Patient is in pain, but they're just being cheap...

I was gonna title this thread "f*** you all for being sadistic," but then I thought maybe that wouldn't be fair to the doctors who actually give a damn about their patients

but honestly, f*** that doctor and his whole family. It’s been five days since my brother’s nose surgery, and today he had those nasal tampons pulled out

And look, my brother isn't some wimp. He straight up asked the docs—like, "Hey, can I take some painkillers first? How much is this gonna hurt? A little, medium, or crazy?" And the doctor just gave him this deadpan, totally indifferent answer that it would only hurt "a tiny bit"

That "tiny bit" turned into my brother needing two nurses to physically hold him down. Seriously, they could have solved everything with just one single dose of Valium or something

But no. In some twisted version of a military drill where people just lose limbs without a second thought, this doctor rushed in to yank those tampons out. They were stuck right against the bone because it's a fresh surgical wound, and it never even crossed his mind to make it easier on the patient—or himself

Not to mention, it's clearly just about saving a measly $6.75 which is basically what a single dose costs, maybe 40 bucks
and when they told me that was the issue, I swear I would've bought it myself and brought it in

Now I'm gonna vent and write some letters:
-to the Secretary of Health
-to the Director of that hospital
-to the Head of that department
-and to the Patient Rights Association

I really want to know how far they'll go under the guise of "budget cuts"
Like, what's next? Are we expecting surgeries without anesthesia soon? For god's sake, you could save a few hundred bucks that way too

I am just so bitter and pissed off

Especially since I went through a similar surgery a few years back and I know exactly how brutal pulling those tampons is. I was just one of the "lucky" ones who actually got an injection

God, these heartless jerks😠

It isn't about twenty or $13. It's about the fact that you'll eventually prefer dying over stepping foot in a hospital, which will save Medicare even more money than you think 🙄

It’s not about cutting costs... seriously, before you start throwing insults around, maybe try educating yourself or at least showing some interest. Besides, if you took this angry outburst straight to the hospital director or the Secretary of Health—or whoever else you’re dreaming up—you wouldn't look tough; you'd just look foolish.
Apaurin and Dormicum are anxiolytics/sedatives (not analgesics). You could have given your brother 30 mg of Apaurin and he'd still be in pain; the only difference is he'd be drowsy and sleepy, but the pain would be exactly the same...
Dormicum causes amnesia. He'd be groggy, tired, out of it, and still in pain. Again, it's a sedative, not a painkiller.
As for that third thing you mentioned—asking the doctor for "some kind of pill." Those "painkillers" you're talking about thin the blood, so he'd just end up bleeding like crazy after the tampon is removed, and he'd still be hurting just as much.
So, we're left with local or general anesthesia. Local isn't an option because there's nowhere to apply it (the mucosa is covered by swabs, and that area hurts). General is off the table too, because it carries its own risks, and you don't put someone under general anesthesia without a damn good reason.

See? It's not a money issue... I really hope this post actually reaches you.

Way to go, Sophia Martinez65

It seems some people just have this burning, desperate need to drag doctors through the mud at every opportunity.

Sophia Martinez65 said:It’s honestly not about cutting corners... seriously, before you start coming at people with all that attitude, maybe do a little homework or at least show some interest. Plus, if you actually took that angry outburst to a hospital director or a Secretary of Health or whoever you're talking about, you would’ve just looked foolish, nothing more.
Apaurin and Dormicum are anxiolytics/sedatives (not painkillers), so even if they gave your brother 30 mg of Apaurin, he’d still be hurting—he’d just be calm and sleepy, but the pain wouldn't budge...
Dormicum causes amnesia, so he’d be out of it, groggy, totally wiped, and still in pain. Again, it's a sedative, not an analgesic.
As for that third thing you mentioned, asking the doctor for some pill to take. Those "painkillers" you're talking about can mess with blood clotting, so he’d just bleed like crazy after the tampons are pulled out, and he’d still be in pain, no different.
So, we're left with local or general anesthesia. Local isn't an option because there's nowhere to apply it (the mucosa is covered by the tampons, and that part hurts). General is off the table too, because it carries its own risks and you don't put someone under for no reason.

See? It’s not about saving money... I really hope this reaches you.

Dear Doctor, and I’m also addressing the specialist here
I’m sorry I didn't have enough time to brush up on my anesthesiology training
but since I’ve been through a super similar surgery myself
meaning, having those same nasal tampons removed
luckily, I was able to do it at a private clinic
and the surgeon there, while pulling the tampons out
"treated" me to an ampule of Dormicum when he saw how much I was freaking out
Look, I'm not a drama queen or someone who can't handle a "little bit of pain"
For God's sake, I'm a woman—we literally give birth, remember? 😁
Anyway—after that injection, the tampons were out in like 5 minutes
and I had zero issues
Yeah, I was a little drowsy, but I was back home within 15 minutes
Regarding the Apaurin and stuff, I was just listing things roughly, who knows, maybe you think Dormicum is holy water and you only save it for end-of-life stuff I won't even mention

Anyway—to sum it up:
Yes—you can make a patient more comfortable, and if you're worried about them being groggy, just explain the side effects first
Believe me—90 percent of people who’ve had nasal tampons pulled will choose being groggy over the alternative
About the letter—no, I didn't send one, I was just acting out of emotion
I snap easily, but I back down even faster
which still doesn't mean I think it's okay or professional to ignore a way to ease a patient's pain, as long as it doesn't seriously risk their health.

Sophia Martinez65 said:It’s really not about cutting costs here... honestly, before you start throwing insults around, maybe take a second to actually look into how this works. Besides, if you actually went off on a hospital director or a government official like you mentioned, you wouldn't look tough—you’d just look foolish.
Drugs like Apaurin or Dormicum are anxiolytics and sedatives, not painkillers. Even if they gave your brother 30 mg of Apaurin, he’d still be in pain; he’d just be sleepy, calm, and totally out of it while the pain stays exactly the same...
Dormicum causes amnesia too, so he’d be groggy, exhausted, and feeling like nothing, but the pain would still be there. Again, that's a sedative, not an analgesic.
As for that third thing you mentioned—asking the doctor for a pill—those "painkillers" you're talking about can mess with blood clotting. He’d just end up bleeding like crazy after the tampon is removed, and he’d still be hurting just as much.
So, we’re basically stuck with local or general anesthesia. Local isn't even an option because you can't apply it where it counts (the mucosa is covered by swabs, and that area is sensitive). And general anesthesia is out because you don't put someone under for no reason given the risks involved.

See, it's clearly not about saving money... I really hope this reaches you.

This is just nonsense. Sedatives like Dormicum or Apaurin are actually great for these minor procedures where you know there's going to be discomfort. Does it really matter whether the patient gets a sedative or an analgesic if they get through the procedure without pain, or at least half as much? The pain definitely wouldn't be the same, that's a hundred percent certain.
And regarding the whole debate over analgesics and bleeding times—that doesn't even hold water. You're talking about things like Aspirin or Voltaren... personally, I'm thinking about Tramal or even better, Dolantin—it’s an incredible narcotic analgesic that works wonders if administered intravenously the right way. There's no reason those meds shouldn't work, and I doubt there'd be any significant bleeding issues at all.
Anesthesia is absolutely on the table, so why wouldn't it be? The only real issue is how hospitals are organized; usually, there aren't enough anesthesiologists on hand, and it isn't standard practice for them to deal with these tiny little things. However, if you happen to be some kind of VIP patient, boom—you've got an anesthesiologist ready for whatever you want. I've seen this firsthand: whether it's a quick dental fix, a gastroscopy, or a colonoscopy... just a little Rapifen, Diprivan, or Fentanyl in the vein and you're done in five minutes. You're awake in ten, clear-headed in thirty...
There are really two sides to this point. First (and less likely), it's cost-cutting because ENT departments usually don't keep heavy-duty analgesics in stock. But the main reason is ignorance—I'd almost call it callousness. Ignorance, because doctors are too scared to administer stronger IV meds without an anesthesiologist standing right there ("they might stop breathing, they might aspirate," blah, blah, blah...). And callousness, because they know the person will survive, even if they suffer like hell during or after the procedure.

Scott Allen10 said:...Take Tramadol or even better, Dolantran—it's a killer narcotic analgesic that works wonders if you administer it parenterally right.

🙏 thank god, seriously, because I legit thought I was losing my mind
like, when my doctor gave me some Ambien before pulling my tampons—I actually thought I was hallucinating

my brother had just taken two Tramadols the day before
I had piles of meds at the hospital, I never carry them around, it never even crosses my mind—but in this case, I knew things were gonna go south, excuse me my friend
so I told him, "darling, when the doctor tells you tomorrow morning during rounds that he's doing the tampons—just pop these two Tramadols immediately"
it might make him a little drowsy—yeah, but I guarantee he won't have to deal with two nurses pinning him down because he's so sedated
I mean, wouldn't it be easier for doctors to work when the patient is chill?
but he's such a straight arrow (even if he is my brother 😁 ) and asked the doctor for his opinion, which is totally fine and honestly what you should do
only the doctor just deadass told him it wouldn't hurt even a tiny bit

hello? like, is that some new medical technique now?
it’s not like a quick shot where a two-year-old won't feel a thing and it's over in three seconds
we aren't talking about kids here, people, and we aren't talking about three or thirty seconds
this was something shoved up a nose, sitting right on the wound for five whole days!

So, why didn't you just report that sadistic director to the hospital board or the Department of Health? Why not file a lawsuit? Honestly, why didn't you track down his car and scratch the paint job? I mean, once your brother is back on his feet, why wouldn't he gather a few buddies and have a little chat with him—you know, a "hey, this isn't going to hurt a bit" kind of conversation? I’m not suggesting anything violent, obviously, but if you just corner him in a dark hallway and ask him very pointedly why he skipped the anesthesia, he might actually learn a lesson. Seriously, why is there no accountability here?

Justin Fox, I honestly think what you’re suggesting is a bit provocative.

Look, I’ve pulled out plenty of abdominal drains, T-drains from choledochus, and I’ve dressed some seriously nasty surgical wounds—including war injuries where bones were actually exposed... and speaking from my own experience, I can tell you one thing: you absolutely never skimp on pain management for patients undergoing procedures that are objectively excruciating, like major burns (which sometimes get dressed under general anesthesia or sedation).
That part about sedation is huge—pain has a massive psychological component that people tend to overlook.
Not everyone experiences pain in the exact same way...
Also, you really need to talk to a patient before a procedure and just calm them down... they have to trust the operator, it's vital. When that happens, it hurts a lot less, believe me.
For instance, resetting a fresh shoulder dislocation isn't actually that painful if you manage it right; even if the patient was screaming in agony beforehand, once you reassure them that the pain will vanish the second the humeral head pops back into place, and then you sedate them and relax the muscles with something like IV diazepam, it's much smoother.
I personally had an ERCP done for obstructive jaundice without any premedication or analgesia at all... obviously, it hurt, especially when they performed a papilotomy (at the Mango papilla) using a cautery, but I managed. In fact, after the procedure (which, by the way, was unsuccessful, and they ended up having to do a laparotomy and common bile duct exploration an hour later), I actually got myself up off the table and walked back to my room on my own.
The morning after my surgery, I was already up and walking around.
But personally, I prefer it when the patient doesn't feel any pain at all—it just makes my job easier... I even perform simple procedures like electrocauterizing tiny papillomas on the neck under local anesthesia.
And I know for a fact that most of my colleagues aren't sadists, regardless of what some people here are arguing...

Justin Fox said:Then why didn't you just report that jerk to the hospital director or the Department of Health right away? Why no lawsuit? Why didn't you find his car and scratch the paint up? Honestly, once your brother was feeling better, why couldn't he and a few buddies just wait for him and tell him, "Look, this isn't gonna hurt at all"? I'm not saying go full vigilante, but if they just cornered him in the dark and gave him a serious talk about why he skipped the anesthesia, he'd learn. Seriously, where's the justice?

Justin Fox, if you actually mean what you wrote, just remember we live in a country with laws and nobody gets to play judge, jury, and executioner on their own.

But honestly, since you're clearly just being a troll, I hope you—or someone close to you—ends up in the exact same spot one day. Then let's see how much you love those same words. ☕

Susan Martin24 said:Justin Fox, I think your suggestion is actually pretty provocative.

Look, I’ve pulled out plenty of abdominal drains, T-tubes from bile ducts, and cleaned some seriously nasty surgical wounds—including war injuries where you can see the actual bone... and speaking from experience here: you NEVER skimp on pain management for patients undergoing procedures that are objectively brutal, like major burns (which sometimes get dressed while they're still under general anesthesia or heavy sedation)..

I mean, thanks for the effort and the massive post, but what I’m talking about really HURTS.
I know from my own experience (had a broken nose once after a car wreck, so I had to deal with those post-op nasal packs myself) and I also know from talking to people who went through the exact same surgery.

And yeah—if you’re getting this done at a private clinic, they give you a shot of Dormicum or something similar beforehand to knock you out, so pulling the packing is no big deal.
You should get the same treatment in a hospital, but honestly? Unless you have some damn connection or you're a total VIP,
they basically don't give a single crap about you...

Megan Patel49 said:Justin Fox, if you actually mean what you just wrote, I should remind you that we live in a nation governed by laws, and no one has the right to play judge, jury, and executioner.

Well, since I have a nagging feeling you’re just looking for a reaction, I honestly hope you—or someone close to you—finds yourself in this exact same situation one day. Then you can repeat those same lofty words to whoever is standing over you. ☕

I put it plainly: if the justice system works, use it. If it doesn't, then someone else might feel compelled to step in and deliver it. I truly hope the system holds up, but I’m saying this to make it clear that even if things fall apart, there are always two sides to every fight.

Susan Martin24 made a good point about communicating with patients, and I'm 100% on board with that. I’d just add one thing: give them a choice. Not everyone handles pain the same way; not everyone is some stoic hero. A little sedative or local anesthetic wouldn't hurt anyone. If she wants to wander around after surgery without any pain relief, that’s her prerogative, but it shouldn't have to be mine.

If I had my way, people out in California would probably have their legs amputated while they're still awake—mostly because they’re just as cheap with the anesthesia as those folks from Brač!

Marilyn Monroe said:Look, I appreciate the effort and the massive post, but what I wrote actually HURTS
I know from my own experience—I had a broken nose from a car wreck once, so I had to deal with those nasal tampons after surgery—and I also know from talking to a few people who went through the exact same procedure

From my own experience, I can tell you it didn't hurt me. Sure, it's uncomfortable when you're pulling that stuff out of your nose, but the pain wasn't there for me...