Big Pharma's criminal underworld

Kyle Nelson2 said:Just tell me why Aspirin wouldn't get approved today...

It’s because of its primary job—acting as a painkiller and fever reducer—but it also has this massive (I might even say huge) effect on blood clotting. Nowadays, it’s totally standard for patients who've had a heart attack or stroke to take it just to prevent another one from happening. A drug that hits two completely different types of issues that hard? It probably wouldn't pass registration in today's world...

Look, when people are hunting for a cure, they compare any potential candidate against whatever the current gold standard is. They look at efficacy, side effects, and manufacturing costs. A new drug can make it to market if it performs on par with the best one out there—it doesn't necessarily have to be better.
When there isn't an actual cure for a specific disease, you just deal with whatever you can find. Take HIV therapy, for example. It doesn't actually cure anyone; it just stretches out their life, even though the side effects can wreck your liver and stuff.
It’s obviously up to the patient whether they want to live longer or just skip the meds entirely. I guess the industry always tries to extend life expectancy and improve quality of life, which I think is a good thing, even if some people disagree.
Accutane has some nasty side effects, so naturally, it's reserved for the most severe cases.
There's no deep philosophy here—believe me, if I had acne covering half my body, I'd just take it and call it a day.

The side effects from Aspirin aren't exactly going to kill you. I mean, when was the last time you heard about someone dying from Aspirin?
And how many lives has it actually saved?
The word "drug" itself comes from Greek roots meaning "poison," which basically means if you take too much, you end up in a coffin. Like that Lipitor from Pfizer that Americans were taking in massive doses—well, you know how that turned out.

Personally, I respect pharmacists because they're usually the first ones to talk trash about medications (you wouldn't believe them). They're the ones pushing healthy lifestyles and always lecturing us about some silly supplements—like Silicic earth that you used to play with in the sand as a kid, or Pectin, which is just dried apple peel that some people bother peeling.

I'm personally all for deregulation and a free market, because then cheaper alternative treatments can actually get noticed faster.
For instance, instead of popping Accutane, you could just buy a few pounds of black radishes for $3.25 dollars, eat them like a salad, and see if you feel better.

If you're constipated, don't go grabbing enemas; just take some aloe vera tablets from Amway and you'll be fine in two or three days.

But, people just don't know, and that's why the internet and doctor's advice exist, I guess...

Regarding depression, I kind of condemn the way psychiatry works sometimes—they just hand you a pill without having a serious conversation, and that's how you end up with emotional invalids. That's probably why we're seeing more and more movements toward things like meditation (TM, Reiki, etc.).

Kyle Nelson2 said:The side effects of Aspirin aren't really a big deal—it's not like it's unhealthy. I mean, have you ever actually heard of someone dying from taking Aspirin?

Oh, please... people definitely died from Aspirin. You had women dealing with massive hemorrhaging during their periods... and then there were folks in their 60s popping an Aspirin every single day because they thought it was "healthy"—can you even imagine how much that messed with their ability to clot?...

I used to have this really solid link saved somewhere, if I can just track it down, I'll post it...

This isn't quite what you're looking for, but it should give Kyle Nelson2 a reality check about how safe Aspirin actually is:

A decade ago, before the advent of Cox-2 inhibitors, the leading cause of death in women over 65 in the United States was bleeding from aspirin-related ulcers, said Dr. Joel Levin, professor of medicine and director of the colon cancer center at the University of Connecticut health center.

link

The side effects from Aspirin aren't really significant enough to be considered unhealthy. I mean, when have you actually heard of someone dying from Aspirin?

This is the second time you've directed this at me regarding Aspirin, even though I wasn't even the one who brought it up in the first place.

about some silly pills (for instance, Silicic earth

To some, it’s just a useless pill, while to others, it’s basically homeopathy. That’s exactly what my girlfriend is buying—she's pregnant, after all.

The point here isn't to debate whether a specific drug is "good" or "bad," or to weigh its benefits against its risks... It’s about the fact that CERTAIN MEDICATIONS should never have been allowed on the market in the first place—drugs I could list myself, along with another forty or so—because they carry life-threatening side effects without actually treating the condition they were prescribed for. Or they might clear up your acne, sure, but leave you with LIFETIME BLINDNESS in exchange (and yes, I have the references for that)... Just because I don't need to know how to lay hardwood floors or perform my own dental work doesn't mean I shouldn't expect professionals to protect a layman like me from drugs that are genuinely dangerous. It reminds me of how many people in places like India don't have reliable internet access and then get judged for not being "properly informed." Honestly...
You're struggling to find solid arguments in this discussion, but since I happen to have some actual medical literature at home—not just yellow journalism—I can keep this going if necessary... 🙂

Look, there’s this book on general pharmacology out there where they explain things pretty clearly.
Basically, any medication you take only starts working once it hits a certain level in your bloodstream; if it stays just below that threshold, it’s basically useless. On the flip side, if you take too much, it becomes straight-up toxic. That's common sense, honestly.
You can overdose on pretty much any drug.

Take Aspirin, for example. I don't get why anyone would be popping that every single day just because they think it's "healthy." If you ate nothing but apples every day, you'd probably end up feeling sick too.

The same logic applies to something like Lipitor for lowering triglycerides.

So, there's this textbook called "General Pharmacology"

I don't see how that’s relevant here—one is just theory (which is what you're stuck on) while everyone else is actually discussing real-world practice and specific drugs that professional associations have recommended for bans.

Aspirin. I honestly don't get why anyone would take that stuff every single day just because they think it's "healthy." If I ate apples every day, I'd be sick of them by now.

Right, well, you used to see it in the papers all the time—Aspirin being suggested for prevention. Rachel Brooks63 already explained why she thinks that...

That apple comparison—please, don't embarrass yourself. I eat apples (usually two or three) every day between meals, and I'm perfectly fine... feeling stronger than ever, actually.

Maybe we should just look at the ratio of people who actually had their lives saved by Aspirin—or any other meds, really—versus those who ended up dying because of them. That’s how you get a real sense of the practice, I guess.

Kyle Nelson2 said:If we just weighed the number of people who had their lives or health saved by Aspirin—and other drugs for that matter—against those who died because of them, we’d have ourselves a real practice...

Why are you so fixated on Aspirin? Honestly, I think there are far more dangerous drugs out there than that. You clearly don't want to see the photos of children whose mothers were prescribed banned medications during pregnancy—drugs that are strictly prohibited now, but back then, they were basically being used as experimental trials while the companies just lied about it...

Why close your eyes to the fact that while there are decent medicines on the market, there are also ones that shouldn't be there at all?

Maybe I was wrong about the Aspirin thing...
I only meant to point out that the way we test drugs today is miles ahead of where things were decades ago. I know, obviously, it’s still not perfect.

Just look at what happened with Thalidomide—that's the proof right there. It wasn't even in an experimental phase; doctors just started handing it out to pregnant women without ever actually testing it on them first. That was a massive, unforgivable mistake that you just can't make excuses for.

But honestly, calling the entire pharmaceutical industry criminal...

Because someone brought up how he’s one of those unhealthy ones, and honestly, they're used way too much these days. As for the rest of these drugs, here are the actual facts:

1. You’re talking about Thalidomide from back in the sixties and those so-called thalidomide babies.
2. They weren't even experimental drugs; it was just one
3. It wasn't some experiment, it was just a standard sedative for nerves.
4. Nobody was lying about any of it.
5. Showing pictures of those kids is just a tactic to pull at heartstrings, stir up the masses, trigger protests, and basically call for people to be lynched in the streets. That isn't how I do things, but maybe it is yours.

I just want to know one thing. What's actually a good alternative to Aspirin these days? Specifically for when I've got a low-grade fever, like somewhere between 98 and 100 F.

(just please don't even bring up Voltaren)

So, following what the CDC recommends these days—if your fever stays under 100.4°F, you usually don't even need to reach for the meds...

My bad... I phrased that poorly... I meant from 100 to 102 degrees (because once the fever gets any higher than that, aspirin doesn't really do much anyway)

Acetaminophen—but seriously, don't go overboard with it. Like, at all. If you push past the recommended dose, you start dealing with totally different metabolites that are straight-up toxic to your liver...

And look, as long as you aren't allergic and don't have any issues with blood clotting, you can just take some aspirin.

Alright then... so, is there actually any non-toxic alternative for aspirin?

Kyle Nelson2 said:It’s because someone brought up how it’s one of those unhealthy ones—and honestly, it's still widely used today. As for the other medications, here's the reality of the situation:

1. You’re talking about Thalidomide from back in the sixties and the whole "thalidomide babies" era.
2. Those weren't experimental drugs; they were just one single thing.
3. It wasn't some rogue experiment, either—it was a standard sedative for nerves...
4. Nobody was lying about what happened.
5. Using photos of those children is just a way to pull at heartstrings, stir up the masses, spark protests, and essentially call for people to be burned at the stake. That isn't my style... though maybe it's yours.

I’m discussing several different drugs—specifically certain classes of medication—and the more we talk, the more I start to suspect you don't have a medical background. You really ought to know the side effects caused by things like anticonvulsants or cytostatics if we're going to keep this conversation going...

I only care about one thing. What drug is actually used today as an alternative to aspirin—meaning, something to bring down a fever between 98 and 100 degrees?

Are you thinking of Aspirin as a specific brand-name product, or just any medication containing acetylsalicylic acid? Because there are over twenty different versions out there from various pharmaceutical companies—like Quadronal, Togal, and so on...

Kyle Nelson2 said:Alright then... so is there actually any non-toxic substitute for aspirin?

Look, Tylenol isn't exactly toxic—unless you decide to chug X%^& tablets all at once (honestly, I don't even know the exact threshold where things go south)

You could always brew some willow bark tea... you'd still be getting salicylates, which is basically just the molecular cousin of acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin), but hey, at least you can call it "natural"...😁

Matthew Sullivan32 said:Are you talking about Aspirin as a specific brand-name drug, or just any medication containing acetylsalicylic acid? Because there are easily over twenty different versions out there from all sorts of big pharma companies (like Quadronal, Togal, etc.)

I mean alternative options, not just the same old generic stuff.

Taroth said:My bad... I phrased that poorly... I meant from 38 to 39 degrees (since aspirin doesn't really do much once you hit those higher temps)

Hold up a second! You’re using nothing but scare tactics, just like the big pharma companies do! 😉