Vlašić vs Kostelić

I love it when a conversation shifts from being totally off-track to something actually interesting like watermelon season.

Lino, get in here!

Look, there's no denying Blanka is easily the best high jumper out there, but let's be real—she isn't facing nearly as much heat as Ivica Kostelić is...

When "our girl" Blanka can walk away with a win jumping 202cm without even touching the 210cm bar, it tells you everything... she's good, sure, but the competition just isn't on her level...

I don't follow either of these sports, but stop acting like the coaches are the magic ingredient. Neither Kostelić, and especially not Vlašić, are coaching geniuses—their kids are just massive talents. Vlašić acts like he’s the sole reason for Blanka's success, and while he might have had a hand in it, it's nowhere near as big as he claims...

rapidstag2 said:I mean, what even is a man without a mustache? I suppose he's just some random Coach of the Year picked by the HOO.

Anyway, thanks, and good night.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Joseph Clark37 said:Of course it is. It's just not part of the collective consciousness here because we're actually good at it—otherwise, it would be irrelevant to us too.

Sure, maybe it's niche globally, but on a continental scale, it’s one of the big ones. For a sport that pulls crowds in Spain, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Russia, and across the former Yugoslavia, you can't exactly call it insignificant... 🤷

Or are all sports "marginal" if they aren't played by the English or Americans? 😁

Anyway, back to the main point: in my opinion, Vlašić's letter was completely unnecessary. Why does he even need validation? It's like he's doing this just to feel appreciated. You'd think his daughter's success would be enough satisfaction without him stressing over stuff like this. He had a point when he noted they missed some of his achievements, but instead, he wrote a letter basically attacking them for why he isn't the best coach. He should have just pointed out the data errors rather than whining about being the top coach, which is really just an indirect way of belittling Kostelić. Though, I do agree with him on one thing: being elite in men's skiing is a much tougher climb than being a top high jumper...

shadowgardener10 said:Anyway, regarding the topic, I think Vlašić’s letter is totally unnecessary. Why does he even need any kind of recognition? It feels like he's just doing it because he wants people to value him. Surely his daughter's success should be enough satisfaction for him, rather than stressing out over stuff like this. Although, he's right about the fact that they missed some of his achievements, but he wrote a letter where he's basically attacking them by implying he's a better coach. He should have just pointed out the missing data instead of complaining about being the best coach—which indirectly downplays Kostelić. I actually agree with that, since it's harder to reach the top in men's skiing than in women's high jump...

Let's go back to the start.
Here is Vlašić's letter:

I'll highlight this part:
"I'm not saying the committee will change their minds and put us ahead of the plaster, but I am surprised why our other major achievements from 2010 weren't listed here..."
"With this text, I don't intend to diminish the brilliance of Ante Kostelić, but rather to point out the issues in American sports that many people think and talk about, but are afraid to speak up about."

But yeah, he thinks he's a better coach than Kostelić. So what? He's allowed to think that. Especially when he actually has grounds for it.
And I don't see how that devalues either Kostelić or skiing.
That was the first letter. Later, Kostelić is the one who starts downplaying track and field, then Vlašić responds, then Kostelić hits back again. Now we're just waiting on Vlašić.
But Vlašić's initial reaction was justified.
Just look at this:

analogowl122 said:1. Rafael Nadal (Spain / tennis) 179 points

So, Nadal is the best athlete in Europe. And the world, according to most polls.
However, according to the USOPC—per Mateša's own words—and based on the achievements used for ranking, they only value Olympic, World, and European medals.
That means they didn't count the following for Blanka:
-7/7 wins at Diamond League meets
-Winning the World Athletics Cup (masters)
-18 tournament wins (ATP)

So, let's pretend Nadal were American, and the USOPC wanted to measure his success in 2010.
According to the USOPC, Nadal would just be some nobody who hasn't won a single medal from the Olympics, World Championships, or European Championships.
Mateša himself says that results at tournaments/meets don't count, only medals at the Olympics/World/Europe.
By those standards, Nadal is nothing to the USOPC. In 2010, he accomplished nothing.
Do you see how absurd Mateša and the USOPC's stance is now?
Vlašić's original reaction is completely valid.
As for the later back-and-forth between Kostelić and Vlašić, I won't even comment. You can only use ugly insults for both of them. And I don't want to go there.

Trying to pick the absolute "best" athlete is just a pointless exercise.

It isn't just that you can't compare different sports; you can't even meaningfully compare men and women within the same discipline. Even if you look at athletes of the same gender in the same sport, comparing them across different eras is incredibly difficult—even if they were competing at the exact same time but had similar levels of dominance.

Then there’s the issue of weighing the prestige and actual significance of the competition itself. For a swimmer or a track star, winning gold at the Olympic Games carries a completely different weight than a tennis player winning gold at the Olympics. A FIS Alpine Ski World Cup title or an ATP Tour win is fundamentally more significant than winning a Diamond League event.

And how do we even define success in certain sports? Is a victory more important, or is breaking a record? Personally, I think Blanka was more successful back in 2009. She was the World Champion and pulled off the second-best jump in history.

Must other sports be belittled this way? Is it true that unless you're rigging matches or battling mononucleosis, you aren't considered an elite athlete?

He really went too far....👎

Give me a break, now you're trying to compare Nadal to Blanka, tennis to track and field? 🤣

I get what you're getting at, but look—at a tennis tournament, you've got up to 128 players dealing with grass, clay, hard courts, carpet, wind, or indoor conditions. Regardless of what people say, Nadal's only real rival isn't just Federer. Djokovic, Del Potro, Söderling, and plenty of others are all legitimate threats to him. On the flip side, tennis is a much more diverse sport than high jump, in my opinion. High jump is a relatively monotonous discipline—though yeah, some tennis matches can be incredibly boring—whereas in tennis, you have to master a massive variety of strokes and movements.

Back in 2005, in this same type of selection, Ivan Ljubičić took it. You know him, right? That year, Ivan was "only" ranked ninth on the ATP Rankings, but he led the US to a Davis Cup title. In 2005, the handball national team grabbed silver at the World Championships, Draganja took silver at the World Aquatics Championships... stuff like that comes to mind immediately. Basically, Nadal wouldn't be some underdog for the HOO; he’d definitely be the Athlete of the Year. People would probably still be fighting over the best coach because that was the year Janica won three gold medals at the World Championships. 😁

You have to look at this from a broader perspective. Don't just obsess over the raw numbers; look at the whole sport. To me, skiing is a more interesting, grueling, and demanding sport than high jump. I'm not trying to downplay Blanka at all, but I think Ivica put in way more effort to achieve everything he did. Plus, Blanka has two coaches, Marinović and Joško, so it's tricky to give credit to one while leaving the other out in the cold.

ambercobra28 said:The FIS Alpine Ski World Cup and the ATP Tour carry way more weight than the Diamond League.

Where are you even getting that from?
Let me put it this way:
-Weltklasse Zürich is a Diamond League track meet. It’s been running since 1928.
And people actually describe it by saying, "it is sometimes referred to as the one day Olympics."
That puts its importance right behind the Olympic Games. It's miles ahead of some random ATP tournament or a ski race... it's basically on par with Wimbledon. That's how the world sees it. Things just look different here in the States.
-Bislett Games Oslo has been around since 1924 and sits just a notch below that. Think along the lines of a tennis Grand Slam.
Blanka won both of them last year...

I don't know what to tell you. Just another day. ambercobra28 says:
The news about the cast is out. It looks like things aren't going to go as planned for the upcoming season. Just my luck, watching everything fall apart from the sidelines.

Does it really have to be this way? Like, you can't be an elite athlete unless you're rigging matches or battling mononucleosis? Such a joke.

He really went too far this time...👎

He definitely went overboard, and there was absolutely no reason to drag Snježana Pejčić into this, but I get where he's coming from. Honestly, the guy has poured his entire life into coaching kids and skiing since they were toddlers. It was always a massive gamble that they might never make it. He’s dealt with way more heartache than Joško ever has.

Vlašić didn't attack him directly in the letter, but he really shouldn't have done that regardless. Just plain stupid.

analogowl122 said:Mateša says that results from tournaments and smaller meets don't really count. It's all about those medals at the Olympic Games, the World Championships, and the European Championships.
When it comes to HOO, Nadal is a nobody. He didn't accomplish anything in 2010.
Do you realize how absurd Mateša and the HOO actually are right now?
And that initial reaction from Vlašić was... Completely justified..

Well, that first reaction was certainly something. Completely unjustified. Everyone already knows what counts toward the HOO selection and what doesn't. There are a thousand different ways to pick a winner using a thousand different criteria. I don't see the point in all this complaining; based on the established rules, you just didn't come out on top. Period.

I could understand people complaining if Sports Illustrated let everyone vote for whoever they wanted, only to have Vlašić go around whining that her achievements aren't being properly recognized or valued.

The HOO looks at all the data points—his results versus yours—and based on our specific criteria, his stats carry more weight right now. Just keep grinding through training and we'll see where things stand a year from now. Thanks for the heads up.

Daniel Cooper40 said:Seriously, man, you're really out here trying to compare Rafael Nadal to Blanka Vlašić? Tennis versus track and field? 🤣

Just look at the lists for the best athletes in the world and the US over the last decade.
Or even just the ones listed right here.
Take this, for example— http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laureus..._Sports_Awards
It makes everything pretty obvious.
When it comes to individual sports on a global scale, tennis and track and field absolutely dominate.
No other sport even comes close (though F1 is its own beast).
Yeah, tennis and track and field really stand out as the most prestigious sports globally. They're the only ones you can truly put in the same conversation because they're leagues ahead of everyone else.
It doesn't matter if people around here have a different opinion or find something else more interesting.
The rest of the world has already made its choice.
And if you think Blanka Vlašić isn't putting in the work, you couldn't be more wrong.
I remember that episode of Currency exchange.
Blanka swapped roles with a shepherd.
This guy was a Black athlete in incredible shape—spent all day working out in the mountains.
Even he couldn't last three minutes doing one of Blanka's usual workouts. He was totally spent.
Honestly, none of us here could survive three minutes of that unless we were elite pro athletes ourselves...

analogowl122 said:She isn't really an outlier here.
Her main thing was the long jump. Nothing else really.
The heptathlon was just a "bonus," even if it ended up being her primary focus. There are a few other athletes out there who have one standout discipline but still managed to pull off something decent in the heptathlon or decathlon.
But they were never truly elite in any of those seven or ten events, except for their specialty.

Ah, my bad. When you mentioned disciplines that aren't complementary and require different types of training, I didn't realize you meant one had to be high jump while the other couldn't be the heptathlon. You're right, though—no pure high jumper has ever walked away with a medal in a different event.

On a side note, despite the fact that the heptathlon was basically just a "bonus" for her—even though she holds the world record in it today—Jackie was still named the female athlete of the century. Her best high jump was 193 cm. To put that in perspective, even by today's standards, she’d be making the finals at the World Championships in high jump. Based on heptathlon scoring tables, that would be like a high jumper clearing 6.92 in the long jump. She would have grabbed bronze in the last two World Championships, and actually taken gold back in Helsinki.

Jose White18 said:Honestly, that initial reaction is completely unjustified. Everyone already knows how the USOC makes its selections—it’s pretty standard. There are a million ways to pick a "best athlete" using a thousand different sets of criteria. I don't see the point in all this whining; if you don't meet their specific metrics, you aren't number one. Period.

I could understand people complaining about some random sports magazine poll where everyone just votes for their favorite person, leading to Vlašić venting about her achievements being overlooked. But this isn't that.

The USOC looks at specific stats. You have these results, he has those results, and by their math, his are more significant. Just keep training and we'll check back in next year. Simple as that.

I think nobody has brought this up yet, but the elder Vlašić and Marinović actually shared the USOC Coach of the Year award back in 2008—the same year Blanka took home her Olympic silver.

analogowl122 said:If you think Blanka isn't putting in the work, you're dead wrong.
I remember that show, Currency exchange.
Blanka did a role swap with this shepherd guy.
The guy was Black and in incredible shape—spent all day working out on Mount Rainier.
Even he couldn't last three minutes in a standard session of Blanka's training. He was done.
Just like none of us here, unless we're elite athletes, could survive three minutes of that.

Same goes for that guy; he probably wouldn't last three minutes in Kostelić's training either.

Look, Blanka works hard at a world-class level, everyone knows that. And again, I really don't want to downplay her achievements at all, but I honestly think Ivica poured more blood into this than she did. It’s just how it is. That’s the nature of skiing. Which is why I can kind of justify the Cast. After everything he's been through in life, then a Vlašić comes along and starts her own thing.

Daniel Cooper40 said:Plus, I bet that guy wouldn't even last three minutes in Kostelić's training sessions.

Look, Blanka is out there killing it on the world stage, everyone knows that. And seriously, I’m not trying to downplay her wins at all, I really am, but I honestly feel like Ivica put in way more blood, sweat, and tears than she did. I mean, it’s just how it goes, right? That's just skiing for you. So, I guess I can kind of get why he's in a Cast. After everything he's dealt with in life, then this Vlašić comes along and starts her own thing.

So, okay, people say Blanka doesn't have competition because she's "bad"—yeah, right. Let's see analogowl122 name 7 or 8 high jumpers who are constantly clearing over two meters.☕I don't think they even exist, and that has nothing to do with the fact that Blanka dominates.
Ivica, on the other hand, deals with massive competition, and even Janica had Anja to contend with. It's like... imagine if Blanka had a rival right next to her who was constantly jumping at the exact same heights she was.

Matthew Anderson4 said:women's sports are totally overrated, btw🙂

Signature☕

Daniel Cooper40 said:Seriously, please don't start comparing Rafael Nadal to Blanka Vlašić or tennis to track and field. 🤣

I get what you're trying to say, but look—at a tennis tournament, you might have 128 players competing on grass, clay, hard courts, or carpet, dealing with wind outdoors or controlled indoor conditions...

Besides, when Blanka steps onto the track, she performs maybe five sets of 50 seconds each. Nadal plays five sets of 50 minutes. It's a tiny difference. 😁
And if we consider that Blanka does those 5x50 second bursts about 20 times a year, while he plays how many matches annually? 🤔

That’s why any comparison between different sports just doesn't make sense.
Plus, we're actually debating who the best COACH is, not the best athlete. If I gathered some kids from my apartment building and turned them into world champions in table tennis or curling within a single year, I'm the one who deserves the award for that year, not Vlašić (meaning Marinović), who has had long-term success with her athlete.

analogowl122 said:Where on earth are you getting that idea?
Let me give you an example:
-Diamond League meets - major track and field meets. They've been running since 1928.
And people literally say this about them, quoting here: "it is sometimes referred to as the one day Olympics"
So, in terms of prestige, they're right up there after the Olympics. Way more important than some random ATP tournament or a ski World Cup race. They're in the same league as Wimbledon. That's how much the world values them. It’s obviously viewed differently here at home.
-Prefontaine Classic in Seattle - has been around since 1924 and sits just a notch below. Like a tennis Grand Slam.
Blanka won both last year.

It never even crossed my mind to downplay New York City (my sport is track and field, not just as a spectator).

I'm comparing the significance of the Diamond League for track athletes to the ATP tour for tennis players. For tennis pros, the ATP tour is everything. What does the Diamond League mean to Usain Bolt? What does winning in New York City mean to him compared to what a win at Wimbledon means to Rafael Nadal? How often does Blanka mention her wins in New York City during her interviews?

New York City or Seattle don't always feature the absolute best athletes, and it isn't just about injuries.
But Wimbledon or the French Open without the top seeds? That's tough, really tough.

Bacon and onions or maybe some smoked ham and onion?
Man, both of these guys are just unbearable and way too full of themselves. Total ego maniacs, the works! But hey, at least Joško isn't constantly lurking in the shadows behind Ed Koch, Mamić, Jadranka, or the Republican Party. And don't even get me started on how they raise kids with that whole "my country right or wrong" obsession. Seriously, total gips brain.🤣