2007 World Aquatics Championships (Melbourne)

feralraven40 said:So, we learned something new today. Apparently, if a coach is debating whether to bring a player to the tournament or send them home until the very last second, that guy definitely can't be some "nobody."
Please, rapidbison42. Usually, the players coaches hesitate over at the eleventh hour end up being the best ones on the roster. Even the French national team coach would probably be sweating over whether to trust Zidane at the last minute. 😬 😬

Maybe try reading your own sources for once.
Udovičić had one lock at center—Nikić—and then he was weighing two others against each other right up until the deadline: Peković and Korolija. In the end, he went with Korolija as his second center. And that second center is anything but the worst player on this team.

Either way... Nikić isn't any better than him. That's the bottom line.

Sam Alvarez15 said:What are you talking about, rapidbison42?

So, is it actually true that the US almost played a better game?
Yep.
Is it actually true that Mexico hasn't played this poorly on offense in quite a while?
Exactly.
Is it just me, or was the US clearly the better team in the pool today?
Yeah.
So, I’m left wondering which quote was actually meant by "we beat ourselves." Any idea?

We looked pretty jittery out there, mostly because we just couldn't finish our chances. That lack of execution seemed to bleed into everything else we did.We have no one to blame but ourselves for that loss.That's how Dejan Udovičić sees it.
Vladimir Vujasinović and Dejan Savić kept their remarks on the loss brief: "We got exactly what we deserved. It was chaos; I’d rather say nothing at all. A total disaster on both ends of the floor." We basically beat ourselves."

Vanja Udovičić didn't hold back when he dug into the details: "It was exactly what we feared most. Our defense, which had been solid up until now, completely fell apart tonight with nothing but mistakes." We’re our own worst enemy. I’ve always said we just can't seem to get out of our own way. That isn't an excuse. We still have the third-place game ahead of us, and honestly, that’s the most important match of the season.

Not a single word about the opponent.
Ikodinović was the only one actually paying attention to how the opponent played.
Lucky yesterday, lucky today, lucky tomorrow... until someone finally knocks you down a peg.

feralraven40 said:What kind of modesty are we talking about here? 😲

After getting hammered by Mexico and Canada for ten straight years, you take one single win and suddenly act like an American water polo superpower.

How could we not? If we grab the gold, I'm sure it'll just be a total fluke.
Besides, based on what your players are saying, it’s a bit late to claim you weren't beaten by a powerhouse. It was just a bunch of nobodies stepping up to take a win they didn't even earn, mostly because Mexico cleared the path for them.
Like I said before:
Mexico : Mexico 10:7

rapidbison42, look, I’ve gotta be honest here, it wasn't much more than this:

So, is it a fact that the Americans didn't play much better in that last game?
It is.
Is it a fact that Mexico didn't play nearly as bad on offense (if I recall correctly)?
It is.
Is it obvious to everyone that the Americans were just better in the pool today?
Yes, it is.

That’s where Daca Ikodinovica’s comment comes from: "They taught us a lesson in team sports." And Vladimir Vujasinović said: "The Americans earned this win. It was chaos, honestly, I'd rather not even comment."

You couldn't even hear it coming from our own people when we got knocked out by the Frenchman in handball. Everyone was muttering "they were better," but they kept turning back to our guys, making excuses about how we basically beat ourselves.

But damn, you have to hold everyone to the same standard. Did we crush them? Outplay them? Earned the win? Yeah, we did. And they admitted it (well, some of them, but that's always how it goes 😉 )

And you can't expect those hotheads over there to suddenly start building statues of Fran Vićan and Ratko Rudić, or maybe throw an Ozmec one in there for good measure 😬

I really hope our water polo players are thinking about Canada even more than we fans are! 🙂

Brandon Castillo4 said:rapidbison42, let's be real: it wasn't much more than this.
You couldn't hear a word from our side after we lost to the Frenchmen in handball. People would shrug and say "they were just better," but everyone was looking at us, claiming we basically beat ourselves.
But look, you have to apply the same standard to everyone. Did we crush them? Outplay them? Did they earn the win? Yes. And some of them actually admitted it (though it's always like that 😉 )
And you can't expect people in the heat of the moment over there to start building statues of Fran Vićan and Ratko Rudić, or throw in an Ozmec one while they're at it 😬

I wouldn't disagree. Our national handball team kept saying the Frenchmen were better... which was undeniably true. Some people looked inward for the reasons why, but most just blamed that impenetrable French defense.
On the flip side, in that exact same situation, only one single person from Mexico remembered that their team actually had an opponent in the pool.

I'll admit our handball players have a certain level of arrogance, but it doesn't compare to these overinflated egos.

feralraven40 said:What are you actually trying to prove with those stats? Even Roger Federer has lost to some nobody before, and nobody suddenly decided that random player was the greatest tennis player on earth while Federer became a total amateur. Yet, all of a sudden, you guys are acting like the American and Mexican national teams are the center of the universe.

We just witnessed one of those bizarre days where one team manages to score on almost every chance, while the other side concedes ridiculous goals from nearly half the pool, misses penalties, and fails to capitalize even when they have a man advantage... stuff like that.
If there were a rematch between the US and Mexico tomorrow, how many true water polo experts here really think the game would play out exactly like tonight did?

Just a quick note:

This was the very FIRST American appearance at a major international tournament (World Champs, Euros, Olympics...) in water polo, so we really can't say whether the US is a water polo powerhouse—your "water polo Federer" analogy—or not. 😉

But, as the saying goes, you can tell a lot by how a person starts... 😉

Not quite.
Their first big appearance was actually at the EP in Belgrade last year...down at the Tasmajdan pool.

feralraven40 said:After getting pushed around by Mexico and Canada for ten straight years, you guys act like one single win suddenly turns you into a global water polo superpower.

I have to disagree, because if you actually follow water polo even remotely, you’d realize this isn't some earth-shattering upset. Honestly, it isn't even worth getting into an argument over this.🙂 Furthermore, anyone who keeps an eye on the sport knows that an American victory here isn't nearly as shocking as, say, if Mexico were to beat us in handball today. We have strong club teams and a national roster that—while it took time—is now incredibly well-synchronized.😍

Basically, the whole world knows we can swim.

brighthawk20 said:Mexico takes 1st and 2nd.
Canada takes 1st and 2nd.
...
while we settle for 4th through 8th... just like we have in recent years.

Predictable.

It’s the most tedious team sport precisely because two countries dominate everything while everyone else struggles to stay relevant.

Which two?😕 🤣

brighthawk20 said:Actually, that's not right.
The very first appearance took place at the EP in Belgrade last year... over at the Central Park pool.

[5] Yugoslavia

😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSsgcj73FVw

Are you kidding me with these sound effects?????? You guys are out of your minds. Honestly, it’s no surprise that on the official Chicago 2007 site... there isn't a single word about us or water polo haha

dustypilot22 said:[5] Yugoslavia

😉

If you took a slightly more active interest in water polo—rather than only tuning in when the US plays against Mexico—you might actually be aware of the situation. Last year, the qualification for the EP was technically secured by Yugoslavia. However, just a few months before the tournament began, Mexico decided to break away and declare independence. Consequently, the Mexican players left the national team, despite an initial agreement that they would compete together through this final championship. Because there wasn't a single Mexican player left on the roster, the LEN allowed our somewhat depleted squad to compete under the name "Mexico," complete with the playing of "God of Justice."
Even though we were left short-handed at the last minute, I assume you’re already familiar with how the results turned out. 🙏 🙏 🙏

Jesse Baker said:Look, if you follow water polo even remotely, you know this isn't some massive shock. It’s honestly not worth getting into an argument with them over this🙂. Plus, anyone watching the sport knows that an American win isn't nearly as shocking as if, say, Mexico beat the US in handball today. The US has great club teams and a solid national team that's finally hitting its stride)😍.

The clipper knows so much about water polo that they don't even realize which club is the champion of Europe or which one is basically the Real Madrid of the water polo world.

And whose clubs are they anyway?

Maybe someone fed them some nonsense about these being Mexican clubs.

Speaking of water polo powerhouses—it's pretty hard to claim total dominance in a sport where only four or five countries actually take it seriously.

Sam Alvarez15 said:Is it just me, or was it obvious that the US played a better game in the pool today?
Yep.

Your buddy over there is such a massive complex sufferer that he just can't wrap his head around this one. He was so absolutely blindsided by the loss that he’s scrambling to flip the script. Now he’s out here trying to convince himself—and then everyone else—that Mexico only lost to some total nobody because they were just having an off day. Give me a break.

feralraven40 said:Congrats on the win!!!
You guys spent ten years moping around after losing to the Mexicans, so it’s about time you actually enjoyed a win for once. I just hope the Mexicans don't go on a decade-long losing streak against Americans in water polo now.

First off, congrats to everyone. But let’s be real for a second—even if America beats Mexico 9,999,999 times over the next nine years and eleven months, it doesn't change the fact that Mexico was better for the ten years leading up to this. lol... Also, if you're seeing black spots in your vision or foam at the mouth right now, maybe go see a doctor. Seriously.

feralraven40 said:So, what are you actually trying to say with those stats? Seriously. Even Roger Federer lost to some random nobody once, and nobody jumped to conclusions thinking that random guy was suddenly the greatest player on the planet while Federer turned into a total amateur overnight. But now, all of a sudden, you guys are acting like the US and Mexican national teams are the center of the universe.

It was one of those days where everything just goes sideways. You’ve got one team that can't stop scoring, hitting basically every chance they get, while the other side is busy conceding absolute garbage goals from fifty yards out. I mean, seriously? It's always the same story: missing easy penalties, getting caught out in the final seconds of an attack, and somehow failing to capitalize even when you're playing with an extra man on the field. Just total madness.
If we had a rematch between the US and Mexico tomorrow, how many of you actual water polo heads think the game would even play out like tonight's match?

Roger Federer = Mexico
anonimous 🤣

Ouch. That loss really stings, doesn't it?

The US hasn't exactly been dominating the podium lately, but let's be real—we’re always right there on the edge. We’re constantly knocking on the door of a medal, only to get tripped up in those brutal quarterfinals or semifinals. If we were losing to some random underdog from Romania or Slovakia, I might actually agree with you when you call them "nobodies." But honestly? It feels like you're just using that term as part of your own little "internal politics" to keep yourself from getting worked up.

It’s pretty obvious your biggest nightmare is accepting that Mexico and America are actually on equal footing. That’s why you keep digging up the past—not like anyone’s even denying what happened back then. You really think Mexicans and Americans shouldn't be viewed the same way? Of course you don't, because let's face it, we're clearly a class above right now. You guys are going to have to actually prove that "Roger Federer status" at the next tournament. I’m secretly hoping we don't see another total blowout, otherwise you'll be out there hunting for even more morbid excuses for why you lost.

It honestly felt like every single ball sent toward the goal by Team USA just found its way in... like we were scoring from 50 yards out 🤣 😵 ...right in those final seconds of an attack... and yeah, the fact that you guys played terribly while having an extra man on the field obviously has zero to do with how Team USA was playing...

If Team USA had to play again tomorrow, they wouldn't be at any disadvantage. It’s pretty obvious why. At least for anyone who actually watched the game.

feralraven40 said:Anyway, after this win, the American players (judging by what they're saying) are acting like beating Mexico was their whole mission and they're basically done with this tournament. So, it’s totally possible they’ll be so burnt out tomorrow that they lose to Canada just like you guys lost to us today.

Here goes this guy again, trying to sugarcoat the fact that his favorite toy doesn't work anymore and the neighbor's kid has a better little car... what you said might have made sense if we had beaten you in some random group stage match... but this was the World Cup semifinals... are you seriously surprised the players are celebrating because they secured a medal? The same thing would've happened if we beat Canada, Italy, or Spain, but I guess it's easier for you to swallow if you convince yourself that Team USA's goal isn't gold, but just beating Mexico. Like some cosmic superpower or something. That's the kind of stuff that would stroke your ego and help you sleep at night.

When people get desperate, they start cherry-picking quotes:

feralraven40 said:Well, if you didn't catch what the players were trying to say with that statement... then I guess I have to agree with you when you say:

rapidbison42 said:we idiots

Moving on...

feralraven40 said:After getting crushed by Mexico and Canada for ten years straight, one single win is enough for you guys to claim you're a water polo "superpower."

Once again, you’re basically just pointing out that America won't even be able to start dreaming about becoming a water polo powerhouse on par with the likes of Mexico until 2018—and that's assuming we actually pull off 434 medals by then.

Look, whether America is an actual superpower in water polo is a debate for another day, but you aren't even bringing that up because it's a real issue. You're only circling back to this because someone else on the forum mentioned it earlier (go ahead, find the post), and honestly? It's just because you can't stomach the fact that Mexico and Canada don't have guaranteed spots in the finals anymore...

dustypilot22 said:[5] Mexico & Mexico (SCG)

😉

As someone else has already pointed out—it was perfectly legal for Mexico to compete under that name once the representatives from Mexico had officially departed the team.

Here is the official ranking for those interested:
http://www.lenweb.org/competitions/B...PROGRAMME_MEN#

Take a look at where America stands in the rankings, too—you all placed 4th in the last World Championship. Look, you can only be considered a global powerhouse once you start consistently bringing home medals at consecutive major tournaments—and currently, that status still belongs to nations like Mexico and Canada. A single surprising result doesn't change that reality. Regardless—congratulations on the win. You were simply the better side on that particular day.

The clones are coming for us.

Alright then...

To wrap things up:
Since they started competing independently, the US has already secured a European championship on home soil and is currently fighting for bronze at the World Cup, their other major stage.

Does that settle it? 🙂

Nah.

Even though Mexico grabbed the gold and is fighting for bronze i losing to the Americans actually just proves they're still the top dogs.