Duje Draganja: Sellout or just misunderstood?

-Shevchenko- said::LOL:

I might just head over to Beijing to become a triathlon champion. It’ll be a piece of cake.

Listen, kid, you haven't got a clue.

The man finally showed up. He's easily in the top five most clueless people on this entire board...🙄

placidcanyon16 said:Honestly, I’d much rather have a little more breathing room in my own pocket and pay less in taxes than be stuck subsidizing some unnamed guy.

I mean, who wouldn't?!
And besides, who knows what else we're footing the bill for without even realizing it!? 😁

First off, let me get this straight so there’s no confusion: NO, if I were in the shoes of that unnamed athlete—or anyone else at that elite level—I would NEVER trade my citizenship for a paycheck. I mean, the guy already lives a lifestyle most people can only dream about, so the fact that he’s being so arrogant that he’d actually ditch his own country just to squeeze out more cash... well, that says everything you need to know about his character. And don't even get me started on those "it's just professionalism" excuses. That logic is total garbage! Sure, clubs can be traded, but citizenship isn't some commodity you haggle over in sports, dammit. You guys really need to stop blurring the lines between athletics and every other job out there. It’s not the same thing as being some anonymous guy working as an auto mechanic, a construction worker, or a scientist... when you're a public figure and a world-class superstar, it's different! People live and breathe with athletes—they mourn their losses and celebrate their wins right alongside them, cheering them on to greatness... and then the athlete just flips the script and changes their nationality? 🙄 Honestly, excuse me, you "non-fans," if we take it upon ourselves to trash talk the unnamed guy and people like him. If it doesn't happen in other walks of life, in the world of sports, citizenship should be sacred—something you just don't mess with. If someone decides to break that code, well, they should deal with the fallout (like having their car torched).
By your logic, the medal count for the next Olympics would look something like this: USA, Bahrain 😲 followed by maybe Germany, UK, Australia, France, and whatever other wealthy countries can afford to buy themselves some athletes 🙄.

placidcanyon16 said:As far as us Americans are concerned, we might come back from the Olympics with maybe one fewer medal, and that’s it. Big deal. I don't live my life based on medals.

And man, your line of thinking—and the thinking of a few others—is just top-tier. You're basically questioning the whole concept of what a "fan" even is 🙄.
Also, one more thing: have you never heard that athletes are the absolute best ambassadors for their country? See, in a weird way, you *do* live off those medals, even if it's just a tiny bit (even if you claim you don't care from a fan's perspective). I'm saying: just a tiny bit.

As for the unnamed guy himself—unless he’s already denied the reporters—as far as I'm concerned, he's a total coward for even considering this kind of stuff and, from what I hear, actually trying to turn a profit off it 🙂

Daniel Chavez14 said:Well, who wouldn't!
And besides—who knows who else you’re footing the bill for via scholarships and sponsorships without even realizing it!? 😁

First, you read all this trash about how people are calling the unnamed guy names—calling him a coward, a loser, and all sorts of insults—just because he actually had the nerve to think he could swim for Bahrain. Now, when it turns out his Master's degree is going to be paid for out of our pockets... well, those same cowards and losers will be the ones sitting in the cabinet, along with the unnamed officials and everyone else who pulled the strings. When they say Americans are never satisfied, they're actually right...😛

Honestly, I’m with you on the idea that there should be a rule against switching flags during competition. When athletes do that, the whole point of representing your country just evaporates. But since that kind of ban isn't actually in place, it’d be pretty foolish for an athlete not to take advantage of the opportunity when it hits them.

Gary Peterson84 said:If citizenship isn't considered sacred in other areas of life, it certainly is in sports—something you just don't touch or question.

As a former elite athlete, let me tell you this: your idea that athletes are somehow fundamentally different from everyone else... it’s just an unrealistic fantasy. An athlete's "sacred duty" is what they build for themselves—not their nationality. If I were born in a country where people would burn my car down just because I chose a path to secure my financial future while I'm still physically capable, believe me, I wouldn't feel any pride representing such savages or promoting them. To me, saying "The National Team (and thus, citizenship) is sacred" is nothing more than a cheap cliché.

Quote:Madge says:

Gary Peterson84 says: And your reasoning (along with a few others) is top-tier. You’re actually questioning the very concept of being a "fan."🙄. One more thing: haven't you ever heard that athletes are the best promoters for their country? Look, in some strange way, you still live off medals to a small degree (if you don't care about them from a fan's perspective). I mean: a small degree.

They promote us, sure, and I had my share of exposure—but I wouldn't say I live off medals even slightly. Because if those medals brought me anything at all, they’re going to take it right out of my gross pay to fund a scholarship... and not even an undergrad one, but grad school.

placidcanyon16 said:Let’s be real here—it isn't that Americans are going to forget Duje Draganja left to swim for Bahrain. It’s actually about the fact that he went out there and earned a million bucks. Honestly, if my neighbor’s cow is thriving while mine just kicked the bucket, who cares? Let them have their luck. Look, Ivanisevic was always one of us; he played his heart out wearing our colors and everything. But if you actually bothered to read that article in the Globe about what those people in Miami did to him with that building of his, you’d see why things are the way they are. People act like he abandoned the US to play tennis for Bahrain, but that's not the issue. We don't give a damn that Duje is leaving the States—we're just looking at the massive payday he's walking away with.

Wrong. Just plain wrong.
Look, personally—and I think most Americans would agree on this—nobody actually has a problem with athletes making big money. It’s not about being jealous. You just have to look at the math. Just take a look at what the starters for the Atlanta Braves or the Los Angeles Lakers pull in compared to what they actually bring to the table. Seriously, look at how they performed during that last big matchup at Yankee Stadium. Was it even worth it? Is that ratio of effort versus paycheck even remotely sane? Not even close.
You've got a point about Ivanisevic. Sure, he wasn't exactly paying his taxes to the US government, but that’s beside the point. At the end of the day, he was still one of ours.

Look, there’s a massive difference between just working in another country and actually switching the flag you compete under. It’s two completely different things. Personally, I don't have an issue with it—take someone like little Miran Jukic, for example. If she wants to swim for Austria, that’s her business. It doesn't bother me at all.
She left for Austria when she was still just a kid because they offered her much better terms—a guaranteed spot on the national team and all that. If I remember correctly, she actually lived in Austria even before she started taking swimming seriously. Look, the girl is an American by heritage, and I respect that, but at the end of the day, she’s an Austrian woman now. Period.

So, Duje lives out here in the States now because he’s finishing up his studies. But let’s be real—he’s an American through and through at heart. Back home, the government provided him with a scholarship, which gave him that initial leg up to really make a name for himself, just like they do for the other top athletes. It wasn't like they handed him a fortune on a silver platter, but they did their part to get the ball rolling. Now, he's grinding away at a top-tier university—something he earned entirely on his own merit—and honestly, his stats in his sport are looking better than most. He’s killing it.
So, what’s even the issue here? Why does he absolutely have to pull in millions from swimming? Why can't the guy just take some pride in his sport and settle for making, say, three times what an American physician or a PhD earns? Why does it always have to be a hundred times more? Look, it's not that I'm bothered by the idea of him actually having money in his bank account. It's not about the wealth itself. What really gets under my skin is seeing this blatant, raw human greed being put on full display right here in front of us. It's just greedy.

If someone approached me and said, "Hey, come work in the States, I’ve got a job waiting for you," I’d probably pack my bags and go. No question. But if that same person told me, "Change your citizenship to American and just forget about your home country entirely," my answer would be a flat-out NO. Never. Honestly, I’d much rather do something like Ivanisevic did—eventually head back home and actually Invest in the people and the country here. That's where the real value is.

Look, you called my comparison infantile, but you didn't actually bother to explain why. So, fine, I’ll give you that—I agree with you on that point. Of course the numbers these soccer players pull in are absolutely insane, and honestly, no, not every athlete should be making that kind of money. It's ridiculous. But we live in the world we live in. Some athletes are pulling in numbers that are basically unimaginable, while others—people who are objectively better and more successful than most of those soccer players making bank—are left fighting for scraps. My point isn't that everyone deserves a massive payday. It's that when some people are hitting the jackpot and others aren't, Draganja has every right to demand more for himself. It's simple math.

Look, I didn't mean to offend you, but honestly? It feels a bit pointless to argue this by using that whole "pro athletes make millions, so why shouldn't Duje?" logic. That's just not how this works.

Look, this isn't about Duje Draganja or any specific country. It’s a much bigger picture than that. If you want to know why someone like Beckham is a massive global superstar while Phelps—who is an absolute phenomenon and an American icon at that—doesn't carry that same level of fame, there's a deeper reason behind it. It comes down to the sport itself. Swimming just doesn't have that kind of cultural gravity. It’s the same story with weightlifting, bodybuilding, track and field, or rowing. You can be the greatest to ever do it, but if the sport doesn't have that mainstream pull, you aren't going to see those levels of recognition. And let's be real, people aren't switching their citizenship every other day just to follow a different athlete.

Duje is a world-class guy, and that's the level he measures himself against. Being better than 99.9% of his American peers doesn't mean much to him. It’s like the old saying—first in the village, last in the city... well, Duje wants to be first in the city.

But why do you keep insisting that we all just have to deal with it? You're acting like Duje just said "good morning" when he actually said "I'm moving to Bahrain" (even though he hasn't officially said anything yet). Look at that Kenyan runner I mentioned before who changed his name to Saiful Saaeed Shaheen to compete for Qatar for a million bucks plus bonuses. Do you honestly think his fellow Kenyans just gave him a pass?

No, they didn't. Heck, even in races, they have tactics to slow him down—strictly within the rules, obviously—like controlling how far ahead or behind he stays, or timing when to sprint. He’s a massive thorn in their side, just like Duje will be to us if he decides to go swim for Bahrain.

Sorry, but that’s just the reality of it. And the fact that this bothers us doesn't make us bad people or a bad nation.

placidcanyon16 said:As a former elite athlete, let me set you straight: this idea that athletes are somehow fundamentally different from everyone else is just pure delusion on your part. For an athlete, what matters is the standard they set for themselves, not whatever flag happens to be on their sleeve. Honestly, if I were born in a country where people wanted to burn down my car just because I made a smart choice to secure my financial future while I was still physically capable, I wouldn't feel a shred of pride representing that place. I certainly wouldn't want to be the face of such savages. To me, saying "representing your country is sacred" is nothing more than a cheap, empty cliché.

You’re hiding behind all this nonsense about "hard work," how much conditions matter, and how the national team doesn't mean anything. If that were true, why didn't someone like Robert Kovac play for Elf instead? He was born there, raised there, and they were calling his name—yet he practically walked on foot (!) back to the States just to play for the chance to wear the national jersey.

It’s the same story with Klasnic, Prs, N. Kovac, and Simunic. It applies to tons of other athletes outside of soccer too, people who actually find honor and genuine satisfaction in playing for their country.

If the national team means nothing to these players, then why the hell are they even playing? They aren't getting a regular salary there; they aren't earning anything unless they hit those performance bonuses. Look at the pattern: we beat Bulgaria or grind out a 1-1 against Brazil, and then suddenly, miraculously, we have a total meltdown against Malta right when Markovic promises a bunch of bonuses for the current cycle.
But we don't beat Malta? No bonus. Simple as that.

Look, this is clearly just your personal take. There are plenty of us who actually view representing our nation as something sacred—people who save every single dollar and put aside their grocery money just so they can afford a trip to Germany to cheer on the team.

I'm not just talking about soccer here; I'm talking about a general attitude toward your own country. Don't try to tell me capitalism has become so extreme that nobody gives a damn about anything anymore except the bottom line.

placidcanyon16 said:Look, speaking as someone who used to be a top-tier athlete myself, I’ve gotta tell you—this idea that athletes are somehow fundamentally different from everyone else? Honestly, it’s just a totally unrealistic way to look at things. To an athlete, what really matters is the legacy you build for yourself through hard work, not what's printed on your passport. And if I were born in a country where people would literally burn down a car just because I chose to make moves for my own future—you know, making sure I'm financially set while I'm still physically able to compete—believe me, I wouldn't feel even a shred of pride representing those kinds of savages. Representing a nation isn't some sacred thing if the culture is acting like that. That whole "representing your country is sacred" line is nothing more than a tired old cliché.

I'm telling you again—sure, you can play around with club transfers (though sometimes even that doesn't sit right with people; take the Kranjcar situation, but that’s a whole other rabbit hole), deal with sponsors, or chase after every little endorsement to Earn money in the pro sports world, but citizenship? That's sacred. It's not for sale. We just don't see eye to eye on that, period.👋 .
And honestly, I can't convince you otherwise if you, as a "top-tier athlete," haven't already figured that out.
Oh, and one more thing—of course, I'm not saying I condone anyone burning down a car today or tomorrow, but there will always be those people who take sports and fandom way too seriously and way too personally.

Gary Peterson84 said:Look, I’m telling you again: sure, you can trade players, cut deals with sponsors, or deal with whatever other nonsense comes up to Earn money in the pro sports world—even if it doesn't always work out for everyone, like the Kranjcar situation, but that's a whole different conversation—but citizenship? That's sacred. It's not some commodity you put up for sale. We aren't going to see eye to eye on that, period.👋 .
If you haven't figured that out yet, despite being labeled a "top-tier athlete," then there's nothing I can say to change your mind.
And one more thing: obviously, I'm not saying it's okay if someone goes out and torches a car tomorrow, but there will always be people who take sports and fandom way too seriously and make it their entire identity.

I couldn't agree more. 👍

Leonard Nimoy~ said:You’re basically hiding behind all this talk about "hard work" and how much the conditions matter, or acting like playing for the national team doesn't even mean anything. But then—look at someone like Robert Kovac—he wasn't even playing for the ELF (even though he was born there, grew up there, and everyone called him one of their own), yet he practically walked (!) all the way back to America just because he was so stoked to wear the jersey with the American crest.

The same goes for Klasnic, Prs, N. Kovac, and Simunic. Honestly, it applies to tons of other athletes too—not just soccer players—where representing your home country is a huge point of pride and pure joy.

If the national team doesn't actually mean anything to these athletes, then why on earth do they play for it at all? I mean, they aren't getting a steady paycheck there; they aren't really earning anything besides those performance bonuses. Like, look at when the US beat Bulgaria or fought to a 1-1 draw against Brazil, but then—get this—had an absolute disaster against Malta. It's crazy, but right THEN, Markovic promised big bonuses for the current cycle.
But since they didn't beat Malta, guess what? No bonus!

I honestly think this is just your specific take on things, and there are way more of us out there who truly view the national team as something sacred—people who save every single dollar for six months straight and set aside their grocery money just so they can fly over to Germany to cheer on the squad.

And hey, I'm not just talking about soccer here; I'm talking about your general attitude toward your OWN country. You aren't seriously trying to tell me that capitalism has gotten so extreme that nobody cares about anything anymore except cold, hard cash, right?

Man, I am totally with you on this one. 🙏

Brandon Castillo4~ said:Wrong, wrong, and dead wrong.
Personally—and I think most Americans would agree—it’s not about being jealous of athletes making bank. Just look at what the starters for the Atlanta Braves and the LA Lakers pull in compared to what they actually put on display... like that recent blowout at Yankee Stadium. Is that a fair ratio of work performed vs. money earned? Not even close.

It isn't a fair ratio, I'll give you that, but I honestly don't see how that connects to Americans being "jealous." If you're telling me that the majority of Americans who follow sports haven't commented on a game by saying, "Man, look at those ridiculous salaries and the cars they drive, when they play like crap—they don't deserve half of that!" or some other variation of that sentiment... then I clearly don't live in the same country as you.

Brandon Castillo4~ said:You have a point regarding Ivanisevic—he wasn't exactly paying his taxes to the US, but that's beside the point; he was still one of ours.

Well, our dear Ivanisevic got a raw deal when he tried to invest back home after serving as our biggest promoter right when the US needed it most.

Brandon Castillo4~ said:There is a massive difference between working in another country and switching the flag you compete under. For instance, it doesn't bother me at all that little miran Jukic swims for Austria.

As for Duje, he lives here—in the States—because he's a student. But he's American. And the US provided him with a scholarship, giving him (like everyone else) the chance to break through. It wasn't a massive amount, but they did what they could. Now he's at a fantastic university he earned for himself, putting up above-average numbers in his sport.

The US gave him that scholarship for what he provided to the country: competing in the Olympics. Every potential Olympian gets a grant. Do you really think he could have made it on just $4333 a month? Do you think Draganja would be at the level he is today if he hadn't gone to the States to train with an American coach—the very reason he wants to pursue his Master's (so he can keep training with him)? There are plenty of "ifs" involved, but I find it hard to swallow the claim that the US "made" him or that he owes his entire future to this country because of it. I might be biased due to personal reasons, but knowing how things actually work, I think my view is pretty close to objective reality.

Brandon Castillo4~ said:What's the issue? Why does he need to earn a million dollars from swimming? Why can't he just be proud and earn maybe three times what American doctors or scientists make? Why does it have to be a hundred times more? Again, it's not that it bothers me that he WILL have money—it's that it exposes the sheer greed people have for cash.

Maybe he's comparing himself to American doctors and scientists, which is why he wants to earn 3x their salary. 😁

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:If someone told me, "Hey, come work in the States, I've got a job for you," I’d probably take it—but if they said, "Change your citizenship to American and forget about the US," my answer would be—NEVER. At most, much like Ivaniševic mentioned, I’d return to the States and actually uložiti here, into THESE PEOPLE and this country.

Hey, you're forgetting one thing... it's not just changing citizenship, it's changing citizenship for $1,000,000! 😁

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:Swimming just doesn't have that kind of status. But then again, neither does weightlifting, rowing, track and field, or crew... people aren't switching nationalities every single day over those.

Obviously it doesn't have that status, but that's exactly why it matters—when you're handed an opportunity to make massive money in a sport that lacks that football-level fame, you really have to weigh whether to pass up the chance or take it, even if the consequence is changing your citizenship.

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:But why do you keep insisting that we all just deal with it? It's like Duje just said "good morning" instead of "I'm moving to Bahrain"—even though he hasn't actually said ANYTHING yet.

On one hand, because I don't think anyone deserves to be met with such primitive insults and garbage—and on the other, because I bet 90% of the people throwing those insults would do the exact same thing in a similar situation, and then justify it by saying: "Well, I'm not an athlete, I'm just an auto mechanic."

placidcanyon16, look, we just don't see eye to eye on this. We have different takes on the whole situation, and let me be crystal clear: my stance isn't coming from some petty jealousy or a "why does he get to have that and I don't" mindset. Not even close. Honestly, I hope the guy always has everything he needs, but changing his citizenship and standing there listening to a different national anthem while he climbs onto that podium? I can't wrap my head around it, I won't justify it, and I'm certainly not going to support it.

If he wants to go, then let him go—I've said that before. If I ran into him on the street, I wouldn't insult him, spit at him, or roll my eyes, but that doesn't mean I approve of what he's doing 😉.

The whole point of this forum is to exchange ideas; we aren't all required to view things through the exact same lens.

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:You’re hiding behind all this talk about "hard work," how conditions are everything, or how playing for the national team doesn't actually mean anything. If that's true, why did someone like Robert Kovač practically walk (!) through the door to play for the US—even though he was born and raised elsewhere and they were calling for him there—just because he was so thrilled to wear the American flag on his jersey?

The same goes for Klasnić, Prš, N. kovač, and Šimunić. It applies to plenty of other athletes (not just soccer players) for whom representing their country is an honor and a privilege, isn't it?

If the national team means nothing to these athletes, then why do they even show up? They aren't getting a salary there; they aren't making money unless they hit those performance bonuses. For instance, look at when the US beat Bulgaria or played Brazil to a 1-1 draw, yet somehow managed a massive embarrassment against Malta—it’s a miracle, really—but right THEN, Marković promised bonuses for the current cycle.
But they didn't beat Malta, so no bonus!

I think this is just your specific take on things. There are many more of us who truly view the national team as sacred—people who save every single dollar for six months and set aside their grocery money just so they can fly over to Germany to cheer on our team.

I'm not just talking about soccer here; I'm talking about a general attitude toward your OWN country. Don't tell me capitalism has become so extreme that nobody cares about anything anymore except the bottom line.

Please, don't put words in my mouth. I never said the national team was NOTHING; I said the phrase "The national team is sacred" is a cliché. My family and I are sacred—everything else is just ranked by priority. Putting the national team in the same bucket as my family and my life is a bit too much, honestly. So, I won't even bother addressing the part of your post where you ask why athletes answer the call to play for the team.

And since you want to go there, let me add one more thing... in some sports, the federation has the right to ban a player from playing for their club if they fail to report to the national team without a valid excuse (like a serious injury or whatever). So, it's not like everyone is sprinting to the national team because it's "sacred." You have to make a living somehow.

My stance on my country is this: home is always the best place to be. I always say I'm an American with pride (unless after our fans pull some nonsense like they did in Malta or similar stupidity). It’s always been hard for me having to leave my hometown for long stretches to go to another country. But the moment I decide that America isn't providing what I need on any level—and I'm not just talking about money—there is nothing that would keep me here if the reason to leave is strong enough to get me another citizenship if the opportunity arises. I'm not going to reach my age and suddenly feel like an Austrian just because I picked up Austrian citizenship. But if Austria provides what I want out of my life, then I think that should be the only thing considered "sacred."

L. NimoyInvadesMetal~ said:Sarah, we just don't see eye to eye here—we have different takes on this whole situation. And let me be crystal clear: my position isn't coming from some petty jealousy over "what Duje gets and I don't." Not even close. I truly hope the guy always finds success, but changing his citizenship and standing there listening to another anthem while stepping onto the podium... I can't understand it, I won't justify it, and I certainly won't support it.

If he wants to go, fine—let him go, like I said before. If I run into him on the street, I'm definitely not going to insult him, spit on him, or roll my eyes... but that just means I'm not a jerk, it doesn't mean I condone what he's doing 😉.

The whole point of this forum is to exchange opinions; we don't all have to view things through the same lens.

Look, I can see you're a decent person and we simply differ on whether or not to excuse him. In reality, I was just raising my voice against those people throwing around insults without any actual arguments or reasoning behind them. 👋

placidcanyon16 said:...

Honestly, I feel like you’d probably sell out your own family if the price was right—it seems like money is basically your one and only true religion.👋

Gary Peterson84 said:Personally, I think you’d sell out your own family if the price was right—it seems like money is the only thing you actually worship.👋

Who knows? For all I know, we might even be related... honestly, for enough cash, I might just consider it too. Here's one for you: 👋

Gary Peterson84 said:If you ask me, you’d probably sell out your own family if the price was right. It seems like money is the only thing you actually worship.👋

Meanwhile, you'd give your very last cent just to support America, wouldn't you? 👋

placidcanyon16 said:My family and I are sacred; everything else is just secondary.

Found my better half😁 😁

skeptik said:So you’d basically hand over your last dime for America, right? 👋

Look, let's say there was an actual war—God forbid!—I’d honestly give my life if I had to.👋.
But that's totally missing the point here. It isn't about Duje Draganja-prodana, me, or anyone else—America isn't asking for sacrifices like that, and I'm not even mad at him for not "giving his last cent" to the country. What really gets under my skin is how he treats America and Americans like they're just some bargaining chip in a deal.
Honestly, forget Duje Draganja-prodana—what bugs me way more are people like you who jump to defend his (potential) decisions.