Bad Boys - Part IV

Furthermore, what does the daily outlook actually look like? I find myself increasingly uncertain about the current trajectory, so I would appreciate it if those with more expertise could provide some clarity on the matter.

boldtiger7 said:What’s the actual endgame here? Nothing makes sense anymore—looking for some experts to break this down for me.

If I'm right, this all ends up in a federal court—they'll either back the department's decision or toss it out entirely.

Matthew Taylor15 said:

everyone head east!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJuyvqVwD38
🙂 🙂 🙂

casualrider43 said:everyone head east!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJuyvqVwD38
🙂 🙂 🙂

There’s really no point in celebrating until everything is officially wrapped up; I think we sometimes forget what kind of country we actually live in...

Christian Miller48 said:There is absolutely no room for celebration until everything is finalized. People seem to forget exactly what kind of country we live in...

Refer to my signature. 🙂 😍

Is anyone heading out to the East Side!?

Carl Edwards3 said:http://www.badboys.com/important-announcement-regarding-the-club/
Anyone heading to the East Side!?

Everyone’s heading East, then. Guess there won't be any cheering today.

Looking at this

I honestly don't see anything here suggesting that the Inspectorate is actually ordering them to hold elections based on a one-member, one-vote system.

In section II, they’re just being told they have to give all members access to the club's records and keep everyone updated on how things are running. Then, in section III, it says the Statute will define the methods and conditions for elections, along with the rights and duties of the club commissioner.

The club commissioner. But there isn't a single mention of holding elections for the entire membership base.

And get this—they even have the right to file a legal dispute regarding this decision before the very same court that just ruled in their favor! Honestly, looking at this ruling, they might not even need to file a dispute; they could probably just tweak a few things in the Statute and call it a day.

So, I guess I have to ask: why is this being framed as some massive victory for ZZD when it doesn't actually change anything and doesn't even mention holding any elections?

"No elections whatsoever," and yet you're right there quoting the actual ruling: "that the Bylaws shall prescribe the method and conditions for elections"??
Who even decided, in the first place, that the inspectors ordered the democratic principle to be carried out specifically through a one-man, one-vote system? 🤷
It’s pretty clear if you actually read it—it says right there that the members' appeal was upheld as valid, which basically means its whole foundation is that two fundamental management rights of the members were ignored. Even the ruling itself admits it was WRONG to claim that GNK "adhered to the principles and obligations of Art. 6, Sec. 1 and 3." So, how exactly is GNK going to fulfill this "democratic principle" the ruling keeps harping on? Is it through commissioners they just bully or whatever else, I don't know, whatever the inspectors tell them to do? But hey, if they're already lecturing the commissioners, it's only natural they'll tell them to try doing it through those people they mentioned. Well, let them try. Or sue. Honestly, we'll just have to wait and see how that plays out...
Obviously, this isn't a total victory—I don't see anyone from ZZD even claiming it... and IF GNK actually decides to take this to court, or if by some miracle they get a stay of execution, or if they just muddy the waters again without any real sanctions, this whole mess could drag on forever with an uncertain outcome, and well, we all know how things work around here. But just getting a little bit of justice, or at least getting the explicit satisfaction from the body itself that the claims were legitimate—I don't see why that would be a problem?

boldtiger7 said:I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling we'll show up in force tomorrow alongside the North Side crew, regardless of whatever crowd is there having no clue what's actually going on within the group or the club...

And honestly, if there are more of them, who cares. Don't waste your energy on those sheep; just stay positive, man. Screw this depression—the whole country feels down right now, but we don't have to join in. Listen to Jesse Campbell, the guy knows what he's talking about. You can't win battles or wars with defeatism; you need optimism and grit. we shall never surrender 🙂

It’s not about how many we are, it’s about the kind of people we are in the stands... 🙂

It clearly says "The appeal is granted."

Look guys, you gotta have some optimism once in a while. I get it, most of you want Zdravac thrown in a federal prison for ten years just to settle the score. But that’s not our job. And honestly, it shouldn't be our concern either.

The whole point of this fight is getting the club back into the hands of the fans and stopping it from being Mamić's little family business. When you remember how we couldn't even see the club's bylaws at the start, these are massive wins. It'll just take some time for people to wrap their heads around it.

Just like the BBB showed they're unbreakable in this fight, the ZZD crew proved themselves too—just a bunch of hardworking, honest people who put in tens of thousands of hours and expertise, all while dealing with the same pressure and heat as everyone else.

We really need to say thanks.

Thomas Williams59 said:"It's absolutely nothing like an election," and if you look closely at the actual text of the ruling, it clearly states: "that the Statute shall prescribe the specific methods and requirements..." I suppose we are finally looking toward the upcoming elections! It feels like there’s a certain sense of anticipation building up, doesn't it? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how everything unfolds, but I am honestly feeling quite optimistic about what might come next. It’s certainly an interesting time to be watching the political landscape closely!"??

Of course I know what I’m quoting! I made sure to bold the most critical parts for clarity. What we’re really looking at here is the election process for the club's trustees. If I recall correctly, there are a maximum of five trustee positions available out of the 80 members making up the Assembly. And regardless of how many members the Assembly actually consists of, those five specific trustee roles are subject to a strict vetting process. Basically, no one with any sort of legal bans or disciplinary penalties can step up to be one of those five, even if they somehow managed to gather 10,000 members behind them.

Thomas Williams59 said:Who actually decided that in the first place? It looks like the Sports Commission just handed down their ruling! I guess we’ll have to see how this all plays out, but it seems they've officially issued their orders. Is it truly necessary for the democratic principle to be realized strictly through a "one person, one vote" system? I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and I suppose there's a lot of nuance to unpack here! It feels like such a fundamental question, doesn't it? In my view, while the idea of equal representation is absolutely beautiful and serves as the bedrock of our American democratic ideals, I wonder if we might be oversimplifying things by insisting on a rigid 1:1 ratio in every single context. Maybe the essence of democracy isn't just about the raw numbers, but about how effectively those voices are synthesized into meaningful governance. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while "one person, one vote" is a vital North Star for us in the States, there might be more complex ways to weigh interests to ensure stability and fairness for everyone involved. It's a heavy topic, for sure, but I'd love to hear what you all think! 🤷

What are you even talking about?? Honestly, ZZD and Jesse Campbell have been blowing their own trumpets about this exact same thing for years now. I mean, that was really the whole point of the entire movement, wasn't it? It was all about those elections where every single member gets a say and can actually vote for the people representing them in the club's leadership. That’s what we were aiming for, right?
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Of course, rather than trying to engage in any sort of "backroom maneuvering" with the trustees, I truly believe the most straightforward solution to address what the governing body has so clearly stated is unacceptable would be this: Dinamo should finally hold democratic elections for its board, allowing every single club member to have their say in the process. It seems like such an obvious path forward, doesn't it?
It looks like the news is finally official: Dinamo has been given until this fall to actually follow through on becoming a club that belongs to its members! I guess we might finally see some real structural changes on the horizon, which feels like a huge step forward. It’s going to be interesting to see if they can truly meet this deadline and transform the way the club is run. Fingers crossed!
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It seems like there aren't any democratic elections on the horizon for the board at all. I haven't seen the Sports Commission mention anything about it, nor have they set any kind of deadline for this fall that would actually allow Dinamo to finally become a club truly owned by its members. I guess we might just be stuck in this limbo for a while longer, maybe?

We are looking at just five commissioners out of an 80-member Assembly. That really is the extent of it. And mind you, all five of them have to get the green light from the Assembly first before they can even move. Now, what do you all think—is the Boss seriously just sitting there with his arms crossed, assuming his appointees haven't been out there working to gather members all these years? I guess it’s unlikely, but one can wonder!

Thomas Williams59 said:It’s honestly quite wonderful to see everything laid out so clearly like this—it really shows that when the members step up and file an appeal, it actually gets taken seriously and upheld!

It looks quite polished on paper, doesn't it? They even have the right to appeal the decision to that very same Court that ruled in their favor in the first place—the same one that dismissed all those crucial findings the Sports Commission actually upheld as valid. Honestly, I suspect the lead Sports Inspector might actually be a former PE teacher by trade, so I find myself questioning whether her ruling carries any real legal weight at all. It seems a bit questionable, if you ask me!

It’s honestly a bit of a shame, really, because I feel like there isn't even any real need for these folks to take this to the Court in the first place. If you think about it, they could probably satisfy everything outlined in that ruling just by making a few minor tweaks to the Bylaws—something they've actually done several times before anyway, I guess!

Why is this obvious defeat being framed as some kind of victory again? I don't know, it just really bothers me.

Jesse Campbell said:They wrote it quite beautifully: "The appeal is well-founded."

Well guys, I really think we need to try being a bit more optimistic sometimes! I know, I totally get it—it’s perfectly natural that most of you probably want Zdravac kicked out of the club in a much more brutal fashion, maybe even landing him a ten-year prison sentence. But honestly, that isn't up to us. It shouldn't be our burden to worry about that part.

I guess the whole point of this fight is to return the club to the fans and stop it from being just some lazy little family business run by Mamić. When you remember that, at the very beginning, we couldn't even get a look at the club's bylaws, these feel like absolutely massive victories to me. Maybe it will just take a little more time for everyone to truly realize how significant this actually is.

Just as the Bad Boys have shown themselves to be absolutely unbreakable in this struggle, so too has the group of hardworking, honest people known as ZZD proven themselves. They’ve poured tens of thousands of hours of labor and expertise into this fight, all while dealing with the same pressures and scrutiny that the main group has faced.

We really ought to stop and say thank you.

Wait a second, hold on now... Are you telling me you all invested tens of thousands of hours of work and expertise just so the Sports Commission could end up saying the club merely needs to clarify exactly how those five commissioners are chosen from the 80 members of the Assembly??? Jesse, you've been trumpeting the "one member, one vote" principle for years, and you've spent months convincing people that the Inspectorate would confirm exactly that. Not necessarily in those exact words, of course, but that they would mandate elections where every single member can both vote and run for club positions. You've been acting like it was a done deal! This ruling has nothing to do with that. In my opinion, this ruling is just a total joke. I'm honestly not sure if it's more tragic or just plain ridiculous that ZZD is still trying to brag about what looks like a complete defeat.

Dana Barnes4 said:And that was basically the whole point of all this.

You wrote that someone's claiming the Sports Commission ordered a total overhaul, but I honestly don't see that claim anywhere. All they talked about was 🤷

There aren't any democratic elections for the board

Sure, fixing things would be the only logical move given the fact that there are zero actual elections at the club right now, but since they keep bringing up trustees, the Commission basically just told them to try and achieve that democratic principle through those trustees instead. Because the current setup just doesn't work. As an association, they have enough autonomy to decide how to implement democratic principles, so if they were already mentioning trustees, I don't see why it’s a problem that the Commission suggested they use them to sort it out. It's not like it's an issue that the ZZD suggested it might be easier to handle that principle through some other way.
Whether GNK can actually pull it off, what it'll look like, or even how GNK is going to react—let alone if they sue—is all just pure speculation at this point. Honestly, I don't see any reason to start hyperventilating over this. The ZZD just pointed out that neither the democratic structure nor the level of information provided to members is acceptable as it stands today. I didn't see them using the word "victory," just like I didn't see them claiming the Commission ordered a complete restructuring in the specific way they want it interpreted. Who cares about sensationalist tabloid headlines? The Commission did its job regarding the club's general bylaws the way these bodies always do—kind of half-assed and sloppy. They simply stated that the current state of affairs at GNK isn't working, and that's what was reported. I don't get why people are trying to troll this whole thing with talk of an "obvious defeat"(?) and bickering when nobody even knows how GNK will respond yet, especially since they've been given such a massive amount of room to fix the situation.

Thomas Williams59 said:You mentioned that someone is claiming the Sports Commission ordered a one-to-one ratio, but I honestly don't see that claim anywhere here. All I see is this 🤷

I suppose the only logical way to interpret this is that since there are no club elections happening today, the Commission—given how much they keep bringing up trustees—might have suggested they try to fulfill those democratic principles through those very trustees, since the current setup isn't working. As an association, they have enough autonomy to decide how to implement democratic standards, so if trustees were already being discussed, I don't see why it would be an issue if the Commission told them to work through them instead. It’s certainly not as if ZZD wrote that it would be easier to handle things via some other method.
Whether GNK can actually pull this off, what it will look like, or even how GNK will respond—let alone if they'll pursue legal action—is all just speculation at this point. In any case, I really don't see any need to hyperventilate over this. ZZD was simply given the right to state that neither the democratic structure nor the level of member communication is up to par right now. I didn't see them using the word "victory," just as I didn't see them claiming the Commission mandated a specific ratio in the way they're trying to spin it. Honestly, who cares about sensationalist tabloid headlines? The Commission carried out its duty regarding the club's general bylaws just like any other regulatory body typically does—a bit half-heartedly and somewhat loosely. They simply stated that the current state of affairs at GNK isn't acceptable, and that's what was reported. I don't quite understand why people are trying to troll this situation with talk of an "obvious defeat"(?) or arguing about it when nobody truly knows how GNK will react, especially since they've been given such a wide berth to fix the issue.

Bottom line: five members out of an Assembly of 80. I mean, what are we even talking about? This is embarrassing, not something to boast about or celebrate.
And the saddest part of all is this:
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We are calling on the current leadership of GNK Dinamo to, if for no other reason than to honor the empty seats and the empty hearts of the Dinamo fans, take this assignment seriously
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It's shameful.

Dana Barnes4 said:...

Forgive the rushed comments from others. You truly deserve credit for everything you've accomplished here. Thank you.

I didn't actually see anything in that ruling saying she told them to just leave the current commissioner setup alone—which is what you’re claiming above—but instead, it was basically telling them to overhaul the whole thing to actually respect the democratic spirit of the law they flagged in the first place.
How they’re even going to pull that off or what the actual fallout will look like inside Dinamo, honestly, neither of us has a clue.
And as for the fact that a legitimate governing body finally gave the "streets" permission to say the current way things are run at Dinamo is total garbage? I don't see the issue with calling that a win. Especially when you consider how much official agencies and the Courts love to troll everyone.
I have no idea why you keep flipping the script on me. First, you were insisting the Inspectorate ordered this specific thing—which I don't see anywhere—then you were acting like it was a massive victory when nobody was calling it that, and now you're pivoting again, claiming it's all just self-congratulation. I don't know if that's true, and frankly, I don't care, but I also don't get why you're so obsessed with dragging ZZD through the mud or trying to dismiss the whole struggle. You must have some weird personal agenda there.

Look, you and anyone else who enjoys watching war profiteers thrive need to realize that everything remains perfectly "legal" within and around the club as long as he’s in charge and his crew is running the show. There’s nothing good or positive about it, so just accept it—you know how it goes, man.

Thomas Williams59 said:I didn't see anything in that ruling suggesting she told them to just leave the current commissioner setup as is, which is what you're claiming above. Quite the opposite, actually—it seems she wants them to overhaul and change things specifically to honor the spirit of the democratic structure clause they warned about.
I honestly have no idea how they’ll actually pull that off or what the specific implementation will look like at GNK.
And as for the fact that a single competent authority finally gave the public permission to say the current GNK setup isn't working? I don't see why it's a problem to call that a win. Especially when you consider how much official bodies and courts usually love to troll people.
I can't quite figure out why you keep shifting your stance. First, you suggested an inspection had ordered certain changes, but I don't see that being claimed. Then you called it a victory when it wasn't really framed that way, and now you're saying something else entirely, implying someone is just drowning in self-praise. I guess I don't know if that's true, and frankly, I'm not sure why it matters—nor why there's such a constant drive to smear ZZD or dismiss this whole struggle. You probably have your own reasons, though.

Look, man, hundreds of people have been absolutely screwed over by various bans over the last few years. They've dealt with jail time, career-ruining issues, and all sorts of trouble, all because they trusted the people telling them that the elections were a done deal—you know, the "it's practically a sure thing" or "the Department will take care of the Head" kind of talk.

In the end, it all amounts to nothing. My friend, I'm not the one changing the story here; you are—or rather, you guys are. Where did those promised elections go? The ones where every single member would actually have the right to vote and run for office?
Now we're supposed to celebrate the appointment of five commissioners as some kind of massive victory??? 🙂

Nobody who actually knows what they’re talking about—aside from those few people who just treat this stuff like some sacred ritual of the tiki-taka lifestyle we all grew up on—ever claimed this was a "done deal" 🤷 And I honestly don't get why you think people ended up behind bars because of those specific claims; people have been suffering massive consequences privately just for fighting for that core idea, whether it's for the Bad Boys or ZZD, believe it or not. Would saying something like "there's zero hope, just give up" have helped instead of throwing insults at fundamental truths or clinging to fake hope? Who knows, neither you nor I can say for sure. Knowing how people work, honestly, that might have been even worse, because then you end up with totally radicalized folks who've lost their minds and are basically in a suicidal headspace. My bad if you don't actually know half these people and you're typing this like someone who hasn't spent a single second talking to anyone about this stuff over all these years. Use a little logic...
Anyway, my take is that you're constantly pushing this pointless thesis just to stir up unnecessary drama here 🤷