Directing and filming a movie

So, here’s the situation. I’m thinking about trying my hand at directing an interesting documentary project. The real hurdle, though, is that I’m missing the rest of the crew—you know, a cinematographer, an editor—and I don't have any of the gear myself.

Can anyone suggest some amateur film crews or perhaps a specific camera that would be suitable for this kind of work?
I’m aware that most footage can be polished up using Adobe software to make the image look decent, so I don't necessarily need an incredibly expensive camera right out of the gate. I just haven't decided which one to buy.
Is it worth picking up a used camera—say, one that originally cost around $1,200 but is now going for about $600? Or should I steer clear of used equipment altogether?
I really think this could turn into something quite fascinating, and I see it as a creative outlet. I’ve reached out to a few guys who own equipment, but honestly, they seem to have these built-in biases against women stepping behind the lens; they aren't willing to lend out their gear or even get involved.

(It seems easier for them to just sit at home playing pretend about being "real men" than to actually do something exciting and engaging, even if it means working with a woman. So, naturally, I'm back to focusing on myself and realizing I can only truly rely on my own efforts to get things done.)

Should I try finding a crew through Craigslist and offer them a fee, or maybe just rent a high-end professional camera for a few days while we shoot? What’s the best move here? Of course, it would be much easier to have a guy acting as my cinematographer, especially since people don't always react well to women taking on "male-dominated" roles like documentary filmmaking.

Where would I find a cameraman? Should I look through students at an Academy or somewhere else? I wouldn't have any trouble paying a cinematographer a daily rate $67 to get the job done. Would that be enough money?

It really all hinges on the underlying concept... if you are comfortable being your own cinematographer and capturing audio with a budget microphone, then it is certainly doable. At its core, this is a documentary, and the documentary format is incredibly forgiving of those kinds of choices, provided the vision is there. It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve.
If you find yourself needing a dedicated camera operator, I would suggest reaching out to the local Film Academy, or I could certainly pass along a recommendation from one of my colleagues in the industry. Pricing will fluctuate based on the daily rate and whether equipment is included in the package, among other factors. Ultimately, everything depends on your specific goals and the nature of the film itself. Best of luck!

In principle, I would suggest looking into the courses offered at the Alamo Drafthouse. It was an exceptional program back when I was in high school, and it truly remains a staple because they attract such a diverse crowd of people from all walks of life and various age groups 🙂
The crux of the matter is that, from a practical standpoint, most people lack any real understanding of the craft—nor do they grasp the theoretical side, which is vital since theory and practice are so deeply intertwined in filmmaking. At a place like that, you can dive into specific segments like editing, cinematography, and screenwriting; I really think you should join them. You’ll eventually be able to check out equipment, and more importantly, you'll build a network of peers
Don't let the technology intimidate you, as everything has become incredibly user-friendly these days
Once you wrap your head around the underlying logic of the software and the fundamental workflow of the editing process, mastering Adobe Premiere on a PC or Final Cut Pro on a Mac becomes quite straightforward—and a course like this will help you grasp those concepts very quickly 😉

What exactly is the documentary covering?

Richard Peterson10 said:So, what's this documentary actually about?

Honestly, I'm also super curious—what's the actual premise of this documentary?

Ethan Howard45 said:...just go to KKZ...

You took the words right out of my mouth.👍

cosmiclynx57 said:I'm also curious—what is this documentary actually going to be about?

Hey everyone. Look, obviously I’m not going to spill my entire concept for the documentary just yet, but I promise you, it’s going to be something truly original. I honestly don't know if anything quite like it has been filmed here in the States or anywhere else in the world. Why would I share the details? Well, because all it takes is one person with a camera and enough motivation to just go out and shoot it themselves. We all know how people are these days; they wouldn't lift a finger to help, but they’d jump at the chance to steal an idea...🤷

I'm not saying you all are out to steal it, but anyone could read this thread and...

And besides, no one is going to lend me their gear anyway (not that I’m expecting it), so why should I give away my ideas? What do I really gain from that?😕

For now, my plan is to find a cinematographer who already owns their own equipment and just pay them a daily rate. Film students always need the extra cash, and I doubt they're looking for some massive Hollywood paycheck. $100I think they’d be pretty happy with a fair day's wage...

Does anyone know if there's a specific film forum or something similar where I could post a job listing for a cameraman? Or should I just head down to the local Academy? I'll probably end up doing the latter.

Rebecca Campbell81 said:I'm not saying you guys are all going to go out and steal it, but anyone reading this thread might get inspired to...

Steal an idea for a documentary—in America??? 😕

Sorry, I think my brain is actually starting to boil...

🙂

I’m not going to engage with this generalized bashing of men, but I can tell you that I’ve worked with female directors plenty of times, and I’ve never once met anyone who had an issue with the director being a woman.
In most news crews, the journalist and producer are women while the cinematographer is a man, and there isn't any drama or disrespect involved.
What exactly did you ask those guys who own the gear?
If you approached them with the same attitude you're using here, I wouldn't be surprised if they turned you down... well, you know how it goes.

1. You don't make a documentary based on a vague "idea." You need a full breakdown of everything. You have to know exactly when, how, and where to shoot specific moments. If you need something that isn't there, you have to find a way to set the scene or evoke it on camera.
You need to visualize exactly what the shots will look like before you even start filming, rather than just having a concept.

2. A movie isn't made by a camera alone. Just like a pen doesn't write a novel by itself.

3. When you're looking for a cinematographer with equipment for $100 per day, you have to actually interest them in your project to get them to agree to work. So far, you haven't done that; instead, you've just been acting arrogant and entitled.
The whole point of sharing your ideas is to fascinate people so they actually want to collaborate with you—to lend you their expertise and gear, even if you aren't paying much more than just covering basic expenses.
And keep in mind, there are enough crazy enthusiasts out there who are willing to invest their time, knowledge, and gear—and sometimes even their own cash—and convince their friends to join in, provided the project is genuinely compelling.

4. Even if you were an expert in cinematography, sound, editing, narration, and directing... (which clearly isn't the case here), you'll never pull this off entirely on your own.

Bottom line, I’d suggest you take Ethan Howard45's advice. Taking a course will help you learn the ropes and introduce you to people who might actually want to work with you to create something interesting, rather than treating this like some little hobby.

brightdriver75 said:I’m not going to engage with this sudden outburst against men, but I can tell you that I’ve worked with female directors quite often, and I’ve never met anyone who had an issue with the director being a woman.
In most news crews, the journalist and producer are women, while the cameraman is a man, and there’s no friction or disparagement happening there.
What exactly did you ask those men who own equipment?
If you approached them the same way you’ve acted here, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sent you packing... well, you know where.

1. You don't make a documentary based solely on an idea. You need a full breakdown of everything. You have to know when, how, and where to shoot specific things. If you need something that isn't there, you have to find a way to stage it or evoke it.
You need to visualize how it will look before you even start filming, rather than just having a vague concept.

2. A movie isn't shot by a camera alone. It’s just like a pen doesn't write a novel by itself.

3. To get a cinematographer to lend you their gear for $100 a day, you have to deeply interest them in your project so they actually agree to do it. So far, you haven't done that; instead, you’ve just come off as haughty and arrogant.
The point is, you share your ideas with people so that the idea itself fascinates them—so they want to work with you and provide their gear and expertise, even if it’s not for three hundred bucks, but just to cover basic expenses.
And mind you, there are some crazy enough people who, besides providing their time, skill, and gear, are willing to invest actual cash from their own pockets and convince friends to join in if they truly believe in the project.

4. Even if you know everything about cinematography, sound, editing, narration, and directing... (which clearly isn't the case here), you will never succeed at doing it all entirely by yourself.

Generally speaking, I would recommend you listen to Ethan Howard45. Taking a course will help you learn the ropes, and it'll also introduce you to people who might actually be willing to work with you—or, as you put it, help you create something "interesting" that you view as mere entertainment.

Thank you so much for your toxic, degrading rambling about how I can't achieve anything on my own, and how because of my "arrogance," no one will help me, so I’m destined to fail.
Honestly, I was hoping to be spared from these kinds of idiotic comments and such a malicious, repulsive tone. Clearly, I wasn't so lucky. Why am I "arrogant"? Because I don't want to reveal my creative vision to a bunch of random strangers on an internet forum? Is that what arrogance is? Go look up the word in a dictionary; you might find that it can mean being reserved or private, not necessarily stuck-up. Who do you think you are, demanding I hand over my ideas to you? And what gives you the right to play fortune teller and tell me whether I’ll succeed or not? I’ve lived enough years and I know myself well enough to know better than some idiot like you whether I can pull something off. I’ve waited a long time for this, and I won't let some poisonous chatterbox ruin my plans.

Besides—I hate to burst your bubble, but I found a camera. For a documentary, I can either handle the camera myself or find a friend or girlfriend who will happily help out without me having to pay them a dime. But the idea of groveling to fools like you, begging them to hold a camera for a measly three hundred dollars—which isn't even enough for them—is pure idiocy. In a struggling economy like ours, I’ve never heard of such nonsense. And I certainly haven't heard of any cinematographer getting paid a fortune, especially not a student who’d be thrilled just to get some experience working on a film, which are rare enough as it is. Yet, you seem to think everything works through begging and kissing up to people. No. Some people have enough intelligence to decide for themselves if a project is worth their time. Though, I certainly wouldn't expect that from someone like you.

It’s highly likely you’re just projecting your own failures onto me since you don't know the first thing about my life.

But honestly, thank God I actually have enough sense to have figured out my entire plan over the last few days on my own. I really don't need any unsolicited advice from bitter, frustrated people—SO THIS THREAD CAN OFFICIALLY BE CLOSED. There’s nothing left here but people trying to get under my skin, and frankly, I'm tired of dealing with all the losers who just want to lash out at others because they're miserable themselves.

Rebecca Campbell81 said:Thanks for your toxic, degrading rambling about how I can't succeed on my own, and how because of my supposed arrogance, no one will help me, so I’m doomed to fail.
Well, I was certainly hoping to be spared from such idiotic comments and this incredibly malicious, repulsive tone. Clearly, I was mistaken. Am I "arrogant"? Is it arrogance to refuse to share my proprietary ideas with some random crowd on an American internet forum? If you actually bothered to look up the definition of the word, you might find that being private or reserved isn't the same thing as being arrogant. Who do you think you are to demand my ideas, and by what right do you play fortune teller to tell me whether I will succeed or not? I am far too old and know myself too well to rely on the opinion of an idiot like you regarding my own capabilities. I have waited a long time for this, and I won't let some poisonous chatterbox ruin my plans.

Furthermore—and I don't want to spoil anyone's mood—I managed to find a camera. For a documentary, I can either operate it myself or find a friend who would be happy to help out for free. The idea of groveling before fools like you, begging someone to hold a camera for a measly fifty bucks—which wouldn't even cover their gas money—is pure idiocy. I've never heard of such a ridiculous concept in this country, especially during an economic downturn. And I certainly haven't heard of any cinematographer getting a massive salary, let alone a student who is just thrilled to get experience on a film set, which aren't exactly common occurrences here anyway. But you are clearly dim enough to believe everything relies on begging and kissing up to people. No. Some individuals possess enough intelligence to judge for themselves if a project is worth their time. Though, I certainly don't expect that from someone of your caliber.

It is highly probable that you are simply a miserable failure yourself, projecting your own inadequacy onto me despite the fact that you don't know the first thing about who I am.

Fortunately, I have enough sense to have figured out the logistics of this entire project over the last few days on my own. I have no need for the moronic advice of bitter, frustrated individuals—SO THIS THREAD CAN BE CLOSED. There is nothing to be gained here but irritation, given the sheer number of malicious, desperate bottom-feeders using me as a punching bag for their own frustrations.

Early morning rant. It feels good to vent like this at 7:12 AM.

Third time's the charm; just go to KKZ
ffs 🙂

Rebecca Campbell81, what’s with the attitude and the constant attacking? I don't get it.

A guy gives you an honest, mostly REALISTIC take on the whole situation, and your response is to call him an idiot?
Honestly, what is your problem? No one here was even attacking you, yet you’re acting like the entire world—or maybe just men—is out to get you.

Get this through your head: the film scene here in America is a total mess, especially the indie stuff.
If you don't have connections to make this project cheaper, you're basically on your own, and doing things solo is insanely expensive.
We aren't some Hollywood powerhouse where indie production is easy; we live where we live.
When people ask for details, of course they're interested. Sure, you have the right to stay quiet, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. Being defensive like this just shuts the door on any help you might actually need.

Alright, I apologize for anything I said earlier.

I truly hope you end up making an incredible documentary.

brightdriver75 said:Fine. My apologies for having an opinion in the first place.

I sincerely hope your documentary turns out to be a success.

Perhaps she’s filming a documentary about irascible women dealing with PMS, and her post was merely a subtle hint.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

But really, why would a woman even bother explaining the premise of a documentary? Ideas get stolen all the time, right here in America too. Of course, that assumes the ideas are actually original to begin with. The real issue is that it is incredibly difficult to bring any concept to life anyway; if you don't actually produce it, how would anyone even know you lifted the idea in the first place?

Speaking of intellectual theft, in the States, we tend to see more recycling of successful concepts from overseas, which people often pass off as being "original." It stems from a certain kind of insecurity, a lack of true self-identity. We aren't trying to be New York or emulate some old-world imperial style... but that is a much broader conversation for another day. There is an excellent play performing at the Lincoln Center on this very subject titled "Victims of Topography 2."

Rebecca Campbell81 @
Our film students have been quite prolific over the last few years. $100 It is perfectly fine if you are looking for sheer volume, or if you manage to recruit someone truly talented to join your project. As I have maintained before, everything hinges entirely on the strength of the concept.
However, I must insist: please refrain from using the phrase "someone to hold the camera"!! It sounds incredibly ignorant. A cinematographer—or more precisely, a Director of Photography—is the most vital creative partner to a director. In fact, I would argue they are often more crucial than the screenwriter, particularly during the production phase, rather than just being "someone who holds a camera."
No, I am not a cinematographer myself, but I certainly understand that side of the industry. In our domestic scene, a great DP can save many a director from total embarrassment; conversely, there are times when cinematographers are so dominant that they completely overshadow the directors, which ultimately harms the film's overarching vision (and I won't list recent examples from American cinema right now)

You are welcome to email me, and I can provide a few phone numbers for cinematographers who have experience in documentaries and such. Additionally, I highly recommend checking in with KKZ if you want to get a better sense of the "big picture." There you go! 😉

Rebecca Campbell81 said:...

🤦

Look, I mean this in the most well-intentioned and sincere way possible: buddy, you might want to pivot your focus toward the topic of just watching some actually decent documentaries (maybe check out an Errol Morris documentary series like "The 50 Greatest Documentaries") or finally picking up a few books (think "Documentary in the Digital Age", "Film Directing Fundamentals", "Three Documentary Filmmakers: Errol Morris, Ross McElwee, Jean Rouch", "Understanding Digital Cinema", "Grammar of the Shot, Second Edition", "Directing: Film Techniques and Aesthetics", or even "Idea: The Path to Great Directing
").
And if you really want my personal recommendation—just between us—you could always start with "Filmmaking for Dummies" or "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Movies, Flicks, and Films". p.s. let me know if an Oscar
happens to fall from the sky in the meantime.
😬

Christian Taylor3@ hmmm... I can certainly understand why those single takes threw you off your rhythm, but I wouldn't go so far as to discourage those who are just starting out... after all, why shouldn't they be out there working? Especially in the realm of documentaries...? Once again, I would suggest looking into an academy for some hands-on experience, and as for the literature mentioned by Christian Taylor3, it certainly won't hurt to dive into it... I truly believe everything hinges on the concept at hand. If you are making a personal documentary where you simply document a process, then it is quite straightforward... however, if you are aiming for something akin to the work of Errol Morris (whom I highly recommend watching), where an immense amount of research, archival footage, interviewees, locations, and masterfully directed re-enactments are required—for instance, "Mr. Death" utilizes 8mm film to achieve a sense of authenticity, which means one must possess significant knowledge regarding both that specific process and that era—then the challenge is much greater.
I also highly recommend "Man on Wire." It is a film that is ostensibly about nothing, yet you find yourself watching with absolute focus because the core idea—which is actually quite banal, involving a man in the 70s deciding to walk a wire between two Twin Towers—is developed into what is essentially a detective story and a celebration of the joy of living... to my mind, the direction is magnificent, much like the work of Errol Morris... though that represents one specific style of documentary, whereas other types are entirely different. What I am trying to say is that everything depends on the underlying concept... best regards!

Rebecca Campbell81 said:Look, everyone. It goes without saying that I won’t be sharing my specific concept for filming a documentary, but I can assure you it will be something truly original. I am honestly unsure if anything quite like it has ever been captured here in the States or anywhere else in the world. Why would I reveal such things? In an era where people often lack initiative yet possess a keen eye for lifting ideas from others, why risk it? 🤷

I am not suggesting that you specifically will be the ones doing the stealing, but anyone can read this thread and...

Of course, no one is going to lend me their camera—not that I would expect them to—so why should I expose my creative vision to anyone at all? What exactly is the benefit in doing so? 😕

For the time being, my plan is to find a cinematographer who already owns their own equipment and simply pay them a daily rate. Students are always looking for ways to make ends meet, and I doubt they would demand astronomical sums for a day's work. $100 I suspect they would be quite satisfied...

Does anyone happen to know if there is a dedicated film forum or some other platform where I could post an advertisement for a cinematographer? Or should I perhaps head straight to a local film academy? I imagine the latter might be the more practical route.

One more thing to consider: people will actually help you far more than you might anticipate! I have often found myself surprised by the generosity of others, especially when you manage to connect with the right people. You ought to view your cinematographer as your primary creative partner rather than merely a "hired gun" brought in to execute a task. Listen to them; just as with any creative collaborator, they have the potential to elevate your film to an entirely new level. Naturally, one must remain discerning with all advice received: you must first know what you want, then ask yourself how you want to achieve it, and finally evaluate the creative input of others. After all, isn't that one of the fundamental responsibilities of a director/auteur? Best of luck!

Ethan Howard45 said:One more thing: people will step up to help you way more than you’d expect. I’ve been surprised myself more than a few times. Especially when you find the right crew. Try looking at your cinematographer as your main creative partner rather than just some "hired gun" who shows up to clock in and out. Listen to them—just like any other creative collaborator—because they can actually take your film to a whole different level. Of course, you have to filter everything they say: you need to know what you want first, then figure out how you want to get there, and finally evaluate the creative input from others. Honestly, being able to do that is part of the job description for a director. Cheers!

That’s exactly what I was trying to get at, and I feel bad that she took my comment as a dig at her inability to do things on her own.

I apologize again for jumping into a conversation where I clearly didn't belong.