Bad Boys - Part IV

Gary Martinez80 said:We don't need all this fluff. We need the old-school way... face to face... and let it go down. Stop with the stones and all these props! If we're going to settle things in the streets, let's do it right—hand to hand, not throwing rocks. I only fear God and nothing else. If there's a fight, I'm in. But throwing stones and carrying gear? No thanks. Next time we have a "critical" away game, I’m bringing my helmet. Forget the props and the rocks!

First off, Tapatalk First-grasses is just slang for a fair fight. Whether it happens in a field, a park, or a city street doesn't really matter.

Second—look at reality. We have a pretty stunted scene with maybe two and a half decent groups, and that's it. Do you realize what a hundred bans mean for the function or the demon? It's the end of fan activity. Americans have a small scene facing some of the most repressive laws in the West, alongside places like Poland. It's wild that in 2014, we are even debating whether it's better to negotiate a fair fight or attack rivals in the city center with bottles. Use your heads. We are such a small scene that we don't have the numbers or the luxury to go wild in the cities. It is not the same when a group of 5,000 loses 100 people to bans versus a group of 200 losing 100.

And as for how much more honest and safer organized fights are for everyone, there's no need to waste breath. All you need is guts. You don't even need to train.

Hey everyone, I see the debate over "toughness" is heating up again, so I figured I’d weigh in with some personal perspective. I’ve been into sports practically since I was a kid, and since 2009, I’ve stepped into the ring for about a dozen amateur and pro kickboxing matches at various tournaments—with mixed results, if I’m being honest. I train every single day; during "season," I’ll even pull double sessions. I drink quite a bit, I smoke occasionally, but I don't touch drugs, nor do I have any intention to. I don't use doping or steroids either. At around 195 pounds, if you saw me just walking down the street in normal clothes, you wouldn't guess I'm essentially a semi-pro boxer. But trust me, when I throw, I throw hard. Also, being part of the hardcore fan scene is a huge part of my life. I won't specify which group I belong to in this post, because you'll understand why. I’ve been reading people claim that Americans, Russians, and others are all just fake tough guys, and I’d like to offer a bit of a correction there. I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is no greater adrenaline rush than stepping into a ring 1-on-1 with someone, and frankly, it isn't for everyone. That sensation in your head and your stomach right before a fight—you have to learn how to master it, and once you do, that's when you can say a man actually has guts. What does this have to do with fans? It has everything to do with learning who sitting next to you in the stands actually has balls and who doesn't. Who is a coward and who isn't. Who is going to stand their ground for you, and who is going to bolt like a terrified child the second things get heavy. In this "street style" mentality that people started using a few years back—because apparently, we were all just polite Englishmen or something before that—you can never truly know who the cowards are standing right beside you. It’s the easiest thing in the world to hurl stones, flares, or bottles; that’s child's play. However, once the arsenal is empty and things escalate to full-on physical contact, that’s the moment you realize you're on the ground, watching your "brothers" in the stands sprinting away from the chaos. That is my own personal experience, and let me tell you, it was a painful lesson. I didn't get beaten up by professional fighters—in fact, I probably would have held my own 1-on-1 against most of them. But because of that lack of courage and strength that these "tough" fans love to brag about on Facebook and internet forums, you end up getting absolutely pummeled. That is the reality of most of our scene, and you can see for yourselves why there is so much resistance to organized clashes. All these fairy tales about a lack of spontaneity or "madness" are total nonsense. The only thing missing is actual courage. And once you feel that adrenaline and that madness that comes with an organized confrontation, I promise you, you’ll never want to go back to the old way of just throwing rocks and bottles. To circle back to the beginning: you don't necessarily have to be a fighter or train, though it certainly helps for your own sake. This is just my personal take, coming from someone who trains, drinks, smokes, and messes around just like anyone else. And what makes me happy is that lately, I've managed to bring a few more guys from the stands along with me on this journey. So, who knows, maybe one day... 🙂

Best regards.

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Greetings. I see the debate regarding "ultras" has flared up again, so I figured I’d weigh in with my own perspective. I’ve been into sports practically since I was a kid; specifically, I’ve been doing kickboxing since 2009, pulling off about a dozen amateur and pro matches at various tournaments with mixed results. I train daily—during "season," sometimes twice a day. I drink quite a bit, I smoke occasionally, but I don't do drugs and have no intention of starting. I don't touch doping or steroids, nor do I plan to. I weigh roughly 198 lbs, and if you saw me in regular clothes, you wouldn't guess I'm nearly a professional fighter. But I hit—and I hit hard. Also, being part of the fan culture is a massive part of my life. It doesn't matter which specific group I belong to for this particular point, though you'll understand why. I read some comments claiming Americans, Russians, and everyone else are just fake tough guys, and I’d like to correct that misconception. I can tell you with absolute certainty: there is no greater adrenaline rush than stepping into a ring 1-on-1 with someone, and that isn't for everyone. You have to learn how to master that feeling in your head and your gut before a fight; once you control that, that’s when you can say a man actually has guts. What does this have to do with fans? It has everything to do with it. You need to know who standing next to you in the stands actually has balls and who doesn't. Who is a coward, and who isn't. Who is going to back you up, and who is going to run like a total wimp when things get heavy. In this "American style" of chaos we've started calling ourselves lately—since apparently we used to be Englishmen or something a few years ago—you can never truly know who the cowards are sitting right beside you. Throwing stones, flares, or bottles is easy; it's child's play. However, once the arsenal is empty and it turns into full-on physical contact, that's the moment you realize you're on the ground, watching your so-called brothers from the stands sprinting away from the fray. That is my personal experience, and it was a painful one. I didn't get beaten up by pro fighters—in fact, I probably would have held my own 1-on-1 against any of them. But because of that lack of courage and the fake toughness people project on Facebook and online forums, our "hardcore" fans often end up getting pummeled like cattle. That is the reality of most of our scene, and you can see for yourselves why there is so much resistance to organized clashes. All these fairy tales about a lack of spontaneity or madness are nonsense. The only thing lacking is courage. And once you feel that adrenaline and that madness inherent in an organized confrontation, I promise you, you'll never want to go back to the old way of just tossing rocks and bottles. And to circle back to the beginning: you don't necessarily have to be a fighter or train, though it certainly helps—for your own sake. This is just my personal take, coming from someone who trains but also drinks, smokes, and messes around. On a positive note, I've managed to bring a few more guys from the stands along with me lately. So, who knows, maybe one day... 🙂

Best regards.

I honestly can't tell if it's the booze or, well...🤣🤣🤣🤣

George Lewis27 said:I’m honestly not sure if I’ve had one too many drinks or if, well...🤣🤣🤣🤣

It’s probably just the cocktails talking, haha, because I genuinely can't wrap my head around what's so hilarious here, nor am I aware of having offended you in any way. If I have crossed a line, please, do be specific so we can actually figure out where the issue lies.

Yeah, hey, let's run a little contest or something to see if we can guess which group or faction you actually belong to. 😁

This is officially my first time ever posting on a forum, but I couldn't just sit back and watch all this dramatic nonsense about the group falling apart. Let’s get one thing straight: the group isn't collapsing. Sure, there are bans and blacklists, but the Bad Boys are much bigger than a hundred names rotating in and out of the conversation for years on end. If a handful of people who think they run the show decided to force their will tomorrow, the group would simply turn its back on them. Consider this a warning to any future attention-seekers in the stands: don't bother. No one has ever led this group, and no one ever will. We are the collective; no single individual is above the cause. That’s exactly why we’ve survived—because the backbone of this movement is the healthy core of people who are loyal to the idea, not to specific personalities. We always come out on top, spitting in the face of the system and the criminals. I’m proud of this group and the guys who are facing the heaviest pressure right now.

Nicholas Anderson19 said:Come on now, let's run a little contest or something so we can finally guess which clique or faction you actually belong to. 😁

Bad Boys/East Bleachers/I want elections. What did I personally win from this giveaway?

Jeremy Thomas4 said:This is actually my first time ever posting on a forum, but I just couldn't sit back while reading all these dramatic little stories about the group falling apart and whatnot. Let me be clear: the group isn't collapsing. Sure, there are bans, and sure, there are blacklists, but the Bad Boys are so much more than some hundred names that cycle in and out year after year—names you people seem obsessed with debating. If a few guys tomorrow decided they wanted to force their own will on everyone, thinking they run the show, the group would simply turn its back on them. Consider this a warning to any future exhibitionists in the stands: don't bother. No one has ever led this group, and no one ever will. We are the group—every single one of us—and nobody stands above the collective. That’s exactly why we’ve survived; the core strength lies in the healthy majority who are loyal to the idea, not to specific individuals. We always come out on top, spitting in the face of the system and the criminals. Honestly, I'm just proud of my group and the boys who are facing the heaviest repression right now.

I said the same thing a while back. Your true strength comes from those guys from the Midwest who aren't for sale, and the crowd that's ready to follow them. Basically, it's a legal battle combined with the guys who will show up in the stands to prove you're still there.

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Bad Boys/East Stand/I just want elections already. What did I even get out of that giveaway?

I had Armada Girls on my mind for some reason, mostly because I noticed those guys are really into that whole vibe, though they don't exactly look like the skinny type, if you know what I mean. But hey, whatever, we're all in this together! At least there will be beer!🙂 😉

The bottom line is this: regardless of the training sessions, the local thugs, or the self-righteous types, there will always be people willing to stand their ground for a fair fight... but they’re constantly drowned out by that massive crowd that relies entirely on heavy firepower. That mob just packs up and retreats the second they run out of ammo, leaving those few principled individuals who actually want a real showdown to take the biggest hit. This cycle continues until someone finally catches a stray bullet to the skull and ends up dead or in a coma... then we'll all crawl back to our online forums to argue about nonsense and play the morality card. It’s pathetic, really. We’re all just cowards who can't even fix our own mess without hiding behind an arsenal...

Back in 1990, Marijan Šimić took a concrete block to the head during the war and ended up with a lifelong disability... but I guess for some people, even twenty-five years later, that doesn't seem to matter at all.

Anthony Barrett37 said:Marijan Simic was struck in the head by a stone block during the war in 1990 and became a permanent invalid... yet some people act like it means nothing even twenty-five years later.

Why are you even worrying about this? You won't get hit by anything if you stay home. ☕
Generally speaking, the ones who worry the most are the people who aren't involved in any of the mess... it's a paradox.

I’m curious to know how many of you guys involved in this whole mess of street brawls, petty gang wars, or just general hooliganism actually have kids at home? I’m not trying to get all philosophical on you, but I genuinely want to know. I find myself coming home after being gone for two days, and my wife and kids have absolutely no clue where I’ve been or why I went completely off the grid. It’s because nobody else was available to drop the little one off at preschool or take them to the pediatrician, and then I get calls from work saying they won't tolerate my lack of communication anymore since there’s no excuse for disappearing.

Just for context, I’ve already dealt with my fair share of legal trouble and some truly embarrassing nonsense—not to mention taking more hits in fights than I’ve actually landed—but I am sincerely asking.

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Hey, seeing this whole debate about "ultras" heating up, so here’s my take based on experience. I’ve been doing sports since I was a kid. Been in kickboxing since 2009, fought maybe ten amateur or pro matches at various tournaments—hit or miss. I train daily, sometimes twice a day during "season." I drink quite a bit, smoke occasionally, but I don't do drugs and have zero intention to. No doping or steroids for me. I weigh around 200lbs, and if I’m just wearing regular clothes, you wouldn't even guess I’m basically a pro boxer. But I hit hard. Real hard. Also, being part of the fan scene is my life. It doesn't matter which group I belong to for this post, you'll see why. I read people calling Americans, Russians, and everyone else fake tough guys, and I want to set the record straight. I'm telling you right now, there is no bigger adrenaline rush than stepping into a ring 1-on-1 with someone. That isn't for everybody. You have to learn how to control that feeling in your head and stomach, and once you master that, then you can say you actually have balls. What does this have to do with fans? It's simple: you need to know who next to you in the stands actually has balls and who doesn't. Who's a coward and who isn't. Who's going to stand by you and who's going to run like a little girl when things get heavy. With this "American style" thing that started being used a few years ago—since before that we were supposedly British or whatever—you can never tell who's a coward sitting next to you. Throwing rocks, flares, or bottles is easy; it's child's play. But once the stash runs out and it turns into full contact, that's when you realize you're on the ground and you see your buddies from the stands running away while you're getting stomped. That was my personal experience, and it sucked. And I didn't get beat up by pro fighters; I probably would've held my own 1-on-1 with anyone. But because of the lack of guts and strength that these "tough" fans brag about on Facebook and forums, you end up getting slaughtered. That's the reality of our scene, and you can see why there's so much pushback against organized fights. All those fairy tales about "lack of spontaneity" or "madness" are total BS. The only thing lacking is courage. Once you feel that adrenaline and the madness of an organized fight, I guarantee you'll never want to go back to just throwing stones and bottles. To circle back to the start: you don't have to be a fighter or train, but it's better for your own sake. Just my personal example, coming from someone who drinks, smokes, and messes around. And honestly, I've managed to pull a few more guys from the stands over to my side lately. Who knows, maybe one day... 🙂

Best,

Alright, fair enough. But is the only alternative to sticks, flares, bottles, and rocks just standing in a field? Why not just agree that hands and feet are the only weapons allowed?

I get it's not easy. When a massive crowd starts moving through a city or on a highway, obviously there are no rules. But I think if we could, say, the guys with the heavy loads, stand together in the stands, it shouldn't be that hard to arrange something like that.

Maybe at first, but eventually, people would start respecting it.

People are talking about this stuff way too openly here. Give me more ideas on where to set up, maybe some specific spots, so we can have 50 riot police descend on them immediately.

Kevin Evans3 said:I'm just messing with you guys. Obviously I'm against using axes or clubs, but like someone said—call a man out or don't. You gotta have some guts if you want to stir the pot (...)

What are you even joking about? 🤷

Exactly. This forum is essentially linked to the FBI and various other agencies that monitor correspondence on just about any subject imaginable. I know this from firsthand experience, having operated at a level significantly higher than your average user for quite some time. Seeing how they cross-reference IDs and track IP addresses alongside the origin of every post really makes me wonder why people insist on discussing anything of actual substance with such a glaring lack of intelligence. Forgive me, but I truly believe that's the case.
Then, someone decided to play the hero and "hack" my profile, sending messages under my name to important members of the group. Their goal was to manipulate people into leaking details about deals, agreements, and other sensitive matters.
Honestly, people, let’s get real; this isn't the time to be playing tough guys. Just remember that even back during the 1991 era, things weren't nearly as chaotic as you might think, so don't go expecting the masses to start rioting over every little thing.

Keith Cook2 said:I’m wondering how many of you keyboard warriors and wannabe gangsters actually have kids? I’m not trying to get deep or anything, just being real. I come home after being gone for two days, and my wife and kids have no clue where I was or why I didn't call. Nobody else could take the little one to daycare or the baby to the doctor, and then my job calls me up saying they won't accept any more excuses for why I went MIA. They're done with it.

Just so we're clear, I've been through hell—jail time, stupid mistakes I'm ashamed of, and I've taken way more beatings than I've ever handed out. But seriously, I want to know.

👍 These kids are gonna grow up in this mess too. Once they take out a mortgage and start filling their own fridge... ninety percent of these tough guys here will be back home in two days, opening the fridge and screaming at Mommy because she didn't buy their favorite deli meat or pâté.

Adam Long8 said:First off—calling it a "field fight" is just slang for a fair matchup. Whether it happens in some field, a national park, or out on a street corner is completely irrelevant.

Second—get real for a second and look at the actual situation. We have a pretty stunted scene here with maybe two and a half ultra groups that actually matter, and that’s it. Do you guys even grasp what it means when the Bad Boys or the Demons get hit with 100 bans? It’s the end of fan activity. Americans have a small scene dealing with some of the most repressive laws in the West, right up there with Poland, and it’s honestly pathetic that in 2014 we’re still debating whether it’s better to settle things fairly or just hunt down opponents in the middle of downtown with bottles. Use your brains. We are such a tiny scene that we don't have the numbers or the luxury to go playing wild in the streets. There is a massive difference between a group of 5,000 people losing 100 members to bans and a group of 200 people losing 100 members.

And as for how much more honest and safer these set-ups are for everyone involved... I don't even need to waste my breath. All you need is balls. You don't even need to train.

That's exactly my point: it doesn't matter if it's a field, a forest, or a hill... the main thing is that it's unarmed and relatively fair given the numbers. Is that really such a difficult concept to grasp?

John Brown30 said:slightly better qualifications 🤣

Well, looking at who's actually running the show as mods here, it’s pretty obvious 😁