2013 German Grand Prix - July 7th

swifttiger75 said:I’m expecting the best from McLaren this year! Seriously, maybe both drivers finish in the points!

You putting up both kidneys if Perez actually lands in the points? 😁

Hey, tovar!

Just looking around to see where I should post an ad to sell two kidneys.
Should I put it under personal relationships—since you seem to have some connection to kidneys—or just stick it under miscellaneous? 🤣 🤣 🤣

It’s basically just Fernando Alonso and Kimi Räikkönen pushing as hard as they can—trying to cling to whatever points are left—while praying Sebastian Vettel makes a massive mistake.

It won't be an easy ride, though—especially since Ferrari and Lotus struggle in qualifying and when temperatures drop, whereas Mercedes seems fine, and Red Bull Racing is just squeezing every bit of potential out of their package. They’ve got the best setup for any condition and they're always lurking in the hunt for a win, one way or another.

Then again, we still have ten races ahead of us and plenty of points on the table—all it takes is one or two DNFs to turn this whole thing upside down.

Joseph Peterson8 said:If they hadn't screwed Mark Webber in the pits, you wouldn't be talking like this.

If they hadn't botched Webber's pit stop, things would look a lot different because that podium would've been Vettel-Webber-Räikkönen...
And Sebastian Vettel's lead over everyone else would’ve been even more massive.😉

Webber wouldn't have stood a chance at overtaking Vettel anyway. Red Bull Racing has these nasty issues following cars—even much slower ones—in dirty air, let alone cars that are just as fast...
It was obvious when Webber got stuck behind the first decent rival to Pastor Maldonado... he couldn't do a thing, even with DRS, and compared to Red Bull Racing, Williams is basically a trash can.

Sebastian Vettel put on an absolute masterclass today.
Lotus had their shot, but they just couldn't pull it off. They were consistently a step short. Both drivers were great, though.
Fernando Alonso could only match those guys ahead of him in brief bursts.

Red Bull Racing definitely has the most versatile car, which is a massive advantage given this year's tire circus.

What else did we witness yesterday?
And where on earth did Force India disappear to?

Yeah, there's definitely a question regarding Kimi's strategy—specifically that Lotus play with Kimi.
Could Kimi have actually pulled off the win if he’d just stayed out on those old tires instead of making that final pit stop?
Or should they have called him in a lap or two earlier?

It’s entirely possible Kimi would've taken it either way.
Regardless, given how things played out yesterday, Lotus is looking like a serious contender. Honestly, they might even be the strongest on the grid right now, maybe just a hair behind Red Bull Racing. Sure, everyone's hungry for more wins after that season opener, but with what they've got in this Lotus, they have plenty of reasons to be satisfied.

Honestly, I think Lotus just completely blew this race...
Em messed up the strategy with Kimi, though they might have even screwed up more with Grosjean.😳

Lotus definitely looked like the fastest car out there, especially after the SC...
That said, Grosjean looked way faster than Kimi.

1. The big mess was the whole Kimi vs. Grosjean fight that popped up right when Grosjean was actually making a move on Vettel... and naturally, he started losing ground because he was busy defending against Kimi instead of attacking Vettel...

2. Aside from that, it feels like Grosjean had much better and bigger chances... if they hadn't messed around and if he didn't have to dodge Kimi, he surely would've had a shot since he wouldn't have had any time to lose regarding the gap—he was already breathing down his neck anyway...
And Lotus showed they can manage tires better than Red Bull Racing, so I could totally see him putting the pressure on in those last two laps.

All in all, Lotus choked by favoring Kimi during the race. Sure, it made sense for the championship, but if Grosjean had won and Kimi finished third, Vettel's lead over Kimi would still have been narrowed by 4 points.
Basically, a mistake...

Hopefully they’re still fighting to keep him, but it looks to me like Kimi is definitely heading to Red Bull Racing.😁
Next season is going to be pretty interesting.🙂

BTW.
This tire situation is interesting...
Maybe it's just the temperature, but at the end of the day, among the teams that were banking on a change to their soft tire, it seems like only Force India blew it. And honestly, it looks like the reason might be tire rotation and pressure rather than the actual difference in the rubber itself...

But on the flip side, massive progress from Lotus—it's the first time they haven't struggled with the Medium tires.😳
Ferrari is also looking way better than before... now whether that's due to the tires or something else is hard to say.

Red Bull Racing stayed right where they were, while Mercedes-Benz is three steps backward...
Or maybe this was some kind of punishment from Bernie Ecclestone?🤣
That moment where Lewis Hamilton asked, "Am I sure I'm running the same tires as everyone else?" was interesting...
Who knows, maybe they actually didn't get the same tires.🤷

stormybadger8 said:Lotus definitely looked like the fastest car out there, especially after the SC...
Though honestly, Grosjean looked way faster than Kimi Räikkönen.

1. The whole mess was the Kimi vs. Grosjean battle popping up right when Grosjean was actually making a move on Vettel... and naturally, he started losing ground because he had to defend against Kimi instead of attacking Vettel...

2. Aside from that, I think Grosjean actually had much better and bigger chances... if they hadn't messed around and if he wasn't getting blocked by Kimi, he surely would have had more luck since he wouldn't have had to worry about the gap; he was already right on his tail anyway...
Besides, Lotus showed they manage their tires better than Red Bull Racing, so I could see him putting the pressure on in those last two laps.

Yeah, Grosjean was pushing hard.
Do you really think a 1-2 finish for Lotus was actually on the table!? (Kimi holding steady while Grosjean eventually overtakes)

Samuel Ruiz4 said:People should have placed bets on this.
It’s a shame there weren't more hot or high-temp races—the gap between Vettel and Kimi would have been much tighter than 41 points, and even Alonso wouldn't have pulled ahead of him.

Nice call on the prediction 🙏🙏

I actually remembered halfway through the race that someone had managed to land a Lotus on the podium 😁

stormybadger8 said:That little bit where Lewis Hamilton questioned if he was actually running on the same tires as everyone else was pretty interesting...
Who knows—maybe they didn't even get the same rubber🤷

When did he ask that?

I found it weird when he was on the radio right at the start while he was chasing Kimi Räikkönen - I have no grip man 🤷

Does it strike anyone else as just plain weird how the so-called "second" drivers constantly run into strategy disasters, pit lane screw-ups, or some other kind of absolute mess? You look at guys like Mark Webber or Felipe Massa...
It’s pretty obvious they basically exist just to be guinea pigs. 😂

And honestly, looking back through some of these old threads—seeing people acting all surprised just a few laps before the finish line and then the whole thing falling apart... what a joke! 😂

Jason Campbell70 said:At this rate, we might as well just let that sloppy driver take the win.

🤮

🤮

Roger Wright94 said:Yeah, Grosjean was really squeezing him.
Do you honestly think a 1-2 for Lotus was actually on the table!? (With Kimi staying out and Grosjean potentially overtaking)

Look, it wasn't impossible...
Though if I'm being totally honest, a Ferrari win wouldn't have even surprised me...
They seriously had it in the bag without any major issues standing in their way...

From what I saw, this was a rare race where the Red Bull competition made such incredibly brainless tactical calls...
Even Ferrari probably pulled one of their dumbest moves in years...

1. Qualifying was a breeze—they basically cruised into 4th and 5th place...
In the end, Massa had enough pace in Qualifying 2 to grab 4th, trailing Mark Webber by only 0.200 seconds.😳

Fine, you have some idea there's an issue with the Soft tire, so you decide not to use them in qualifying... I get the logic there, I can wrap my head around that, but after that? It’s just pure insanity...

Get this: they go out for Qualifying 3 on Medium tires, even though they know those six cars ahead of them are on Softs and they don't stand a prayer against anyone up there.
They also see that Jenson Button and Nico Hülkenberg aren't coming out of the pits and won't make another lap...
And they know that if they don't bring them in, they'll be starting based on their car numbers...
Meaning Alonso 7, Massa 8, Button 9, Hülkenberg 10...

So what do they do?
They bring them in for a lap and start on old, worn-out tires.🤣

I mean, hello? If they hadn't brought them in, they could have picked between fresh Softs or fresh Mediums, and either way, they would've had a massive advantage over those six ahead. Instead, they ended up pitting practically at the same time as everyone else on Softs, or maybe just slightly later, and naturally, they were significantly slower because of the harder rubber...

Then, by some stroke of luck, fortune wipes away all that nonsense from the free pitstop, and they proceed to make the stupidest mistake possible...
Take Alonso, for instance—he absolutely should have gone for Soft tires during the SC.
Restarting right behind the leaders in 4th, but on tires that are at least a second per lap slower...
Mind you, Alonso was 1.1 seconds faster than Grosjean on those tires, about 0.700 faster than Sebastian Vettel, and 0.300 faster than Kimi (on Softs😳)...
And at that exact moment, everyone ahead of him was sitting on Medium tires 😳.
Faster tires, better top speed, and two DRS zones...

Even if he burned through those tires quickly, it wouldn't have mattered because he'd have the track position, plus he'd be the first to pit and the first to set fast laps in clean air... which would have been right around the time Vettel, Grosjean, and Kimi came charging down the field...

All in all, a total tactical disaster, not just for Lotus, but for Ferrari too.
The competition essentially shot themselves in the foot during a race where they had huge opportunities...

Mercedes wasn't even really in the mix, but even they messed up by having Rosberg hold back Lewis Hamilton, despite them being on completely different strategies...
Just incredibly weird and incredibly foolish on Rosberg's part...

stormybadger8 said:If they hadn't screwed over Webber in the pits, he would have been much happier because the podium would have been Vettel-Webber-Räikkönen...
And the gap between Vettel and the rest of the field would have been even larger.😉

Webber would have had a hard time finding any way to overtake Vettel. The Red Bull Racing car has nasty issues with following even significantly slower cars in dirty air, let alone cars that are just as fast...
In the end, you saw this perfectly when Webber found himself stuck behind the first relatively decent rival to Pastor Maldonado... he couldn't do a thing to him even in the DRS zone, despite the fact that Williams is literally a junk heap compared to Red Bull Racing...

He was within half a second of him before entering the pits; if they had serviced him at the same time as Vettel, he might have already been ahead by then. Even if he came out behind, he would have had the whole race to hunt him down, and we would have been watching a much more interesting race.