Chief of Cardiovascular Surgery at Mayo Clinic arrested

Casey Cook10 said:A woman paying Smith is basically paying to skip the line—which isn't exactly legal when you're paying Smith, but it totally is if you choose Turner instead...😕 I’m not trying to defend Smith here, not at all, but isn't it kind of a paradox when both types of patients end up skipping the queue? Maybe we should just let people pay their way properly so everyone wins... Like, let the public hospitals run scheduled surgeries in the morning, then switch over to private ones in the afternoon (kind of how they handle things abroad). Everyone pays their taxes, and everything stays smooth and simple.

The lady who paid Smith, if I remember correctly, did so at a public hospital—and under our healthcare system, those places don't really operate on a commercial basis! So, LEGALLY, Ashley Moore8 can't just show up with a bag of cash and snatch a slot from Stefanie, who was supposed to be operated on today at 9 AM!

To me, it feels just like comparing any checkup at a public clinic to one where I LEGALLY pay my own way at a private facility in Germany or wherever and get finished about a hundred times faster.

So, I was just checking out Madeline's website...

"Madeline is a specialized hospital focusing on cardiovascular surgery and cardiology.
It stands as the first private hospital in America."

I mean, it’s honestly such a tiny difference when you compare it to the Cleveland Clinic....

Casey Cook10 said:That’s spot on. But there was a time when we actually used to think ahead... back in the 90s, medical residencies were handed out based on who you knew or which political party you belonged to. We ended up losing an entire "middle generation" of doctors across every single specialty.

Exactly. That might be the core issue here—it's much easier to shuffle some funding around or pretend to fight corruption (which, let's face it, never truly hits zero) than it is to train 500 new specialists from scratch.

I see a very similar pattern in my own field. Back in the 90s, my university practically ignored the development of young researchers. Now that the senior professors have moved on—some retired, others, sadly, passed away—the faculty is facing a massive void. We have plenty of junior assistants and enough new recruits, but we are missing the associate and full professors entirely. There is no middle tier left.

The tragedy is that cutting corners on education doesn't show its teeth until ten years later. By then, nobody even remembers who was running the hospital or sitting in the Secretary of Health's office back then.

Ashley Moore8 said:so I was just looking at Madeline's website

"Madeline is a specialized hospital for cardiovascular surgery and cardiology.
It’s the first private hospital in America."

I mean, that's really just a tiny distinction compared to the Cleveland Clinic...

I guess you don't quite get how the whole system actually works, maybe? Like, there's the whole dynamic of how private facilities deal with Medicare when they're negotiating coverage for massive things like heart surgery.

So, I feel like there isn't much point in us keeping this conversation going since I haven't been able to make it any clearer than this.

Casey Cook10 said:It seems like you just don't get how the whole system actually works. You have to consider what private providers are dealing with when they negotiate their service contracts with Medicare, especially for massive expenses like heart surgery.

So, I honestly think there's no point in us going back and forth on this since I've laid it out as clearly as I can.

alright Casey....
correct me if I'm totally off base here, but at Madeline, they actually have a set price list for specific exams and surgeries—so, like, if I just show up there and drop 7k bucks (and I am NOT asking for any kind of reimbursement from Medicare, even though I know they work with them as a "contracted provider"), I don't really see where the issue lies 😕
but then again, you don't really see that kind of setup over at Cleveland Clinic...

😕

Ashley Moore8 said:okay doc....
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Madeline actually has a set price list for certain checkups or surgeries, so if I just show up there and drop 7k bucks—and I'm definitely NOT asking Medicare for any kind of reimbursement, even though I know they work with them as a contracted provider—I don't really see what the big deal is. 😕

I guess you might be mistaken, since you maybe didn't catch everything I was saying in my last post.
The thing is, it wouldn't actually cost you just 7k, it would probably end up being way more depending on the surgery or how long you stay, or if there are complications and stuff...
That 7k is basically just the surgeon's fee (specifically for Professor Turner, which seems fine to me. There used to be prices for other surgeons too, but I think they phased that out recently. It was called a "one-time insurance fee" and it was listed online in the price guide. I know because I actually paid it myself). Supplies aren't even included in that price.
And honestly, as long as Medicare contributes even a single cent toward covering someone's medical costs, I feel like that person shouldn't get any special treatment over any other insured person just because they're paying the rest out of pocket.

Ashley Moore8 said:that doesn't happen at Cleveland Clinic...

It doesn't happen anywhere in public hospitals. I suppose Madeline is allowed to do it just because they've branded themselves as a private facility or something.😕
Like I said... if Medicare is helping pay the bills, then that patient should be treated just like anyone else, and we shouldn't allow people to be discriminated against based on their bank account. Or, if things are going that way, then it should be allowed in public hospitals too—during a doctor's scheduled hours, of course, while paying the hospital, the staff, and all that... which is the most important part for the IRS!!!

Alright, Doc... I think I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

So, I was thinking—since we actually have the option to go through public hospitals for heart surgeries here in the States—if I ever found myself in that position and had the funds available, I’d probably just opt for the state-run route. Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that at all! It feels like a totally valid choice, I guess.

So, just to be super clear—and I know I might have been a little vague in my last post—what I’m actually talking about is me just paying the full amount out of my own pocket and not even bothering to ask Medicare for a single cent in reimbursement. Like, seriously, not even a dime—just so there's absolutely no confusion about what I mean!

I mean, at the end of the day—why wouldn't Medicare just cover maybe 20% of the cost if I'm footing the rest of the bill myself? It’s just... I feel like since I’m already paying a pretty decent chunk out of my paycheck every single month for health insurance, it seems kind of weird to pay full price for everything else. Especially when I'm already covering my own dentists, gynecologists, and those routine checkups anyway—you know, all that extra stuff out of pocket.
So, I actually got bumped off my list—which means someone else is probably gonna jump ahead of me in line because of that... I guess? Just one of those things, I suppose!

So, looking back at that whole mess down in San Francisco—total disaster, right?—it’s pretty wild how some people just find ways to get rich off everyone else's misfortune. But there's one thing that really sticks out to me if you think about it... I mean, if the father of LJ Krajnovic was supposed to be waiting his turn for maybe two or three months, but apparently you could just cut the line by dropping five grand upfront... doesn't it seem a little fishy? Like, did that quick rib surgery basically just push some poor, unlucky soul right off the waiting list? I guess it makes you wonder, you know?

I was wondering—does the coverage (plus all those extra costs for Madeline—like equipment, maintenance, and everything else) come straight out of the budget, or is that stuff handled privately?

Jacob Wood9 said:And who are the biggest consumers of healthcare services? Retirees, obviously.
But who exactly is their employer?

In the past, pension funds covered healthcare costs for retirees—before they were systematically gutted, though that is a whole other saga. Essentially, the fund pays for the basic necessities... but since both the pension and health funds are tied directly to the federal budget, we’re essentially just moving money from one empty pocket to another.

Ashley Moore8 said:... but one thing really sticks out to me—if Mr. Krajnovic's father was supposed to wait 2-3 months for his turn, yet they could just pay $5,000 to jump the line, didn't that quick rib surgery basically "bump" some poor soul off the waiting list?

Nah. I actually looked into this. 😉

I’m jumping into this thread a little late, I guess, but since I’ve had my own run-ins with Dr. Smith, I feel like I should probably say something...

So, basically, a family member of mine had to have emergency heart surgery a few years back. Since they’d already had one procedure before the war, they were in a pretty high-risk category this time around. Dr. Smith checked them out and decided the surgery was doable but risky—which, okay, wasn't actually the case—but he claimed that for the operation to happen, we needed some really expensive meds... Dr. Smith kept the patient stuck in the hospital for almost two months (on the taxpayer's dime, obviously) just waiting. Waiting for what? Nobody had a clue. He even sent the guy to a spa resort, like that’s where you go to wait for surgery... Well, the patient ended up having a heart attack at the spa and barely made it out alive. Naturally, they had to rush him back to the hospital. I should mention that every time Smith updated us on the patient's status, he’d drop questions like, "So, what do you do for a living? Are you in tourism? Do you rent out vacation rentals?" Since we'd heard Smith was some top-tier specialist who used to work in Germany, it never even crossed our minds to offer him cash. And look, personally, I’m against any kind of bribery, especially when it comes to doctors! One time, it was my turn to sit down for a consultation with him. Since I can't stand anyone trying to pull rank on me, our little chat ended pretty quickly. Dr. Smith is honestly just a total jerk—like, a complete hillbilly who thinks he can talk down to miserable patients and their families, but he couldn't do that with me.

Around then, some acquaintances tipped us off that Dr. Smith doesn't perform a single surgery without $5,000 in a blue envelope! Before I keep going, I need to touch on this text
which I mostly agree with, except for two things. First, the part where the author attacks people who actually pay the bribes!? I’d argue people do it out of pure desperation just to save their lives! Second, the author claims that nobody on the ward knew anything about the bribe-taking!!!!
Either she was living in her own little bubble or she's talking about some other San Francisco, or some other Dr. Smith.... Because the nurses on the ward—even the doctors (one older, one younger)—told us "in confidence" that there wouldn't be an operation without the money. Actually, the younger doctor said, "I mean, you can see he's been holding them in the hospital for two months already, are you guys stupid or just incredibly naive...?"... Honestly, now even I'm wondering.....
Now, whether that young doctor was actually trying to help us or if he's also in on the cash really, I don't know and I don't want to get into it, but the fact remains that everyone—and I mean EVERYONE, not just the ward but the whole hospital—knew about it!
And if people are attacking patients now because they paid bribes or because they didn't report the doctor, I just don't get how all those supposedly "moral" healthcare workers didn't just say, "Enough is enough, I can't do this, I'm reporting the doctor..." ???'
Maybe they had a conscience, but it's always easier to live with a dirty conscience if you just blame everyone else....

Patients in the rooms were actually discussing among themselves how much everyone had handed over to Dr. Smith... After everything, you have to wonder if Dr. Smith ever operated on anyone without taking a kickback....???

One more thought on
The author mentions Smith's political involvement and says there were complaints against him before that were just swept under the rug. Does that mean Dr. Smith (who happens to be the head of the local Democratic Block in San Francisco) has started getting in the way of the traditionally liberal administration in town????

When you look at the political side of things, I honestly feel like the current administration is just trying to run a smear campaign against that Democratic statement out of San Francisco to set the stage for the upcoming election season. Honestly, it wouldn't even surprise me if that was their whole playbook here.

As for whether Dr. Smith is actually an expert—I mean, there isn't really anything to suggest he’s "top-tier." He didn't have any real competition from anyone in Washington, D.C., and when you realize that almost every cardiac specialist in the US can claim to be "world-class," his reputation feels a bit inflated.
Plus, he seemed to cherry-pick his patients, only taking on cases where the prognosis was already looking good. Any of the super tricky or high-risk cases? He’d just send those straight to NYC or pass on them entirely. It's pretty easy to pad your stats and call yourself a superstar when you only take the wins.

While the server is actually staying up, anyone know what's going on? I guess that month of detention is almost over. What happens next, maybe?

Scott Allen10 said:Regarding the political side of things—I honestly think it’s more likely that the current administration is just trying to tear down the Democratic Party of San Francisco with this whole string of scandals to prep for the upcoming election cycle. I wouldn't even be shocked if that was the actual play here.

Maybe, but Smith doesn't really have anything to do with the Democrats; he's tied to HB, which is basically a fringe party, and anyway, Clinton settled his score with Goldwater a long time ago. I mean, sure, it's possible, but I don't see the point. Honestly, I could see the Democratic Party in San Francisco actually turning this mess into a win for themselves...

Scott Allen10 said:As for Dr. Smith's skills—there isn't a single thing you can point to that justifies calling him "top-tier." He didn't even have any real competition in Washington, D.C., and when you look at cardiac surgery in America, there are plenty of specialists who actually qualify as "elite."
And when it came to surgeries, he only took on patients who already had a great prognosis. Any case that looked even slightly tricky? He just sent them off to Washington, D.C. or simply didn't operate. I guess it's pretty easy to maintain perfect stats and act like a "world-class" surgeon that way.

Yeah, that's a possibility... But the specific case I was talking about was incredibly messy because it was already a second surgery and all that. I also know Smith operated over in Switzerland, Germany... and so on. I suspect he steered clear of the tough cases specifically to protect his numbers, just like you said, rather than because he lacked the skill.

But man, there's one thing I just can't wrap my head around; how does a doctor, with any kind of conscience, just let a patient die???! I truly don't get it. What kind of person are you, to just not care whether someone lives or dies???? I just don't understand... That alone is enough to warrant a long stretch behind bars.

Crime is crime, plain and simple. I just think the real headache is how so much stuff in this country gets brushed off as "gray areas" instead of being called out as clearly black or white.

By the way, just a tiny little heads-up for the mods—the title "Chief of Cardiovascular Surgery at Mayo Clinic" should probably be in lowercase, just so nobody else picks up the wrong habit! Thanks so much!

Ugh, wiredrider2... honestly, who cares? At least Smith is keeping us entertained! Just when you think they’ve finally caught him red-handed with "everything," suddenly two or three more victims pop up every single day... maybe if they actually worked faster, they’d start asking who *hasn't* paid him yet.

This is exactly what I’m talking about! I saw it with my own eyes—every single day, there were like 15 or 20 patients or family members just hanging out outside his office waiting to talk. And if you listen to the actual patients swapping stories—not just some random guessing, mind you—at least a third of them showed up with an envelope tucked in their pocket. Even if we just assume a conservative average of maybe $2,000 per person...
The thing is, most of these people weren't exactly swimming in cash. They were taking out loans, hitting up relatives for money, or selling off whatever they could just to scrape together enough for the damn doctor. People who actually have money? They aren't handing bribes to doctors. They just head over to a private clinic like Magdalena or fly out to Italy, Austria, or Switzerland instead...

It’s always the broke ones getting screwed over...

Dennis Patel2 said:It’s doable, but honestly, Smith doesn't have anything to do with the Democrats; his ties are to HB, which is just a minor player, and Clinton settled things with Goldwater ages ago. I mean, sure, it could happen, but I don't see the point. If anything, the Democratic Party of San Francisco might actually try to spin this case to their own advantage...

And you know, that’s definitely on the table... But the whole situation I was talking about earlier was just incredibly messy since we were already looking at a second surgery and all that stuff. I also know Smith spent time operating over in Switzerland and Germany too. My gut feeling is he was steering clear of those super high-stakes cases just to keep his success rates looking pretty, exactly like you mentioned, rather than because he didn't know what he was doing.

But man, there’s just one thing I can’t wrap my head around; how does a doctor with a clean conscience just let a patient pass away???! I really don't get it—what kind of person are you to be totally indifferent to whether someone lives or dies ???? It’s just beyond me....That alone is enough to land him a long stretch behind bars.

When it comes to the political side of things... it doesn't matter if Ogi was messing around with HB. What matters is the public perception that this whole scandal went down in Democratic San Francisco. At the end of the day, if I recall correctly, Linić was the one who brought Ogi into San Francisco in the first place.

As far as his actual skills go... when he was out of town, he mostly just played the role he assigned to his assistants back in San Francisco—you know, harvesting veins from legs for bypasses—and maybe did a few surgeries on his own, but certainly nothing major.
Then again, because we only have a handful of cardiac surgeons in the whole country, we don't really have any way to accurately judge who's truly elite and who isn't.
He showed up in San Francisco acting like he was the king of the world, and he acted like it too, mainly because he had zero competition, so nobody even had the expertise to call him out on his skill level. Plus, anyone can fudge the statistics if they want to.

Yes, Trevor, you can certainly believe this case was politically engineered. I am convinced there are plenty of other doctors out there billing private fees for work they are already being paid for by the government, yet it surprises me that we are finally seeing one of them targeted. It seems logical that he isn't being prosecuted because he’s actually corrupt or a thief, but rather for purely political reasons. America is still a long way from having a true rule of law where thieves are prosecuted simply because they are 😢