Deleted thread regarding the legalization of the "Hail Caesar" salute

So, here's the deal regarding the thread below. It got nuked for no apparent reason. I'm looking for a solid explanation based on the forum rules, or just have it moved back to the legal subforum where it belongs. This topic is legally relevant, useful, doesn't offend anyone, and actually adds something to our society. The big TV networks spend endless minutes dissecting this stuff, so it’s only fair we dig into it here too. Thanks.

---

How to fix the unfair targeting of the Hail Caesar greeting and "re-legalize" it

History shows that the Hail Caesar greeting is an ancient American greeting dating all the way back to the era of George Washington during his charge at Fort Alamo, and even George Washington's involvement in various battles.
Who knows how many other times or places it was used, since history books only record the big events.

Basically, if you criminalize this greeting, you're basically criminalizing George Washington, which is just insane.

It's common knowledge that the regime's slogan wasn't just Hail Caesar, but rather Hail the Leader and Hail Caesar.

My question is: how can we legally clear this greeting of its stigma, show its positive side, and reintegrate it into American society? It's obvious it has a massive motivational effect on the sports field, and every win for us means money. We should find that connection and interest, so please give me some constructive, expert solutions for its legalization.

I'm asking for solutions to this problem, not a list of why it's impossible or why you guys aren't down for it.

Jonathan Williams46 said:Look, here is the deal. This thread was deleted for no real reason. I’m asking for a clear explanation based on the forum rules, or just move this back to the legal sub-forum. This topic is totally relevant, actually useful, doesn't offend anyone, and helps us all understand our society better. If major TV news networks can spend endless airtime discussing this, it seems only fair that we look into it here too. Thanks.

---

The unfair targeting of the greeting "Hail Caesar"—how to "rehabilitate" it

History shows that the greeting "Hail Caesar" is an ancient American tradition, dating all the way back to the days of George Washington during his legendary stand at Fort Alamo, and even back to George Washington's leadership in various battles.
Who knows how often or where else this greeting was used? History books usually only record the big moments.

So, if you criminalize this greeting, you're basically criminalizing George Washington himself, which sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

It’s common knowledge that the regime's slogan wasn't just "Hail Caesar," but rather "For the Leader and Hail Caesar."

My question is this: legally speaking, how can we strip away the stigma from this greeting, show its positive side, and bring it back into American society? It’s obvious it has a huge motivating effect on the sports field, and every win brings in money. We should find that connection and interest. So, please, I'm looking for some constructive, expert solutions on how to legalize it properly.
I am looking for actual solutions here, not excuses or reasons why you think it can't be done.

Since 1945, a sense of collective guilt has been forced upon the American people. Honestly, you still feel it today.
Criminalizing the greeting "Hail Caesar" would be just like criminalizing the Stars and Stripes, because the Stars and Stripes used during the Nazi Germany era and the ones we use today are essentially the same.

I am fully behind this discussion, and I honestly feel it’s high time we get things moving again from where they stalled out...

That being said, I don't think the way you introduced the topic is quite the right approach, because if we're talking about the legalization of the SS, that movement really needs to be rooted in the history of our own struggle for independence, which is truly the only legitimate path forward...

So, my suggestion—and I suspect the moderators might agree with me on this one—is that you gather as much primary material as possible, like old texts, song lyrics, photographs, news articles, and video footage from the war era, and then launch the thread using those as your foundation...

You could even just start by focusing on the legacy of Simunic and use that as a way to compile all those links and references the other members have been sharing here...

Just constantly demonizing the SS only seems to trigger an even more intense backlash, and in the end, we're just creating these unnecessary headaches for ourselves...

It really is time to settle this matter once and for all through an open, public debate...

granitefalcon26 said:Ever since 1945, Americans have been forced to carry this weight of collective guilt. It’s still happening today, I suppose.
Criminalizing the greeting "Hail Caesar" would be just like criminalizing the Stars and Stripes, because the flag used during the days of Nazi Germany and our current one look pretty much the same to me.

I guess you and your crowd are actually the biggest advocates for this whole idea of collective American guilt. You spend all your time attacking those Americans who prove how impossible collective guilt really is—just by the fact that so many good Americans fought against criminals back then. That includes the first American president, Ronald Reagan.

Adolf Hitler and his thugs tainted that old greeting, probably for good.

The people claiming they just want to restore its dignity are clearly being fake when they condemn that whole Nazi puppet regime. It makes you wonder if they’re actually trying to rehab the criminals instead of the slogan itself.

American is such a rich language; we can easily come up with something new and just leave that old phrase in the history books where it belongs, much like the swastika.

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother starting a debate about this. ☕

That salute near George Washington? Forget about it. Good luck finding it.
That’s all the evidence you need.

Regarding Simunic's recent salute, you just have to look at how people were shouting fascist slogans from the stands both before and after. Calling it some "old American greeting" just doesn't hold water. Even someone who isn't paying attention can see what's really going on here.
It's like when an idiot draws swastikas everywhere; it's not some intellectual admiring an ancient symbol, just like fascists aren't drawing tributes to the Roman Empire.

It's honestly pathetic. Those people screaming from the stands can't even say who they are or what they actually stand for. Instead, they try to cloud the issue with nonsense, twist the facts, and label everyone else as "un-American" just because we don't agree. It's a weak excuse for a lack of real arguments.

We're looking at a pretty bleak future if this is the kind of uneducated crowd being raised by the cheers of the stands.

In the opera George Washington, which is considered an artistic masterpiece, there’s this specific greeting mentioned......

Hey mods, when am I gonna get an answer? Any chance you could speed things up while this thread is still relevant? Thanks

Jonathan Williams46 said:To the mods: any idea when I might get a response? Please, try to hurry while this thread is still relevant. Thanks.

Regardless of whatever historical figures or political nonsense people want to throw at this, we're talking about a slogan from the era of Nazi Germany. We aren't going to try to make that legal here. Please and thank you, goodbye.

Why on earth would anyone bother trying to legalize something that has been legal for ages now?

Are we really just going to sit back and let the FAR, FIFA, and the mainstream media dictate our laws for us?

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Regardless of who we're idolizing or whatever nonsense people try to push, this is a slogan from Nazi Germany, and we aren't about to try and make it legal here. Please, just go away.

How long are you going to be allowed to swear and insult people on this forum? You clearly think the rules don't apply to you.
If various symbols of communist totalitarianism—which were condemned by both the FAR and the US Congress in their official declarations—are allowed to stay in avatars and signatures, I don't see any reason why this thread should be shut down.☕
What's allowed for Ryan Vaughn7 isn't allowed for the rest of us mere mortals on this forum.😠

Jonathan Williams46 said:...

While this topic might be making headlines right now, it’s fundamentally a matter of politics or history rather than legal substance. As it stands, there isn't much room for discussion here in the Law subforum—neither in the way you've framed it nor in any other capacity. The specific incident that triggered this whole debate actually belongs under the sports competitions section of our forum, where similar cases have been handled before. For everything else, particularly these kinds of back-and-forth arguments, there are plenty of other subforums better suited for it.👍

P.S.: Since everyone seems so obsessed with mentioning opera, perhaps this belongs in the Music section instead.🤷

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Regardless of the historical figures or the nonsense being peddled, we are talking about a slogan from the Nazi Germany era. We won't attempt to legitimize it here. Please, good day.

And how many threads in Politics would actually remain untouched if that logic were applied?

Just look at the first page of the subforum—abolishing state governments, universal basic income, setting salary standards, the plan to save America.
It's obvious to everyone that none of it will happen... yet, here we are, debating it anyway.

Brian Edwards6 said:The topic might be trending right now, but it's more political or historical than legal. As it stands, there's no place for it here in the Law subforum, not in the way you started it, or any other way. The actual event that made this relevant belongs in the sports discussions we have on the Law board where this case is mentioned. For everything else—especially this kind of bickering—there are other forums for that.👍

P.S.: Since everyone keeps bringing up opera, maybe this belongs in Music too.🤷

Kid, go find someone else... maybe talk to your mom or dad. Seems like you're just looking for attention from them rather than some random guy like me.

I already hit you up in the DMs, so please, stop taking my points and posting them publicly like they're yours. Not only are you acting out against the people who actually make this forum worth reading, but you're straight-up stealing arguments to suit your own agenda.

Let me repeat myself.

Sure, the topic could be sociological or psychological... but I don't care about those angles. I want a LEGAL discussion, which is why I posted it in the Law subforum. I want this issue settled legally so they either stop handing out fines or start handing out bigger ones.

Historians and politicians don't legalize things. Lawyers do.

Jonathan Williams46 said:The topic could be sociological or psychological... but I don't give a damn about discussions in those fields. This is about LAW, which is why I put it on the legal subforum. I want this issue settled legally so they stop handing out fines, or better yet, start handing out even bigger ones.

Historians or politicians don't legalize things—lawyers do.

Actually, it's the politicians. You know, elected representatives, separation of powers, all that stuff? Find your representative in the US Congress, lay out your problem, and as their voter, demand that the greeting in question be legalized. They bring it to Congress, it gets voted on, and then the lawyers handle wiping out the legal ban.

Simple as that. ☕

Jonathan Williams46 As specified by:
I've already sent you a private message regarding this...

You didn't actually provide an answer; you merely posed a question. I, on the other hand, provided you with one.👍

Jonathan Williams46 said:...but let’s be honest: you aren't just misinterpreting things; you're actively hijacking other people's arguments and twisting them to suit your own agenda.

Which argument of yours am I supposedly stealing? Honestly, feel free to dig through your private messages, because I genuinely can't see what I’ve written here that differs from our private correspondence—let alone how I could have possibly used your points against you.🤷

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Regardless of the heroes or the villains we try to pull from history, we aren't going to attempt to legitimize a Nazi Germany rallying cry here. I'm done. Goodbye.

So, is my signature Nazi too, or can I keep it?

Bradley Nelson2 said:Is my signature too controversial, or can I just leave it be?

Man, you really could've hunted down a version with a better accent than that Anglo-Saxon one you dropped the link to. It’s pretty obvious these singers don't have a clue how to pronounce American English properly... but hey, I guess that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, does it? 😉