Chief of Cardiovascular Surgery at Mayo Clinic arrested

Casey Cook10 said:..... rather, it's a country that lacks the resources to shorten waiting lists and isn't even trying to build them up. .....

And now, you see this same rib with the exact same crew acting like some kind of savior, claiming they'll operate on the person in question without "disrupting the current system" or "harming others." But let's be real—someone is always going to get screwed over because if they aren't bumping a surgery date, they're taking up a spot in the shock room that someone else desperately needs.

I'm with you, Doc. The real culprit here is just government inertia, where things are basically being run by people chasing whatever niche interests happen to cross their desks.

It seems everyone here is playing the moral high ground.

The truth is, most of you would gladly spit out your entire savings if your dad, husband, son, or someone close to you had to wait eleven months for a cardiac procedure, knowing there's a real chance they could die while on the waiting list.

In that situation, I doubt any of you would actually show solidarity with an anonymous stranger who happens to be ahead of you in line...

Casey Cook10 said:Look, guys like this gentleman are all over the waiting lists for any cardiac surgeon you care to ask. His suggestion to just wait 2-3 months—which is about what you’d face at Cleveland Clinic—was actually pretty fair. In other places, he’d be looking at a two-year wait. This isn't an issue with him, John, or Mark personally; it's a failure of the government. They don't have the resources to shorten those lists, nor do they seem interested in building them up.

Now, that's the real issue right there. Our healthcare system hasn't budged an inch in years. Nothing is ever done to create the conditions needed to actually shrink those waiting lists. And why is it so hard to get specialized training here? People claim it's too expensive, but it's at a point where an individual can't even afford it themselves.

Scott Allen10 said:@paradajzić&Kevin Allen10

I’ve been off the grid for a bit, but I couldn't just leave you all hanging...

Don't try to sell me on the idea that I'm just whining or label my perspective as "generalizing." While it's true one shouldn't paint with too broad a brush, perhaps my commentary is simply the inverse of the medical side's own generalizations—where they act as if absolutely no one earns more than $4,000 a year and everyone is practically starving. We all know that reality is a long way from the truth, isn't it?......

Oh, really...
So now, suddenly, it’s possible that we aren't making things up? 🤔
Based on your previous posts, it was apparently impossible for a doctor to work for $2000 😁
. And yet, here you are, insisting we claimed that nobody makes more than $1.75
. 🙄
That isn't complaining; it's a defense against your aggressive stance that every single physician is incredibly well-compensated.
Like a broken record,
"The public sector is best,"
For heaven's sake 😁—is it actually logical to suggest they are the highest paid when you consider the years of schooling and the specialized titles required?
🤔

And you never stop lecturing about hospitals.
How many small towns in America have a local clinic with an incomplete medical team?
According to your logic, the staff in all of them must be lazy or incompetent.
Well, Scott Allen10 knows best.
He’s seen it all. 😂
He sees the absolute mess of their training and decades of experience, yet he wields this forum authority to question their very expertise.
By your standards, family medicine is a joke,
virtually on par with high school level knowledge. 🙄

Is the solution simply to shut down every small rural clinic?

And one last thing.
Given the current system in this country, how could doctors possibly earn a living using the expertise they gained through years of rigorous schooling? People have become accustomed to everything being subpar.

Give me one concrete example, and please, let it be something other than your usual empty rhetoric. 😉

Kevin Allen10 said:Well, now we're getting somewhere...
So, I guess it’s finally possible that we don't have to just make things up anymore. 🤔
Based on what you were saying in those earlier posts, it honestly felt like it was going to be impossible for a doctor to actually get anything done for... $2000 😁
And now you’re trying to tell me that we actually wrote that nobody has more than... $1.75
🙄

I'm honestly a little lost on what you're trying to get at here, because I actually laid out all those numbers for you right at the bottom of the last page.

Look, it’s not like I’m just being difficult for the sake of it; it’s more like I'm trying to push back against that aggressive mindset you have where every single doctor is pulling in a massive paycheck regardless of anything else.

I'm not trying to be aggressive here, I swear; it's honestly just my way of reacting to those stubborn, almost mindless medical claims about feeling "underpaid and undervalued." If you can't wrap your head around that, well, I can't really help you there.

Like a parrot.
Honestly, you just can't beat those government jobs.
Man, what a total mess. 😁 I mean, does it even make sense that they pull in those massive salaries just because they spent a decade in school and climbed their way up to those fancy titles? Honestly, I get the logic behind it, but sometimes you gotta wonder if the grind is actually worth the payout.
🤔

I mean, obviously, for crying out loud, that's just how it is. It wouldn't even make sense if the high-earning professions in the public sector were making more than they already are. So, I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to get at by throwing that claim at me? I guess the real issue here is more like, "Yeah, they're the highest paid, but it's still not enough," right?

Man, you really don't stop going on about hospitals, do you?

I know I’ve been going on and on about hospitals in this thread, but honestly, just go back and re-read the post.

I wonder how many tiny little towns out here in the States have nothing more than a small clinic and a skeleton crew working the front lines.
I bet everyone there is just lazy and doesn't have a clue what they're doing.
Scott Allen10 knows what's up.
He saw it. 😂

I honestly have no clue how many teams they actually have running or if they’re just a bunch of slackers, but you probably know the deal better than anyone. 🙄 I’m just speaking my truth based on what I’ve actually lived through and seen with my own eyes, you know? Honestly, this whole mocking thing you're doing is just pointless and isn't getting you anywhere at all..

Man, it's honestly wild how some people on here try to question someone’s expertise when they’ve got decades of experience and formal training under their belt—it's just ridiculous.
The way you write makes it sound like general medicine is nothing more than a total joke.
It’s honestly basically high school level stuff. 🙄

You’re totally missing the point here, man. Like, what do you mean "what about training and experience?" It goes without saying that you have to put in the work and grind for years to actually get good at a job, especially in medicine. But let's be real—the quality of healthcare here in the States can be hit or miss for a ton of different reasons... it’s definitely not world-class, but honestly, on average, it isn't exactly lightyears away from being decent either.

So, is the decision to shut down that little local clinic final?

Nah.

And just one last thing before I head out...
I honestly can't wrap my head around how doctors are even supposed to make a decent living using all that expensive schooling in a system like ours, especially since everyone seems to expect everything to be dirt cheap.

Give me a real, concrete example here—something that isn't just another empty cliché or a bunch of fluff. 😉

I was just sitting here thinking about all the possibilities, and honestly, I could go on for hours, but let me just throw out a few ideas that popped into my head in like ten seconds: we could set up partnerships with private specialist clinics to handle things like ultrasounds and mammograms alongside a radiologist, maybe even roll out some telemedicine cardiology services through the Magdalena Hospital Call Center, plus there's acupuncture—which is such an underrated way to tackle both acute and chronic pain through a whole suite of different treatments—and then of course there's basic lab work and everything else.

My bad if this post looks a little messy in some spots...

Honestly, this whole thing isn't even about the original topic anymore; it’s just a massive embarrassment for the Cleveland Clinic, especially considering Dr. Oggy is involved.

Rachel Kim52 said:. And whenever I bring this up while living abroad, people back home just roll their eyes at me, claiming that's how things work everywhere. I’m telling you once more: it absolutely is not!

Look, honey, nothing is actually "free" over here; there's just no need for corruption when you pay your way through a bill (or via your insurance) and everyone stays perfectly happy and satisfied.🙂

That’s why those endless "waiting lists" don't really exist.

Jacob Wood9 said:That’s actually why those waiting lists don't even exist...

Well, I mean, they definitely exist. It happens in pretty much any country that's struggling with limited resources. Even in places like Sweden or over in England with the National Health Service.... but there, you can just opt to pay out of pocket for private surgery if you want to skip the line. So if you don't have the cash, you're stuck waiting... which honestly feels pretty similar to how things work here, just without the legal way to pay your way out of it.

Scott Allen10 said:My apologies if this post feels a bit disorganized...

I am officially calling it quits on this one. 😬
We are just talking past each other at this point.
We could go back and forth forever like this, and frankly, it has nothing to do with the actual topic.
First you state one thing, and then you immediately turn around and imply I'm the one who said it.🤔

It is obvious you understand how the system works, yet you play dumb on certain points just to an unbelievable degree.
Take care and enjoy yourself. 😉

Casey Cook10 said:They exist. They exist in any country struggling with limited resources. Even in Sweden or over in England with the National Health Service... but there, you actually have the option to pay out of pocket for private surgery legally. If you don't have the cash, you wait. It's the same situation here, just without the legal private route.

So how does that work—private clinics having zero waiting lists? It’s as if the solution is just to double the number of surgeons and suddenly the lines vanish.

Jacob Wood9 said:Look, nothing out here is actually free. There's no need for corruption when you just pay the bill—or let your insurance handle it—and everyone walks away happy.🙂

That’s why we don't deal with those endless "waiting lists."

It isn't free here either. People pay into Medicare their entire lives, yet somehow they still get told they can't have an operation for free and have to cough up more cash.

jadetinker85 said:Wait, how does it work where private clinics don't have waiting lists? It’s like the solution is just to double the number of surgeons so those lists actually shrink by half or something.

man, things really do get oversimplified sometimes 😬
it isn't just about one single surgeon (and their massive salary, I guess)—you have to think about who's actually footing the bill for the entire medical team involved in a surgery. I mean, it’s never just one doctor; you've always got at least two surgeons, plus the anesthesiologist, the nurses, the surgical techs... there's also the operating rooms, all the high-tech equipment, and stuff like that.
you basically need to build a few more hospitals from scratch, kit them out, train everyone up, and handle a bunch of other little details too 😬
so, like, where is that money supposed to come from?

I honestly don't get why people would even bother paying bribes for heart surgery (especially when we're talking figures like $5,000) when there's a legitimate alternative right here—Magdalena, where—if the papers are telling the truth—surgeries cost somewhere between $2,000 and $7,000.
I mean, if someone actually has enough cash to pay a bribe, they could probably just pay for the procedure legally for almost the exact same amount of money 😕

jadetinker85 said:It’s not actually free here either. People pay into health insurance their entire lives, so they shouldn't be surprised when they're told an operation isn't fully covered and they have to cough up more cash.

Exactly. I don't exactly walk around with "free" healthcare. If someone brings home a monthly net salary of $1.25, their employer is shelling out about $300 for health insurance—that's roughly 15% of the gross pay. Doesn't feel much like a free ride to me.

I am honestly so tired of people acting like healthcare is just "free." Out here in the States, you either pay for it yourself or your employer picks up the tab. In my case, my company covers it, and as I’ve mentioned before, the amount they contribute is actually pretty decent. So, let's be clear: I don't have "free" healthcare; my employer pays more than $0.33 every single month to cover me. And if I end up needing surgery down the line? I'm still on the hook for those costs. Honestly, I should just ask my boss to report my salary as minimum wage and let me pocket the difference in social security taxes. I could just stash the cash under my mattress for whenever I eventually need an operation. 😎

Rachel Kim52 said:Exactly! I don't have "free" healthcare. If someone has a monthly net salary of $1.25, they’re paying about $300 out of their paycheck toward health insurance (which the employer covers)—that's essentially 15% of the gross pay. It doesn't feel free to me.

In reality, that amount is relatively small—$300 isn't even $130—yet equipment and medication aren't any cheaper here than they are in Western Europe. There are also plenty of people reporting much lower salaries than they actually earn, which means the funds aren't being replenished properly. Of course, part of the culprit is the massive bureaucracy within Medicare, but objectively speaking, we just don't contribute enough to the system. As an industry, everything is getting more expensive. One has to be realistic about that.

On a somewhat positive note, the new legislation allows you to seek private care if the waiting list is too long and then submit the bill to Medicare for reimbursement. Essentially, if you have coverage through Medicare that mandates a service be provided within, say, 60 days, it becomes the government's problem if Medicare can't provide that service through one of its contracted facilities within that timeframe.

I suspect many things will change, but anyone hoping for cheap healthcare needs to face reality...

Ashley Moore8 said:đ
I mean, honestly, who actually has the appetite for bribes? You can get the exact same results legally for nearly the same price. 😕

It’s all about the mindset, really. I recall someone from the diaspora mentioning how a relative of theirs actually offered a bribe for a medical consultation—and the amount was higher than what you’d pay for an appointment with a private specialist here in the States.

Ashley Moore8 said:I guess things just kind of have a way of smoothing themselves out eventually, you know? Maybe everything just starts to feel a little less complicated over time. 😬
It’s not really just about one surgeon (and those massive hospital bills they rack up), I guess... it's more about who’s actually footing the bill for the entire medical team involved in a surgery. You've got more than just one doctor; there's always at least two surgeons, plus the anesthesiologist, the nurses, the surgical techs, and all that, not to mention the operating rooms and all the expensive equipment itself.
I mean, I guess we just need to build a handful of hospitals, get them fully equipped, teach everyone what they need to know, and then handle a few other little things like that. 😬
I guess it’s probably just a matter of figuring out how we're supposed to cover that cost, maybe?

That’s true, I guess... but there was a time when you actually had to think about things. Back in the 90s, medical specialties were handed out based on who you knew or political connections rather than merit, so we basically lost an entire generation of doctors across every single field.

Ashley Moore8 said:I don't really get why people would bother paying bribes for heart surgery, especially when you're talking about figures like $5,000... I mean, if the news isn't totally blowing things out of proportion, there's always an alternative at Magdalena where the procedures probably only run between $2,000 and $7,000.
I mean, I guess if someone actually wanted to go through the trouble of paying off a bribe, they could probably just spend that same amount of cash to do things by the book instead, maybe. 😕

Hey Ashley Moore8 and everyone else, I’m just gonna say it again because I feel like I've lost count of how many times I've mentioned this—just because something is allowed doesn't necessarily mean it's actually legal, you know? It honestly feels like they're just playing by a totally different set of rules when it comes to Magdalena compared to everywhere else.
So, you could actually skip the whole Medicare waiting list at that facility if you paid an extra $7,000 to go with Professor Turin—though I think they recently shut that option down for their other surgeons, leaving it only for him. Since Magdalena operates as both a private clinic and a Medicare provider, they had this unique setup that nobody else really offers. That $7,000 is basically just the surgeon's personal fee, because the actual cost of the surgery is way higher; I was looking at some government data, and it’s closer to $15,000 when you factor everything in. I guess if someone walks in and drops $15,000 upfront, then sure, they’ve covered the whole bill, so they definitely earned their spot at the front of the line. But for most people, it's different. For things like heart catheterizations, it’s either strictly out-of-pocket or fully covered by Medicare under their annual quota. Most of their surgical patients are actually on Medicare, and since Medicare covers all the supplies, the hospital stay, the implants—like a valve that costs over $2,000—and the meds, those patients are essentially treated exactly like everyone else. They just paid a premium to have a specific surgeon handle the job, which is how they effectively jump the queue, since anyone covered by Medicare is technically in the same boat.
I guess that woman should've just paid Simic to cut the line too, though I suppose it wouldn't exactly be legal if she was paying Simic, whereas choosing Turin is totally fine, I guess.😕 Look, I'm not exactly out here defending Simic, far from it, but I guess it feels kind of paradoxical when both sides seem to be cutting the line, right? Maybe if we just let people pay their fair share properly, everyone would actually come out ahead... like, if the public hospitals handled the scheduled cases in the morning and then switched over to private procedures in the afternoon—sort of how they do things overseas—everyone would stay on top of their taxes and everything would just work out fine.
I honestly don't get why people are acting so surprised about that advertisement for Magdalena in the Wall Street Journal today... you should probably ask the author why they’re conveniently leaving out certain obvious facts, I guess. Anyway, a heart surgery can actually be covered for around $7,000 through Medicare, and even the diagnostic stuff like catheterizations and stents usually ends up being way cheaper than that, maybe.

Rachel Kim52 said:I am honestly exhausted by people who insist everything is "FREE" healthcare. Out here, you either pay for coverage yourself or your employer handles it—it isn't magic. In my case, my company covers it, and as I mentioned before, the contribution is actually quite decent. So, it’s not "free"—my firm pays for it, amounting to more than $0.33 a month. If I end up needing surgery, I’ll still be on the hook for costs, won't I? Perhaps I should just ask my boss to report my salary as minimum wage and pocket the difference in insurance premiums—I could stash the cash in a sock under my bed for a rainy day. 😎

Well, bravo... you've hit the nail on the head regarding the core issue—the rising number of people being reported at minimum wage, which inevitably drains the public health funds. Eventually, they will have to define a standard basket of covered services based on a fixed amount rather than a percentage—say, 15 percent of last year's average salary—which an employer MUST pay for their staff, regardless of what the official paperwork says. For anything beyond that, one would look to private insurance with actual, functional policies... if we incentivized that, money would flow back into the system, and we could offer tax breaks to employers who provide supplemental coverage... there are ways to fix this.

Betty Cox30 said:Nice one... you hit the nail on the head. More people relying on minimum wage benefits means a massive strain on Medicare funds.

Look, who actually knows where all that Medicare money is going? It’s a black hole. They buy equipment at double the market rate, and there are rumors plenty of doctors are using public funds to outfit their own private practices. Imagine if we started tackling those issues first, just for once.

icegirl78 said:Out there, you either have health insurance provided by your employer or you pay for it yourself. Here, employers cover it, and as I mentioned before, the coverage amounts are actually quite decent.

I suppose we should ask ourselves: who are the biggest users of the healthcare system? Retirees, most likely.
But who exactly is their employer?
When you see an elderly lady clutching a handful of prescriptions, what she’s holding in her hand probably costs $500, yet for her, it costs $6.75. It’s practically free, I guess.