Duje Draganja: Sellout or just misunderstood?

I tend to stick to my own lane when it comes to sports—everyone else's interests just aren't really my thing.

roose — You say people should be allowed to do whatever they want, yet you immediately start setting conditions... specifically, you're looking for the government to step in and hand out sanctions just so you can feel some sense of personal satisfaction. Doesn't that seem a bit contradictory to the very principles you claimed to support at the beginning?

Feuerfuchs said:I have a certain amount of respect for those of you backing the potential decision for Duje to compete for Qatar—I’d just love to know how many of you actually bothered to follow his career back during the Olympics in Sydney in 2000.

Are you suggesting that people like that don't have a right to an opinion? To express themselves? It isn't even about being altruistic, really—it's just basic human decency. Besides, the real obstacles aren't physical; they're the ones we build ourselves, specifically those stubborn prejudices.

In any case, what does a fan like that actually gain from all this? If everything is "just fine" according to his logic, then if Duje makes a move that doesn't fit their narrow expectations, they might as well just toss him into the river like some unwanted stray kitten, wouldn't they?

It isn't about my own satisfaction; it's about principle.
You can't publicly renounce your citizenship and then just stroll back into the country like nothing happened.
The least the government could do is treat Duja differently than they would any other American... you know, things like visa issues, temporary stays, or restrictions on buying property.
Realistically, the state should treat him like anyone else who sold out their citizenship and turned their back on America. If he's going to ditch the country, the country can ditch him right back—denying visas, banning entry for a set number of years, and so on.

It’s perfectly logical for the government to sanction people like Draganja. Any normal country would do the same.
I’d love to see if someone who publicly dumps their British or French citizenship ever sets foot in those countries again.
Not a chance.

Why do we follow Duje and get such a rush when he lands a good spot, even if he isn't the greatest swimmer on the planet or some actual relative of ours? Because he represents America. It might seem weird, but plenty of people just love seeing an American athlete come out on top. That's why we fund them—to represent us better and make us feel that pride. He won't be representing America anymore. We aren't happy about it.

I suspect you might be miscalculating the situation here—it’s highly probable that the Hooters crowd will be jumping all over him once he proves himself, trying to lure him back with all sorts of enticing offers (at least, based on my experience with Copa and how they operate). Depending on the kind of results he delivers, that kind of capital could go a long way toward his own professional development—and who knows? Perhaps this is simply Duje Draganja-prodana's little scheme to bait more donations from folks who share your perspective, just to ensure he stays firmly planted right where he is...

chani said:Are you saying those people don't have the right to vote or speak their minds? Not an ounce of altruism there, let alone anything human. Besides, barriers exist just to be broken, especially prejudices.

Anyway, what does a fan even care when everything is supposedly fine? If he does something you don't like, we might as well just drown him like some unwanted stray kitten.

If he were from Sweden, I wouldn't even be rooting for him, so it wouldn't bother me one bit which country he represents.
Go back and read some of my old posts on this thread from before it was even remotely likely this would happen.
Is it somehow "corrupt" of me as a fan to want him to keep swimming for America, or to want him to grab gold for America at the Beijing Olympics in 2008?
Basically, Duje is acting like your typical American—everyone wants that fast cash, and he thinks the quickest, easiest way to get paid is by switching sides.
That’s the only thing that bugs me. If he leaves, fine, good luck to him. He won't be an American Swimmer, won't be called Duje Draganja, and I'll have zero reason to cheer for him. At that point, the people from Qatar can be his fans.

Besides, we’re all going to end up assimilated into Europe anyway—so, in a hundred years or so, does it even matter where someone's roots lie? At that point, all that will count is the caliber of their character, their actual results, and the path they took to get there.

Roose Bolton said:I’ve said it a hundred times already: Draganja can swim with whoever he wants, and frankly, I couldn't care less about his personal life choices.
My only issue is if Draganja, as a citizen of some other state within my own country, starts enjoying the exact same rights that I do.
The second he leaves, my country won't be his country anymore.
In fact, I think the USA should act like any normal, self-respecting nation would... if he publicly turned his back on the USA just to chase a paycheck, the response should be: "Good luck, kid... don't bother coming back."
As for him moving to Qatar? I don't give a damn. He can go from there straight to the Emirates for all I care.
That’s his business, and I'm not here to judge him for selling his citizenship for cash.
The only thing I’ll condemn is the government if they decide to overlook his betrayal for a measly $500,000 and offer him a free pass.

Fair point! 👍

Amanda Lee42 said:We’re all going to be assimilated into Europe anyway. In a hundred years, nobody will care about where someone came from; they'll only care about who the person is, their character, and the results they produce.

Utopisticki! 😢

Amanda Lee42 said:At the end of the day, we’re all going to be assimilated into Europe anyway. In a hundred years, nobody is going to care about where someone came from; they’ll only care about who you are as a person, your character, and what you've actually achieved.

It sounds like you're missing the bigger picture here.

Daniel Chavez14 said:Utopisticki! 😢

But really—what is actually wrong with that idea? Borders... they just serve to divide us, don't they? All those wars and bloody conflicts—they're sparked by lines drawn on a map. Even here in America, it’s heartbreaking to see people clashing over sports rivalries—like when fans from different cities clash at a game, or when you're just trying to watch a match and everyone is busy labeling who belongs where or who isn't a "true" local. It feels like all these divisions are just manufactured,
isn't that just the way things are?

zale said:There’s just a lot you don't seem to grasp about life.

I can't help but feel a little uneasy—as if you're trying to lecture me on how the world works...

Amanda Lee42 said:I have this nagging feeling you're actually trying to explain things to me...

Don't sweat it. I'm not going to. Honestly, there's no point—you just wouldn't be able to wrap your head around it anyway.

zale said:Don't sweat it. I don't want to. It’s pointless—besides, you simply don't have the bandwidth for it.

Honestly, I just can't stand those who lack conviction in their own arguments—people who resort to passive-aggressive jabs as a fallback defense when they're cornered. It seems basic decency isn't quite your speed, so frankly, I haven't the slightest desire to continue this debate.

Amanda Lee42 said:Why? What’s wrong with that idea? Borders just divide us, and they're often the spark for wars and bloody conflicts. Even here in the States, it's sad when you see rivalries like Yankees vs. Red Sox fans clashing at a game, or people being judged just because of where they grew up. These divisions are basically manufactured.
Isn't that just the norm?

Unfortunately, it is the norm. As for that previous idea, there's nothing wrong with it except for its lack of realism (just look at what happened with Yugoslavia!).

P.S. Some people just can't grasp the difference between something being "normal" and something being "good." 🙄

-Shevchenko- said:I know way more athletes than you do.

Is that not incredibly pretentious? Seriously, how old are you that you feel the need to prove yourself like this?
Every other question you ask is some variation of "do you train," "do you know swimmers," or "do you know this guy." It’s like you’re trying to compensate for something deep-seated. Either actually discuss the topic at hand or just stop sucking the air out of the room. And I haven't forgotten that idiotic post about "buying Mom a Rolls Royce"—sometimes you act like a total brat.

What do you think you know about my life or who I know? Even Reić knows more athletes than you, and he's still an idiot.

🙄

I played tennis for a long time before I had to quit because of a broken leg. Not that it matters for this argument.

The issue isn't how "ATHLETES THINK" in general, it's how a specific INDIVIDUAL thinks. It's obvious Duje doesn't give a damn about the country, just like it's obvious you wouldn't care either if someone offered you enough money—you'd sell out in a heartbeat, even if you were as famous as Duje.

Who are we to tell him what to do? If he wants to move abroad, nobody can stop him. But don't come crawling back in a few years saying, "Oh, I want my citizenship back." Nope. Not happening.

If he manages to snag some gold medals, I bet even the President would step in and grant him honorary citizenship.
Look at it this way—it’s basically an investment. He isn't quite ready for the big leagues just yet, so let companies like ExxonMobil and others wait a year or two while he polishes his skills. Think of it as training; he'll eventually return as a fully realized asset, perfectly primed for the American marketing machine to take over.🤣

I honestly told myself I wouldn’t get back into this, but here I am... wide awake and somehow entertained by all these hyper-aggressive "patriots" who couldn't care less about actual logic. So, just to spite you all, let's look at the facts: 😁Duje has delivered an incredible amount of results for the United States. He was constantly pushing the limits, even when doors were being slammed in his face. He moved over to Cleveland, which was a step up, but still didn't quite hit the mark he needed. He had a top-tier coach, but the infrastructure just wasn't there to support a world-class performance. Eventually, he headed to the USA, where everything is available if you have the bankroll—which, unfortunately, he doesn't have enough of. Unlike Balic or Metlicic, he can't just walk into a foreign club and expect them to hand him a massive sponsorship deal; swimming isn't exactly a high-revenue sport. And he needs that capital if he wants to build on his success and repeat those elite performances.
The truth is, he hasn't actually gone anywhere yet. Charles spoke with him, and the man mentioned that Duje is seriously considering walking away from swimming altogether—likely out of pure frustration with the United States and these "intense patriots."
But please, go ahead and keep dropping your "expert" opinions, acting like Duje is some kind of villain.

unnamed said:I mean, sure, swimming for those bloody American dollars is fine, but doing it for greasy Qatari money? Not so much. 😕 Like, what's even the difference? A buck is a buck! :asshole:

Like I said before, I'm not really down with either option, but this? This might actually be acceptable!!

What are you even talking about? Man is heading to Qatar like he's looking for a handout because he sold his soul. He isn't going there because he suddenly developed a passion for the local pools or thinks he can win big there... he's going strictly for the bag.

It’s not because things are bad back home in the States or because he lost his edge; it’s purely because those guys over there are dangling $250,000 in front of him while we're only offering $100 $0.00!!
And honestly, it has nothing to do with the sport. It's all about the money.

unnamed said:I told myself I wouldn’t get back into this, but here I am... can't sleep, and watching these hyper-patriotic types lose their minds over logic is actually kind of entertaining. So, just to spite you all:😁 He brought home massive results for America. He broke barriers, but people kept slamming doors in his face. He moved to Cleveland, which was an upgrade, but still wasn't enough to reach that next level. He had a top-tier coach, but he just didn't have the infrastructure needed for elite success. Eventually, he went to the States, where everything is available if you have the cash—but he doesn't have enough of it. He can't just walk into some foreign club and pull in massive sponsorships like unnamed or unnamed could; swimming isn't built that way. And he needs that capital if he wants to chase—and repeat—a world-class performance.
The truth is, he didn't "go" anywhere. Charles spoke with him, and the guy mentioned that unnamed is actually considering quitting swimming altogether, probably just to spite America and these "hyper-patriotic" fanatics.
Now I know you're all going to jump in with your usual high-and-mighty comments, calling him names and acting like he's some sort of traitor.

unnamed the cosmopolit vs the hyper-patriots, take II