F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019

wiredfalcon2 said:That explains why Nico Hulkenberg finished just behind Daniel Ricciardo in the race. They actually issued a team order telling him not to overtake, even though Hulk was clearly faster during that second stint. I guess it's because he's just a tier below Ricciardo in terms of raw pace..

Well, a blind bird still finds a worm sometimes.

You seem to be overlooking one key thing: Williams actually got quite lucky being ranked as the 3rd or 4th best team on the grid back then. Force India was never really knocking on the door of the top tier. 😉

2014.
Williams finished 3rd, while Force India took 6th...

2015.
Williams came in at 3rd, and Force India was 5th.

stormyviper2 said:You seem to be overlooking the fact that Williams was lucky to be the 3rd or 4th best team on the grid back then—Force India was never really fighting at the top. 😉

2014:
Williams 3rd, Force India 6th...

2015:
Williams 3rd, Force India 5th.

And you're forgetting that Nico Hulkenberg has had maybe 22 genuine podium opportunities in his career so far. 22 times he finished... N O W H E R E. He's an incredibly talented driver—I suppose—but Bottas is just three levels above him. If you don't believe me, just look at Mercedes—they chose Bottas over Hulkenberg (who was actually right on the cusp of joining them after Rosberg stepped down). I suspect even they might not fully realize how much better Bottas truly is. 🐔

Richard Walker38 said:People just see what they want to see.

Are you talking about yourself or what? This is the only race besides the one in Spain where both of them finished without any crazy drama, breakdowns, safety cars, or whatever else. Back in Spain, Hulk was trailing Ricciardo by 3 seconds at the end... just like here. They're clearly on the same level. There was one lap where Ricciardo was actually faster.

Honestly, if Hulk had been behind the wheel at Williams during those years instead of Bottas, I truly don't think he would have delivered anything less than similar results. 😉

Bottas really caught a lucky break landing that Williams seat, especially with the Mercedes engine power and having Mass as his teammate.

Just to throw some more fuel on the fire:

Let's look at Romain Grosjean for a second. If we're judging based on those specific results:

7th at the French Grand Prix with Romain Grosjean
8th at the French Grand Prix with Romain Grosjean

(Those were his finishes back in the 2012 and 2013 seasons)

By that logic, does that make Grosjean a better driver than Hulk too? xD

It’s the same story with Valtteri Bottas—he just got lucky having Kimi Raikkonen as a teammate, someone who can genuinely turn a mediocre car into something special. xD

Just some more ridiculous and questionable logic for you all;
If Grosjean ended up with Maldonado as his teammate, does that imply Maldonado is actually better than Hulk, assuming Grosjean is indeed better than Hulk? XD

Grosjean also ended up paired with Renault.
So, by that same twisted reasoning, is Renault a better driver than Hulk? XD

stormyviper2 said:So, if we're following that logic—does that mean Romain Grosjean is actually a better driver than Hulk? I guess maybe. xD

So you're pulling out Grosjean as some sort of ace in the hole to prove Bottas is a worse driver than Hulk—this is just getting ridiculous, I guess. 😵

stormyviper2 said:I guess he’s in the same boat as Valtteri Bottas—lucky enough to have Kimi Raikkonen as a teammate, someone who can actually work some magic with a car. xD

Maybe Bottas and Kimi Raikkonen were actually the most formidable driver pairing we've seen in a single team—nothing quite like the era of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, I guess. 👍

Honestly, Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen are cut from the exact same cloth. It’s like they both operate on about 10% interest in anything happening around them, and they drive like they’re using their left feet instead of hands. They have this uncanny knack for absolutely wrecking a car when it really matters. They'd be a dream find for any underdog team looking to fill a seat. xD

wiredfalcon2 said:Are you talking about yourself or what? Aside from the race in Spain, this is the only race where both guys finished without any crazy incidents, mechanical failures, safety cars, or anything else messing things up. In Spain, Hulk ended up just three seconds behind Ricciardo... just like here. It’s obvious they’re neck and neck. There was even one lap where Ricciardo was actually faster.

How can they be neck and neck if he's three seconds back? Three seconds is a massive gap in Formula 1.

Honestly, I can't even think of a single "wow" moment from his driving in quite a while. That's just his vibe. He's in Formula 1, he's doing fine, he's not bad, but he isn't spectacular either. He's making good money, he gets to race around a bit, and he doesn't seem to have any massive ambitions or the drive to absolutely crush people on the track.

stormyviper2 said:Matt Massa and Kimi Räikkönen are basically cut from the same cloth—about 10% focused, driving like they have three left feet, and somehow knowing exactly how to wreck a car. Honestly, anyone could pick them up. xD

It’s funny how these geniuses don't seem to have at least 20 titles each—including the WCC, obviously. 🤔

crimsonhawk23 said:It’s pretty wild that these "geniuses" don't have at least 20 individual titles to their names, right? 🤔

The reason is actually incredibly simple; they care about racing just as much as I care about joining the FBI, or how much I care about high-end women's skincare. xD

In my eyes, Matt Massa completely fell off during his time at Williams Racing, and Kimi Räikkönen was in the same boat after leaving Lotus.

stormyviper2 said:The reason is pretty straightforward—they’re just as interested in racing as I am in joining the TSA, or maybe how much I care about makeup. xD

Yeah, it feels like they’re basically holding Kimi at gunpoint to drive, rather than letting him walk away from Formula 1 to focus on something he actually enjoys 👍

It’s similar to Matt Massa over in Formula E—always hinting at a possible return to Formula 1, even if he doesn't really miss it or anything. It all seems driven by this massive lack of passion for the actual driving!

It’s not that they lack raw talent; it’s just that their mental edge seems to have faded significantly since their prime.

The way I see it, Ferrari kept Kimi around mainly because he understood the car's DNA better than anyone else.
As for Matt Massa... look, if you’ve been a runner-up in the championship, being told you have to drive for a team like Williams Racing would be a massive blow to anyone's ego.😉

When both of them were at the absolute peak of their powers, they were nothing short of legendary. After that, though, it felt like they were just going through the motions, driving purely out of habit rather than true passion.

stormyviper2 said:They basically kept Kimi at Ferrari just so they could pick his brain about the car.

And somehow—it’s almost mystical—Kimi lost all that expertise overnight last year, making room for Charles Leclerc, who apparently possesses enough driver experience to replace him effortlessly without ever having sat in a Ferrari before. 😁

stormyviper2 said:Both were incredibly impressive during their prime—later on, they were mostly just going through the motions.

Well, yeah—they were essentially forced into doing things they had zero interest in. Such is the cruel world of Formula 1, I guess. 🤕🔫🏎

In my opinion, Alonso just seems way more driven than Matt Massa or Kimi Räikkönen.
If you put Alonso in a Ferrari or a Mercedes seat, I honestly feel like he’d make Lewis's life a total nightmare.

As for Kimi, he barely gave Sebastian Vettel any real trouble during those races they ran together.

To me felt like Kimi was just driving on autopilot... his body was in the cockpit, but his mind was clearly on Neptune. He was nowhere near the track mentally.

In my opinion, Kimi lost that competitive edge a long time ago. It makes perfect sense why they want him at Stake F1 Team; they just want him there to pass on his technical expertise on how to build a car for next year, and then he can finally head into retirement. 😉

Richard Walker38 said:How am I supposed to call it an even match if he's trailing by three seconds? In Formula 1, three seconds isn't exactly nothing.

🙄

stormyviper2 said:As for Kimi, he barely gave Sebastian Vettel any real fight in the races they shared together.

Fair point. We tend to ignore the second half of 2018—when he was essentially let go knowing he wouldn't be driving for Ferrari again, which meant he didn't have to follow those team orders making Vettel the clear number one driver. 😁

Fastest lap in Formula 1 history - Kimi Räikkönen (Monza 2018)
Last Ferrari winner - Kimi Räikkönen (COTA 2018)

My take? For most of last season, I really felt like Kimi Räikkönen could have absolutely dominated Sebastian Vettel if he had just been given the chance.