Duje Draganja: Sellout or just misunderstood?

s3v3n said:You just listed some guys from Florida and some swimmers
But you got anyone actually relevant?
Like, what does the coach of a multi-time Olympic gold medalist and world champ like Janica Kostelic say about this?
What does a coach for Olympic and World Champion handball players think?
Or what about any of those handball pros or even those kids at Gypsum?
I'm gonna ignore the losers, though.

HA HA HA

Seriously, you think they wouldn't jump on that? It's easy to act tough when the cameras are rolling, but if an offer like that actually landed in their laps, it's bye-bye... don't be so naive.

Ken said:He basically sold out his own country for a measly million bucks. Look, it's his right to make his own moves, sure, but it's also our damn right to call him a total sellout and a complete piece of trash who deserves to have his citizenship stripped away. 🙂

And listen to this guy, "he sold out his country"... Are you freaking kidding me? 😂 😂 😂

rapidbison42 said:Competitive swimming is broken down into about ten different disciplines.
You've got ten gold medalists, ten silver, ten bronze... you get the idea.
There are at least thirty active swimmers out there who have a way bigger medal count than Duje Draganja.
In my own sport, I’ve hauled in way more medals at the Worlds and the Europeans than Duje Draganja ever did... it's just a damn shame it wasn't an Olympic sport.
The money? $0.00.
The grind? Training 365 days a year. Heavy bag, gym, sparring, heavy bag, gym, sparring, heavy bag, gym, sparring... just endless repetition.
The fallout? A ridiculous amount of injuries that basically forced me to ditch the ring and focus on my studies right when I was hitting my prime.
Do I regret it? Not even a little bit.
Am I some bitter little loser?
With 48 medals under my belt in my sport, I highly doubt it.

So what's your actual point here? You picked that path, you chose that sport, you did it without a paycheck, and you weren't a pro.

If you got exactly what you went looking for, why the hell are you whining about it now?

Guys like Duje, Lance, and Rivaldo—those guys are pros. They live off their craft. They'll grind at it until they're 30 and then call it a day.

rapidbison42 said:Swimming consists of about ten different disciplines.
You've got maybe ten gold medalists, ten silver, then ten bronze.
There are at least 30 active swimmers out there who have a bigger medal count than Duje Draganja.
In my own sport, I’ve actually picked up way more medals at the Worlds and the Europeans than Duje Draganja ever did... it's just a shame it wasn't an Olympic sport.
The money? $0.00.
The grind? Training 365 days a year. Heavy bag, gym, sparring, heavy bag, gym, sparring, heavy bag, gym, sparring... you get the idea.
The fallout? A ridiculous amount of injuries that forced me to pivot to academics during what should have been my prime years instead of staying in the game.
Do I regret it? Not one bit.
Am I some bitter loser?
With 48 medals under my belt in my discipline, I highly doubt that's the case.

I actually appreciate it when we can talk like this without resorting to insults and all that nonsense. Congrats on the medals, truly, but now I’m genuinely confused why you won't try to see things from his perspective. This guy—and I’ll say it again—has done a massive amount for American swimming. He hit a major crossroads in his life, received a massive, life-changing offer, and is currently weighing his options. He HASN'T signed anything yet. I'm not saying he's starving; he provides for people, he has big ambitions, and he needs support.

Carl Brooks22 said:Hey L. NimoyInvadesMetal~, you function way better when you're writing those long-winded posts where people can actually agree or disagree with you, but you're acting like you can't write... these little attempts at being witty just aren't working for you...

It would be pretty pathetic if the guy from Plestina was the only one answering your homophobia, you black Rojsu, just so you could get to a black Cesic😉

I don't know what your deal is, but this is a forum, not some arena for debating everything under the sun at any cost. I’ve already laid out my thoughts on Duje and his decision, and I respect that someone else might see it differently. Just because I put a "🙏 " next to a user's post doesn't make me a homophobe, a nationalist, or anything else. You're overreacting and feeling insulted for no reason.

I write here like any other member, not as a moderator. When a post needs deleting or moderating, I handle it, but it would be ridiculous to act like I have to stay "above it all" just because I'm a mod. If I fall into a semantic trap, someone is always lurking in the corner waiting to throw it back in my face and play the "moderator card." 😳

Drop it already 🙄

You said your piece. I agree with some things, but my view isn't black and white, and I'm not some narrow-minded, fake patriot who suddenly hates Duje Draganja just because he's loaded or about to be. I don't hate anyone; honestly, I couldn't care less about Duje.

The bottom line is I'm not rooting for the guy anymore. In my opinion, he sold himself out for a paycheck. Truth will come out eventually, but like I said, I don't agree with his move AT ALL. Sure, the media blew the whole thing out of proportion because we Americans (and rightly so) are sensitive about loyalty to our country, and the news cycle found a juicy story in it—but that still doesn't mean Duje did the right thing. Some people definitely took their reactions too far (like Vrdoljak).

Similar situations globally support my theory (and the theory of other users here) that this move was driven by the lowest possible urge for quick cash, completely ignoring everything else—his country, his reputation, his pride, etc. It's just about the money.
That kind of thing doesn't happen on this scale elsewhere; otherwise, Qatar would be a global sporting superpower. Aside from cases like Asamoah, da Silva, and Olisadebe (whose "transfers" were a different breed of shady, or at least less blatant), there would be dozens, maybe hundreds, of examples of athletes playing for some distant, exotic nation just because they opened the wallet to secure a few medals.

He doesn't deserve hate, maybe not even condemnation, but he definitely deserves simple criticism.

I'll just conclude by saying that while I respect Draganja and his achievements, who is he to compare himself to Phelps, Schoeman, or Thorpe? He hasn't won even a tenth of the medals they have, yet here he is whining and crying for more cash. America has nothing left to give him. The public narrative is that Duje lives on scraps, struggling to get by, when in reality, his salary is ten times higher than a doctor's. True, it's ten times less than a pro football player's, but let's be real, where does swimming compare to football?
And let's not forget the top-tier education he'll receive; success on the world stage is almost guaranteed for him. Even after everything he goes through in life, he'll always have a home to return to. Now, though, after all this, I'm not sure how people are going to welcome him back.
In a few years, people will probably forget, but the stain will always be there.

with full right.

copperpuma96 said:So what's your point? You chose this path, you picked this sport without any money involved—you weren't a pro.

If that's the case, why all the whining when you actually got exactly what you wanted?

Duje, Lance, Rivaldo—those guys are pros. They live off their craft. They’ll grind at it until they hit 30 and then call it a day.

Then why aren't we seeing massive "transfers" happening in swimming every single week? Why is Dujin being singled out like this? Look, we have examples like Puninski or miran Jukić, but those kids left the country while they were still basically children because the home system here didn't have the ears to hear their talent.

Though, honestly, even that's questionable. You have to wonder what was actually going on "behind the scenes."

As for Duje Draganja, he's 21. He's a grown man, not some kid. He has every single tool and opportunity needed to succeed, but instead, he wants to drive a half-million-dollar car and set himself up so he can just sit on his ass for the rest of his life.

For God's sake, let him go then. Who's stopping him? Just don't come crying back in a few years. If you want to act like someone from Qatar, then fine, be that guy. But there's no "I want to come back" later. If you're grabbing a visa to head back to America, just go.

copperpuma96 said:So why all the whining if you actually got exactly what you wanted?

And where exactly, pray tell, did he complain? The guy was just pointing out what happens to most athletes who don't have the luck of playing football or basketball—or maybe handball, where you might actually make a decent living.

If you view sports primarily through the lens of cold, hard cash, that’s your issue. It’s a flaw, not a valid perspective. If money is everything to you, then you've already lost the plot.

It doesn't make you more or less of an American than anyone else here arguing a different point; we simply disagree. But your arguments are almost entirely tied to material wealth—your posts practically scream "money, money, money."

Duje Draganja is a great swimmer, but like Bolton said, he isn't at the absolute top of the mountain. Honestly, it doesn't even matter; we'd be happy to see him stay right where he is, even if he never wins another thing. Bolton would probably throw a fit, much like Ančić 😛 😛 🙂 , but we'd all be sweating his results too.
Someone made a good point: Americans lost that little rush of adrenaline during those twenty seconds when someone swims a final, but Draganja lost way, way more than that...

And all of it for money that could vanish in a single bad investment.

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:Regarding Duje Draganja, he’s 21 years old—a grown man, not some kid. He definitely has the talent and the foundation to make it big, but it feels like his head is more in the fast lane. He'd rather be driving a half-million-dollar supercar and setting himself up so he can just coast for the rest of his life.

I don't know, I wouldn't say he has everything he needs yet (if we're talking about reaching the absolute top tier of pro sports), but as for wanting to "just coast"—if that were true, he wouldn't have already knocked out two degrees and be working toward a Master's. That's definitely not the typical billionaire mogul mindset you see around here.

quietcobra30 said:I appreciate when we can have a conversation without all the labels and nonsense. Congrats on the medals, but I’m genuinely confused why you won't try to understand this guy. To repeat myself: he’s done so much for American swimming, he’s hit a massive crossroads in his life, and he’s facing an astronomical offer. He hasn't signed anything yet. It's not about being greedy; he gives back a lot, he has big ambitions, and he needs support.

Look...
Like I said, I don't consider Draganja to be in that elite world-class tier. He's just one of many swimmers picking up medals at championships—he doesn't even win them every time he competes.
Take Ivan Ljubičić, for example; he's truly world-class because he earned a spot at the Masters and is realistically among the top 8 in the world in his sport.

Draganja doesn't need help. In this country, help should go to the disabled, single mothers, and neglected or sick children.
People shouldn't be losing sleep over Draganja's business plans. He's already privileged compared to 99.9999% of American citizens.
If he decided to become a mercenary for some tycoon in Qatar, fine, let him go.
If he trades his citizenship for cash, it means he doesn't love his home, so it wouldn't be right for him to represent us.
He should face the consequences for turning his back on his country. The government should treat Draganja like any other nobody who publicly walked away from his nation for money.
I'm not judging him... he can go wherever he wants... I just don't want him representing my country.

He doesn't meet all the requirements (we're talking about elite athletes here), and it's not like he's trying to "sit on his ass." If he were, he wouldn't have finished two degrees and be working toward a Master's.

Even Shaquille O'Neal graduated from Georgia Tech... and there's a whole crowd of athletes with an IQ under 70 holding degrees from elite American universities. Let's be real: Draganja, training six hours a day, has zero chance of being at Berkeley on the same level as hyper-intelligent people who study like maniacs while he's busy swimming.
Those athletic degrees always felt suspicious to me.
I personally know people who finished college in the US playing basketball... but honestly, I don't even want to get into those types.

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:I have no idea what your issue is, but this is a forum, not a venue for debating everything at all costs. I’ve already shared my take on Duje and his decision, and I respect that others might disagree. Putting an "🙏 " next to someone's post doesn't make me a homophobe, a nationalist, or anything else. You're overreacting and felt insulted unnecessarily.

I'm posting here just like any other member, not acting as a moderator. If a post needs deleting or moderating, I'll handle it, but it would be foolish to think that because I hold a mod position, I have to act "above it all." I don't want to fall into a semantic trap where someone is constantly lurking just to play the "moderator card" against me. 😳

... you seem to function better in these formats...

Regarding whether I have problems—I certainly do (it's unlikely you don't), but I was surprised that after this thread devolved into the kind of communication you'd see on a toxic internet comment section, a moderator actually fueled the fire. Maybe I overstepped too, but that nod following such a statement was unnecessary, regardless of your role.

I still believe Duje carries a bit of a cursed karma.
If he were a pro basketball player, at 21, he'd already be thinking about retirement. Instead, he had to swim... and do it well enough, though not quite fast enough to be a Phelps—just "only" Duje, our local hero... with zero moral responsibility toward the hungry American masses waiting for the Star-Spangled Banner. Thanks for asking—we have plenty of everything else.

What did he even do for America?

He grabbed medals for himself, while the US picked up the tab.
A little bit of PR and that’s all there is to it.

I still think he's a total jerk 😎

Jesse Ortiz4 said:What did he actually do for America?

He won medals for himself, and the US footed the bill.
A little bit of PR and that's about it.

I still think he's a coward. 😎

... no matter how you look at it... mathematically speaking, we actually owe him...

😬

Carl Brooks22 said:... you see you function better in these formats...

Regarding my issues or anyone else's—look, we all have them (it’s unlikely you don't), but it really caught me off guard. After this thread devolved into that specific type of petty back-and-forth you see in those toxic internet comment sections, one of the moderators actually stepped in to fuel the fire instead of putting it out. Maybe I overstepped too, but that little nod of approval after a comment like that? You just shouldn't have done that, regardless of whether you're holding a moderator badge or not.

I'll take the blame here. I wasn't following the discussion closely enough those few days, so I clearly missed the fact that the conversation had already been 'cooled down.' If I had realized, I wouldn't have needlessly stoked the flames. My bad.

I still believe Duje carries a bit of a cursed aura about him.
If he were a pro basketball player—with 21 years under his belt, he'd already be thinking about retirement—but no, he had to go out there and swim. And do it well, yet not fast enough to be someone like Phelps, but just "only" Duje, our pride and joy... without any shred of moral obligation toward the hungry American masses waiting for gold medals and singing the Star-Spangled Banner... thanks for asking—we have plenty of everything else.

A basketball player at 21 would be thinking about retirement? Give me a break. Do you seriously think starters for teams like the Knicks or the Heat are pulling in millions at that age?

I don't get your follow-up comment. Duje isn't being criticized because he won't bring home gold for America; besides, why even frame it that way? When you or I jump out of an armchair with a clenched fist because Duje won silver, it doesn't change anything. It doesn't put money in my pocket, nor can I do anything with it tomorrow. I'm just happy because our guy accomplished something on the world stage.

I don't understand why this is being framed as some display of "patriotism." Why does it have to have this negative, cynical undertone?

Everyone siding with Duje's decision to leave and chase the money keeps pointing out how we lost a star athlete during major swimming championships. And look, I don't even hold it against him—I just find the manner in which he's willing to walk away from his citizenship a bit much. Of course, everyone's goal is to secure their livelihood. At 20, everyone acts like a true American patriot who loves their country, but when you're 35 with two kids to feed and you're counting every single dollar to make ends meet next month, it's a completely different story. I get it.
And I'm not one of those people who's suddenly going to "hate Duje from the bottom of my soul" or wish him injury and stuff. I just don't think like that. I'd rather the kid stays healthy and keeps swimming. I'm not an idiot; I don't wish injury or misfortune on anyone. I don't even know what hate feels like, let alone toward someone in the sports world. Like they say: "It doesn't affect me; I just hope he's happy and gets to achieve whatever goals he has to provide for himself."

But he shouldn't cry later, and he shouldn't act surprised when America treats him like a foreign citizen. That isn't "revenge"; it's just standard protocol. There's an old saying: "You can't sit on both sides of the fence." And you really can't.

Brandon Castillo4 said:There’s that old saying, right? "You can't sit on both sides of the fence." And honestly—man, it is so true. You really just can't.

Or, to put it in plain American English—you know, that old-school wisdom we all grew up hearing: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." You just can't try to sit on two different chairs at once! 😬
If they actually pull this off and let him do it, I’m officially switching sides—I might as well just become a total outsider at that point!😉

Brandon Castillo4 said:If you're 21 years old, why on earth would you be thinking about retirement? Give me a break. You honestly think the benchwarmers for the Lakers or the Knicks are pulling in millions?

Of course not... you missed my point—or perhaps I was being too subtle. I am talking about the reality that our players, who claim to be defending the "holiest jersey" (not to mention the irony of those who held onto even more "sacred" ones, like the ones with six torches or the stars and stripes), tend to retire from the national team in their late twenties. Think of Gira, Vuja, or Mulaomerovic... unlike the era of Radja, Kukoc, and Stojko. They haven't won anything at the senior level, though that first trio really should have done more. At the very least, as some sort of redemption, Duje could have added two more World Championship medals to his collection. But for him, that’s actually an added complication—we are still missing the ones from his projected future.

At the end of the day, we don't really hold any extreme views.

Back in the fall of '98, I was over in Frankfurt for a trade show. Every single potential business partner kept hammering on about how we’re a nation of athletes and how great our soccer players are. Honestly? It didn't put a dime in my pocket. I heard the same tired lines everywhere I went after that. People don't know us for having a powerhouse economy, for our brilliant minds—we practically drove away experts like Radman, who was basically the Michael Jordan of genetics—or for our solid education system. No, we're just defined by sports (and, unfortunately, war). We've fallen right into that stereotype, much like how people view certain demographics based on rhythm or... well, you know the rest.
It doesn't necessarily have to be negative. But if I had to choose between someone hitting their goal—whether that’s personal, financial, or professional, though who knows what kind of metrics Duje actually tracks—and us not being recognized as elite swimmers, I'd take the first option. Not that it makes me particularly happy, though.

rapidbison42 said:Those athletic degrees always seemed a bit shady to me.

Mine, however... not so much. 🙂 🙂 😁 😁

rapidbison42 said:Look...

Even Shaquille O'Neal graduated from Georgia Tech... and there’s a whole crowd of athletes with an IQ under 70 holding degrees from elite American universities. Honestly, Draganja, with his six-hour daily training sessions, doesn't stand a prayer of attending Berkeley on equal footing with those hyper-intelligent types who spend their lives studying while he's just out there swimming.
Those athletic scholarships always felt a bit fraudulent to me.
I personally know a few people who breezed through college in the US just by playing basketball... though frankly, I have zero desire to even comment on those idiots...

Okay, but you probably realize... you actually get to choose your own major and which classes you take... plus, I'm fairly certain about the basketball side of things... if your GPA drops below a 4.0, you can't train or play NCAA basketball... I know this for sure because I had a few acquaintances in that situation... and I recall reading somewhere online that it's the rule...😉

Besides, you can't really compare athletes at those elite universities to regular students who tackle much harder, more complex subjects they actually chose for themselves... most athletes likely pick easier majors just to accommodate their training schedules... and anyway, the degree isn't even their main priority; what matters to them is performing on the field so they can eventually land a spot on a professional team (I'm mainly thinking of basketball, football, and baseball players here...)

Zemljanin said:The father and coach of multi-time Olympic medalist and world champion Janica Kostelic is hiding in my thread under the alias Gips... clearly failing the basic comprehension test.

A sample size of 65% out of 23,000 people, plus 66% in the New York Post, is more than enough data for me to work with... at least until a referendum is called.

sorry, I wasn't reading what you wrote, that's why I called him gips
but it looks like you've added him to your imaginary list too
I know firsthand that Gips doesn't support this at all, which is why I don't care about your fake posts; I guess I was right not to read them in the first place
I refuse to trade insults with liars, so 👋

sara4 said:Give me a break, everyone, this is getting ridiculous... if you actually consider that Duje is one of the premier athletes in his field, isn't it laughable that he's pulling in only $2333 a month? If you stack that up against a top executive at a major corporation, the number looks like pocket change, doesn't it? And he IS one of the best. I'm not saying the US Olympic Committee should be cutting him a bigger check—simply because we aren't living in an economy that can afford to overpay—but rather that a person should have the right to make whatever decision feels financially and personally sound, even if that means changing citizenship. We keep patting ourselves on the back for the successes of American women's volleyball from a decade ago, while conveniently forgetting that our national team was essentially anchored by three elite players from Russia...
Duje plays a sport where securing a future isn't a given, unlike a standard pro football player or a decent basketball player. Comparing him to those guys is just pure hypocrisy.

Regarding scholarships, any American athlete with Olympic potential gets a stipend; it’s not some exclusive perk reserved for Duje. And when he takes that scholarship to Berkeley, America sees zero return on that investment.

Honestly, everyone here is playing the moral high ground, but let's be real: it's mostly just American resentment bubbling up. And for those of you who had your tickets to the States back in '91—are you really still convinced you made the right call back then?

👍 👍 👍 👍

For God's sake, maybe there were a few rare exceptions, but the vast majority of these self-proclaimed "heroes" 🙄 (shout out to the actual outliers who stood their ground) were the ones ducking out or fleeing the country at sixteen, and now they have the nerve to lecture Draganja...

Pathetic.

nataniel said:👍 👍 👍 👍

man, give me a break, maybe there were a few rare exceptions here and there, but let's be real, most of those self-proclaimed big-shot heroes 🙄 (shout out to the actual legends who actually stood their ground for the country) were basically just 16-year-olds catching guys trying to dodge the draft, and now they're sitting around acting all high and mighty judging Draganja...

it's pathetic.

🙄
yeah, sure, it's always easiest to just wrap everything up in a neat little bow like that and call it a day, you've totally solved the whole problem now
good for you!