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2010 Bahrain Grand Prix

Started by Ryan Gomez4 · · 👁 17 views · 241 replies

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Participants Ryan Gomez4stormybadger8Jessica Torres63slybison8Keith Rodriguez27Jose Ward11Thomas Morales13hollowhawk412Bradley Nelson2Matthew Wilson50Jeffrey Hill5Christian Williams61Olivia Taylor2silentbear49wanderingbison9Chris Chase5silversurfer45Arthur Roberts12Mark Ruiz8Michael Lee4Thomas Martin4mistybear87amberseal23rustystag7 …
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#221 ·
Arthur Doyle70 said:My colleague hit the nail right on the head with everything he just said...😉

Anyway, the regulations allow Renault to make those updates... and if my memory serves me right, they’ve actually gone ahead and done it. 🤷Honestly, if you look at the situation objectively, Mercedes really should have done more to "reign in" that supposedly superior engine...
Honestly, the entire Paddock is buzzing with this idea that Mercedes currently has the top-tier engine, and frankly, I just don't get it; it feels like everyone has lost their minds and simply doesn't understand how any of this actually works.🤷 Even Ferrari was struggling with overheating issues during the race, which actually forced them to tell Mass to dial back the intensity a bit, all while they were dealing with those engine modifications.
I honestly feel like every single year you come back to this exact same point, preaching about how Renault is eventually going to beef up their engine enough to sit right alongside Mercedes, but let’s call a spade a spade here—isn't that just a roundabout way of admitting that the Mercedes power unit is objectively superior?😉

Adrian Newey’s design philosophy—especially when you factor in Kimijev's contributions—has essentially torched more engines than Newey, Vettel, and Webber could ever hope to burn combined.🤣🤣

By the way... does anyone else remember that absolute circus involving all that smoke coming off Webber's car? It was like they had some kind of ridiculous smoke machine built right into the chassis just to make sure the driver behind couldn't see a single thing in front of him.😬

How on earth could I possibly know? Truth be told, I don't know either, and if I'm being completely honest, I’m mostly just throwing darts at a board here. It seems like everyone is talking in nothing but conditionals lately—all this "what if" and "could be" nonsense—just whispering quietly among themselves instead of actually saying anything meaningful. Hush, hush, indeed.

Who exactly is giving you the impression that Renault is being granted permission to make these modifications? You’re speaking with such absolute certainty, as if you have some kind of inside track on the regulations, which is quite a bold stance to take.

There you go with the Adrian Newey talk again... you really have to learn how to read between the lines here, if you ask me.
So, according to this text, Red Bull has just gone ahead and asked the FIA to let Renault make some changes.



Even though there was supposed to be a complete freeze on engine development under those regulations, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that Mercedes worked incredibly hard on their V8 power unit behind the scenes. It seems they just couldn't help themselves, pushing the limits of what was allowed while everyone else was playing by the rules.

That is the opinion of Adrian Newey, which comes at a time when rumors are swirling that his F1 employer Red Bull has asked the FIA to step in and help Renault catch up with the sport's best engine.

The designer behind the RB6 was quoted in the Observer making a rather pointed observation regarding the disparity in development cycles, essentially arguing that while Mercedes pushed the envelope aggressively during what was supposed to be a period of engine freezes, other teams—Renault in particular—played strictly by the rules, maintaining their integrity by sticking to the cost-cutting mandate and refusing to pursue further development once the freeze was in place.

Adrian Newey suggested that everything would align perfectly if Renault could actually manage to catch up with the sport's best engine.The bottom line remains exactly what I’ve been saying all along: they simply have to bring that engine up to scratch if they want to stand a chance.

It’s honestly a bit rich for Red Bull to be sitting there acting all high and mighty about how much Mercedes has improved, especially when you consider the sheer hypocrisy of the situation; after all, the Milton Keynes crew was actually looking to jump ship and align themselves with the German manufacturer for the 2010 season.

"We performed an incredibly deep dive into the Cosworth engine situation as well, scrutinizing every single detail. Ultimately, despite our best efforts, Brawn and McLaren effectively shut the door on us securing a Mercedes power unit, which left us in a bit of a bind, but honestly, we found ourselves feeling quite content with the decision to stick with Renault in any case."Adrian Newey added,"


It wasn't even that long ago that some list was circulated claiming the power gap between the strongest and weakest engines on the grid was only about 15 horsepower...
Toyota was easily the weakest link in the bunch...

It feels like we’re being drowned in a massive flood of raw data, yet somehow, we're left starving for actual, meaningful information.
Maria Nelson2 Maria Nelson2 Active Member
154 messages
joined Nov 2007
#222 ·
hollowhawk412 said:How would I know? Honestly, I haven't a clue either... I’m mostly just guessing at this point. Everyone seems to be talking in circles, using nothing but "what ifs" and "could bes"... just hush, hush.

Who on earth told you that Renault is allowed to make those changes? You're talking like you've got some kind of inside track on the rulebook.

There's Newey again... you really have to learn how to read between the lines if you want to understand what's actually going on. That's just my take.
So, according to this, Red Bull has actually gone and asked the FIA to let Renault make some changes.



Even with those rules meant to freeze engine development, Mercedes worked incredibly hard on their V8, pushing the limits of what was actually allowed.

That is the opinion of Adrian Newey, especially now that rumors are swirling that his F1 employer Red Bull has asked the FIA to allow Renault to catch up with the sport's best engine.

According to the Observer, the designer behind the RB6 basically called out the field, noting how Mercedes pushed the envelope during what should have been an engine freeze period. He pointed out that while teams like Renault in particular played by the rules and stuck to the cost-cutting spirit of keeping things frozen, Mercedes went full throttle on development anyway.

Newey mentioned that everything would be just perfect if Renault could actually manage to pull it off.They really need to bring that engine up to scratch if they want to stand a chance.

Red Bull can't really afford to talk much trash about how Mercedes is developing their car, mostly because they were actually looking to jump ship and sign with the German outfit for 2010.

"We took a really deep dive into the Cosworth engine, too. Ultimately, Brawn and McLaren shut the door on us getting access to the Mercedes power, but honestly, we ended up feeling pretty good about sticking with Renault in any case."that is the opinion of Adrian Newey," added Newey


Not too long ago, there was this list floating around claiming the gap between the strongest and weakest engines was only about 15 horsepower... honestly, I find it hard to believe, but then again, I've seen enough nonsense in this sport to know nothing is ever quite what it seems.
Toyota was easily the weakest one out there.

It feels like we’re being flooded with a mountain of raw data, yet somehow, there’s still almost zero actual information to go on. It's one of those situations where you spend an hour digging through the noise only to realize you're no closer to an answer than when you started.

I remember writing those posts about how Renault gets a free pass to "develop"—basically beef up—their engine, while everyone else is told Mercedes needs to do the exact opposite. I honestly can't tell if we're going to deal with this kind of nonsense every single year or if they'll finally actually fix the problem.
Look, you can give Newey whatever magic ingredients he wants, but at the end of the day, anything he designs is eventually going to fall apart.🤣

Honestly, if you just look at the end of that second sentence, it tells you everything you need to know about how things are actually going.🤷
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#223 ·
hollowhawk412 said:Forget about that guy

Anyway, TBF1 is... (well, whatever, his first one was better anyway)😁

I don't know if he's calmed down yet😁

That's why you were hiding for days😁

Waiting for me to disappear, but nope, I'm back😬

Maybe it’s actually best if Red Bull just stuffs an Opel diesel into their car🤣

If nothing else, we can be 100% sure the spark plugs won't screw them over😬 🤣
Jason Campbell70 Jason Campbell70 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2017
#224 ·
hollowhawk412 said:it concerns the RS27 engine 😉

hollowhawk412, I suspect you'd agree with this statement too:

"If Red Bull had Mercedes or Ferrari engines this year, they would have a massive advantage over everyone else."

Just as I predicted, the RS27 is the weakest link in the Red Bull-Vettel package this season.
Arthur Roberts12 Arthur Roberts12 Member
47 messages
joined Mar 2010
#225 ·
Jason Campbell70 said:Which would certainly explain why they bother putting air intakes in front of the driver (specifically positioned just left of the knee width).

And the expectations:
Pole Position - Michael the magnificent
Victory - Michael the magnificent
Fastest Lap - Michael the magnificent.

☕

Your expectations were way too high there; next time, try setting the bar somewhere within the realm of possibility.😉

Arthur Roberts12 said:Fernando Alonso, Felipe Massa, Kobayashi

Hispania will definitely be dead last.

☕
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#226 ·
Arthur Roberts12 said:expectations were way too high here. Next time, try setting something actually realistic.😉

☕

Give him a little grief 😬
Let him suffer. He just got here and he's still nursing wounds from the last race.🤣

But don't go expecting much anyway.😉

Fernando Alonso leaving Australia with zero points.😁
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#227 ·
Jason Campbell70 said:hollowhawk412, I suspect you’ll find yourself nodding along with what I’m about to assert here

"If Red Bull were running Mercedes or Ferrari engines this year, they would be sitting in a massive lead over everyone else."

Just as I predicted, the RS27 is proving to be the weakest link in the Red Bull-Vettel package this season.


It’s certainly possible... though I intend to keep a very close eye on how Renault and Mercedes perform in the upcoming races...
But you really have to admit that Vettel's V7 held its own against Rosberg's V8 quite well enough

Then again, if that's the case, the reason why is blindingly obvious to everyone😉

However, I am not going to sit here and drone on about reliability issues...

Adrian Newey is always a bit of a gambler when it comes to pushing the envelope, and perhaps this time he’s taking even more extreme risks to compensate for that horsepower deficit🙂
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#228 ·
stormybadger8 said:so you spent days hiding out, didn't you? 😁

you were just waiting for me to disappear, but lo and behold, I am back. 😬

honestly, it might actually be better for Red Bull if they just slapped an Opel diesel engine into their car. 🤣

if nothing else, I'm 100% certain the spark plugs wouldn't give them any more trouble then. 😬 🤣


I honestly think Renault should just cut ties with Red Bull. 😂

It is just one endless stream of whining from them... 😁...
maybe they even made some backroom deal to let Red Bull play the scapegoat, all just so they can sweet-talk the FIA into letting them tinker with the rules a little bit. 😁
mistybear87 mistybear87 Regular
406 messages
joined Nov 2010
#229 ·
hollowhawk412 said:Oh, please...I was busy hiding from some husband coming home from Afghanistan
having survived unexpectedly😉

I really think Renault should just ditch Red Bull😂

It's just constant complaining😁...
Or maybe they struck a deal to let Red Bull act as their lightning rod, just so they could convince the FIA to give them a little extra leeway under the hood?😁

Given what's being reported in the news today, that isn't exactly a funny joke...
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#230 ·
mistybear87 said:given what's being reported in the news today, it isn't exactly funny...

well, go ahead and delete it then...

by some stroke of luck, I haven't actually looked at the newspapers or scrolled through any news sites at all today...
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#231 ·
Since I don't see anything particularly interesting going on in this thread... why don't you go ahead and enlighten me, please?
mistybear87 mistybear87 Regular
406 messages
joined Nov 2010
#232 ·
hollowhawk412 said:I don't really see anything particularly interesting here... could you enlighten me, please?
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#233 ·
mistybear87 said:

And this lecturer... just embarrassing.

It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with my little joke, I suppose... 🤷

but anyway, here we go

I'll just delete it...
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#234 ·
You really ought to read this through carefully

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6...s-to-Red-Bull-

I am speaking specifically to TBF1, Jason Campbell70, and Arthur Doyle70

It is my firm belief that absolutely no meaningful adjustments were made to the car this year, and quite frankly, the analysis that surfaced at the end of the season remains the most accurate assessment of the situation we've faced.
Maria Nelson2 Maria Nelson2 Active Member
154 messages
joined Nov 2007
#235 ·
The whole comparison was really between Renault and Mercedes......☕
Even at Ferrari, they’ve basically admitted the engine is pretty thirsty, and on top of that, the car's design is causing overheating issues... which is why there's all this chatter about a potential B-spec car being needed...☕
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#236 ·
Arthur Doyle70 said:The comparison was actually between Renault and Mercedes......☕
Even over at Ferrari, they’ve basically admitted themselves that their engine is quite "thirsty," and on top of that, the car's design is causing overheating issues... which explains why there's all this chatter about a potential 'B spec' car...☕

😁

According to BBC pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz, Williams technical chief Sam Michael has confirmed that Renault, who supply Red Bull with their engines, have the most fuel-efficient unit on the grid, 'followed by Mercedes and Cosworth, with Ferrari the thirstiest'.

I honestly thought you knew how to speak English 🙂
Maria Nelson2 Maria Nelson2 Active Member
154 messages
joined Nov 2007
#237 ·
hollowhawk412 said:😁

CNN pit-lane reporter Adam Schefter reports that Williams technical chief Sam Michael has confirmed that Renault, who supply Red Bull with their engines, have the most fuel-efficient unit on the grid, 'followed by Mercedes and Cosworth, with Ferrari the thirstiest'.

I thought you actually knew how to speak English 🙂

Of course they’re the most efficient when the engine dies before it even gets a chance to burn through its tank 😬. Jokes aside, fuel consumption is just one part of the story regarding an engine's performance profile; sure, they might be stingier with fuel than the others, but the fact that they lag slightly behind Mercedes—and maybe even Ferrari—isn't some conspiracy theory, it's just what pretty much everyone following Formula 1 on the blogs and forums agrees on. It isn't even a stretch that Allen wrote on his blog that if that Mercedes engine were sitting in a Red Bull, the championship would probably be decided by a single team alone...🤷
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#238 ·
Arthur Doyle70 said:Of course it’s most fuel-efficient when it isn't even moving, so it doesn't actually burn through anything 😬 , but jokes aside, that's just one of those specific traits that define this engine and its overall performance profile; while it's true they are more conservative with fuel consumption than the competition, the fact that they lag slightly behind Mercedes and potentially Ferrari in pure performance isn't some myth, it's an reality that almost every Formula 1 follower on the blogs and forums agrees upon.... It isn't nonsense that Allen wrote on his blog that if the Mercedes engine were in the Red Bull, the championship would likely be decided within a single team....🤷

I'm not disputing that... I just don't understand what the reasoning was to allow engine upgrades in the first place, especially considering there weren't any glaring reliability issues to begin with... 🤷

Personally, that engine freeze rule gets under my skin more than any other regulation out there.

By the way... I've realized that Flavio Briatore has been handing out quite a few pink slips over the last few years... specifically targeting aerodynamicists and engineers from Viry where the engine is developed.

Then yesterday came the news that Renault has essentially loaned money to the Formula 1 team, and if they don't pay it back, they could end up taking control of the Formula 1 outfit again...

And let's not forget that McLaren is busy buying up stock packages from Mercedes

And perhaps we'll see even more manufacturers making a comeback by 2013...

I have this gut feeling that Formula 1 won't truly feel like the glory days again until 2013.😁
silvercobra68 silvercobra68 Active Member
61 messages
joined Feb 2010
#239 ·
hollowhawk412 said:Read this carefully

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6...s-to-Red-Bull-

Specifically directed at stormybadger8, Pilatus, and Arthur Doyle70

I suspect no major upgrades were actually implemented this year, making that end-of-season analysis spot on.

Well, look at that—Renault has been given approval to make upgrades. This is going to be a mess, and it definitely plays right into the hands of the link provided here.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82246
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#240 ·
hollowhawk412 said:😁

According to CNN pit-lane reporter Adam Schefter, Williams technical chief Sam Michael Williams technical chief Michael confirmed that Renault, who supply Red Bull with their engines, currently run the most fuel-efficient unit on the grid, "followed by Mercedes and Ford, with Ferrari the thirstiest."

I thought you knew English. 🙂

🤣 It’s funny how the guy from Williams always seems to be the expert on fuel consumption and all that technical stuff. I mean, the man basically drives two Formula 1 cars to work every day.🤣
He clocks in at Red Bull in the morning, then heads home to Ferrari by the afternoon. 😂

Look, don't get me wrong—the guy might actually be right, and he’s probably a decent enough human being. But honestly? To my ears, it just sounds like a whole lot of nonsense, pretty much like what we hear from our own guys here.🤣

silvercobra68 said:Well, there you have it. Renault just got the green light to make changes, so expect absolute chaos. This is definitely going to play right into the hands of the guy behind the wheel.

fetla http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82246

Autosport just broke the news: Renault has been cleared to roll out a "massive" batch of engine upgrades. Apparently, they're doing it all in the name of cost-cutting and better reliability. Even though... The FIA just shut the door on any kind of power equalization for this season. Case closed..

What, is this supposed to be some kind of miracle? Like the spark plugs just aren't going to misfire anymore? Give me a break. 🤷

Unless they seriously step up the power, we’re looking at a massive deficit—and I mean a huge one. Besides, who actually believes Renault just suddenly cooked up something new? As if they'd start having more engine failures out of nowhere now. 😬

By the way, when it comes to fuel consumption, it’d only make sense if the thing with the least power was also the most efficient. 🤷

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