Magic Johnson: The GOAT, the king, the legend...

We also need to talk about the absolute financial nightmare families go through when they have a kid with actual potential in tennis. Team sports are just a better deal—they’re cheaper, more accessible, and you’ve got a much better shot at actually making it...

Sure, I get why NHL players or NBA stars are pulling in those insane, astronomical contracts—it’s because they’re playing the massive, high-profile sports that dominate the US and Canada, and I'm totally fine with that reality. But then again, you have to ask: why hasn't handball ever really broken through? It’s just not fast enough or flashy enough for the mainstream audience. Whether people want to admit it or not, that’s just how the game works.

Yeah, true. Tennis is way more expensive too. That’s basically why you have to be ranked in the top 100 or 150 just to break even on all those costs.

Alex Cook said:We also really need to talk about the staggering financial sacrifices families have to make when they have a child with genuine tennis potential. It’s a massive undertaking, isn't it? Compared to that, team sports are honestly a dream—they're much more affordable and naturally reach so many more people. Doesn't it just seem like the path to success is a lot more accessible in those settings?

It makes perfect sense that hockey players in the NHL or basketball stars in the NBA pull in those astronomical contracts, mostly because those sports have such massive, established followings in the US and Canada. I definitely agree with that logic, but it really makes you wonder, though—why hasn't handball ever managed to break into that mainstream popularity? Is it simply because the game doesn't feel fast enough or flashy enough to capture the average viewer's attention? Whether people like admitting it or not, that seems to be the reality of the situation.

Is he just not that popular in America for one specific reason, much like how soccer struggles to find its footing here?

Since there aren't any breaks during the matches, I wonder if that leaves much room at all for running commercials?

And honestly, isn't that really the only reason?

Matthew Anderson4 said:Alright, so we've officially reached the point where it's clear you don't know the first thing about tennis.
Are you seriously suggesting that Roger Federer, one of the greatest to ever pick up a racket, is limited to just a top-tier serve and a steady baseline game?
Yeah right

Federer and Nadal have basically owned this sport for years now, haven't they?

But then you have this one player who spends more than half the year out fishing or driving rally cars, only to show up at three tournaments and absolutely demolish everyone in his path.🤣

It’s pretty wild how elite sports actually work, isn't it?

Matthew Anderson4 said:Exactly. Unless you’re in the top hundred, you aren't really making it. But out of how many? Millions of people playing? Take handball, for example. You could play in the German second division and actually make a living. That kind of stability just doesn't exist in tennis.

😂

Think about it this way: you play tennis, realize you aren't quite at the pro level, and decide to move to Germany to coach wealthy kids. You’ll likely end up earning more than a handball player in the second division!
That isn't an option in handball, yet hundreds of thousands—probably millions—of people live very comfortable lives through tennis in that exact manner.
It seems to me you only follow tennis via TV and internet forums, which leads you to believe everyone ranked outside the top 100 is basically broke.

Yes, precisely. Tennis is significantly more expensive. That is the core reason why you practically have to be in the top 100 or 150 just to cover your basic overhead.

If people actually listened to you, they would start wondering how anyone survives on the Challenger or Futures circuits.

George Robinson43 said:If you want to actually make a living in tennis, you need to have a serve like John Isner.
Look, in this sport, you can bank $3,000,000 just off your service alone.

Let me repeat that in case it didn't sink in— just having a killer serve in tennis nets you $3,000,000.

If you're ranked outside the top 100 (which basically means you don't have a serve, a backhand, OR a forehand and you're just some semi-pro playing the Challenger circuit), you can always make a quick buck betting against yourself.
So much for the "struggling pro" life. ☕

Now, how many hits does LeBron James have to take to earn $3,000,000? Maybe 5-10 years playing in the Bundesliga?
Let's compare LeBron's imaginary $3,000,000 to Banderin's actual $3,000,000 and see who actually bled more to get there before you start lecturing us on how hard it is to make money in tennis.

John Isner has arguably the best serve of all time, period. It's obvious you don't realize how massive the serve is in tennis. If your serve sucks, it's like playing handball 20 minutes short-handed!

Alex Cook said:We also have to consider the massive financial sacrifices made by families with a talented kid in tennis. Team sports are much more accessible, affordable, and can reach a wider audience. It’s generally easier to find success there.

.

Sacrificing various aspects of life is a fundamental requirement for achieving success in any athletic endeavor whatsoever.
Do you honestly believe kids in team sports win Golden Boot awards while they're out partying, smoking, or just being reckless?
In fact, if you look at tennis players, many actually manage to complete their college degrees while competing on the tour. So, what kind of "sacrifice" are we even talking about here?

Look, you're posting in the ATP/WTA thread, so I’m assuming you actually know what you're talking about.
First off, I'm deep in the tennis world and I know guys hovering around the top 200. Not saying they're broke or struggling to eat, though.
I just checked the ATP site and typed in Bozoljac(133.) on a whim—turns out reaching the quarterfinals of a Challenger in Wolfsburg nets you maybe $530. It sounds okay until you subtract travel, coaches, and all those little expenses. Then what's left?
A few years back, Ljubo was paying his fitness coach $20,000 a month. Who knows what Piatti is pulling these days?

As for the other thing. Breaking into coaching isn't easy, but once you make it, there's serious money involved. I personally know a coach pulling in about $11 $0.00 a month just from private lessons.

Peter Ramos26 said:John Isner has quite simply the greatest serve in history, plain and simple. It’s clear you don't grasp just how vital a dominant serve is in tennis. Having a weak serve is essentially like playing handball with one less man on the court for 20 minutes of a match!

And how many minutes would you be playing short-handed in handball if you lacked a backhand, footwork, lobs, drop shots, and everything else that Isner doesn't possess?
Are we talking about playing 360 minutes shorthanded in a 60-minute game?

George Robinson43 said:How many minutes do you even get on the court in handball if you can't hit a backhand, move your feet, lob, drop shot, or do anything else that John Isner lacks?
Playing 360 minutes down a man in a 60-minute game?

Look, as much as I love talking trash about Isner, you're exaggerating. He’s got the best serve on the ATP tour and his volleys are solid. Given his build and how he plays, he doesn't even need the rest of his game to be world-class.

Matthew Anderson4 said:Look, I see you're posting in the ATP/WTA thread, so I assume you actually know a thing or two about this.

Exactly. I started posting over on the number one site. ☕

First off, I am deeply involved in tennis and I personally know people ranked around 200. I'm certainly not suggesting they are paupers struggling to survive every single day.

But hold on. Just a few posts ago, you were claiming a player needs to be around rank 100 just to break even on expenses.
How exactly does the crew ranked 200 or 300 stay afloat while grinding through Challengers twelve months a year? Does money just fall from the sky like it did back in Mojsijev's era?

So, I went over to the ATP website and randomly typed in Bozoljac (ranked 133rd), and saw he earned 530€ for reaching the quarterfinals of a Challenger in Wolfsburg. It sounds like decent money, but once you subtract travel, coaches, and all those little extras, what's actually left?

Perhaps Bozoljac will finally find his footing when he starts tossing pizzas at a local shop. He might actually earn more there than he does in pro tennis right now! ☕

A few years back, Ljubo was paying his fitness coach 20,000€ a month. Who knows how much Piatti pulls in.

A fitness coach making 20,000$? Maybe Piatti makes 50,000$?
If he was paying Piatti 50,000 a month, then Piatti basically wiped out everything he earned. It seems Ljubičić didn't actually make any money; he's likely just drowning in debt because of Piatti.
Let's start a fundraiser to help Ljubo ljubiti trubiti.

Regarding the second point. Becoming a coach isn't easy, but it's true that once you make it, there is significant money involved. I personally know a coach who currently earns about 11 $0.00 a month working roughly six hours a day.

One such individual works in the office right next to mine.
Basically, this guy puts in an eight-hour workday and clears about $1833, and then heads to the courts in the afternoon to earn more than double his monthly salary—all without pulling six-hour coaching sessions daily.
He is someone who walked away from tennis at age 19 because things just weren't clicking for him.

No clue what Peyton Manning is pulling in. Pretty sure he's just getting paid as a trainer though.

We really need to get that 143 miles/h serve back in play. I mean... his volley is solid, but that serve? Total Vince Lombardi style!!

I surrender.
It seems two self-proclaimed tennis experts have finally emerged from the shadows. ☕

George Robinson43 said:Here is another perspective.

Alex Ovechkin on the Washington Capitals is sitting on a $124,000,000 contract.
To put that in context, Ovechkin’s career earnings alone could arguably fund an entire group of elite handball players for their whole careers, or perhaps match what Roger Federer makes twice over.
We are looking at a sport that doesn't have the global footprint of handball and carries a much smaller player base.
The reality is quite simple: it is massive in the US, where sports are inextricably linked to a colossal business machine. You see the exact same dynamic with tennis. If it weren't for the American market, professional tennis wouldn't even exist in its current form. However, since tennis isn't quite as dominant in the US as hockey is, you end up with a single player like Ovechkin pulling in as much as Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal combined.

How many years is that contract actually for? Once you factor in the taxes and all those other deductions, how much do you honestly think he walks away with per season?

January, for sure, just enough time to get some whole grain bread started

Honestly, who can blame Magic Johnson for being a bit too flashy? It’s not his fault hockey was just too physical for his style.😁😁
As for tennis, he was never built to be a graceful dancer like Roger Federer or some towering, silent powerhouse like Carlos.😁

Does anyone know how much they're charging for a whole grain meal these days?

Samuel Baker3 said:there’s a reason it isn't huge in the States, just like soccer...

the game doesn't stop constantly, so there's no room to shove ads down people's throats

and honestly, that's the whole thing

If that's really the issue, then screw it—let's just reinvent the damn thing. You bring handball to the US, call it...🤔...the NHA, maybe? Run four 15-minute quarters instead of two 30-minute halves, throw in two timeouts per quarter, and boom—you've got endless slots for commercials. Just roll with it.
Look, rules can be bent to make sponsors happy if that's what it takes.

I mean, the whole sporting culture in the US versus Europe is just fundamentally different—that's why baseball never really caught on in Europe. Sure, people know about it, they follow it, but it always feels kind of abstract over there.

And look, no matter how much you handball fanatics try to deny it, handball isn't exactly easy to love. Even with how much faster the game has gotten lately, it still feels pretty formulaic... nothing stands out from the rest. That’s why Magic Johnson was such a freak of nature—he took those unorthodox moves he learned on the basketball court 😍 and dragged the sport onto a completely different level.

George Robinson43 said:Denying all kinds of sacrifices is basically impossible if you want to succeed in any sport.
Do you seriously think kids in team sports can just spend their time drinking, smoking, partying, and acting like idiots and then go out and win gold medals or whatever else?
Just look at tennis—those players are finishing college degrees while competing at the highest level. What kind of "sacrifice" are we even talking about here?

I’m talking about the specific sacrifice I mentioned earlier—the financial one. Nobody is handing you a guarantee that you'll actually become an elite tennis player. Not every kid training for tennis comes from money.
For instance, obviously, the kid of a warehouse worker or a clerk at Walmart isn't going to have a shot at pro tennis, but the kid of two high school professors might. But even then, there’s a massive catch: the kid has to be insanely talented, and the parents have to be willing to tank their own standard of living just to fund the kid's training.

As for team sports, yeah, you still need sacrifice there too. That's why a local politician will never become a Thierry Henry.🙂
The only real difference is that in a team sport, you're actually allowed to have a bad day. That's it.

Matthew Anderson4 said:Alright, so we’ve officially reached the point where it’s clear you don't know the first thing about tennis.
Roger Federer—one of the absolute greatest to ever pick up a racket—is nothing more than a guy with a decent serve and a steady shot?
Yeah right

Oh, how wonderful it is to see someone pivot to an ad hominem attack just because their argument is falling apart...

The greatest of all time... well, maybe Pete Sampras is the only one better...

Let me say this again: the idea that there's "more humor" in tennis is just ridiculous... I'm honestly just waiting for someone to start making the same claims about baseball, cricket, or whatever else...

And by the way, where did all that "humor" go during those calls against Andy Murray?

Alex Cook said:We also can't ignore the insane financial sacrifices families make when they have a kid with actual tennis potential. Team sports are just better for most people—they're cheap, they draw huge crowds, and honestly, it's a lot easier to find success there.

Look, I completely agree that hockey players in the NHL or basketball stars in the NBA pull in astronomical contracts—that's just a byproduct of those being massive, mainstream sports in the USA and Canada. But then you have to ask: why hasn't handball ever broken through? It’s because it isn't fast enough or flashy enough for the average viewer. Whether people want to admit it or not, that's just the reality of the market.

Handball has actually picked up a serious amount of speed over the last decade...

Just watch any game from the German league and I bet you'll change your mind...