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2010 Bahrain Grand Prix

Started by Ryan Gomez4 · · 👁 21 views · 241 replies

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Participants Ryan Gomez4stormybadger8Jessica Torres63slybison8Keith Rodriguez27Jose Ward11Thomas Morales13hollowhawk412Bradley Nelson2Matthew Wilson50Jeffrey Hill5Christian Williams61Olivia Taylor2silentbear49wanderingbison9Chris Chase5silversurfer45Arthur Roberts12Mark Ruiz8Michael Lee4Thomas Martin4mistybear87amberseal23rustystag7 …
wiredtiger8 wiredtiger8 Active Member
81 messages
joined Jul 2019
#201 ·
Felipe Massa is a total enigma... it’s pretty obvious he just doesn't have that "killer" instinct baked into his DNA.
Look, Massa didn't even have a bad start—Alonso was just playing a massive bluff because he probably knew Massa would be too soft to push back.
But... I mean, after all these long years at Ferrari, Massa still holds some kind of status there.
And most importantly, Massa is a bit of a "teacher's pet"... he's going to try this whole "autosuggestion" thing now, focusing himself on the idea that he can't let Alonso slip by that easily again... even if Michael Schumacher whispers in his ear "don't be an idiot, shut him out next time or Alonso is going to eat you alive for the rest of the season" (and that isn't just drama, it's a very real possibility, considering how good they actually are)
My money is on the fact that the very next time Massa and Alonso face off like this, it's inevitably going to lead to a racing incident between two Ferraris.
Amanda Kelly Amanda Kelly Regular
360 messages
joined Mar 2008
#202 ·
wiredtiger8 said:Massa is definitely an enigma... clearly he just doesn't have that killer instinct built in.
Look, Massa didn't even have a bad start, and Alonso was basically bluffing because he probably knew Massa would fold under pressure.
But... after all these years at Ferrari, Massa still holds some kind of status.
And most importantly, Massa is a bit of a nerd... he'll probably try some "autosuggestion" trick to focus on not letting Alonso slip past so easily next time... even if Michael Schumacher whispers in his ear "don't be an idiot, block him next time or Alonso will eat you alive later in the season" (and that's not a joke, it's a very real possibility given how good they actually are)
My bet? The next time Massa and Alonso face off like this, it’s inevitably going to end in a collision between the two Ferraris.

wiredtiger8, you really shouldn't have gone there.
For a long time, Ferrari has been looking for two drivers whose names start with the same letter as the team itself. And now we finally have it: Felipe, Fernando, Ferrari. See? It's a setup destined for success. 🙏

So please, don't ruin the perfect harmony within the team with these kinds of insinuations.
stormyviper11 stormyviper11 Active Member
81 messages
joined Nov 2007
#203 ·
Roger Wright94 said:wiredtiger8, you really shouldn't have gone there.
Ferrari spent forever looking for two drivers whose names start with the same letter as the team itself. And now we finally have it—Felipe, Fernando, Ferrari. See, that’s basically a setup for success right there. 🙏

So please, don't go ruining the perfect harmony in the garage with these kinds of insinuations.

I wasn't thinking about it like that, but honestly, hearing about those three F's in NASCAR still makes me think of that legendary Alfa Romeo squad back in 1950: Guiseppe Farina, Juan Manuel Fangio, and Luigi Fagioli. To be real, I'm actually hoping Ferrari's season turns out a little less dominant than that one was for Alfa... 😁
Morgan Miller Morgan Miller Newcomer
6 messages
joined Apr 2009
#204 ·
It really should have been Red Bull Day..........
wiredtiger8 wiredtiger8 Active Member
81 messages
joined Jul 2019
#205 ·
@Roger Wright94/">@@Roger Wright94...thinking about a Ferrari where everything actually works perfectly? That’s not reality—it's pure fantasy and total fiction.

Personally, I much prefer imagining the "dirty" side of things... and I'm not just talking about NASCAR. 😁
Ryan Gomez4 Ryan Gomez4 Active MemberOP
112 messages
joined Feb 2013
#206 ·
silvercobra68 said:Sergio Pérez has a disadvantage. He’s too tall. No tall driver has ever really nailed it in NASCAR—not because they lack skill, but because teams build cars for the average driver, which is about 5'7". These taller guys just struggle. That was the issue with Wurz too. He was lightning fast; just look at his performance at Indianapolis Motor Speedway back in '97. But he was in a car designed for Gerhard Berger, who was also on the taller side. Then came '98 and especially '99, and everything fell apart once his teammate was a tiny little Italian guy, Lewis Hamilton, standing only about 5'3". That's the catch. Same goes for DC.

Robert Kubica is a whole different story. He’s also pretty tall, but honestly, he's overrated. 2008 was just a flash in the pan, not a true indicator of what he can do. Besides, he only won because Lewis Hamilton slammed into Finland during the pit lane stop.

In my book, Kubica will be remembered for Indianapolis 2007, not 2008. We've seen what he can do, and from here on out, it's all downhill.


Vitaly Petrov is tall just like Robert Kubica. We used to joke that the Renault engineers wouldn't have any trouble designing a car that fits two totally different body types. So, does that mean he’s doomed to fail too? 😢
Joshua Newman2 Joshua Newman2 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jul 2009
#207 ·
Kimberly White63 said:Even Vitaly Petrov is tall, just like Robert Kubica. We used to joke that Renault's engineers wouldn't have any trouble configuring the car for two drivers of such different sizes. So, you're telling me he won't be able to manage either way? 😢

I assume they ran into similar issues at BMW a couple of years back; Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld were quite different in stature, which likely meant the cockpit design had to be a compromise (or maybe Nick was just sitting on a cushion 😁). This year, Renault knew Robert would be their primary star, so I imagine they tailored the interior specifically to him. Since it turns out Petrov is also on the taller side, it seems like a win-win for everyone involved.
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#208 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:I’m fairly certain that was the exact headache BMW dealt with over the last couple of seasons; Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld have such vastly different physical builds that they likely had to settle on a compromised cockpit setup—or perhaps Nick was just sitting on a cushion 😁. This year at Renault, they clearly went into things knowing Robert Kubica would be their primary star, so I assume they tailored the interior specifically to his dimensions, and when it turned out Vitaly Petrov was also quite tall, it worked out perfectly for everyone involved.

Mark Webber is also quite tall... much like those two...
Morgan Murphy7 Morgan Murphy7 Active Member
132 messages
joined Jan 2006
#209 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:Since Robert Kubica is the main star, I assume they tailored the cockpit interior specifically for him. When it turned out Vitaly Petrov was also quite tall, it ended up being a win-win for everyone involved.

But which one of them is actually taller? 😁
Joshua Newman2 Joshua Newman2 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jul 2009
#210 ·
hollowhawk412 said:Mark Webber is also tall... pretty similar to those two...

True enough. But why bring up Webber?

I brought up Robert Kubica because he’s about 20 cm taller than Nick Heidfeld, so I assume that played a role in how BMW decided to size their cockpits.

Webber is 9 cm taller than Sebastian Vettel, which isn't nothing, but it's certainly not the massive discrepancy we saw with the BMW duo.

@Morgan Murphy7

According to the official stats, Vitaly Petrov is 2 cm taller, but you know Americans—they're a proud bunch. They’ll likely claim they're taller just to edge out the competition, even if they're actually the exact same height. 😁
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#211 ·
Joshua Newman2 said:That’s true enough. But why on earth bring up Mark Webber?

I brought up Robert Kubica because he stands about 8 inches taller than Nick Heidfeld, so I’m assuming that had to influence how the folks over at BMW approached their cockpit dimensions.

Now, Webber is a good 3.5 inches taller than Sebastian Vettel, which isn't nothing, but it certainly doesn't present the same kind of headache they faced with those two at BMW.

@Morgan Murphy7

According to the official stats, Vitaly Petrov is technically 2 centimeters taller, but you know how Americans can be—they've got a certain pride about themselves, so they probably just lie to look taller than the Polish driver when they’re actually the exact same height. 😁

Forget all that nonsense,

Where on earth is TBF1... (man, I swear his first one was much better...) 😁

I have no idea if he's finally calmed down yet.😁
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#212 ·
I’ve got some exclusive intel coming from James Allen, and honestly, I have a little something for Pilatus too.
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#213 ·
and we really need to talk about that RS27 engine 😉
Morgan Murphy7 Morgan Murphy7 Active Member
132 messages
joined Jan 2006
#214 ·
hollowhawk412 said:specifically regarding the RS27 engine 😉

Well, don't hold back—just give me your honest take right now.😁
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#215 ·
Morgan Murphy7 said:Come on, just spit it out already—tell me everything you know right this second. 😁

I suppose you have a point there...

I’ve been spending quite a bit of time scouring the various international forums lately, and I have to say, if you know where to look, there is some truly incredible stuff out there. You can actually find genuine insiders sharing their perspectives, along with some remarkably high-quality links that you just don't stumble upon on the mainstream sites.

The primary point remains the most important one.

Sebastian Vettel suffered a spark plug failure, or rather, the thing just gave up on him entirely. It’s exactly what happens when you don't have a gritty American mechanic working in a greasy garage to keep those plugs clean and running smooth. 😁

That’s not even the main point.

The competition has finally managed to close the gap on Renault's fuel efficiency, which essentially means they were given enough breathing room to tinker under the hood a bit more than we might have liked.

The third point is essentially where everything falls apart.

It looks like Renault isn't just closing the gap to the rest of the pack when it comes to raw power; they might actually be pulling ahead of them entirely. It seems clear now that they’ve been working behind the scenes, pulling all the right strings to get where they are.

The fourth point is where we truly arrive at the crux of the matter.

Given everything we’ve looked at so far, between my own previous breakdown and all the arguments that have been thrown around in this thread, I’ll be the first to admit that we don't possess a mountain of absolute, ironclad evidence, but even without that, there is still an overwhelming amount of information that allows us to draw some very clear-cut conclusions.

And that’s just how it is.

It is fundamentally impossible to claim that a Renault engine is unreliable when you consider its pedigree; we are talking about the very same power unit that allowed Fernando Alonso to finally dethrone Michael Schumacher back during the 2006 season. In those days, Renault possessed arguably the most bulletproof engine on the grid, maintaining an incredibly consistent streak of reliability over a massive stretch of time, especially considering we were operating in an era before those restrictive RPM limits were even a factor. 🙂

And another thing... I've been sitting here thinking about it, and I’m increasingly convinced that Renault has absolutely dialed up the engine power.

This year's Mercedes... isn't that basically just the same Bruno Senna GP they were running last year?

Of course it is...
And now we come to this... that particular car was quite frankly one of the most aerodynamically efficient machines ever to grace the track.
Honestly, he’s just better than Renault... and I mean significantly better. It’s frankly unrealistic to expect that Renault would have even begun to close the gap at the start of the season.

And then there's this whole ridiculous situation where Bruno Senna is driving a GP or a Mercedes using Mercedes engines, acting as if they possess some inherent superiority over Renault's power units. It’s just nonsense, really.

Look, it’s pretty obvious if you actually bother to look at the data that Mercedes ought to be leaving Renault in the dust, because they simply hold the upper hand in both critical departments—specifically when you factor in their aerodynamic efficiency versus the engine output.

When that moment actually happened... though I suspect most people completely missed the significance of it, mostly because Vitaly Petrov and Robert Kubica were having such an incredibly unlucky run of things at the time.

Robert Kubica was pulling off stints that were practically identical to those of Nico Rosberg and Michael Schumacher...

How on earth is that even possible?

If you ask me, the relentless pressure coming from both Red Bull and Renault finally paid off, forcing the hand of the regulators to let them equalize the engines, because honestly, it just wouldn't have been fair to let those other teams start messing around with their setups before this was settled.
I can't help but wonder what would have happened if they had actually gone through with banning Renault. It’s one of those "what if" scenarios that keeps me up at night, honestly. If the regulators had stepped in and shut them down entirely, the whole landscape of NASCAR would look fundamentally different today, and we'd likely be staring at a completely different hierarchy of power on the track.
Maria Nelson2 Maria Nelson2 Active Member
154 messages
joined Nov 2007
#216 ·
So why is it that James Allen, more than half of The Paddock, the Red Bull crew, the drivers, and everyone else... they all keep insisting that Mercedes actually has the superior engine...🤷 , I’m not saying Renault isn't up there, but from what I can gather (even with Adrian Newey pulling the strings), Renault seems to stumble every once in a while...😉
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#217 ·
Arthur Doyle70 said:If that's the case, why on earth are James Allen, more than half the Paddock, Red Bull, the drivers, and everyone else claiming that Mercedes actually has the superior engine...🤷 I am certainly not suggesting that Renault is inferior, but based on my observations—and granted, we are talking about Adrian Newey here—it seems to me that Renault tends to falter quite unexpectedly at times...😉

I mean, when they are out there buying spark plugs in Detroit 😁

How exactly does Fetlo manage to make those engines sing? 🤷

Red Bull is applying pressure to allow engine modifications for Renault too.
Perhaps their persistence is finally starting to pay off.
They are simply demanding that they be granted the same right to make adjustments.

Recently, Adrian Newey went out of his way to publicly accuse Mercedes of continuing to develop their engine during the freeze, despite having absolutely no reliability issues to speak of...
As far as I can recall, they haven't faced any reliability setbacks that would ever justify such modifications.

So, how do you explain the fact that Robert Kubica was perfectly matched against Mercedes when it came to lap times?
Michael Lee4 Michael Lee4 Regular
421 messages
joined Oct 2009
#218 ·
hollowhawk412 said:So how do you explain the fact that Robert Kubica was basically on par with Mercedes when it came to lap times?

Lap times aren't just about the engine...
Maria Nelson2 Maria Nelson2 Active Member
154 messages
joined Nov 2007
#219 ·
My colleague basically said it all......😉

Anyway, Renault is allowed to make adjustments... and if I recall correctly, they actually did 🤷, while Mercedes was supposed to "reign in" that "more advanced" engine....
I mean, the entire Paddock is buzzing about how Mercedes currently has the top engine.. I just don't get it, it's like everyone is clueless and doesn't understand a thing🤷 Even Ferrari ran into overheating issues during the race, leading them to tell Mass to dial back the intensity, and all this is happening alongside the engine changes...
It feels like every single year you're rehashing this idea that Renault will beef up their engine to keep pace with Mercedes, but isn't that just a roundabout way of admitting which engine is actually superior?😉

Adrian Newey, with his design work (and some help from Kimijev), has probably burned through more engines than he, Vettel, and Webber will go through combined over their whole careers🤣🤣

By the way....what was up with all that smoke coming off Webber's car? Did they install a smoke machine so the driver behind wouldn't see where he was going?😬
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#220 ·
Michael Lee4 said:A lap time isn't just about what's under the hood...

It seems you might have skimmed over my initial post where I pointed out how unlikely it actually was for Renault to have overtaken Mercedes (formerly Brawn GP) when it comes to aerodynamic efficiency...

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