Brazil vs. USA - Nov 7, 2010

analogowl122 said:Of course there would be some concessions. They might even happen before the final lap if it looks like things aren't going to shift.
But man, what a massive scandal that would have been 🤣
And let's not forget the Red Bull crew were the loudest ones screaming against any kind of team orders.
It would have been even more hilarious if Vettel let Webber past a bit earlier instead of waiting until the very last lap—just to make it look less suspicious 😬 . And then imagine if Alonso just pulled out of the race entirely 😁

Honestly, it should have happened given how hard the team was pushing for Vettel to take the championship, hahahahahaha. I would've spent a whole week laughing if he actually let him through, and then had Alonso drop out right after, hahaha.😂

mistybear87 said:in that scenario, if anyone in that team actually had half a brain or an ounce of authority, Webber would be taking the championship 😉

So you're telling me if you were in Vettel's shoes, you'd just step aside for Webber?
And why? Just to say thanks for his generosity and his big mouth!?

Joshua Newman2 said:if Webber left (say, instead of that disastrous Massa move to Ferrari...

Ferrari wouldn't take Webber even if Mark paid them to drive.

They've always preferred smart drivers over others at Ferrari, and Webber definitely isn't that. 😁

Morgan Murphy7 said:you clearly have no clue

If they’d just played their cards right and backed Webber from the start, we wouldn't be stuck in this mess where even Fernando Alonso could snatch the title with a third-place finish.🤷

If they had gone all-in on Vettel, he’d be sitting on about 50 more points than Webber right now, and Nico wouldn't even be in the conversation.

Webber is only still in this because of what happened in Turkey, Vettel dropping back, and that whole mess with Vettel finishing 7th.

If Vettel had actually let Webber pass every single time, Webber wouldn't even be fighting for the championship. If they hadn't been constantly tripping over each other, Vettel would've clinched the title long before the race in Brazil.

mistybear87 said:if anyone in that team actually had half a brain or any authority, Mark Webber would be winning the championship right now. 😉

in that scenario, they’d finally rein in that bully, and Vettel would just sit there and eat his own words.🙄

If he pulls that, there's zero chance I'm ever rooting for him again. 🙂

The truth is, Red Bull completely screwed up in Turkey during the race, and everything since then is just the fallout. Who cares now? They should just stick to their guns and let the better driver win.☕

stormybadger8 said:If they'd just put their money on Vettel, he would've walked away with about 50 more points than Webber, and Nico wouldn't have stood a chance.

Webber only stayed in the hunt because of Turkey and Vettel pulling back, plus all that pushing and Vettel finishing 7th.

If Vettel had actually let Webber pass every single time, Webber wouldn't even have a title to his name. If they hadn't been constantly fighting each other, Vettel would have secured the championship way before Brazil.

You're right about most of it.
But you're forgetting one detail we've already chewed over here and mostly agreed on.
Do you honestly think Webber is the kind of guy who just lets people walk all over him?

Morgan Murphy7 said:It’s obvious divine justice needs to hit Red Bull for pushing Vettel so hard. I swear, they'll do anything just to make sure Webber doesn't get credited with 👎

Give me a break... I don't see much forcing going on here, honestly. Besides, Vettel is arguably faster and more reliable than Mark. He usually loses points because of engine failures, whereas Mark mostly loses them because of his own wild driving style...

And if you ask me, Mark probably would have been fired a long time ago just because of how he carries himself. 😳

1.Lewis Hamilton
2.Mark Webber
3.Sebastian Vettel
4.doesn't matter
5.Fernando Alonso

standings
1.Fernando Alonso 256*
2.Mark Webber 256
3.Lewis Hamilton 247
4.Sebastian Vettel 246

So, yeah, it's pretty obvious

Unless Red Bull pulls some miracle, Alonso just needs to grab at least 4th place to seal it

And why on earth do we have to deal with 19 races this year?😠

Roger Wright94 said:You're spot on.
Except you're missing one detail we've already chewed over here and mostly agreed on.
Do you honestly think Mark Webber is the type to just roll over and take it?

If you're a parent, your kid doesn't get to boss you around.
If you're the boss or the owner, your employee doesn't tell you how to run your business.

That's the core issue. Webber acts the way he does because he knows the management structure at Red Bull Racing is a complete disaster.

If they had actually stood up to the idiots properly, everything would be fine—either the situation would be fixed, or one of them wouldn't even be driving anymore. Instead, we're stuck with this third option they've been pulling all season, and frankly, no sane person should tolerate it.☕

Joshua Newman2 said:So, let's say in the next race, Vettel takes first, Webber comes in second, and Alonso is third. It’s not an impossible scenario—it's actually pretty plausible—and that would make Alonso the champion. But if Vettel, who can't realistically win the title unless he beats Alonso by more than five spots anyway, were to let Webber past, then Webber would be the champion. That's just not going to happen; at least not as long as Red Bull sticks to their mantra about not using team orders. Similarly, in that specific scenario, Alonso becomes champ essentially because of team orders, since he wouldn't have reached that point if Massa hadn't let him through back in Germany. In that messy hypothetical, Red Bull loses the title by playing fair against someone who isn't. Otherwise, they're both equally ruthless—though I find it hard to believe, because I guess Vettel would rather set his own hair on fire with a flashlight than let Webber snatch the title from him(and vice versa, if the roles were reversed).

Come on, seriously? If we're looking at a situation where Seb is first, Mark is second, and Alonso is third—and Seb has zero chance of winning the championship anymore—then Seb lets Webber through. That part is obvious. 🤷There's no doubt at all, Gil. 😁

Even Seb himself has already hinted that he'll "do whatever it takes to ensure Red Bull gets the driver's title." 😉

There's really no question that he'll let him pass... and nobody is going to need to tell him over the radio. 😉 😁

The fact that they didn't want to do it earlier in the season doesn't matter here. The final race is a different animal entirely; you look at it differently... Even at Red Bull, 😁

Another equally likely option is Webber finishing first, followed by Vettel, then Alonso. In that case, Webber becomes the champion. But would it ever cross Vettel's mind to "make a little mistake" and let Alonso past, thereby screwing over Webber? I wouldn't bet on it being out of the question.

You've gone a bit crazy. 🤣Sure, they're competitive and they don't exactly get along, but I don't think they're quite that unhinged. 😁😁😁

Pato, I honestly believe that both Webber and Vettel are praying to God that if they don't clinch the title, it at least goes to Fernando Alonso. It’s a lot like how I suspect Hamilton would have preferred Kim's championship over his own teammate's success. Besides, I’m not convinced Red Bull would ever go as far as asking Vettel to step aside for Webber. They are building their entire foundation around him, and losing him would be a massive risk. They'd likely hand over the title before they let Vettel walk. Now, if the situation were reversed... 🤣

stormybadger8 said:if he actually did that, we'd be giving credit to some total thug, and Vettel would probably just end up eating his own words🙄

if he pulls that move, there is no way I’m ever rooting for him again🙂

The thing is, Red Bull completely messed up in Turkey during the race itself, and whatever consequences follow now are on them. They should just stay consistent and let the better driver win☕

You guys are crazy🤣

I don't think you get it—there isn't even a debate here. Of course Seb is going to let Webber through if that's what needs to happen. 😁

The last race is the last race😉

And if you're saying you won't support Seb because of this, then I'm speechless. 😁 Personally, I'd stop rooting for him before he actually refused to do it. 🤷

I guess there's a difference between not wanting to do something mid-season—especially when both drivers are still fighting for the title—and doing it in the final race when one driver is already out of the championship hunt. 😁

He's obviously going to let him through! Seriously! 😁

Joshua Newman2 said:Pato, I honestly think both Webber and Vettel are praying to God that if they don't take the title, it at least goes to Fernando Alonso.

One thing is certain: they can pray to God all they want in their own heads, but eventually, reality and common sense are going to force their hand. 😁

Let's not be as naive as a group of French maids. 🤦 😁

Besides, I'm not exactly convinced Red Bull is going to go as far as asking Vettel to step aside for Webber. Basically, he's busy building up a whole new roster, and they could easily lose him in the process. Because of that, I guess he’d probably just hand over the title rather than let Sebastian Vettel have it. Now, if the situation were reversed... 🤣

I mean, there’s really no need to go looking for anything. I guess Seb already has it all mapped out in his head...

And I'm telling you, he's already gone on record saying he'll do whatever it takes "for the team." 😉 Maybe Red Bull pulls off the Constructors' title too. 😁

What is wrong with you people? 😁

And Seb won't be sulking, so he isn't exactly an idiot. 🤣 Of course, he knows exactly what needs to be done...

That’s going to be a completely different scenario from anything we've seen so far. It honestly won't have anything to do with those old arguments about missed opportunities or favoritism during the season. I guess it's just obvious that a driver who no longer has any realistic shot at the championship is going to do whatever is necessary to help the team. team-wise Hey guys, here you go. Last one. races.

I mean, look, every driver in every single team—it's just a given that they don't exactly like each other. It’s completely normal, honestly. People need to get real about this. 😁

cosmicridge5 said:I am. 😬

I find myself wondering if I should even care, or if that level of concern is just an unnecessary weight to carry around in this life. Is it worth the mental energy? Probably not. 🙏 So, we find ourselves looking back at Abu Dhabi, where Fernando Alonso managed to snatch that pole position, and you have to wonder if we're ever truly going to see anything like that kind of pure, raw driving again? It’s one of those moments that stays with you, isn't it, just sitting there in the heat of the desert, wondering how much of it was sheer brilliance and how much was just the stars aligning for him at exactly the right second? 🙏 🙏 🙏

And then, just like that, a win and the fastest lap to top it all off. 🙂 😍

So be it. 🙂

Morgan Murphy7 said:It’s honestly wild how much magic Alonso manages to pull out of that absolute junk heap they call a car. How does he actually find any pace at all with a machine that feels like it was cobbled together in a garage? It makes you wonder if we're watching a driver or a miracle worker. If he actually manages to snatch that championship title, we might just be looking at the most earned, hard-fought victory in Formula 1 since 2006. 🙏

Keep pushing forward, Team Ferrari.🙂

cosmicridge5 said:You guys are nuts 🤣

I don't get why people aren't seeing this. There’s no debate here. If of course Sebastian Vettel needs to let Mark Webber through, he's gonna do it. 😁

It's the last race. Period. 😉

And if you're saying you won't root for Sebastian anymore because of this, I've got nothing to say to you. Honestly, I'd stop being a fan if he actually refused to do it. 😁 🤷

Look, refusing to help during the season—especially when both drivers are fighting for the title—is one thing. But it's a totally different story when it's the final race and one driver is already out of the championship hunt. 😁

He's obviously going to let him through! Seriously! 😁

Don't sweat it. You already know Fernando Alonso is just gonna win the last race and settle the whole championship drama anyway.😳

We need to get an Abu Dhabi thread going ASAP.
I don't see much point in talking about today's race. It was a total snooze fest.

I did miss one specific moment, though.
How exactly did Lewis manage to get ahead of Jenson Button? How did he make that pass?
It’s not that I care about the result, I’m just curious how they pulled it off.

Roger Wright94 said:I missed one specific moment.
How and when did Lewis get ahead of Jenson Button? When exactly did he overtake him?
It’s not that I mind it; I’m just curious about how they pulled it off.

You're probably thinking of that moment when Novak Djokovic called it "Jenson Button pushing Lewis Hamilton out of the way." 🤔

It happened through the pit lane during the SC.

Douglas Parker61 said:Why even worry? I mean, we all know Fernando Alonso is just going to take the win at the final race and settle this whole debate about the new champion once and for all.😳

🙂

🙂

cosmicridge5 said:You guys are insane 🤣

Seriously, what part of this aren't you getting? There’s no debate here. Of course obviously Sebastian Vettel is going to let Mark Webber through if he needs to. It’s that simple. 😁

It’s the last race. Period. 😉

And if you can't support Sebastian because of that, I don't know what to tell you. 😁 Personally, I’d stop rooting for him before I’d ever refuse to do that. 🤷

Look, refusing to play ball during the season—especially when both drivers are still fighting for the title—is one thing. But this is the final race, and one driver is already out of the championship hunt. It's a totally different story. 😁

He’s going to let him through! Duh! 😁

Listen, cosmicridge5, Mark Webber was clearly slower, yet he somehow managed to knock Sebastian Vettel right out of the championship fight. In Turkey, Webber basically spit in the face of the whole Red Bull Racing crew. Sebastian did everything he could, but he was slower than him in Turkey, and Webber essentially trashed his chances and pissed all over the team. He did the same kind of thing last year just to make sure Sebastian had to fight tooth and nail for that miracle win. 🙄 Now you want him to just hand over the title on a silver platter just so the winner comes from the Red Bull Racing ranks? As if anyone in that garage actually gives a damn about the team anymore.

Well, dear cosmicridge5, then we're just talking about pure commercialism and shitty Red Bull Racing marketing. That has nothing to do with actual sports. Forget that nonsense about "letting a slower teammate through for the good of the team." No real athlete is going to do that. If they do, they become a complete jerk. Maybe not in the eyes of the owners, and maybe not to some obsessed fans, but in their own eyes? Absolutely. Every single time he looks in the mirror for the rest of his life, he'll be thinking, "I'm a total jerk." ☕

So, before I forget, let me just say this

that move during the race where Fernando Alonso managed to get past Nico Hulkenberg was absolute class.

🙏 🙏 🙏

What a brilliant maneuver, and what an incredible driver he is. 🙏