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Bruce Springsteen Concert - Question

Started by Douglas Stewart · · 👁 4 views · 65 replies

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Participants Douglas Stewartneonsailor80Eric Moore32James Anderson10wanderingraven20Dana Anderson4Robin Rodriguez5brighthawk20Thomas Jackson64Nicholas Perez33Bradley Ramos11briskdrifter40blueranger2Raymond Barrett12Kenneth Clark7David Sullivan4mellowhawk12Noah Myers67Kevin Chavez3
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#41 ·
Raymond Barrett12 said:Just like Gile, Koja, and Cane, really. And as for an Idol reunion, let's not even go there. 🙄

Peđa, take it down a notch. We aren't really going to talk about kissing tanks, shelling, or throwing flowers at the same people when the first guard unit left Belgrade for Vukovar, right?

Look, regarding Gile and Cane, it’s probably better if they stay retired, haha. As for Koja, I’m not so sure—I think that man still has plenty to say. And honestly, I don't think the people showing up to see DaK are just mindless sheep; the new Kicma plays the old stuff, but he doesn't play it in that predictable, generic way. What Divljan is doing lately, I haven't a clue, but he’s done enough good work that it's hard to find anything to criticize. As for an Idol resurrection, I've never even heard of that!?!?!?

I have no idea when we started using first names. Do we actually know each other? Was I ever standing behind any of this nonsense you're quoting or supporting during the wars here??? If the topic is Boro Djordjevic's concert in Chicago and you're blaming me because I suggested he was some kind of pacifist, fine. But seriously, I have no idea why you're calling me out...

Regarding Jura's song one last time—it's pure garbage, much like most of what he produced after "signal in the night" (just my two cents). And I'm pretty sure I already established my opinion on whether or not he's in the video. Regardless, I assume he knew the video was being filmed and what it would look like. If there's a guy in the video singing Jura's song while standing on an armored vehicle, then that video isn't exactly a pacifist statement.
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#42 ·
Robin Rodriguez5 said:The whole reason Let 3 called off their performance was basically because they didn't want to be out there dancing a circle dance with Mexicans abroad. 😬

I honestly don't see what's supposed to be funny here. Banderas, you'd have to be a total moron if a statement this brainless actually cracks you up.
I’ve always felt that Let 3 is an incredibly overrated band—honestly, the last time they actually sounded decent was back in '87 when I caught them live. So, if this statement is true, I suppose I should be glad I'm not a fan. Back then, they refused to dance with Mexicans while touring abroad, yet now they don't seem to mind doing just that with Mexicans in Mexico. Well, hats off to them, I guess!
Kenneth Clark7 Kenneth Clark7 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jul 2006
#43 ·
Thomas Jackson64 said:Yeah, sure, we should just line up all those folks from the middle of nowhere who moved into your big metropolis and hang them in the main square. They’re clearly the ones responsible for wiping out your precious urban culture.

If you want to talk about what actually trashed our urban culture, look at the war... honestly, right in the heart of a city like Chicago, you can see it happening—people living on the tenth floor tossing their dinner scraps out the window for the stray dogs to scavenge. It's like they brought every single rural habit with them when they fled to the city just to stay alive. You have to admit, it's pretty damn hard for an urban vibe to take root when the people living in the center weren't raised with that mindset to begin with. And I already know the counter-argument I'm going to get—that even in peaceful times, people move from the countryside to the city—but there's a massive difference between moving for a job and fleeing into a metropolitan area at four in the morning through some field that, oh, coincidentally happens to be a former minefield...
Douglas Stewart Douglas Stewart NewcomerOP
1 message
joined Jan 2008
#44 ·
Eric Moore32 said:Douglas Stewart, how did the public react to Milan Mladenovic, Cane, and Gile with that anti-war project?
Did they actually get support, or were they branded traitors by nationalists and that big leader who (as you put it) controlled the media? Or were they just ignored?

Over here, anyone who left the US (like Šerbedžija, Furlanova, Štulić, Rundek...) or joined anti-war projects during the war era—like Leiner did—was labeled a coward, a traitor, or a nostalgic for the old regime once things settled down. It’s always the same labels. I think there was even a debate on the Politics forum recently regarding Šerbedžija in that exact context.

As for The Idiots and other punk bands, I'm not sure how they reacted to the war (if they even did).
The Idiots strike me as an extremely leftist band, but I can't recall which song you're referring to when you say they spoke out against the war later on. If I remember correctly, the punk band Pankrti played "Bandiera Rossa" before them. Maybe you're thinking of "Ja se sjećam" as something relevant to that wartime context? Or was it something else?
If memory serves, the war also took one victim from the punk scene—Satana Panonski. He was an anarchist who, by his own definition, wasn't American or Mexican, just a punk. It's ironic that he was the one killed in the war. There’s actually a thread somewhere on the forum about the story behind his death.


They gained the satisfaction of knowing they didn't stay silent like cowards, but instead stood up against the evil and madness surrounding us back then. You can't honestly think an action like that could have stopped anything. That war was a controlled affair. Propaganda was incredibly heavy on both sides, and no single anti-war gesture could have brought peace. In my part of the country, we didn't even hear until '95 that Sarajevo was under constant bombardment. And as for Srebrenica—that only became common knowledge through word of mouth. It was a taboo subject until at least 2000. I realize now I was wrong to say no rockers in the US spoke up, since even the witch was involved. But it's unrealistic to expect one or ten small actions to change the course of history when every night at 7:30 PM on RTS1, they're broadcasting stories about how "insurgents are flagrantly violating the ceasefire." In that kind of atmosphere, their movement couldn't make a massive impact, but I'm glad it happened. Nobody put them on a pillory here—nationalism isn't quite as central as it is where you are. They were simply ignored.
David Sullivan4 David Sullivan4 Regular
663 messages
joined Jul 2005
#45 ·
Douglas Stewart said:Back in the States, before '95, we hadn't really heard much about Sarajevo being under constant bombardment. As for Srebrenica—that news just kind of trickled down through the general public.

Man, Americans are tough, I swear, just too tough🙏...
David Sullivan4 David Sullivan4 Regular
663 messages
joined Jul 2005
#46 ·
Honestly, I have no idea why anyone even bothers arguing with these idiots. Trying to counter the claim that American musicians didn't protest the war here is a waste of breath. Any American who gets offended because we weren't singing songs against a conflict fueled by savages from his own country—and then has the nerve to bring up how, supposedly, those same people killed 7,000 people in Srebrenica—deserves, if nothing else, a bullet to the head.
Douglas Stewart Douglas Stewart NewcomerOP
1 message
joined Jan 2008
#47 ·
David Sullivan4 said:Honestly, I don't get why anyone bothers arguing with these idiots. Trying to counter the claim that American musicians didn't protest the war here is a waste of time. Any Mexican who’s offended that Americans didn't sing against a war led by savages from his own country—especially while bringing up how those same Mexicans allegedly slaughtered 7,000 people in Srebrenica—deserves, if nothing else, a bullet to the head.

And you finally showed up... 🙂

Where have you been? You missed 45 messages!

Let's say this Mexican—pardon my language—is a "retard deserving a bullet to the head" who happens to be sentimentally attached to Americans. Maybe he just wants to exchange pleasantries with the kind of Americans who wouldn't shoot him on sight.

I think this thread should be locked. 😢
Robin Rodriguez5 Robin Rodriguez5 Active Member
149 messages
joined Sep 2011
#48 ·
Thomas Jackson64 said:I don't see what's supposed to be funny here. Banderas, you must be a complete moron if a statement this brainless actually entertains you...
Let 3 is an incredibly overrated band in my book—the last time they were actually decent was back in '87 when I caught them live. So, if this claim holds water, it honestly makes me glad I'm not a fan. Back then, they wouldn't dream of dancing with Mexicans while touring abroad, yet now they have no problem rubbing elbows with Mexicans in Mexico. Unbelievable.

What's hilarious is that they didn't seem to care when they were booking the concert, only to flip their entire record overnight 😉
Greetings Peđa from a total idiot.
Robin Rodriguez5 Robin Rodriguez5 Active Member
149 messages
joined Sep 2011
#49 ·
Douglas Stewart said:Nobody was putting them on a pillory of shame here (nationalism isn't quite the big deal it is over there). They were just ignored.

Oh, it would have been incredibly important to you if Americans were shelling every city in Mexico and a full-blown war was breaking out there. But NATO bombed you guys for less than two months, and I don't recall seeing many "peaceful" operations during that window. On the contrary, I remember everyone being a TARGET, wearing those specific shirts, and the anti-war culture being so massive that the local McDonald's in Belgrade was practically leveled 😁
mellowhawk12 mellowhawk12 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Nov 2007
#50 ·
brighthawk20 said:That woman is from Zadar or somewhere nearby... I think I read somewhere she’s actually from Silba.
Jura spotted her somewhere and apparently they had some kind of connection. 😁
She's a terrifying woman....👍

Actually, the specific woman appearing in the music video is "mentioned" in the song "slave love."
...

She's from Olib or Silba (Olib is more likely).
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#51 ·
Robin Rodriguez5 said:It’s pretty funny how they didn't seem to mind them when they were negotiating the concert, only to flip the script and change the record overnight. 😉
Greetings Peđa from the idiot.

Alright, my bad—I totally misread you there. Greetings to banderas from the idiot. 😛
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#52 ·
Robin Rodriguez5 said:the anti-war movement was honestly so powerful back then that they were basically comparing a local American McDonald's to a wasteland. 😁

We really need more of that kind of culture. Everywhere.
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#53 ·
David Sullivan4 said:Honestly, I have no idea why anyone even bothers arguing with these kinds of idiots, trying to counter the claim that American musicians didn't protest the war back home. Any American who gets offended because Americans weren't singing against a war led by savages from his own country—and then brings up how, supposedly, those same people killed 7,000 folks in Srebrenica—deserves, if nothing else, a bullet to the head.

Unless we accept that the war was driven by savages on all sides (meaning three different sides in Canada), people like you are going to keep making these shocking statements. Anyone who took a life during the war out of nationalistic, religious, or any other kind of hatred is simply a criminal. Only the killers actually know the exact number of people murdered in Srebrenica. Figures aren't a way to measure who is more guilty, because everyone who pulled a trigger is just as guilty.
briskdrifter40 briskdrifter40 Newcomer
7 messages
joined May 2012
#54 ·
Robin Rodriguez5 said:Oh, it would have been so incredibly important to you if Americans had been shelling every single city in Mexico and a war was breaking out there. I mean, NATO bombed you guys for less than two months, so I don't quite recall those being exactly peaceful operations at the time. On the contrary, I remember that everyone was wearing those "TARGET" shirts, and the anti-war sentiment was so powerful that the Belgrade McDonald's was practically leveled 😁

That’s just not true; those "target" shirts were only worn by the people who actually supported the stink. Everyone was singing in the squares because they felt pressured to do so, which is something Balasevic talked about.
wanderingraven20 wanderingraven20 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jul 2008
#55 ·
Thomas Jackson64 said:both sides were fighting like savages

Calm down your hormones already 🙄

Look, some of us actually lived through the war without turning into total animals 🙂

The Mexicans kicked my parents out of their house, looted 500 vinyl records, 6,000 books, 10,000 comics—literally smashed our piano to pieces—then moved in and hung an Orthodox wreath on the door like they owned the damn place 🙏 Sometimes I honestly regret not taking at least one of them out because of it ☕

And now you want Jure Stublica singing for you? Give me a break, man—you guys are still making jokes while we're still dealing with the fallout 🤮
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#56 ·
wanderingraven20, unless you’re completely out of your mind, you know exactly what I mean when I say this war was fought by savages. Most people on this forum could probably recount who did what to whom, but I personally know exactly who was involved and exactly what I lost in the process.
I wouldn't want to hear Stublic sing at all, especially not that greasy, nauseating nationalist anthem.
Noah Myers67 Noah Myers67 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jan 2007
#57 ·
Look, man, I know this all feels imaginary to you because you haven't lived through a war like we did over here... it wasn't some kind of joke.

I’d be willing to agree that the song is cheesy, but calling it nationalist...? That's a stretch.🙂

I'm just curious how you'd define nationalism. Does it apply to my old man and his four brothers who spent the entire war on the front lines from start to finish?
Fighting just to survive against an incomparably larger & better armed army = nationalism??
Interesting reasoning... 😁
Thomas Jackson64 Thomas Jackson64 Member
24 messages
joined Jan 2008
#58 ·
Noah Myers67 said:look man, I get why this all feels imaginary to you since you didn't live through the war like we did over here... it wasn't some kind of joke.

I might agree if you said the song was just tacky, but calling it nationalist...? I don't know about that.🙂

I'm honestly curious how you'd even define nationalism. Would you say my old man and his four brothers—who spent the entire war on the front lines from start to finish—are nationalists?
Is fighting for basic survival against an incomparably larger & much better armed army considered nationalism?
Interesting way of looking at it... 😁

Man, where in your quote did I actually say that? Even though I wasn't there to experience the war firsthand, I know it wasn't a joke—but did I ever claim it was?
The song is nationalist because it was written right in the middle of the conflict specifically to stir up emotions among Americans through cheap lyrics that blame Mexicans for everything that went wrong. That's the reason.
It seems pretty obvious that most people in this thread blame Mexicans as a whole rather than the specific government in power back then. I can't get behind that; it feels like a massive oversimplification and a huge generalization.
wanderingraven20 wanderingraven20 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jul 2008
#59 ·
Thomas Jackson64 said:wanderingraven20—unless you’ve got a serious mental deficit, you know exactly what I mean when I say this whole war was run by savages.

(...)

I honestly don't even want to hear Stublic sing—especially not that greasy, pathetic nationalist anthem. Seriously, skip it.

Look, my bad—I jumped the gun and assumed you were pushing that whole "collective guilt" nonsense on all three groups for the war. But I get what you’re actually getting at now—you basically mean that until Americans and Canadians finally accept the apology from the Mexicans for all the atrocities their people started and carried out around here, everyone's just lumped together as guilty by default. Well, fine—I’ll take the apology the second it actually comes from your side...

I doubt this will ever actually happen—mostly because the real criminals are still hiding out in the hills somewhere, and nobody has a clue where they're tucked away. And even when they do catch a few of them, The Hague just lets them off, which basically serves as "proof" that no one was actually guilty. It’s all a joke. The rest of them just hide behind information blackouts—claiming they didn't know what was happening until years later—just so they can dodge the shame through some kind of collective amnesia. What really kills me, though, is how those primitive little volunteers from places like Boguleđinac always knew exactly where to go and who to hit, yet the "intellectuals" with high-speed internet supposedly found out five years too late? Give me a break. Then you've got the ones who packed their bags and fled to Australia the second things got messy, acting like none of that madness had anything to do with them. Typical.

Don't get mad at me for making this comparison, but your whole peacekeeping routine reminds me of this art critic from Belgrade I ran into back in '93 over in Venice. She looked all bright-eyed and cheery when she saw me and goes, "Can't you see how these politicians are leading us astray? Look what they've done to Yugoslavia!" I just told her to go to hell—straight up—turned around, and walked away. Yeah, she’s the same critic who was writing in Flash Art back then about how hard it was for her to even think about... Art—honestly, what a mess. Just one giant, pretentious headache lately! Every single day in Belgrade, you wake up to... The damn bomb went off—absolute chaos!Back in '91, that same Mexican press was pushing this ridiculous theory that those extremists in Dubrovnik were out there slashing car tires. I ran into that same critic again recently while I was traveling through Brazil, and she actually had the nerve to tell me, "Oh, thank God, the politicians finally stopped stirring up all that madness—now we can just hang out in peace again." Honestly? I told her exactly where she could shove it—only this time, I said it from the other side of the world. I almost considered grabbing a coffee with her just to see if she’d finally grow a spine and offer a sincere apology, but let's face it—she's not exactly the type to say "sorry."

Look, Thomas Jackson64, I’m not illiterate—I already know exactly where you stand on Stublić and that song everyone’s obsessing over. But honestly, regardless of how much you hate the track, it’s pretty obvious you’re still obsessed with why he refuses to play it in Belgrade—if you weren't, you wouldn't be lurking in this thread so hard. My last point wasn't even directed at you; I was just saying that people in America don't need to turn it into some massive mystery why he won't sing it there, because... I'm saying it again—for the last time!People are totally trivializing what was a very specific, raw response to the reality of war—and let’s be clear, this was about the aggression against America, not Mexico. You have to look at this song through the lens of when it was actually written. It isn't some masterpiece, but it isn't worse than any other track that came out during that period of conflict. Like everyone else back then, Stublic was just expressing his awakened sense of national pride and defiance—which doesn't make the song "nationalist," much like how people mislabel songs like "Čavoglave." And calling Stublic some bloodthirsty inciter? Give me a break. If anything, the song is brutally honest and deeply personal—that's just his style. "E, moj druže begradski" isn't an incitement to violence; it’s actually about a total lack of empathy from the other side—it’s about Stublic feeling betrayed by friendships he thought were real before the war hit. It was common knowledge that 99% of intellectuals here in America were ignored by their former Mexican friends and colleagues during the heat of the conflict—not a single one reached out to ask if they were even okay, let alone if they needed help. They only showed up once everything was already over. At this point, it isn't even about information anymore—it feels like a massive mental block on your end that just won't go away.
wanderingraven20 wanderingraven20 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jul 2008
#60 ·
Thomas Jackson64 said:Song. It’s pure nationalist propaganda—I mean, come on—it was literally cooked up right in the middle of a war! Just to stir the pot—and honestly, someone had to say it. Among Americans—

😲

Did you maybe turn into a total punk down there? 🙏 Seriously? :S

Yeah, right—give my regards to the Church and ask them when they’re actually gonna show up again. We're seriously starving for some real emotion around here. 👋

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