nowadays, you basically need a serve clocked at 143 miles/h to be relevant. Everything else is secondary.
It isn't that elite athletes don't bleed during training, but I don't see why success in handball is considered any less valuable than success in tennis.
Is it perhaps because tennis is seen as a more elite sport?
Maybe. But let's not forget there are far more handball players in the world than professional tennis players. That speaks to its wider reach.
On the other hand, no tennis player will ever experience what top-tier handball players endure. Years upon years of taking hits and dealing with brutal injuries.

I agree; there are always exceptions. Beyond that, being in the top 20 for a single year doesn't mean much in tennis either. People only care about the very top, just like in handball. And those players didn't get there by accident. I'm not defending tennis—it's a relatively boring sport to me...
It's obvious that the physical brutality of handball demands peak conditioning from the players...
But I believe the point of this whole debate was that in a team sport, you can still play a vital role even if you aren't 100% physically prepared, whereas in an individual sport, that's not really an option.

Lisa Davis10 said:I agree—there are always exceptions—but beyond that, it’s not like anyone cares if you spent a single year in the top 20 in tennis. People only look at the absolute summit, much like in handball. And those players don't end up there by accident. Not that I'm defending tennis or anything; personally, I find it a relatively boring sport...
Of course, the sheer physical brutality in handball demands peak conditioning from every player...
But I think the whole point of this debate was that in a team sport, you can actually get away with not being 100% physically prepared and still play a vital role, whereas in an individual sport, that's not quite how it works...

I'm with you on that... though I'd argue that only works when you're playing against a weaker opponent...

And honestly, you could say the exact same thing about tennis...

Just look at how things unfolded against the Frenchmen, who were clearly more physically ready than us... suddenly, all those little deficiencies started surfacing...

Adam Collins4 said:Less than ten? Let’s start counting then...

Let me clarify; I didn't mean strictly fewer than ten, though I suppose I was exaggerating a bit... and perhaps not by much, but the underlying point remains valid. I am not attempting to diminish the skill of handball players—truth be told, I actually prefer it over tennis, find it far more engaging, and even played it back in my younger days—but I have to say, it is just harder for tennis players. It isn't a massive chasm, but there is certainly a distinction to be made.😉

I’m not entirely convinced it’s actually harder.
Think about it: tennis players compete in a non-contact sport where active play accounts for only about 20% of their time on court. The remaining 80% consists of breaks between serves and games.
The only area where tennis players truly face a tougher challenge is playing under extreme summer heat during events like the US Open.
In contrast, in handball, you endure constant physical battering—broken bones, torn ligaments, and spine issues, much like what happened to Mocsai. You just don't see that level of impact in tennis.
You find that kind of grit in Australian rugby or similar contact sports.
Top-tier professional handball has evolved into a brutal sport. Even with elite conditioning, an athlete has to be ready for hands to the face, elbows to the ribs, grabbing, shoving, and praying they don't snap a bone. Then, just as they recover from Sunday's beatdown, they're back in the fray by Wednesday—and they repeat this cycle for 5, 10, or even 15 years.

Adam Collins4 said:There’s footage out there...

It’s a bummer they won't be watching guys like Dušebajev, Richardson, Smajlagić, or Bašić...

The list goes on forever... but hey, at least there's video archives...🙂

I get it, I really do, but still...

George Robinson43 said:I'm not sure I see how much harder it actually is.
Tennis players play a non-contact sport where actual effective gameplay accounts for maybe 20% of the time spent on court. The other 80% is just standing there waiting between serves and games.
The only real advantage tennis players have is playing under blistering heat during the summer—specifically during the US Open.
On the flip side, in handball, you deal with constant beatings, broken bones, torn ligaments, and spines that are basically screaming for mercy—you look at guys like Mocsai and realize what we're talking about. You don't see any of that in tennis.
You find that kind of carnage in Australian Rules Football or similar contact sports.
Top-tier professional handball has turned into a brutal sport. Beyond the elite physical conditioning, you have to be ready for hands to the face, elbows to the solar plexus, grabbing, shoving, and just praying to God you don't snap a bone somewhere. And then you recover from the beating on Sunday, only to get hit again on Wednesday—and you do that for 5, 10, 15 years straight.

I'll give you the part about the injuries...

I'll adjust my vocabulary for this one—I don't usually talk like this...

I've broken bones, torn ligaments, been cut up, dealt with meniscus tears...

But you want to know the absolute worst thing I ever went through? Injury-wise...

Getting a thumb to the backside... coming from a center player... caught me after crossing over from the perimeter and charging toward the line... a bit of a weird training scenario, I guess...

Safe to say I haven't repeated that one since...

Adam Collins4 said:Getting absolutely wrecked...from a center half...it caught me totally off guard after crossing from out wide and sprinting toward the goal line...just a bizarre coaching drill concept...

I know damn well I never tried that one again...

🙏🙏🙏

Honestly, one of the most pathetic coaching ideas I've ever seen—it’s actually impressive how the human brain can come up with such garbage🤣

And it bruises the ego, man, big time. That's exactly why you don't go diving into those kinds of insane drills anymore...🤣 🤣

George Robinson43 said:I’m not entirely convinced it’s actually harder.
Tennis players compete in a non-contact sport where actual effective play accounts for maybe 20% of the time on court; the remaining 80% is just an endless cycle of breaks between serves and games.
The only area where tennis players have it worse is enduring those punishingly high temperatures during the summer heat at the US Open.
On the other hand, in handball, you deal with constant physical punishment—broken bones, torn ligaments, and spines that are essentially shot—just look at cases like Mocsai and others. You simply don't see that level of carnage in tennis.
That kind of brutality is more characteristic of Australian rugby or similar contact sports.
Top-tier professional handball has morphed into a brutal game. Beyond elite conditioning, a player has to be prepared for hands to the face, elbows to the solar plexus, grabbing, shoving, and praying to God they don't snap a bone. Then you spend Sunday recovering from the beating, only to face a new one on Wednesday—and this cycle repeats for 5, 10, or even 15 years.

That all makes sense, but when you consider the sheer depth of competition and how much harder it is to succeed in tennis compared to handball due to the massive pool of talent... plus the astronomical amount of luck required to win a single Grand Slam... it changes the equation.

Adam Collins4 said:Regarding tennis, if Federer had even a tiny bit of wit and Ivano Balić’s imagination, he’d be unstoppable...

Look, I'm not denying his talent... the guy is an elite athlete... but he's basically a machine... kind of like Karabatić... or honestly, Dinart...

Balić is all about wit and imagination...

And to wrap up on training and tennis readiness... how exactly did Goran Ivanišević pull off that Wimbledon win?

Was it just pure training, or was there some actual smarts involved?

Man, 🤣
Saying Federer lacks wit and imagination? Dude, just give up on tennis altogether. 😉

Being successful in tennis versus a sport like handball is night and day. To actually make a living in tennis, you have to be top 200—and that's being generous; if you aren't in the top 100, you're probably barely breaking even.

Matthew Anderson4 said:Give me a break, 🤣
Roger Federer apparently lacks wit and imagination? Man, just walk away from tennis entirely 😉

Being successful in both tennis and a sport like handball—that’s incomparable. To actually make a living off tennis, you have to be in the top 200—and I'm being generous there; if you aren't in the top 100, you're basically just paying for the privilege of traveling.

Yeah, because tennis is just overflowing with wit and imagination as it is...

The last guy who showed even a shred of personality was Baghdadis... my bad if I got the name wrong...

Roger Federer is a machine... he performs flawlessly, provided everything is perfectly aligned for him...

Adam Collins4 said:Roger Federer is a machine... one that performs flawlessly, provided every single condition is met perfectly...

Oh, please, give me a break...🤣🤣

If you're only judging by the win column, then do us all a favor and actually watch the matches instead of just following the wind; FedEx has slowed down quite a bit after years of total dominance, yet everyone is suddenly acting like he’s nothing more than a machine that only functions when everything goes his way.

As for the claim that there's no imagination or flair in his game, I'll just let myself have a quiet laugh at that one.😂

Adam Collins4 said:Yeah, tennis is basically just one big joke full of imagination...

The last guy who actually brought some flavor was Baghdadis... sorry if I messed up the name...

Federer is a machine... works perfectly fine as long as everything lines up just right...

Tennis definitely has more flair and creativity than handball. Saying Federer lacks that "soul" and calling him a machine? Only someone who doesn't watch the sport would say that. Honestly, just hop on YouTube and look it up.

darkjackal70 said:Oh, give me a break...🤣🤣

If you’re just staring at the win-loss column, then fine—but maybe actually watch a match for once instead of just checking which way the wind is blowing... FedEx has slowed down a bit after dominating for years, and now everyone acts like he's some kind of machine, provided everything goes perfectly according to plan...

As for saying there's no imagination or flair in his game? Honestly, that just makes me laugh...😂

Go ahead, laugh all you want... I’ve definitely been to more matches than you, and I certainly heard of him before you did...

We aren't total strangers... we were at least around the last time I checked...

The guy has a world-class serve and a controlled shot... stuff he spent years drilling into his game...

So, where exactly is the "lack of imagination" in that?

Matthew Anderson4 said:Tennis definitely has more flair and imagination than handball—period. Saying Roger Federer lacks that kind of creativity and is just some mindless machine is something only someone who doesn't actually watch tennis would say. Besides, you have YouTube; go do a little digging.

Oh, sure... and watching paint dry is more intense than a K-1 fight...

You have YouTube too, so why don't you post a clip to prove it?

I’ll just repeat what I said a moment ago in my previous post... elite service, precise shots... the direct result of years of grueling training...

You claim tennis has more imagination? Well, I could tell you the same thing—you have YouTube, so go find a highlight reel...

It’s just a bit different trying to show off "imagination" when you’re standing in front of six guys—two of whom look ready to take your head off—while playing one of the most injury-prone sports on the planet...

And it's a little different being creative when the only people on your side of the court are ball boys... and, excuse me, the staff who hand you towels because you're sweating too much in your eyes...

darkjackal70 said:Everything is fine, but the level of competition and how much harder it is to succeed in tennis compared to handball—mainly due to the sheer volume of players and competition... and just how many things have to align perfectly for you to win a Grand Slam, for example...

What kind of numbers or competition are we talking about?
It’s a simple fact: there are significantly more professional handball players than there are professional tennis players.
On the ATP rankings, you see 1,000 players listed. However, at least 600-700 of them aren't making a living solely from tennis; they might play a few Challenger events here and there, but you can't truly call them full-time professionals.
Tennis really boils down to about a hundred players, plus maybe five or six elites, and that's the whole game.

Handball is only disadvantaged because it isn't a staple in the US or the United Kingdom. That's why people often assume it sits below ice hockey in status, even though way more people play it and it has a much broader global reach.
Handball doesn't have its own NHL, so it gets pushed to the sidelines immediately, despite the reality being quite the opposite.

Today, handball is a team sport where, after soccer, you find the highest level of competition globally or across Europe. It stands shoulder-to-shoulder with basketball. There are at least 15 national teams out there that can beat anyone.
The EHF recently organized qualifying groups that proved even teams that previously struggled to qualify for major tournaments can now take down the heavyweights.
This clearly shows that the sport is experiencing massive expansion.

Matthew Anderson4 said:Good grief! 🤣
Roger Federer lacks wit and imagination? My friend, you should probably just walk away from tennis altogether 😉

Achieving success in both tennis and a sport like handball is an incomparable feat! To actually make a living off tennis, you have to be in the top 200—and that’s being generous; if you aren't in the top 100, your earnings won't even cover your travel expenses.

To live comfortably from tennis, you need the caliber of someone like Ivo Karlović.
Think about it: in that sport, you can earn $3,000,000 solely from your serve.

Let me reiterate, just in case it wasn't clear—the serve alone brings in $3,000,000 in tennis.

If you fall below the top 100—which essentially means you lack a decent serve, backhand, or forehand and are just some semi-pro playing the Challenger circuit—you can always make a buck by betting against yourself.
That is the grueling reality of a tennis player's life. ☕

Now, consider this: how much physical punishment does Ivano Balić have to endure to earn $3,000,000? Perhaps 5 to 10 years playing in the NFL?
Let’s compare Ivano Balić's imaginary $3,000,000 to Banderin's actual $3,000,000. Let's see who truly bled more to reach those numbers before we try to lecture anyone on how difficult it is to make money in tennis.

Here is another example for you.

Alex Ovechkin over at the Washington Capitals has a contract worth $124,000,000.
To put that in perspective, Ovechkin alone will earn as much as a podium of elite handball players combined over their entire careers, or even double what Roger Federer makes.
We are looking at a sport that isn't nearly as widespread as handball and has a significantly smaller player base.
The bottom line is simply this: it is massive in the US, where sports are tied to an enormous business machine. It is the exact same story with tennis. If it weren't popular in the States, it wouldn't even exist at a professional level. However, since tennis is slightly less dominant in the US than hockey is, you end up with one player like Ovechkin earning as much as both Federer and Rafael Nadal put together.

Adam Collins4 said:As if... watching people brawl is more intense than a K-1 fight...

Go on then, you've got YouTube, post a clip to prove it...

Just repeating what I said earlier... top-tier serve and precise shots... all from years of grinding in training...

Claiming tennis has more imagination... well, you've got YouTube too, go find a highlight reel...

It’s a little different trying to be creative when you’ve got six guys in front of you—two of whom look ready to take your head off—in the most injury-prone sport out there...

And it's a different kind of "imagination" when the only people on your side of the court are ball boys... and, sorry, guys handing you towels because you're sweating too much to see...

Alright, so we've officially established you don't know a thing about tennis.
Roger Federer, one of the GOATs, just has a "top-tier serve and precise shots"?
Yeah right.

George Robinson43 said:How many players and how much competition?
There's way more pro handballers than there are pro tennis players.
The ATP rankings show about 1,000 players. But at least 600-700 of them aren't even living off tennis—they just play some random Challenger matches here and there. You can't really call them pros.
Tennis basically boils down to maybe a hundred guys, plus the top 5 or 6 elites, and that's it.

Spot on. If you aren't in that top hundred, you haven't made it. Top hundred out of how many? Millions who play? In handball, you could play in the German second division and actually make a living. Doesn't happen in tennis.