Naked at the doctor's office

swiftbear86 said:I haven't actually seen a single concrete answer regarding who should be learning from this....
and if that's the case, then we should just close this thread....
all I see is people bickering....
Maybe I'm wrong... but what kind of questions or answers are expected here? What is our actual experience with this issue?? Is it just bashing medical institutions and everything else... or sharing positive experiences? A question for whoever started this thread....

I don't understand why such strange questions are being asked about what kind of response we expect.
Well, Melissa James70 already explained everything to you, based on my two comments delivered in the style of a "psychic Milan." Even "psychic Milan" himself would probably be embarrassed after such a quick and efficient diagnosis.

The reality is, this is about my own sexual perversions and fantasies. Since most people here have shared their own situations, I naturally took the opportunity to indulge myself a bit while I was away—specifically, by giving my penis a good masturbation. Given that the primary goal was masturbation and my own satisfaction through this method, I thank all the participants.

Sam Hall15 said:Has nobody here actually had an experience with students who totally blew them away with their approach or knowledge? It honestly feels like the people on this forum are the ones who need to work on their biases—thinking that students are just some kind of extra baggage rather than actual learners...

Well, I certainly have—though my experience was back at the School of Dentistry. To give you the backstory, I had one tooth with a nasty inflamed canal, and in another, there was actually a tiny instrument—a lentulo—that had broken off inside way back when my previous doctor was treating me!😠 doctor!

The doctor took one look and goes, "Honey, I don't know who did this to you, and things aren't looking great, but let's give an endodontic treatment a shot!"😍

So, because it was a large tooth and they basically had to drill halfway to China to reach the canal, the students were the ones doing the actual drilling, of course.
The first time, I sat in that chair for three and a half hours—honestly, I practically fused with the seat; I ended up getting cramps just from sitting still for so long. That young man was wonderful, though! Now, I wouldn't say I'm particularly terrified of dentists, but we actually had a great time joking around. He was even teasing me about whether I was worried about getting struck by lightning or something... stuff like that. Then, the doctor tried poking around the canal with those little files, and when he couldn't quite get it, he handed it right back to the student. And guess what? He managed to heal the infected canal perfectly, even if he couldn't fix the broken instrument part.

The next time around, I was stuck in the chair for four hours! This time it was a different guy, with five other students hovering nearby. Again, he was fantastic. While he was shaping the filling, he jokingly asked if he could take a picture of me with his phone. I told him, "Why not!"😍
We even joked about having him sign my tooth! We ended up chatting about exams and all that too.

It was truly great. If it weren't for those students, I think I would have actually merged with that dental chair! It sounds terrible, but I sat there for so long. I remember both times, when they finally told me I could get up, they actually had to help me out of the chair because I was completely numb and stiff.

So, yeah... seriously, thank goodness for students wherever they are!🎉

Arthur Wright3 said:I honestly don't get why people ask such weird questions when we all know what kind of answer is coming.
Well, lady Melissa James70 pretty much laid it all out for you, and she did it based on just two of my comments—it was like watching a psychic reading from Milan. Honestly, even a real fortune teller would be embarrassed by how fast and spot-on that diagnosis was.

The thing is, I'm talking about my own kinks and fantasies here. Since everyone else has been sharing their personal stuff, I figured I’d indulge myself a little too. While I was away, let's just say I had some very satisfying solo time. Since my main goal was just to enjoy some self-pleasure, I actually want to thank everyone here for helping me get there.

I have no idea who this "psychic Milan" guy is... and frankly, I don't care. As for you, I hope you enjoyed yourself and reached your goal... I just can't wrap my head around what exactly you were using to get off...😂

I was being sarcastic 🙄
And yeah, as far as I'm concerned, just lock the thread

🙄

Arthur Wright3 said:I was just being sarcastic. 🙄

I can tell you're being sarcastic...😉
I just wanted to point out that there are definitely people who believe even young doctors need to learn through real-world experience.
Good grief... even here in the States, you still run into people who abuse their positions of power.
You really ought to report stuff like that to the proper Chamber of Commerce...
It’s just like any other profession, really. No matter what field you're in, things tend to work out the same way.
I’m definitely one of those people who thinks a daily dose of Dr. Phil is plenty for anyone... though I guess I could probably make a few jokes about that topic too.
I guess this thread just isn't my cup of tea... 🙄
There are plenty of smarter folks out there where I could be sharing my thoughts instead...☕

And just how long does it take for you to lose your temper? You're acting exactly like swiftbear86 😛😁

Arthur Wright3 said:How much does it take for you to get worked up? You're acting just like swiftbear86 here... 😛😁

I'm not even mad. It’s just that I really don't enjoy threads where people are just tearing into each other, and this one felt like it was heading that way.
To be honest, I expected a different kind of conversation—not just an automatic attack on healthcare workers from the jump. 🤷👎
Maybe that's what makes me "sensitive," if that's what you want to call it. 😍

swiftbear86 said:I haven't actually seen a single direct answer regarding who specifically should be learning this way....

That’s strange, because most of us here have already pointed out that, OF COURSE, students can and should learn from patients. Provided they follow professional protocols, basic etiquette, and show genuine respect by asking the patient if they are comfortable with it first—in which case, most patients would likely say yes.

Just a quick observation regarding that step-by-step approach to patient care. In essence, that is how most things are handled, from performing exams on one another to suturing pig snouts or practicing injections on mannequins...
As for lung auscultation, I have never asked female patients to remove their bras because it simply isn't necessary, though occasionally heart sounds can be difficult to hear without doing so, but sometimes...

Look, everything is fine by me. Personally, I don't care if someone is wearing a bra or not—it’s whatever. I just used that as an example. I honestly don't get why some people feel the need to pick fights or be provocative; my posts are always reasoned and well-explained, and I won't back down unless someone actually gets under my skin. I believe I've made my point clear, so there's really no need to keep repeating myself. What bothers me are these extreme, polarized viewpoints. It’s either "doctors are perfect saints and flawless professionals while patients are just spoiled, narrow-minded Neanderthals who hate medical students," or it's "doctors are immoral, arrogant jerks who see patients as nothing more than a diagnosis or a slab of meat." The truth isn't found at either of those extremes. That is exactly why we have protocols in place, why questions are encouraged, and why patients have a voice to say "no" when they need to.

Melissa James70 said:That’s strange, because most of us here have already said that you absolutely can—and should—learn on patients. Following standard medical ethics and basic courtesy, you simply ask if they're comfortable with it. In those cases, most people are perfectly fine with it.

True, but most people go in assuming it will be:

1. done without even asking
2. involving far more than just one or two cases—likely at least ten
3. handled by a bunch of bored guys who are really just there to ogle women

Chloe Gomez6 said:Yeah, but most of them just went in assuming it would be:

1. totally effortless
2. more than just a couple of people—we're talking at least ten
3. just a bunch of thirsty guys looking for any excuse to see some skin

That’s exactly it...

All in all... honestly, things would run most smoothly if we kept groups down to about four students (that’s basically how we operated back when I was studying in Miami). In my opinion, anyone who refuses to let a student or an intern perform an exam is just being a hypocrite. I mean, they’ll be the very first people complaining if someone turns out to be a subpar doctor or struggles to find a vein when an emergency injection is needed. Everyone needs to lead by example and make a little sacrifice—even if it involves more intimate exams—because if you refuse to help them now, you really have no right to demand that student treats you or your kids ten years down the line. They have to learn how to hit a vein somewhere; they have to learn how to place EKG electrodes because there isn't always a nurse standing right there; they even have to master the basic pelvic exam, because what happens if a pregnant woman goes into labor out on a remote island? He might be the only one there who actually knows what to do. Personally, I’d ask any patient refusing such an exam, "Who do you think is going to deliver your daughter in twenty years?" If people move through life thinking, "Oh, they won't practice on me, they can just learn from someone else who allows it," then you're just being a hypocrite. What happens if everyone adopts that mindset of "someone else will teach them"? It's simple: nobody would ever become a doctor. I still remember almost every single patient I examined as a student; I often think of certain anonymous individuals when a skill I learned from them helps me solve a problem on the job today. I have immense respect for all of them, because you just can't learn everything from a textbook alone. I remember once, when I was a patient in the hospital during my college years, I let a nurse I went to high school with try to draw blood three different times—I wouldn't let her give up until she finally got it. They also practiced moving a heavy, immobile patient (who was groggy from anesthesia and mostly bare under the sheets) from one bed to another using me as the subject. What did it cost me? Absolutely nothing. Just a tiny bruise on my arm that vanished in three days, and the wonderful satisfaction of knowing someone actually learned something useful.

I completely agree with this last point.

I’m right there with David on this one.
I'm currently in my sixth year of medical school.
Throughout my studies, I've seen it all—the good, the bad, and the ugly. Honestly, some patients have been so incredibly kind and trusting that I've actually found myself checking in on them during my off hours. None of us are here to cause you any trouble.
In my opinion, the biggest issue stems from a lack of basic professionalism among the staff—whether it's students, nurses, or doctors—which is something I personally find hard to stomach. A simple explanation or just saying "if you please" can work wonders.
It is absolutely your RIGHT to decline any exam or procedure, including when a student is involved.
My only request is that if you do find yourself in that position and decide you aren't comfortable with a student performing an exam, please at least handle it POLITELY.

Bryan Nelson70 said:I’m right there with David on this one...
I’m currently a sixth-year med student...
Throughout my time in school, I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. Honestly, some patients have been so incredibly kind and placed so much trust in us that I’ve actually gone out of my way to visit them during my own free time just because... People in our field aren't here to cause you trouble, believe me...
If you ask me, the absolute biggest issue stemming from all of this is just a straight-up lack of basic manners among the staff—whether it’s students, nurses, or doctors—which is something I personally can't stand... A simple explanation or just using words like "please" or "if you don't mind" really does wonders...
It is your absolute RIGHT as a patient to refuse any exam, procedure, or whatever else, including having a student present...
All I ask is that if you find yourself in that position and you aren't comfortable letting a student assist, at least handle it with some decency and be POLITE about it...

Totally agree... 👍

And like David mentioned, the people making the most noise about this are usually the first ones to scream the loudest when a doctor actually makes a mistake, even though they wouldn't have the slightest moral ground to stand on...

It honestly terrifies me how some people here view us, like medical students are somehow the bottom of the barrel or the biggest headache society has to deal with... Look, let's be real, medical students are all different, and yeah, not everyone is a saint, but the vast majority joined this path because they genuinely want to help people, and most of them were top-tier students in their high schools and colleges back home...

It shouldn't be this hard to just say, "Hey, I'm not really comfortable with a group of students watching me right now," especially in an awkward situation...
And don't even get me started on those "creepy" or "predatory" student stereotypes where people act like we're just sitting around waiting for a chance to see someone naked... 😉

wearybison35 said:It shouldn't be this hard to just apologize and mention that having a group of students watching you in a sensitive situation isn't ideal...

It really shouldn't be a struggle to ask a patient if they’re comfortable with students or trainees being present during an exam.
I honestly think half these debates wouldn't even exist if doctors actually stuck to basic common courtesy. The ones who follow the rules aren't even worth mentioning here. As for the students, they're just collateral damage caused by their mentors' lack of manners.

Grace Rodriguez10 said:it shouldn't be this much of a struggle to just ask a patient if they’re cool with students or interns tagging along for the exam, right?
i mean, honestly, half of these endless debates wouldn't even exist if every single doctor actually stuck to basic common decency. the ones who actually follow the rules aren't the ones causing drama here anyway, and the students are basically just collateral damage when their mentors act like total jerks.

I don't know, personally I've yet to run into someone who just barges in on a patient without asking and forces an exam on them... 🤷
If there really are people like that out there, then yeah, they deserve to get called out and have the whole thing shut down immediately...

What really gets me is those people who refuse to cooperate from the jump, regardless of how polite you are, just because they're thinking, "why the hell does this kid need to see me naked"...

I don't know. Maybe it’s worth looking into... but I wouldn't hold my breath. says:
I don't know... personally, I've never actually seen anyone just barge into a patient's room and force an exam on them without asking first... 🤷

I haven't experienced it personally, but I've seen people on here say the same thing. They'd show up for an appointment only to have a pack of medical students rush in for a checkup without the doctor ever actually bothering to speak to them... Some didn't even realize they had the right to say no until they were already facing a procedure they hadn't consented to...

wearybison35 said:If people like that exist, they deserve to be snapped at. Maybe they should just get turned away at the door entirely...

There are certainly people who deserve it, I agree... the real question is who’s actually going to examine the patient. And what kind of quality can you expect from an exam when it's being conducted by the very same doctor who was essentially blacklisted...

wearybison35 said:It just bugs me how some people shut down any kind of collaboration right from the jump. It doesn't even matter if you're being professional or decent... they just have this attitude of "why should I let some kid look at my business"...

You encounter all sorts of people. If you’re planning on being a doctor, you'll just have to get used to it... You have to respect their right to privacy during an exam, regardless of what they believe.

Look, it really all boils down to the patient's diagnosis. Some people just spiral into depression the second they hear what they're dealing with, and honestly, having ten different people hovering over them isn't what they need right now. It makes me wonder, though... how would those students and doctors actually feel if they were flipped into that exact situation? I've been on both sides of this, and I can definitely empathize with the patients just as much as the students.