Naked at the doctor's office

Chloe Gomez6 said:It’s almost as if there are specific categories of people you can use for practice. And what would those exact categories be? Which patients are fair game for learning on, and which ones aren't?😕.

There are really just two types of people here:
1. People who don't mind, so they agree to it
2. People who do mind, for whatever reason, so they refuse

Why does it bother some while others don't care? Because we aren't all cut from the same cloth. Some are shy, some are fearful, some have their own private reasons. Those reasons don't even have to be rational... since most people aren't rational anyway. That doesn't give doctors the right to treat them like mere statistics or objects instead of human beings.

Sam Castillo7 said:How on earth are they supposed to gain any practical experience if they don't have patient contact and can't learn from actual cases?🙄 If this bothers you so much, perhaps seek out a hospital that doesn't partner with medical schools, or simply opt for a private practice.

The last time I visited an internist, he brought along several medical students because the case was particularly fascinating 😁 and began questioning them. They seemed to manage somehow, though it felt more like educated guessing; personally, I knew the answers to about 80% of their questions. I asked if I could jump in.😂 Ultimately, because those students were present, the doctor actually gave a brief lecture, explaining everything in detail and testing them again, which meant everything was perfectly clear to me without me needing to ask a single thing.🙏 My takeaway is that it might actually be best to see a doctor when students are around, as there is far less ambiguity...😉

You make a fair point, but if someone is already uncomfortable, we shouldn't make the situation even more stressful for them.😉 I have an appointment with an internist coming up soon, so please let me know which doctors tend to bring students so I can try to avoid them.😁

I don't mind when ten people are watching my dentist examine my wisdom teeth—especially when they gather around the X-ray like they're witnessing a religious event—mostly because these future professionals are usually more nervous than the patient. However, there are certain examinations where I simply wouldn't permit observers, purely because having one person watch is enough when I'm already feeling overwhelmed...🙂

At the end of the day, it all boils down to consent—something we’ve discussed countless times before. They have to ask you first, and you have absolutely every right to say no. Period.
Personally, my decision would depend on the situation; I might agree in some cases and decline in others, depending not just on what kind of exam it is, but honestly, just how I'm feeling in the moment.
For instance, when I was asked to present my own neurological case study to a group of medical students (following my recent MS diagnosis), I gave a firm no. My reasoning? I was just in a foul mood and had zero desire to be seen or heard by anyone at all.

I recently found myself sitting in a urologist's office dealing with some incredibly annoying sebaceous gland inflammation on my scrotum. To make matters worse, the doctor decided the best course of action was a series of follow-up appointments to monitor the progress. I recall being near the end of this ordeal—perhaps during the third or fourth visit—lying there completely exposed on the exam table, waiting for the physician to enter. Suddenly, a group of about eight or ten nurses burst into the room, deep in a heated discussion regarding union negotiations. It was an utterly surreal scene: there I was, naked and vulnerable, while they stood surrounding me, debating labor unions and collective bargaining. Honestly, if it hadn't been for the discomfort, I might have considered offering a bit of visual assistance to brighten their day, but the pain made such a gesture impossible. I did contemplate it, truly, but any attempt at an erection would have pulled at the medical tape, which in turn would have yanked at my pubic hair and sent the whole painful process right back to square one. In the grand scheme of things, I suppose medical students need practical experience, and we must all contribute to the advancement of science; however, in my specific case, it felt like everyone was merely contributing to the union meeting.

Grace Rodriguez10 said:There are essentially two types of people here:
1. Those who don't mind and are fine with it.
2. Those who have their reasons for saying no.

Why does it bother some while others stay indifferent? Simple: we aren't all built the same. Some people are just shy, some are anxious, and others have their own unique hang-ups. These reasons don't even have to be logical—after all, humans aren't always rational creatures. That doesn't give doctors a pass to treat them like data points instead of actual people.

I respect personal boundaries, but the "they probably didn't teach me this in school" argument feels pretty hollow. That goes for anyone dealing with shyness or personal discomfort too.

Has anyone actually encountered students who truly impressed them with their insight or dedication? It seems like some folks on this board could use a little work on their own biases, acting as if students are nothing more than an inconvenience...

Chloe Gomez6 said:I get it if people have their own reasons, but saying "they probably didn't teach them this" just doesn't hold water.

I agree, but because some people are too embarrassed or too scared to speak up, doctors really should be the ones asking. And they don't always...

Sam Hall15 said:Has nobody here actually dealt with students who blew them away with their insight or professionalism? It seems like the people on this forum are the ones who need to check their own biases. You can't just assume students are nothing more than an inconvenience in the room...

Look, I don't have personal experience with this, but the idea of ten teenagers collectively staring at my cervix while some OBGYN lectures about cycle timing is anything but engaging. I'm sure there are people who wouldn't mind, but I will absolutely exercise my right to opt out. Calling that a "bias" is ridiculous. That's like calling someone an exhibitionist just because they aren't interested in exposing their private life to a crowd. 🤷

John Doe, Albus Dumbledore,
this isn't about being biased. This is about a sick person's fundamental right to privacy and the intimacy of a medical exam. It’s about the right to choose. It isn't about whether I or anyone else thinks students are just extra hands on deck; it's about the fact that I want—and have the right to—my own peace and quiet. Being ill is uncomfortable, sometimes even terrifying. I might be in pain, I might be scared, I might feel embarrassed, or maybe I just don't feel like dealing with anyone at all. In those moments, I don't want to be a guinea pig, and I don't want anyone else watching me, touching me, or questioning me. This is my body. I wouldn't let strangers touch my belongings, so why on earth would I let them touch my body?
You clearly seem to be speaking from the perspective of a student or perhaps a former student, which means you're looking at this through one lens, while I am looking at it through another.

I view it much like inviting someone over to my house only for them to show up with five uninvited guests, or sitting down at a booth in a Starbucks only to have people try to crowd onto my table, or having someone read the news over my shoulder on the subway, or someone standing behind me at work staring at my computer screen.
It's basically: hey people, stop invading my personal space without an invitation.

So, for the thousandth time: first, you ask. If I say yes, then it's fine. But I also have the right to say no, regardless of the reason, and I don't owe anyone an explanation for why.

And no, I don't need to reconsider my stance, because I am perfectly comfortable with where I stand. No matter what my opinion is, it doesn't change the reality that I have the right to refuse a student examination at any given moment. The second someone tries to strip away my rights as a patient to decline such an exam, that's when I'll start thinking about changing my mind—or changing the government.

Melissa James70, I'm with you on all counts 👍

I was just looking at my budget, and this month, $0.81 is going straight toward healthcare. For that kind of money, I expect a certain level of respect—and part of that means having a say in whether I want ten different people poking and prodding me instead of just one doctor.
If the advice is to go private if I want any actual privacy, then fine, just leave me an extra $0.81 a month to cover a private physician☕

My intention wasn't to question the importance of personal privacy or human dignity—heaven forbid. I was simply noting that people often generalize students as being overly anxious or unprepared, and I meant that those instances aren't necessarily the norm, unless they happened to encounter a particularly rough cohort. That said, I completely agree that having a doctor surrounded by ten observers while examining a patient is uncomfortable. Because of this, smaller groups are being formed; usually no more than four people, and even then, they are scheduled so that there are ideally only one or two people present per patient. It is a much better approach for a student to eventually conduct examinations independently once they have gained sufficient experience. Establishing that direct rapport makes the patient feel far more at ease through one-on-one interaction. This is actually the standard practice in the US and Canada, where university hospitals—which typically offer the highest quality care in the country—operate by having a student perform the initial exam before referring the case to the attending physician.

Honestly, screw all these gynecologists and their whole routine. As if dragging myself through those miserable exams wasn't enough, now I apparently need an audience too? Seriously? Those interns—or whatever they call themselves these days—should be learning their lessons on someone else's time, not using us as practice dummies. If it were up to me, I’d just tell them all to get lost and walk right out the door. ☕

And yeah, I’m with rapidlynx78 and Melissa James70 on this one..

Then don't complain when an inexperienced or incompetent doctor examines you, makes the process uncomfortable, and then just throws a diagnosis at you... because those are clearly the kind of doctors you prefer...

Oh, please, it’s not like a doctor's competence is determined by a handful of clinical observations they happened to catch a glimpse of (though I can just picture those med students, trying so hard to look serious while they study).
Why don't they just learn from each other's mistakes instead?
Besides, there are always those people who stay quiet and just act as the guinea pigs.

I can look at this from two different perspectives—as a patient and as a former student... Back when I was in school, it used to be really jarring when professors would just "drop in" on a room and expect us to observe without warning. It’s the same thing for me now as a patient; those massive rounds where every single doctor and intern swarms the room can be incredibly grating. Then again, I can't exactly complain too much, given my MS diagnosis and the fact that I’m practically a peer to some of them. What am I trying to say? It all comes down to communication between the physician and the patient. I agree that they need to learn from real-world cases, but obviously, that should only happen if the patient is okay with it. It also depends heavily on what you're dealing with... For instance, when I first got my MS diagnosis, I was in total shock. I didn't want to see or hear a soul that day. I turned off my phone so no one could call, and I told my family not to come by. Every now and then, a nurse would pop in to check on me, or my roommates from the hall would stop by... and everyone respected my space. So, if a medical student wants to come by and learn something from my experience? I'm open to it.

During my labor, I had at least ten different women hovering over me, most of them medical professionals from the prenatal classes. Some were holding my hand, others were massaging my back; one even managed to make me burst into tears. She asked if my husband was coming, but he was stuck on a business trip overseas when things started moving, and I was just sitting there hoping he’d make it... hormones are a hell of a thing, so I'm sobbing away, and the poor girl just tells me she needs to take a quick break... 🤣 Looking back, I almost found it endearing how they all tried to manage me—constantly whispering about whether they might let us out of the hospital early today. I suppose I was exactly like that during my pregnancy classes, too; I wouldn't have given a damn about the woman on the table suffering through contractions. Once the delivery actually kicked into gear, everyone lined up, and since my baby was still wrapped in the umbilical cord, there was this frantic scramble between the nurses and the doctors...
When they asked if the crowd was bothering me, I told them honestly: I wouldn't have cared if George W. Bush were handing out medals right in front of me—when you're in labor, the pain is absolute hell. Once my son finally arrived, I didn't give a single thought to any of them. The only people I felt like strangling were those who refused to give me an epidural, thinking, "Just do it now, because it's going to be over before you know it." An audience doesn't bother me... they really should learn some professional boundaries. Besides, I spent enough time pacing hospital hallways and playing "doctor" during my prenatal training to know that patients are usually much more nervous about the chaos than we are...

Sam Hall15 said:It’s actually a great way to handle things—once a medical student gains enough experience, letting them take the lead on patient rounds and initiating contact can really help build their confidence, and honestly, it often makes the patient feel more at ease too.

I actually had a similar experience at an eye clinic once when a student was tasked with my exam. She came right up to me, led me back to the exam room, and had me go through all the standard tests like reading the fine print on the chart. To be honest, the whole thing was totally redundant for me since my actual doctor had already finished everything, but it was clearly necessary for her training. And you know what? I didn't mind at all.

Sam Hall15 said:It’s actually a solid approach—once a student gets enough reps under their belt, letting them handle the initial patient exam and outreach can be great. Honestly, patients often feel way more at ease when they get that focused, one-on-one attention right off the bat. That’s pretty much how it works in the US and Canada—at those top-tier university hospitals that basically set the gold standard for care, you usually see a student first, who then briefs the attending physician on your case.

We see that happening here from time to time too—it’s perfectly normal.😉
So, just the other day I had two students drop by the clinic to see the doctor. They asked—with all the politeness in the world—if they could touch my arm. I was shirtless, obviously, just in a bra, since the doc was checking out some vascular mapping. And honestly? Of course they have to feel it. You can't exactly get a real sense of the texture just by staring at it; you actually have to use your hands. Now, if there were fifteen of them standing there in a line waiting for their turn to poke and prod, I probably wouldn't be feeling quite so comfortable—but let's be real, nobody’s lining up like that in an American doctor's office... so, yeah.

I think everyone’s experience is going to vary wildly—it really just comes down to a dozen different factors. I’ve spent a massive amount of time trekking through various hospitals, and honestly, I’ve seen just about everything under the sun. But even with all that, I haven't had a single bad run-in with anyone—whether it was students, interns, nursing trainees, or even high school vocational kids. Everyone I dealt with was polite, tactful, and genuinely trying their best to act like professionals.

Maybe my takes come across this way because my little sister went through nursing school—so I’ve basically had a front-row seat to all the hospital horror stories, clinical rotations, and endless drama. Not to mention how many times I served as her personal guinea pig for "practice." We're talking everything from learning how to change linens and wash patients in bed to various ways of repositioning people. It was a lot. And when she finally hauled a bunch of needles and syringes home and asked if she could practice drawing blood on me? Yeah, I had to shut that down immediately.😲 But hey, Mom said it was totally fine—she even offered to let me test it out on her first. 😁 And everything was going just fine. 🙂

electricbison3 said:Oh, please—as if a doctor’s actual competence depends on watching a handful of clinical rotations (and honestly, I can just picture those med students trying way too hard to look serious while they watch).
Why don't they just learn from each other?

Learn from each other how? What are they going to see? Some perfectly healthy young guy sitting in front of them.☕

There is absolutely zero chance I’d ever let an audience watch me during any kind of exam where I have to undress