Duje Draganja: Sellout or just misunderstood?

An earthling said:I finally found my soulmate😁 😁

Hopefully... a BETTER half. 😁 👋

Gary Peterson84 said:Dammit, enough with the Draganja nonsense—I’m honestly getting sick of people like you who actually back his (potential) decision.

Why? Because apparently we can't all just follow your lead and dedicate this entire thread to trashing Draganja? You're quite the democrat, aren't you...👋

Gary Peterson84 said:Honestly, enough with the Duje Draganja drama. It’s getting annoying dealing with people like you who are actually backing his (potential) decision.

I wouldn't say we're exactly "backing" him; it's more about understanding where he's coming from and being tolerant.

Look, if someone views America as their ultimate sacred cause, they obviously won't make a move like this. And honestly, good for them. But for some people, their "sacred" priority is something else entirely—maybe it's family, a specific athletic achievement, money, or some lofty set of ideals. That doesn't automatically make them bad people.

placidcanyon16 said:Why? Because we can't all just get together—with you leading the charge—and dedicate an entire thread to trashing Draganja? You’re such a freaking democrat. 👋

Gosh🙄, did you seriously miss the part where I said: "Look, we just don't agree, period." Seriously, let me spell it out: everyone is entitled to their own opinion—as long as they aren't being jerks about it—and honestly, that's what this whole forum is for, for crying out loud. Happy now?
I mean, maybe I didn't phrase it perfectly, but I feel like you were practically itching to misinterpret me! If you want to keep backing Draganja, go ahead, nobody's stopping you👋 😁 .
By the way, just curious: how do you interpret seeing athletes break down in tears when their national anthem plays?
And what's your take on how a massive chunk of the athletes competing represent places like Bahrain or similar nations—basically just trading citizenship for a shot at glory? It's not like everyone is doing it because they're blooming with patriotism or because they're all filthy rich.
Back when you were performing as a "top-tier athlete," did you actually feel any sense of duty toward the fans who showed up to cheer you on (like, even just giving them a little wave)?

placidcanyon16 said:Hopefully, the second half is better. 😁 👋

😁

Well, that depends on how you answer one specific question. It's your turn now.
So, placidcanyon16, which half of a Kinder bar (or maybe some peanut butter) do you prefer—the light or the dark?😎 😁

placidcanyon16 said:Look, please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said the national team is NOTHING; I just said the whole phrase "The national team is sacred" is nothing but a tired cliché. My family and my own life are what's actually sacred to me—everything else falls further down the priority list. Trying to lump the national team into the same category as my family and my actual life is honestly a bit much. So, I’m not even going to address the part of your post where you ask why athletes respond to the call-up in the first place.

.

I didn't mean to twist your words, and if I did, my apologies 😁.

But don't do it to me either! I never claimed that America comes before my family or that I’d ever (one day) take the words "for America" out of my kids' mouths, because that's just fanaticism, and it's not something any sane person would do.
In my view, a healthy relationship with your country means you don't put your allegiance up for sale.

Sure, Draganja could just post an ad online saying "who wants more, I'm coming." That was a little sarcasm, but that's not really the point. 😉


Regarding the health of this thread and the discussion itself, I’d ask the other participants to please stay away from debating who is the "better" American or throwing insults on any basis. Thanks.

Carl Brooks22 said:😁

Well, to address that properly, we need to answer one specific question first. It’s your turn...
So, placidcanyon16—which half of a Reese's Cup (or maybe just plain chocolate) do you prefer? The milk chocolate or the dark? 😎 😁

😢 I'm eating Nutella! 😎 😎

Gary Peterson84 said:By the way—just curious: how do you interpret athletes breaking down in tears when they hear their national anthem playing?

I’ll answer that with a question: why are you so convinced that athletes cry during a medal ceremony specifically because of the melody of an anthem?? 😕

Gary Peterson84 said:How do you explain the fact that a massive chunk of athletes compete for places like Bahrain or similar countries—basically just trading citizenship for status? It's not like everyone is doing it because they're suddenly showered in roses or because they're all millionaires.

Everyone has different priorities. Like someone else already pointed out—for some, it's family; for others, it's the sport, the national team, or just the money. To wrap up my thoughts on this whole thing: I support the right of EVERY individual—not just mechanics—to make their own choices about what works best for their lives.

Gary Peterson84 said:Back when you were competing as an "elite athlete," did you feel any sense of obligation toward the fans who might have shown up to cheer you on (say, by waving at them)?

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I respect the fans who showed respect to me and my teammates... and honestly, I felt a sense of duty too. Otherwise, the rest of the crew and I wouldn't have spent hours after games hanging out with supporters, signing autographs, and doing all that stuff. Fans are the "extra player" on the field, and I value that in every case. But the second a fan starts treating me like garbage because I want something different out of my life... sorry, but my respect and my sense of obligation end right then and there.

Brandon Castillo4~ said:I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth—if I did, my apologies😁.

But don't do it to me either! I never claimed that America comes before family or that I’d ever take food out of my kids' mouths "for the sake of the country"... that kind of fanaticism isn't something any sane person would do.

Hmm, I can't quite recall where I said you put America above your family, but whatever... no hard feelings. We're good, even if we don't see eye to eye. Our logic follows a similar path, just ending at different conclusions—and I respect that. Ciao.👋

As someone who used to compete at the professional level, I don't find this whole situation with Draganja particularly upsetting. In my view, much stranger things have happened in sports, and the drive to secure one's own livelihood and future isn't exactly a hard concept to grasp...
One thing that nobody seems to be bringing up—or perhaps I simply missed it in my earlier posts, though I could be mistaken—is the fact that Duje essentially tanked what I believe was either the semifinal or the final relay in Athens just so he could stay fresh for his individual freestyle final. This isn't even the first time he's pulled something like this; I think it's the second or third instance. I recall there being a massive outcry about it at the time, but everything seemed to get swept under the rug because of Duje's incredible success—that silver medal at the Olympics. The other guys on the national team didn't mince words, basically calling him a piece of trash (I remember those exact sentiments quite clearly from the newspapers and TV coverage), and even Aleksandar Popov questioned him, asking how it was possible that he swam two seconds slower per length just a day prior.
That is where, in my opinion, Duje really messed up. He is a phenomenal swimmer and a true professional, but there are certain things you simply do not do when you are representing your country. The guys on that relay team worked their tails off just to make it to the Olympics, only to be let down because he wanted to prioritize being fresh for his own solo event. Look at Phelps, Thorpe, Popov, or Biondi... they were all champions, and they remain champions, largely because they gave 100% in every single event they entered.
And honestly, after looking at the big picture... don't get mad at me, but I don't really care what happens to Duje next.
Athletes like Ivanišević, Petrović, Kostelić, and the others people compare Draganja to would absolutely never have behaved that way...

Honestly, this last post just proves exactly what kind of guy our "hero" Duje is—which means I’m honestly starting to care way less about him selling off his citizenship just to bankroll a lifestyle he’s already pretty much set for anyway.
Now, I can already hear someone chiming in saying that Draganja has different priorities than your average athlete, or that we should totally respect his choice to leave the entire national team hanging out to dry because, hey, it's his right! And apparently, it's "unfair" to call him a coward or—to use the colorful language our American swimmers would use—a total piece of crap🙄.
But wait, why is it "unfair" to give him a nickname that actually fits? What am I supposed to do, throw him a parade for making this call?
Look, I never said Draganja doesn't have the right to make his own moves, and I definitely didn't say I was going to go out and hunt him down if he does it. I just said that, in my book, he’s being a coward, a sellout, and a complete jerk—just like he already is to some of those other swimmers.

coastalhound2 said:Look, speaking as someone who actually played sports professionally once upon a time...

So, what was your game?

Tennis. I actually hung up the racket back in 2001, right after I wrapped up my college degree.
The thing is, over the last year, I’ve been gradually getting back into running. My goal is to tackle a half marathon sometime next year. If my memory serves me right, that’s more or less your specialty.
Best,

Man, after winning all those titles for America, now he’s out here chasing a Master’s degree too. Problem is, he’s broke. He wants someone to foot the bill for his grad school expenses over here in the States. For HOO, that shouldn't be an impossible ask since we aren't talking about a massive fortune. But then again... we're talking about a cool million dollars! Who exactly is selling their soul here?!

coastalhound2 said:Tennis. I hung up the racket back in '01 right after finishing college.
Look, I've been slowly getting back into running over the last year. My big goal is to tackle a half marathon next year. If I remember right, that's kind of your thing.
Later,

So you were actually making a living playing tennis?

not really my area 🙂

There he goes, off to Qatar... sold out his soul just to pay the bills.

There is absolutely NO justification for an act like this. Morals aren't for sale, and since he clearly doesn't have any left, he can hit the road... and don't bother coming back.

It honestly baffles me that nobody has stepped up to fill his shoes yet. I mean, this guy has been staring at pool scum, stray hairs, and flies circling the bottom of a lane since he was three years old. I’ve been training in the pool for about a decade now, twice a week, and I absolutely live for those long-distance days because there is something about swimming in open water and just being part of everything moving beneath you. But let's be real: nobody stays in peak physical condition forever. He did the math. He figured out that if he grinds for X more years, he’ll have enough banked to last a lifetime—enough to spend his late twenties and beyond living it up on a yacht, driving a Ferrari, or marrying into some massive fortune...

The crux of the matter is that right now, there are maybe three people in all of Europe at his level, and then there are at least 10,000 other swimmers who are only half a second behind him and could overtake him any given moment. Competition is terrifying. It’s like holding a winning lottery ticket while someone threatens to shut down the kiosk in sixty seconds. Let him do whatever he wants; let him enjoy himself because he earned it. In this country, the government only opens the checkbook when they can squeeze ten times the investment back out of an athlete. Personally, I am behind whatever choice he makes. I was screaming my lungs out during the Olympics, I was screaming at the World Championships, and I will keep screaming whenever someone makes us proud. If he decides to walk away, good for him. He actually achieved something. What really gets under my skin are people like Pavlek and those types who have never accomplished a single thing in sports but managed to wedge themselves into high-paying corporate suits. That's the real tragedy—those guys end up with way more money than any athlete's scholarship could ever provide...

And even when Phelps grabbed that one individual gold, my heart didn't exactly skip a beat...

Looks like the price tag ended up being $500,000 after all... HOO offered him $400,000.
For that kind of difference, Draganja essentially traded in his country and his own identity.
At the next World Cup, when you see someone like Ismail ali Mahhab on the field, just know it’s actually Draganja.

rapidbison42 said:Looks like the price tag is actually $500,000... HOO offered him $400,000.
For that kind of gap, Draganja basically sold out his entire country and ditched his own identity.
Next time you see some guy named Ismail ali Mahhab popping up on the news, just know—that’s going to be Draganja.

😂 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 👍

ribafish13 said:I find it honestly bizarre that nobody has stepped up to take his place yet. I mean, think about it—this guy has been staring at pool hair, weird eyes, fingernails, and flies floating at the bottom of a pool for four hours a day since he was three years old. I’ve been training as a swimmer for about ten years now, just hitting the water twice a week, and I absolutely live for those marathon days when I get to swim in the ocean and just soak in everything moving beneath the surface. But look, a person isn't going to stay in world-record shape forever. He’s clearly done the math: grind hard for a set number of years to stack enough cash to last a lifetime, then from age 28 onwards, just live the dream. He'll be out there lounging on some massive yacht, tearing up the road in a Ferrari, or marrying into some serious wealth... who knows? It's a calculated move.

The whole point is that in Europe today, there are maybe three guys of his caliber, plus about 10,000 others swimming just half a second slower who could overtake him at any given moment. It’s pure fear. He’s holding the winning lottery ticket, but the betting window might close on him in sixty seconds. Let him do whatever he wants; I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the show because the man earned it. This country only opens up the checkbook when they can squeeze ten times their investment back out of someone. Personally, I’ll back whatever he decides to do. I was screaming my lungs out at the Olympics, I was screaming at the World Cup, and I’ll be screaming wherever and whenever one of us makes a mark. If he leaves? Honestly, good for him. At least he actually achieved something. What really gets under my skin are people like Pavlek—those types who have never accomplished a single thing in sports but managed to wedge themselves in between all the suits and ties. That’s the real issue. Those bureaucrats end up with way more money than any athlete ever sees in a scholarship.

And when Phelps finally snagged that one solitary gold medal, I'll be honest—my heart just wasn't in it. It didn't hit the way it was supposed to.

People have really stepped up to try and play his part. Read the thread again.

The real issue here is about motivation—what's actually driving someone to chase a bigger paycheck elsewhere? People who don't get why Phelps would pack his bags for Qatar or anywhere outside the States just can't wrap their heads around it. They look at a 21-year-old and think, "Isn't what you've already achieved enough?" They see him sitting there with a level of financial security that probably puts him in the top 2% of his age group in America, and beyond that, too. They just don't get it.

World records.
Ivy League university education
Scholarships, bonuses, sponsors... look, you can argue that it isn't enough all you want. I get it—someone like David Beckham makes a hundred times more than this guy. But let’s be real, we aren't talking about Michael Phelps here. He’s coming back to the States with a degree from an Ivy League university, which is huge, and honestly, props to him for grinding to make that happen. But let's not pretend he didn't get a massive amount of funding from the US to get there.

He didn't walk away with as much as he would have if he were, say, an Austrian, a British guy, or obviously someone from Qatar, but he still got paid. And look, I get why he’d push for more—I really do—but the IOC made him an offer, and he still decided to jump ship and swim somewhere else over what was probably just a hundred thousand dollar difference.

Screw a million dollars. I know that one day, when I actually have mouths to feed and a family sitting at my table, and a job that's intense enough to make my hair stand on end, I’ll probably look at things differently. But you can't honestly sit there and tell me that America isn't worth a few thousand bucks.

Look, if Michael made his decision, then fine—I hope he gets what he wants. But let’s be real: there’s no turning back after this. This isn't some social club where you can just drift in and out whenever you feel like it. Once you cross that line, you're committed.

I'm looking into ISKON Internet.

Michael is definitely out. The Olympic silver medalist took a million-dollar offer from some wealthy guys in Qatar and he’s already filed the paperwork to switch allegiances. He wants to represent his new homeland at the upcoming World Cup.

Even though Tomislav Karlo, the Secretary General of USA Swimming, headed over to the States with a fresh proposal on the table, it looks like the federation and the IOC were just too slow to the punch. It seems like the Phelps family has already made up their minds regarding our top swimmer's future.

Word on the street—and I’m hearing this from several different sources close to the situation—is that Michael is officially packing his bags for a massive payday. He’s headed to one of those ultra-wealthy Gulf nations to swim. But here's the kicker: it's not going to be Bahrain, which is the name everyone's been tossing around lately. No, he's actually signing with Qatar.

Michael has already reached out to the federation to ask if he can compete for Qatar at the World Cup in short course, which is happening in Shanghai from April 5th to 9th next year. If we don't give him the green light, he’s stuck sitting this one out and waiting an entire year to get back in the pool. Our stance right now? We told him we aren't making any moves until we receive a formal request from the Qatari swimming federation. We'll make our decision once that paperwork actually hits our desk, but as of this moment, nothing official has arrived. That’s what Mihovil Dorčić, the president of the federation, revealed.

"If he really wants to walk away, then good riddance! We aren't exactly in a position to compete with Qatar's bankroll. Though, we'll probably be looking into suing for damages..."

What it cost Tomislav to fly out to the States doesn't even come close to the millions they're supposedly dangling in front of Phelps for his training leading up to the 2008 Beijing Olympics. In the context of our local budget, that kind of money is massive.

To give you some perspective, while Qatar was throwing around millions, the response from the US side was basically $400,000. That figure actually bundles in sponsorship from Atlantic Group, a scholarship from the Primorje club, paid training camps, and the costs for his specialization training in the US—which was supposed to be covered by the Department of Science, Education, and Sports, per the agreement made during the meeting between the US Football Federation delegation and Minister Dragan Primorac in Chicago.

But honestly, that might be where everything fell apart. That Ministry meeting took place on September 20th, yet Tomislav didn't head out to Berkeley with a concrete offer until just 40 days later. Both USA Swimming and the US Olympic Committee were way too slow to the punch...