Smoke dye recommendations?

I need information. Does anyone know where to source dyes capable of coloring smoke? I require organic dyes that won't ignite. Chemist stores don't carry them anymore. I checked online at BlackRock, but they refuse to sell.

If anyone can assist, I would appreciate it.

P.S. If someone could explain how to synthesize zinc chloride and where to buy the necessary ingredients, I’d be grateful. I’ve searched this forum, but I need more specific details.

Zachary Hall7 said:I’m looking for some info if anyone knows where I can pick up dyes that actually color smoke. Organic dyes won't burn, obviously. You can't find much of that stuff at the local chemical supply shops anymore. I checked online (BlackRock) but they aren't interested in selling to me.

Colored smoke isn't even really a combustion product. It’s more about evaporation and sublimation. Like, back in the day, people used glycerol for smoking, now everyone uses ethylene glycol. With smoke cartridges, you usually use lactose and then toss in the coloring agents.
I actually dug through my old notebook—I used to jot down all this useful stuff...

Training mines and smoke canisters for military use (old US Army recipes):

red:
potassium chlorate 23%
rhodamine red 23 %
lactose 23%
inert filler 23%
coal tar 8%

yellow:
potassium chlorate 29%
auramine 21%
lactose 23%
inert filler 18%
coal tar 9%

grey:
hexachloroethane 44%
zinc oxide 32%
calcium silicide 17%
rivil (for mixing) 7%

Note: do NOT light this mixture. You have to heat it until it starts smoking on its own. Don't just hit it with an open flame; you need to heat it, maybe in a test tube or something.

Also: instead of using inert filler as a phlegmatizer, you could try something else like sawdust, but you'll have to play around with the ratios to get it right.

One last thing: watch out for that yellow mix. It dissolves in water, and once that yellow stain hits something, it’s there for good. The smoke is the same way. One time in my neighborhood, the smoke turned the neighbors' laundry bright yellow while it was drying on their balcony. Aside from the smoke rising up like some weird cloud, those sheets stayed yellow forever. Not even Taylor Swift could fix them.

Appendix:
Auramine (yellow dye): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auramine_O
Rhodamine (red dye): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Red

Thanks for the help, but this isn't what I'm looking for. I need a colorant for something specific. I know there’s been endless talk about smoke bombs and KNO3, but I want to make a powder version—no cooking involved.

I read that you can make it using this method instead (this is how maritime signal flares are typically manufactured)

70% sulfur
20% zinc chloride (if anyone has info on the stuff I asked about earlier)
10% organic dye

Alternatively, it could be done this way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nR3xgNgbbs

POTASSIUM CHLORATE, BREWERS LACTOSE, BlackRock SMOKE DYE - 30 - 40 - 30 MIX... the problem is, I have no idea where to source these ingredients.

Zachary Hall7 said:POTASSIUM CHLORATE, BREWERS LACTOSE, BLACKROCK SMOKE DYE - A 30 - 40 - 30 MIX... I just don't have a clue where to track down these ingredients anymore.

Well, why don't you go hunt down some rhodamine and auramine? I used to keep a decent stash of them back in the day. Such a bummer I don't have any left, otherwise I'd hook you up with a little bit.

Are you suggesting I swap out the dye for rhodamine and auramine, or should I stick to your formula? My goal isn't just running an experiment; I need this stuff to actually burn when I hit it with a flame. It also can't be toxic. If you think I should follow your recipe, tell me where I can pick up some potassium chlorate, auramine, and rhodamine.

Zachary Hall7 said:Are you thinking I should use rhodamine and auramine instead of dye, or should I stick to your formula? I actually want this stuff to burn with an open flame because I need it for a specific purpose, not just as some little experiment. And it really shouldn't be toxic. If you think I should go with your recipe, could you tell me where I can pick up some potassium chlorate, auramine, and rhodamine?

I used to have some of those old military-grade mixes lying around, and they weren't meant to just burst into flames. You had to heat them up just to get them smoking. Usually, there’s a starter mix inside a smoke bomb that does that heavy lifting. If I remember correctly, in my own recipes, using bentonite as a calming agent along with potassium chlorate as the oxidizer and some tar resin creates exactly that effect. The color and the lactose are what actually make the mixture work, because I know for a fact that the smoke itself takes on whatever color the mix is—so, red, yellow, or white. Tar is black, and you'll find it right near the cap of the smoke bomb.
You might be able to find potassium chlorate at Hospitality under certain conditions. Honestly, though, they probably won't sell it to you since it's treated like an explosive. But hey, it's used to make matchsticks, so there's your hint. You could also try using perchlorate, which is what they use in kids' toy caps, but watch yourself with that stuff—it's pretty touchy.
Rhodamine and auramine aren't all that toxic; if they were, they wouldn't be used in military drills. I've inhaled plenty of that smoke myself and I turned out just fine.
As far as the auramine and rhodamine reds go, once you know the actual chemical names, it should be way easier to track down. Besides, rhodamine dyes are used in laser tech, so I doubt it's hard to find.

Otherwise, if you don't want to deal with the headache of heavy chemistry, you can get smoke the same way they do in tanks: just mix ammonia and hydrochloric acid. Just those two together. Hydrochloric acid is easy enough to grab, and if I'm not mistaken, you can find ammonia at any local pharmacy.

I'll give this a shot; it looks interesting. But it won't work for what I actually need. I need something without any lids or extra components—just a mixture you can ignite in any container to produce smoke. Does anyone know if any colors from Sherwin-Williams organic dyes might work?http://www.sherwin-williams.com/about-us

And seriously, nobody
has answered me yet... zinc chloride

Good grief... I mean, who says there's no color when you can just make it happen wherever you want?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-Rhodami...item20ce2ad60f

Or maybe this instead:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smoke-dye-st...item3cec8bac16

These two are GUARANTEED to work.

Anyway, why did the smoke from those old fuel inserts under the VA Hospital, VTMA, or ŠPROM codes always have that weirdly sweet scent? It’s honestly probably because of the milk sugar—you know, lactose.

LACTOSE = inflammation of the udders LOL

You really just need to do a quick Google search:

I mean, there's a whole bit of everything on there—potassium chlorate, for instance. 😉

So, the dyes used in smoke mixtures are basically just homogeneous blends of azo and anthraquinone dyes. They come in all sorts of shades and colors, usually working as a 50:50 mix of those azo dyes and various reactants. The whole reaction happens at a pretty low temperature—just enough to melt the dye so the hot gases can basically "push" it out, which is what actually colors the smoke!

SO, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A DYE WITH THESE SPECIFIC CHARACTERISTICS, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND SOMETHING SIMILAR (IF I REMEMBER RIGHT) DOWN AT A LOCAL HARDWARE STORE LIKE Home Depot WHERE THEY CARRY EARTH TONES. SOME SOURCES EVEN CLAIM THAT FABRIC DYES—THE KIND YOU CAN PICK UP AT ANY THANKS--YOU KNOW, ANYWHERE LIKE a CVS or a Walmart—match these specs perfectly.

🙂

Look, if you want to keep all your fingers attached, always use a plastic stick when mixing ANY kind of pyrotechnic mixture—never wood, and definitely never metal. Safety first, right? It’s not rocket science.

And obviously, it’s much smarter to mix everything by hand while it's still in powder form rather than trying to heat it up somehow. You never know when the whole thing might just decide to react all at once. That’s why it’s better to compress a powder mixture under a press, but since those aren't exactly cheap, you can bind it with a resin—like a wood finishing varnish or something similar. Just dissolve about 500g of varnish into 1L of denatured alcohol (adjust the amount if you need to) and stir until it’s completely dissolved. Let it sit for 24 hours, and then it's ready to go.

The term calming agent—basically something to slow down the detonation speed—pretty much explains itself. For a calming agent, we use diatomaceous earth (silica), which you can find labeled as "kieselguhr." It’s used in winemaking, has massive absorption powers, and is used for filtering water or drinks, or even protecting livestock from various parasites.
For sale:
http://shop.winemaking.com
Or look for "dust stop" at www.petco.com/.
It’s totally safe for humans!
Though, honestly, you could just use sawdust instead.

If you need to extinguish flames in a smoke mixture, you can actually just use regular face powder!

LACTOSE FOR SALE:

http://www.allbeer.com/item.php?id=83

KNO3 FOR SALE:

http://www.chemistry-supplies.blogspot.com/

When you’re putting a mixture into cardboard tubes, secure the top and bottom with some bentonite—the stuff used in American wineries to clear out sediment—or maybe just bentonite or some other clay-based nonsense that won't burn and hardens quickly.

Just a heads up: the dyes for smoke mixtures (specifically Auramine Yellow and Rhodamine) are incredibly messy and will stain absolutely everything they touch. You seriously need rubber gloves when handling them. And for heaven's sake, do this outside, because the stains are a nightmare to wash off. I once spilled some Rhodamine powder from a tiny plastic coffee spoon and it stained my entire bathroom sink.🙂

Use your head!

Angela Robinson6 said:Good grief... I mean, who cares about color when you can just go wherever the hell you want?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-Rhodami...item20ce2ad60f

or maybe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smoke-dye-st...item3cec8bac16

these are GUARANTEED to work, seriously.

Look, maybe it wasn't even an issue five and a half years ago,😉

but hey, if you're aiming for a perfect five out of five on effort, this is it.👍

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-Grams-Ye...item1c44b73007

Look, Makar, everything is negotiable if you've got the cash. 😉

The real question is... how do I actually get my hands on them?

Christian Lee7, you think a mineral or oxide powder would actually do the trick here? I'm talking about the stuff usually used for staining stucco or grout and all that.