Fuck Dana White: negotiations, contracts, coke, and hookers

What a mess... 😠
Just before his UFC 270 bout, Francis Ngannou’s camp got hit with an email claiming they were being sued simply because he had conversations with Jake Paul’s manager.

https://i.redd.it/ocvzwkkliqd81.jpg

Why are you getting so worked up?
Everyone jumps to calling Dan White an exploiter, but let’s be real: he and Dana White built this entire circus that allows guys like Ngannou to find fame in the first place. Everyone wants a seat at that table. Besides, Ngannou signed a contract that was basically a dream come true at the time. That’s just how business works.
Do we actually want the UFC to turn into boxing? Because if they do, we'll just end up watching ultra-rich superstars fight once every three years while we sit around waiting for press conferences instead of actual fights. Looking back, the UFC hasn't had a single year where the card quality didn't absolutely smash previous records. Why would Dana White change a winning formula?

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There’s this super interesting little detail regarding this contract dispute. It turns out some antitrust law—call it a regulation or a ruling, whatever—basically forced the UFC's hand to let Frank walk if he wants to. We're talking a full year of inactivity or just three fights. They didn't have a loophole like that before, which is probably why Dana went absolutely ballistic after Frank's win. This time, they're actually facing the real possibility of their champ jumping ship. And honestly, even if he leaves for somewhere else, how is the next guy supposed to be marketed as the toughest man on the planet? He won't. Not if Frank takes that belt with him.

I find it absolutely staggering that they don't even have health insurance coverage 🙏

In my view, the solution is quite straightforward: they simply need to grant fighters more comprehensive rights and significantly better compensation packages. If the organization is truly as successful as they claim to be, or even as successful as people generally believe...

I guess I’m starting to find Frank a little more likable again 😬

Look, the UFC is just a company that puts on fight events, but they act like they’re some massive corporate employer.

It's like, I'm your boss, but you're just a day laborer. You don't get benefits, you don't have a formal contract, nothing. Yet, somehow, you still have to sign some paper saying you won't go work for my neighbor from Monday to Friday. It's ridiculous...

Man, these guys are out here signing these shady-ass contracts that would probably get tossed out of any US court instantly, but these fighters are broke. They don't have the cash to take on a mega-corporation in a legal battle...

Nothing is going to change here as long as every fighter on the planet is dreaming about being the UFC champion. There's maybe ten champions, but hundreds of fighters... 2% make the real money, the rest are just struggling to survive.

They operate like a bottom-tier company that pays peanuts and expects you to work three shifts, 24/7. Companies like that don't change their ways as long as people are begging for jobs. One guy leaves, another walks in. A company never goes under just because its best worker quit. And the UFC won't either.

Until fighters realize the pay is pathetic compared to the slave-like conditions and the actual beatings they take, nothing changes. And honestly? That’s probably never gonna happen.

The UFC brand keeps growing, and there will always be kids who think that belt is worth more than all the money in the world. But once they wake up in 10 or 15 years and realize a belt is just a piece of metal, the UFC won't even need them anymore. They'll be washed up, old, and sitting on records full of losses, so the company will just move on to the next young stars like Sugar, Pimblet, or Makhachev...
They don't need "potential," they manufacture it...

Forget Conor. A guy like that comes along once in a century—someone who actually becomes bigger than the organization itself...

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Hang in there, Frank! Don't let them push you around.😁

I'm not sure how this is going to play out for Frank, but I have a feeling his UFC career might be nearing its end soon. Either they'll torpedo him because he was allegedly "negotiating" with other organizations—whether it was him or someone on his team, it doesn't really matter—or, like Ariel suggested, they might offer him a new fight in three months. Since he's dealing with knee issues and surgeries, he won't be able to accept. Then they can just say, "Well, sorry Frank... if you keep turning down fights, you're breaching your contract, blah blah blah..." Who knows what else they could find in his paperwork to use against him to kick him out of the organization. I'm sure Dana White has top-tier lawyers drafting those fighter contracts...

But this will definitely hurt their business. The fanbase is really rallying behind Frank right now. It's hard to ignore a guy who is the HW champion, looks like a superhero from a movie or a comic book, and has that incredible rags-to-riches story... from extreme poverty to a millionaire. And yet, they're treating him like this... They really should be holding onto him for dear life.

Dana acts like a pimp with these fighters; if you don't comply, you're out. Just think about how many guys would give anything to be in his shoes...☕
Every other organization is a joke to them, and the people running them are nothing but fools or crooks...

And then all these UFC fighters see that some kid clown like Jake Paul made $40 million just from boxing in 2021... well, you do the math...😁

placidtiger142 said:Look, the UFC is just a promotion company organizing fights, yet they insist on acting like an employer.

It’s like I’m your boss, but you’re just a day laborer. You don't get benefits, you don't have a formal contract, nothing—yet somehow, you still have to sign away your right to work for my neighbor during certain hours. It makes no sense.

The thing is, these fighters end up signing these predatory contracts that would probably be tossed out by any decent court, but most of them are broke. They don't have the cash to take on a massive corporation in a legal battle.

Actually, the UFC is absolutely an employer.

And what kind of alternative do these fighters really have? Even if they walk away from the UFC, where do they go? Bellator? Those guys pay even less.

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Honestly, Dana White is probably gonna end up pushing these fighters to start their own unions—just wait, you’re gonna see some absolute circus madness unfold real soon 😁

shadowcobra89 said:The fact that they don't provide health insurance is staggering to me.🙏

It’s pretty straightforward: give the fighters more rights and better pay. If the organization is actually as successful as they claim to be, these expenses shouldn't be an issue...

On top of that, beginners are walking in with a $10,000 minimum per fight.
After you settle up with the IRS, pay for the gym, coaches, sparring partners, physical therapists, and everything else, there's nothing left.
And when you factor in that most of these guys only compete once or twice a year...

You'd make more money flipping burgers at McShit.

Nicholas Nguyen said:And they’re even better off with that measly $10,000 minimum per fight beginners pull in.
Once you settle the taxes, the gym fees, trainers, sparring partners, physical therapists, and everything else, there's absolutely nothing left.
Add the fact that most fighters only compete once or twice a year into the equation...

You'd make more money flipping burgers at Los Angeles.

Look, Geoff Neal—a guy who has headlined a Fight Night and fought on major PPV cards—was working as a waiter until recently just because the money isn't there. I'm not saying everyone needs to be making millions to bother fighting, but it's been proven in court that fighters only see about 16% of the total revenue. In any other serious sport, that number is 50% or higher. End of discussion.

The media buzz is growing; UFC stars have popularity levels equal to, if not greater than, boxers, yet they earn three to four times less. You've got more and more disgruntled fighters, and now Jake Paul is messing with Dan. 🤣

I don't fully grasp the details of the ongoing lawsuit right now; Luke Thomas mentioned something about it a while back during a segment with Joe Rogan, but my memory is fuzzy. Still, this could reach a breaking point soon. It's pathetic—fighters scraping by on $10k have no choice but to keep going, but those at the top might actually be able to force some change. If Franjo actually leaves, what are his "brothers" going to do? Just sit there in silence? I highly doubt it.

I don't believe there are many guys actually walking away with $10k or $12k per fight. See, what California publishes are just the guaranteed purses, not the actual take-home pay. That figure doesn't include any bonuses or potential sponsorship money (and look, we know brands like Monster pay their fighters a lot). Dan has told reporters countless times to just ask the fighters how much they make—he’s basically given them the green light since they aren't under gag orders—but nobody ever really bites. I'm not defending the UFC here; even if it's a $20k minimum, that's honestly pathetic for this kind of work, and it's not like they're broke. But look, boxers on the undercards of major boxing shows make even less. Nash over at MMA Junkie did a whole series of deep dives on this. Long story short, top-tier boxers make astronomical amounts, nothing compared to top UFC fighters. But middle-of-the-pack and bottom-tier UFC fighters still pull in more than those same positions in boxing. Basically, the grinders always get screwed; the only question is whether it's the organizations or the elite fighters at the top doing the screwing. Still, if you have to be a grinder or some mediocre fighter scrapping for scraps, you might as well do it in the UFC.

So, Hrga pulled in a measly 15k for the scrap against Molina, which is just pathetic. Even Franjo didn't walk away with just 600k for this fight; realistically, he probably cleared one or two million. If I recall correctly, Jon Jones mentioned he was pulling in somewhere between 3 to 5 million once you factor in his PPV shares, sponsors, and all that.

Word is that some fighters were actually making even more back before they signed that Reebok (now Venom) deal, back when they were allowed to rock their own sponsor gear. At least for the guys at the top.

And you think that’s small? Just look at what tennis players make if they aren't sitting at the very top of the rankings—or even those boxers you guys were just talking about. I personally know people who played pro soccer and now find themselves working behind a counter at a local sportsbook. It’s the same story everywhere you go. If you aren't elite, you're basically struggling to stay afloat.

Roger Mendoza422 said:And that’s considered "a little"? What do you think tennis players make if they aren't at the absolute top? Or even the boxers you brought up earlier... I personally know guys who played pro football and now they're stuck working shifts at a local sportsbook. It's the same story everywhere. If you aren't elite, you're basically broke.

Look, 16% is pathetic. You can try to spin it however you want, but that's three times less than what you see in any other serious sport.

Take that fighter who went up against Shawn O'Malley; he took over 200 direct strikes to the head in just a few minutes, and then you realize your employer isn't providing any health coverage... hm...
Look, if you take a handful of fights like that, absorbing that many kicks to the skull while you're still in your early 20s, what makes you think you'll be perfectly fine without some lasting damage by the time you hit 40 or 50?

And don't even get me started on those brutal knockouts...
That situation with Frankie Edgar was genuinely terrifying...
Even more so because of what he admitted himself:

"I'm sitting around the doctors going through that whole process with them, [my trainers] Mark Henry and Ricardo Almeida are next to me and I'm like, 'Mark, what happened?' He's like 'you fought,' and I kind of figured that," said Edgar.

"But, I couldn't remember who the f--- I fought. I'm like, 'Who did I fight?' He's like 'Sandhagen.' I'm Trying to remember training for The Guy and i could not remember training for Him.

"'Since when was I supposed to fight him?' I thought maybe I just took this fight on short notice or something. He's like, 'Bro, two months. You have been training for this guy for two months.'"

Edgar mentioned that his memory didn't really start coming back until much later...

"Man, I just couldn't wrap it around my head," he said. "The doctor asked me what day it was and for the life of me, I could not remember. I was like: 'September, December.'"

Noah Roberts46 said:Look, 16% is tiny. You can try to spin it however you want, but that’s three times lower than what you see in any other major sport.

So, let me get this straight: the UFC pays you a flat $1,000,000 total just to make the math easier, and you walk away with only $160k from that fight? That is absolute nonsense. It makes zero sense, I honestly can't believe it. If that's how things work, how much would you have to make—or how many fights would you have to grind through—just to actually build some kind of future? You threw out this weird stat, and while I'm sure you pulled it from somewhere, it still doesn't hold water for me.

No, hold on. mah11 was actually suggesting that fighters only see about 16% of the company's total revenue. And honestly, I suspect that figure is accurate. I don't see the issue here. When you look at the Contender Series, those fighters are practically weeping with joy the second DW hands them a contract. I guess everyone's just a fool, right?
It’s the classic story: when you're a mid-tier fighter, everything is great, but the moment you become a champion, even a million dollars feels like peanuts.

Take Ngannou, for example. Now he’s complaining that a million isn't enough, even if he only fights once a year. Funny how that works when you were literally swinging a pickaxe in a mine just yesterday.

Frankie Edgar always played by the company rules; he secured his livelihood in the UFC and made a solid living doing it. Then there's Sandhagen, who couldn't quite figure out when to walk away—not because of the money, but because he didn't know when to call it quits. Now he's dealing with the fallout.

Personally, it doesn't affect my bank account, so I couldn't care less. Let them double their pay for all I care. But make no mistake, the system is working exactly as intended.

Comparing different sports is a messy business. Look, you can't really compare the UFC to a single gym; it's more like comparing them to an entire league. They might look like a club, but they’ve got over 500 fighters under their roof, 400 employees, they handle all their own fight promotion, manage their own rankings, hand out their own belts, and even self-regulate when they travel to parts of the world without an MMA commission. A gym doesn't do any of that. And a league? A league is made up of tons of individual clubs that handle their own business, so the math still doesn't add up. If you try to compare the UFC to boxing, you run into the same wall. There, promoters just promote fights—they don't distribute belts and there isn't this level of self-regulation. I read somewhere that the biggest boxing promotions—excluding Showtime, since they're part of a massive organization which makes things blurry—run their whole operation with just a handful of people. We're talking two offices and maybe ten employees being the entire promotion.

Honestly, no matter how you slice it, you're comparing apples to oranges. Even if a massive outfit like Matchroom has 40 or 50 people, they're still ten times smaller than the UFC, so you can't accurately compare what percentage of revenue goes to the fighters. And even with those high percentages, the boxers on the prelims get paid peanuts. I highly doubt those promoters have taken on the responsibility of guaranteeing three fights a year for every fighter under contract. If you try to drag the NBA into this, it gets even messier. In the NBA, the teams pay the players, and the prestige comes from playing in the best league in the world, not from being part of a specific franchise. To what someone said earlier: fighters grind to get into the UFC because that's where the prestige lives, not because they want to be members of a certain gym like AT&T. Gyms are a bit like clubs, but they're a totally different beast. Plus, the UFC signs fighters, not gyms. You'll see fighters from all sorts of different promotions training at the same gym. Fighters can switch gyms while staying with the same promotion, or vice versa.

Bottom line, I don't think the payout percentage is the most important factor here, and I'm totally with danini on that. The UFC builds these fighters from scratch and handles everything. Then, once they become stars, they start screaming, "Where's my money?" Instead of focusing on revenue splits, I think fighters should focus on things like health insurance and stopping those shady, mafia-style threats that Fran and Stipa used to deal with. Contractual stuff like automatic extensions if you turn down a fight is also super problematic. There's definitely room for improvement there. But trying to turn the UFC's business model (or Bellator's, which is smaller but runs on a similar blueprint) into a boxing-style model would absolutely destroy the sport, just like it ruined boxing. Since I expect regulators will eventually step in sooner or later, we might as well enjoy it while it lasts. We'll probably be telling our grandkids stories about the days when there was one organization providing killer fights every single weekend, or at least every other.

I couldn't agree more.

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