2021 Canadian GP: July 30 - Aug 1

Jason Campbell70 said:He was sinking long before he hit Ferrari.
Ricciardo absolutely schooled him at Red Bull back in 2014.
And yeah, Ricciardo had just joined the squad and was technically the second driver.

Vettel bolts to Ferrari, and since Kimi is there, it’s not exactly a massive hurdle.
Then some guy shows up at Ferrari who only has one single F1 season under his belt, and he also makes Vettel look like a complete amateur.
The next season, he does it again, but even more brutally.

Vettel was fine when his teammates were bottom-tier guys like Webber or Kimi (and let's face it, most of his career was spent with guys having mid-tier meltdowns), so they actually gave him trouble.
But the second a legitimate driver shows up—someone like Ricciardo or Leclerc—Vettel just farts in a bucket and runs for the exit.

Long story short...
In 2014, Vettel was spending way more time playing with fire extinguishers than driving the RB...
The amount of car fires and mechanical failures coming from his side of the garage was insane. Besides that, he just blindly forced his way into Ferrari...
And to make that happen, he had to finish lower than 4th in the standings. Otherwise, he couldn't have left Red Bull because of his contract; that clause was his only way out...

As for Leclerc, he’s basically the same level of favorite in the team as Alonso used to be—the obvious golden boy who could get away with anything...
And honestly, who knows what actually broke between Vettel and Ferrari, but things went south way before Leclerc arrived...
Ever since Sergio died and wasn't around anymore, Vettel really wasn't welcome at Ferrari...
With Arrivabene, the relationship worked okay-ish, but with Binotto, it was broken from day one.
The absolute bullshit they pulled on him—and themselves—while fighting for titles is totally inexplicable.
Even back in Kimi's time, the bond between Vettel and the team leadership had completely snapped. Sebastian's huge mistake was staying at all, because after all that crap, there was nothing left for him there...
Just imagine if Bottas did that during a title fight with Lewis Hamilton—instead of letting him through, he pushes him into Max and causes a Lewis Hamilton DNF and all that...
There's no way Bottas would last fifteen minutes in Germany after that, let alone the rest of the season... and if by some miracle Lewis lost his mind, he'd probably leave the team himself.
That was Vettel's massive fail: that stupid, youthful crush on Ferrari that he should have never had in the first place.☕

So where else was Vettel supposed to go after 2014? Given how things looked back then, making that move was actually a totally logical and realistic call. As for him failing to snag a title with Ferrari, that's a whole different story—in my opinion, the blame doesn't just lie with Ferrari, but with him too.

James Harris34 said:So where was Vettel supposed to go after 2014? Given the landscape back then, it was a totally logical move. The fact that he didn't win a title with Ferrari is a whole different story, and honestly, I don't think it's just on them—he shares some of that blame too.

He shouldn't have gone anywhere at all...

He should've figured out his plan in 2013—either commit to Red Bull Racing or start negotiating to land at Mercedes.
Anything else was just a massive blunder on his part.

Fuck Ferrari. They've been his personal nightmare since he started in F1. He was already talking to them back when he was still in STR, even lining up a move for 2009, but the guys at Red Bull blocked it and moved him to RB instead...
Honestly, thank God they did. Even though Ferrari was a powerhouse back then and actually looked like a real team, you could already see the writing on the wall: once the non-Italians left the top tier and they brought in all their own people, things were bound to tank. He wouldn't have had any luck there...

stormybadger8 said:Well, well, well...

Looking at the races they both finished, the record stands at a convincing 10-3 in favor of Richard.
There's nothing "debatable" about it.

stormybadger8 said:Regarding Leclerc, he’s treated as much of a favorite within the team as Alonso was back in the day—the obvious golden boy who could get away with anything...

Ferrari: Vettel still has priority over Leclerc in 50-50 situations

stormybadger8 said:Then there's Vettel's massive screw-up, that foolish youthful infatuation with Ferrari that he should have never even entertained.☕

It seems this has already been explained quite thoroughly by our colleague from a few years back.

He had two choices: stay with Red Bull, where Richard absolutely wrecked him last season, or head to Ferrari and become one of the highest-paid drivers on the grid.
Since Ferrari was his goal all along, he made the only logical move—the only move possible, really.

That race was absolutely killer, honestly. The final standings? Not even close to what I wanted to see. 😬

Jason Campbell70 said:Looking at the races they both actually finished, Richard leads 10-3.
No "close call" here.

Doesn't really matter given how many times the car broke down, so yeah...
Plus, everything just depends on whatever Christian Horner and Helmut Marko had planned at that exact moment.
And it was obvious enough that they were focused on building a new star since they knew Sebastian Vettel was leaving at the end of the season...
It was crystal clear from the very first race when they goddamn pushed Ricciardo's engine so hard they ended up getting disqualified because they cranked the power way past the legal fuel flow limit...
Funny how that only happened to Ricciardo's car. Meanwhile, Vettel's car was dealing with straight-up engine failures from race one instead of "power anomalies." 🙂

Ferrari: Vettel still has priority over Leclerc in 50-50 situations

There’s a huge gap between what Binotto was blathering about to the press and what was actually happening on track and what Leclerc was allowed to do...
I mean, how is it even remotely normal for the supposed No. 2 driver—according to Binotto—to refuse to give slipstream to the No. 1, effectively screwing over his own qualifying and everyone else's, only to end up with nothing in the end?
Sure, I guess Massa and Rubens used to pull that kind of bullshit all the time. 🙂

Can you imagine the sheer chaos at the very first turn? It was absolute mayhem when four drivers all found themselves tangled up in a massive collision right at the start: Lance Stroll, Valtteri Bottas, Pierre Gasly, and Fernando Alonso. 👎

legendary 🙏🤣

Jeremy Clarkson said:Ah. Clever. Only Hamilton on the track. That way he can’t hit anybody

Total BS 🙏🤣🤣🤣

And this one's a classic too...

😍

I read somewhere that Lewis Hamilton is leading the championship, haha. Apparently, Valtteri Bottas spent his pre-race prep practicing bowling instead, haha.

As far as artistic impression goes, I’d give it a 10/10. Everyone who mattered failed miserably—or, as they used to say back in the day, everything just went south.🙂

I see we still have people out there who actually believe Valtteri Bottas caused that collision on purpose. Seriously? It’s the same old tired narrative from the same group of people.

frozenheron7 said:I see there are still people out there convinced that Valtteri Bottas caused that collision on purpose.

Of course it wasn't intentional. It was dramatic, though. Unfortunately, both Charles Leclerc and Lando Norris were caught in the crossfire. It’s probably for the best, really; if it hadn't happened this way, Christian Horner would be screaming about foul play right now. This way, he’s forced to stay quiet, which I imagine is quite difficult for him.

We seriously need to add a "painful" option to this poll.

It’s an option we should have had from the start, and I suspect we’ll be asking for it again down the road.

Come on, graniteharbor502, you could try being actually helpful for once instead of just stalling or playing cop. 🙂

frozenheron7 said:I see there are still people out there convinced that Valtteri Bottas caused that crash on purpose.

Seriously, who actually thinks that? 🤣
If Bottas were actually precise enough to pull off a move like that intentionally, he would have been the GOAT ages ago...
As it stands, he's just a guy who gets lucky once in a while...

stormybadger8 said:It’s honestly irrelevant, given how many breakdowns there are anyway. Just the way it goes...

For the second time now, Daniel Ricciardo absolutely dismantled him in those head-to-head races.
No fluff. No filler. Just the facts.

stormybadger8 Asks:
It’s one thing when Mattia Binotto goes on a media rant, but it's an entirely different story when you look at what actually went down on the track and how much freedom Charles Leclerc was truly given...

What was he allowed to get away with?
Hopefully he won't go attacking a slower Sebastian Vettel ahead of him, like we saw during that first race in the USA?
Should they just ignore Sebastian Vettel after he asks over the radio, like what happened in China?
Or what about when they "accidentally" forgot to tell him that Vettel had a five-second penalty ahead of him? You know, just like what happened in Canada?
Or rather, what we saw happen repeatedly this season: Vettel trailing behind Leclerc, yet somehow Vettel gets the priority and hits the pits first?
It was pretty obvious, wasn't it? Leclerc was dropping positions while Vettel was moving up—and that gain came directly at Leclerc's expense.

stormybadger8 said:How is this even acceptable? How can a No. 2 driver, following Binotto's lead, refuse to give slipstream to his teammate during qualifying—basically sabotaging both himself and everyone else on track—only to end up with absolutely nothing in the end? What was the point?
Of course it is. Massa and Barrichello? They were constantly pulling stunts like that. 🙂

Barrichello back in Austria in 2002. He tried to go rogue. Wasn't that the whole point of him being the No. 2 driver? They had an agreement to let the No. 1 driver through if things got tricky during the race. Why break the deal then?

Charles Leclerc did the exact same thing at Monza.
The plan was already set for Q3. First, the No. 1 driver would provide the slipstream for the No. 2 driver. Then, during the most critical phase of qualifying, the roles would flip, with the No. 2 driver pulling the No. 1 driver along. Simple enough, right?
So then Charles Leclerc decided to play the hero. He ignored the pre-arranged team orders and completely threw his teammate under the bus. Why even bother with a strategy if you're just going to sabotage your own side?

Unlike Barrichello, who saw Ferrari essentially hand him four wins that season—some gifted directly like in the USA, others by letting a clearly faster Schumacher hold back—it felt like they were just waiting for any excuse to slap Leclerc.
They even managed to find an opportunity for that in Singapore.

If we end up having to debate who the lead driver is and who plays second fiddle once this race is over—and exactly what kind of freedom each one was given—then honestly, what's the point?

@Jason Campbell70/">@@Jason Campbell70

Wouldn't it be simpler, more efficient, and frankly easier to just state that Charles Leclerc is a better, faster driver than Sebastian Vettel? Period.

And if I wrote it that way, I'd actually be participating in a real discussion, rather than engaging in this endless cycle of searching for excuses where none exist.

If I hadn't stopped at a red light, I could probably conjure up a hundred different reasons why I didn't stop, but the reality remains: I didn't stop.

It is an established fact that Vettel is simply a lesser driver than Leclerc. Even though he held the No. 2 position in the team, he lost to Leclerc, and ironically, the very fact that he was the senior driver is the only reason he wasn't completely decimated by him.

Everything else is just making excuses.

Whenever both drivers finished their races without incident, Daniel Ricciardo and Charles Leclerc were superior. I am stating this because I fully expect an Alonso-Tarso Marques style debate from my friend over here.🙂

Keep going, Jason Campbell70—just sit back and enjoy the chaos

mellowtiger83 said:When both drivers finished without any drama, Ricciardo and Leclerc clearly had the edge. I only said that because I’m half-expecting a massive debate from Alonso-Tarso Marques—or whatever my buddy calls his directing style, tbh.🙂

Bla-bla-bl...
Tarso Marques, Daniel Ricciardo, Charles Leclerc, and Fernando Alonso could all eat a mountain of junk food and still not be mentioned in the same breath as Sebastian Vettel.
Let's be real—none of them have even come close to what Vettel achieved.
Right now, they're sitting at about 50%. 🙂

Go ahead, keep digging for excuses as to why they aren't. You’ve got plenty of time... just let me know when you finally figure it out. 🙂

stormybadger8 said:Bla-bla-bl...
Tarso Marques, Daniel Ricciardo, Charles Leclerc, and Fernando Alonso could all eat way too many damn doughnuts before they even get close to being mentioned in the same breath as Sebastian Vettel...
because honestly, even combined, they still haven't achieved half of what Vettel pulled off in Formula 1...
Right now, they're sitting at maybe 50% of his level at best. 🙂

But hey, feel free to keep hunting for excuses as to why they aren't there yet—take all the time you need... just hit me up whenever you finally come up with something believable. 🙂

It's just because they didn't have a dominant car.

Poor little things 🙂

Some guys, like Fernando Alonso, actually were, they just didn't have the sheer talent to snag the title(s) while sitting in that dominant car...
Plus, they lacked the guts to stay in a team alongside a rival driver with equal status, so they just bailed out to join squads where they could boss their teammates around completely—to the point where those teammates practically had to crash into walls just to let the "maestro" win...🙂

And oh look, that specific guy is the only one among them who actually managed to win one, while the rest were all talk and no action.

stormybadger8 said:Bla-bla-bl...
Tarso Marques, Daniel Ricciardo, Charles Leclerc, and Fernando Alonso all need to eat a whole lot more if they ever want to be mentioned in the same breath as Sebastian Vettel...
because, collectively, they still haven't achieved what Vettel did in Formula 1...
Right now, they're sitting at maybe 50% 🙂

feel free to hunt for excuses as to why they aren't there yet—take your time... let me know when you figure it out 🙂

And Vettel needs to win at least twice as much just to be compared to Lewis Hamilton.

feel free to go looking for excuses as to why he hasn't, take your time... let me know when you figure it out 🙂