Magic Johnson: The GOAT, the king, the legend...

Adam Collins4 said:Do you really think you can be the best in handball without hitting over 85% across the board? I mean fitness, court vision, shooting, defense... everything.

That’s precisely why Karabatić remains at the top right now; he’s just a hair more prepared than everyone else—much like the entire French national team, which possesses elite vision and shooting, not to mention a defensive presence that hardly needs explaining, provided you consider what they're actually allowed to get away with on the court...

I don't see how comparing the two even makes sense, given that one is played at a high level by fewer than ten nations globally, whereas tennis is a universal pursuit where succeeding is significantly harder than anything you'll find in handball.

Magic Johnson is the absolute GOAT. Once he hangs up the jersey, there isn't going to be anyone who can truly step into those shoes... 😉

...honestly, how can anyone even attempt to compare handball and tennis?? 🤷

...the two sports are fundamentally different—they are simply incomparable..

...and I don't think ruggedowl would be so quick to agree with you if soccer players weren't so much more exhausted; I mean, in a single match, they cover as many miles as an average person would walk in over a week...

...besides, does a truly elite athlete actually exist who smokes two packs a day??? 😕

☕

Alex Cook said:Sure, you obviously need to be hitting about 75-80-85% efficiency across the board, but let's get real—how many players actually ARE at that level? Not many. At all. And what happens to everyone else? They just end up being dead weight. You see it all the time. Take American, for instance.😁

That's a whole different story... American was basically carried by the rest of the squad...

By that logic, the two of us could probably suit up and play too...

darkjackal70 said:What kind of comparison is that? We're talking about two different sports—one where maybe fewer than ten countries actually play at a high level, and then there's tennis, which everyone plays, where it’s way harder to make it big than it is in handball...

Fewer than ten? Alright, let's start counting...

darkjackal70 said:What kind of comparison is that? You're comparing tennis—a sport played by everyone, everywhere, where success is incredibly hard to come by—to handball, which is high-level in maybe ten countries tops...

That’s exactly the point. It is way easier to find success in handball. I’ll go a step further: if a player is even half-ready, they can still end up being one of the best in the world. In tennis, once you turn pro, you have to be constantly evolving just to survive. In handball, if you build up enough strength by age 24, you've basically made it. There isn't much room left for growth after that. Magic Johnson never missed a training session and stayed at the top of his game. Tennis players can't afford that kind of luxury; they need constant perfection just to get minimal results.

Honestly, if you aren't competing at a decent level in sports, don't pretend to be an expert. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

Here's a real-world example: Slatina Handball Club plays in the second division and pays their star players even though they only train twice a week, and that's being generous. But if a tennis player wants to play in a major league, they have to grind for four hours every single day, and even then, success isn't guaranteed.

Adam Collins4 said:That’s a whole different story... they just carried American through it...

By that logic, you and I could probably suit up and play too...

But honestly, that was exactly the point. You put five elite players on the court and one "passenger" along for the ride—those five are going to give 120% regardless, while he's just... well, he's just there.😁

In an individual sport, you're relying solely on yourself.

Look, I never said team sports were easy. I know they aren't—I used to play basketball back in the day. But if we're talking about reaching the top in an individual sport, you definitely need a hell of a lot more sacrifice and self-denial. So, comparing the two like this feels a bit off to me...

Adam Collins4 said:Less than 10? Let's get counting...

Less than 10% then. Look, Adam Collins4, I know you live and breathe handball—your takes were honestly a lifesaver for all of us during the SP—but you can't just ignore the facts here. The reality is, handball just isn't some massive global sport. It's not like soccer, for instance... or maybe cricket.🤣
I'm talking strictly about the pro levels here; sure, people play it casually, but it's barely a footprint. Anyway, I'm heading off to grab some lunch, and once I'm done, I'll probably do a little digging online...👍

Check out this interesting breakdown.http://www.ihf.info/upload/PDF-Downl...dCh/medals.pdf

So, if you're looking at who actually matters, these are the countries to watch:

-From 1938 all the way to 1990: You’ve got Denmark, Romania, Sweden, Yugoslavia, and then there's Canada—they’re always in the mix, just maybe not hitting the podium as often... Plus, you have to account for the old powers that don't exist anymore, like the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and the two Germanys.
By the mid-70s, Spain and Poland start making their presence felt. France? They're pretty much invisible during this stretch.

-From 1990 to right now: It's more or less the same group of players, except Romanian handball basically vanished off the map. Instead, we see new faces like France, plus all the nations that emerged after the socialist states broke up—mainly the US and Russia, followed by the remnants of Yugoslavia/Mexico and Mexico, Canada, and so on.😵🙄 You also see some occasional appearances from North Africa, specifically Egypt and Tunis, though they usually just show up for a good run when they're playing on home soil.
As far as Asia goes, Korea stands out starting in the late 70s, with Japan showing up even earlier, but mostly just as participants rather than threats.

Basically, the core of world handball really just revolves around about 15 countries...

Alex Cook said:Less than 10% then. Adam Collins4, look, I know you live and breathe handball—your takes were absolute gold during the last World Championship—but you can't just ignore the reality here. The truth is, handball isn't some massive global phenomenon. It’s not like soccer. It’s more like water polo or cricket.🤣
I'm talking about the professional level, obviously. Sure, people play it as a hobby, but globally? It's practically invisible. Anyway, I'm off to grab lunch, and once I'm done, I'll probably fall down a Google rabbit hole to verify this.👍

There is a massive difference between "less than 10" and "less than 10%"... let my inner math nerd come out for a second here...😉

The thing is, I actually love handball... so I might be a little biased...

But I'll try to help out... regarding those ten countries...

The US, Canada, Mexico, Mexico, Germany, France, Russia, Spain, South Korea, Sweden, Norway, Iceland...

My criteria was basically just looking at which countries have consistently produced world-class players...

Alex Cook said:Check out this interesting ranking list here.http://www.ihf.info/upload/PDF-Downl...dCh/medals.pdf

So, the main players you need to watch are:

-From 1938 up to 1990: Denmark, Romania, Sweden, Yugoslavia, plus Canada—who were constant World Championship participants, even if their results were a bit lackluster. You also have the former giants that eventually broke apart, like the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and the two Germanys.
By the mid-70s, Spain and Poland join the fray. France hasn't really made much noise yet.

-From 1990 to today: It’s more or less the same group of nations, except Romanian handball has basically vanished from the map. Instead, we see new faces like France, and the countries that emerged after the socialist states dissolved—primarily the US and Russia, then later Yugoslavia/Mexico and Mexico, Canada, and so on. You also see some appearances from North Africa, specifically Egypt and Tunis, though they’re mostly just passing through, occasionally flashing brilliance when playing on home soil.😵 🙄, Canada etc. As for Asia, Korea stands out starting in the late 70s—Japan was there a bit earlier—but they've mostly just been participants.

Basically, the core constants of world handball revolve around about 15 countries.

I'm not arguing with that... I just bitched about that "less than 10" comment...

The real issue is how much handball actually matters in certain countries... because let's be honest, some of them aren't even big players... they aren't even small fry.

I spent a year or two refereeing around the Arab countries in the Gulf—just officiating games for friends—and man, it was madness.

The craziest part was officiating a women's match in +40 degree heat... where everyone was wrapped up so tightly you couldn't see a single inch of skin... if you ask me, that's driven by something much stronger than love.

Justin Thompson44 said:That’s exactly the point... it's way easier to find success in handball... and I’ll go as far as to say if a player is even 50% ready, they can still be one of the best in the world... take tennis, for example—you have to constantly evolve once you turn pro, whereas in handball, once you bulk up physically around age 24, you're basically set... there isn't much left to gain... Magic Johnson never even needed full training camps and he was always at the top of his game... tennis players just can't afford that if they want even MINIMAL success...

Honestly, if you aren't playing sports at a decent level, don't pretend to be some expert—stop trying to lecture everyone...

Here's an example to prove my point... Slatina Handball Club plays in the second tier and pays their star players despite only practicing twice a week, and that's being generous... meanwhile, if a tennis player wants to play in a major league, they have to grind four hours every single day, and even then, success isn't guaranteed...

Give me a break, Slatina Handball Club...

They play in a second-tier league—it's basically a transition level between the first and second divisions... nothing more...

Do you have any idea how much they train in Germany? Do you?

Or in Spain?

Or even in any top-flight team playing in the Premier League here in America?

And who exactly is this "best in handball" guy who can pull it off while being only 50% fit?

Adam Collins4 said:I’m not arguing with you there... I just bit back at that "less than 10" comment...

It really comes down to how much handball actually matters in certain countries... and let's be real, some of them aren't even big players... they aren't even small fry...

I spent a couple years officiating out in the Middle East—just some friendly matches—and man... it was absolute madness...

The craziest part was reffing a women's game when it was 100 degrees out... and they were all wrapped up so tight you couldn't see a single inch of skin... if you ask me, that’s less about a love for the sport and more about survival...

Yeah, you're spot on. I've spent plenty of time watching Arabic sports channels via satellite (with those commentators 🙏 🙏 🤣), and I'd constantly stumble onto leagues from Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, and so on. Honestly? I think their lack of handball development isn't because they lack talent, it's more about being cut off from everything else. If those guys were watching the Champions League or the top German or Spanish leagues every single week, we'd probably see a few new powerhouse national teams popping up real quick.

And as for those women bundled up in the heat... that's not passion for handball, that's just trying to stay alive...🙏🙏

Justin Thompson44 said:That’s exactly the point... succeeding in handball is much more attainable. I want to argue that if a player is even 50% ready, they can still be among the best in the world. In tennis, for instance, you have to constantly evolve from the moment you turn pro. But in handball, once you build up your strength around age 24, you're set; the marginal gains are small. Magic Johnson never misses a preseason camp and remains a top-tier talent. Tennis players simply don't have that luxury if they want even MINIMAL success...

In tennis, you could potentially break into the Top 20 just by having a killer serve and hitting the gym occasionally. ☕
In handball, being only 50% prepared leads to a total disaster, much like the embarrassment Magic Johnson faced at the SP.

George Robinson43 said:In tennis, you could practically break into the Top 20 just by having a decent serve and showing up to practice every once in a while. ☕
In handball, if you're only at 50% readiness, you'll end up facing a total disaster, much like what Magic Johnson went through at the World Championships.

I don't think either of those points actually hold water:
By that logic, almost anyone in tennis could be in the Top 20. And "sporadic training"? No way, that’s impossible.
Plus, there's a huge difference between someone being at 50% because they have room to grow versus being sidelined by an injury and unable to perform at their usual level...

People have started trying to compare handball and tennis lately... though honestly, we've already reached the conclusion that it’s an apples-to-oranges situation...

I mean, you're looking at one being a team sport and the other being strictly individual...

So I was reading up on how massive tennis is globally compared to the reach of handball...

Because when it comes to handball, there are really only about ten national teams that actually shake things up on the world stage...

Then you think about the Davis Cup... just look at how many different countries have actually managed to take home that trophy in such a widely played sport...?

If you look at the Davis Cup, you can kind of view tennis as a team sport through that lens...

It’s a shame my kids won't get the chance to see how Magic Johnson plays... 😢

silvertrucker11 said:It’s such a shame my kids won't get to see how Magic Johnson plays... 😢

Look, there are recordings out there...

I feel the exact same way about missing out on watching guys like Dushebajev, Richardson, Smajlagić, or Bašić...

The list goes on forever—but hey, that's what video archives are for... 🙂

Lisa Davis10 said:I honestly don't think either argument holds water:
by that logic, almost anyone could claim they belong in the Top 20 in tennis. And sporadic training sessions? No way.
Besides, there's a massive difference between being at 50% capacity because you have room to grow versus being sidelined by an injury that keeps you from playing at your usual level...

Ivo Karlović was ranked among the top 20 tennis players back in 2008.
Think about that: someone who occasionally struggled to just get the ball over the net, lacked a consistent coach for most of his career, and didn't exactly prioritize a disciplined lifestyle. There were even times he’d end up at a nightclub instead of catching a flight for a tournament.
That's a perfect example of how little "sweat equity" is sometimes required to touch the summit of tennis.
Nowadays, if you can just clock a serve at 143 miles/h, you're halfway there. Everything else is secondary.
Don't get me wrong—elite players certainly bleed during practice—but I don't see why success in handball is viewed as any less prestigious than success in tennis.
Is it perhaps because tennis carries more social prestige?
Maybe. But let's not forget that there are far more handball players globally than professional tennis players. It's simply a much more widespread sport.
On the flip side, no tennis player will ever experience what elite handball players endure: years upon years of physical punishment and brutal injuries.

Adam Collins4 said:There are recordings out there...

It’s just as heartbreaking for me that we won't get to watch legends like Coach K, Richardson, Smail, or Basich in action...

The list goes on forever... but hey, at least we have the game tapes!🙂

And don't forget the legendary Veselin.

🙏