I just got a fine from the MTA

William Hernandez26 · 2004-10-13T11:51:12+00:00

So, what am I supposed to do now? I was out in NYC yesterday and ended up getting screwed. We bought one-way tickets, simple enough. But then, by some stroke o…

Anthony Bailey Regular

271 messages
joined May 2003

#21 · Oct 13, 2004

Eric Wells3 said:Crazy Girl, you're out of your mind. Let me lay down the legal reality for you:

Legally speaking, that fare inspector DOES NOT EXIST. He’s a nobody. A zero. A total non-entity.
He's just another regular citizen with exactly as much authority as you have.
He has no right to search you, and you aren't obligated to show him any ID. Technically, he can't even demand you follow him downstairs (though, look, fine—it's probably better to just go along with it so you don't start a massive scene on the MTA.

In any actual, functioning country, an inspector would be an off-duty cop.
It's a damn miracle we aren't a functional country.

If that inspector grabs your arm and tries to physically stop you from leaving, you have [/B]EVERY SINGLE RIGHT[B] guaranteed by the Constitution to absolutely floor him. Or, if you aren't feeling particularly violent, 😁you ask the people around you to act as witnesses and then sue him into oblivion. Because by doing that, he is straight-up infringing on your freedom of movement.
The whole concept of "citizen's arrest" (you know, like when a bank alarm goes off, you see a guy sprinting out with a bag of cash, and you have the right to hold him until the cops arrive) only applies to serious felonies—murder, armed robbery, sexual assault... anything in that realm. In the case of a transit inspector? That's just illegal restraint.

Next time an inspector pulls you aside and demands your ID, just ask him, "Are you a police officer?" If he says no, just say "goodbye👋" and walk away. Obviously, if he claims he *is* a cop, tell him to show you his badge.

P.S. If you and your friend actually have some backbone, deny everything in court. Tell them you've never seen the guy in your life.
It's just your word against his, and that only carries weight if the guy is actually a cop.

😁 😁

That's how—
Washington, D.C. residents think. L.
They all think the same way—like they've all been brainwashed together regarding MTA rights.
😁

William Hernandez26 Active MemberOP

57 messages
joined Jul 2003

#22 · Oct 13, 2004

I should have just started a poll😁 but I honestly don't know what to ask. I figured I’d just wait it out until the end of the week, hoping someone might pop up with the perfect solution. Not that this whole fake identity thing isn't working out okay for me—actually, I quite like my😢

Arthur Barnes Active Member

131 messages
joined Mar 2009

#23 · Oct 13, 2004

Eric Wells3 said:Crazy Girl, you're out of your mind😁😁 Look, here's the legal side of things:

Legally speaking, the fare inspector DOES NOT EXIST. He’s a nobody. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.
Just an average citizen with the exact same authority as you...
He has no right to search you, and you don't owe him a shred of ID. Basically, he can't even demand you follow him downstairs (though, fine, maybe just go along with it so you don't cause a massive scene on the MTA.

In any normal country, they send an undercover cop to check tickets.
Lucky we don't live in a normal country...😁😁😁

If an inspector grabs your arm and won't let you leave, you have [/B]ALL THE RIGHTS[B] guaranteed by the Constitution to knock him flat. Or if you aren't feeling physical...😁 ask the people around you to be witnesses and sue him. Because by doing that, he's literally restricting your freedom of movement.
The whole "citizen's arrest" thing (you know, like when a bank alarm goes off, you see a guy sprinting out with cash, and you have the right to hold him until the police arrive) only applies to serious felonies (murder, armed robbery, sexual assault...) so in the case of a fare inspector, it's just an illegal restriction of liberty.

Next time an inspector pulls you aside and asks for ID, just ask, "Are you a police officer?" If he says no, just say "goodbye👋" and walk away. Obviously, if he says he *is* a cop, then you ask to see his badge.

P.S. If you and your friend actually have the guts, deny everything in court. Say you never saw the guy in your life.
It's just your word against theirs, and that only works if the guy is actually a cop.😉

Sexy, right? So what you're saying is I can't hold someone's arm for a minor infraction, but I can beat someone to death if they grab my arm while I'm committing a minor infraction?

No wonder this country is a complete mess. 😁

Anthony Bailey Regular

271 messages
joined May 2003

#24 · Oct 13, 2004

Arthur Barnes said:Sexy, give me a break! So what you're saying is I don't have the right to grab someone's hand if they commit a minor infraction, but I can beat them to death if they grab my hand after I've already messed up?

It’s no wonder this country is a total disaster. 😁

😁 😁 👍

Whatever... you either pay up or walk.
😳

I usually just walk.
😁

Eric Wells3 Active Member

61 messages
joined Dec 2005

#25 · Oct 13, 2004

NeVeR said:Are you actually serious? LOL... I think I'll just go ahead and mess with the air traffic controllers.😬

I am being entirely serious. That whole subject was thoroughly debated on the Legal Forum ages ago, so if you really need to obsess over the specifics, go ahead and scavenge for details over there.

Karen Garcia5 Member

10 messages
joined Jan 2012

#26 · Oct 13, 2004

Eric Wells3 said:If a transit officer pulls you aside next time and demands your ID, just ask, "Are you a cop?" If they say no, then just say "goodbye👋" and go back to your business. I guess if they claim to be an officer, you just ask to see their badge.

It happened to me once. I just gave him a piece of my mind and refused to show my ID. My buddy was with me, too, so I think he backed off once he realized we weren't playing games.🙂

Eric Wells3 Active Member

61 messages
joined Dec 2005

#27 · Oct 13, 2004

Arthur Barnes said:So, let me get this straight: you don't have the legal right to grab someone by the arm if they commit a minor infraction, yet you're somehow permitted to beat someone to death just because they held your arm while you were already in the middle of committing a lesser offense?

Precisely.🙂

Here is a little hint for those struggling to grasp the concept: just because you committed an infraction doesn't mean anyone else is suddenly granted permission to retaliate against you in kind.😉

P.S. This isn't some localized absurdity unique to our corner of the world; it's the standard legal reality across the entire Western world.👋

slyviper47 Active Member

97 messages
joined May 2009

#28 · Oct 13, 2004

Crazy Girl said:you definitely have some beef with the MTA crowd😛

Naravano. I exclusively ride the MTA: 😁

And as a resident of Washington, D.C., I’m out here paying the massive local taxes used to cover MTA's losses and all those fare evaders. 😁

driftingnomad68 Member

18 messages
joined Sep 2005

#29 · Oct 13, 2004

You guys really messed up by handing over your personal info, and now there’s nothing left to do but pay the price.

slyviper47 Active Member

97 messages
joined May 2009

#30 · Oct 13, 2004

Crazy Girl said:<btw, organized school field trip 😉>

So you're a minor now?

Hm, and where was the trip leader? 😉 😁

William Doyle2 Member

14 messages
joined Sep 2006

#31 · Oct 13, 2004

So... I lived in Washington, D.C. for three years, and whenever I wasn't there, I was traveling back all the time... and not once in my life did I ever pay for a fare. I never had any issues... you really just have bad luck.

But I do have some experience with municipal court😁 🙄
You show up there and play the "this is my first offense" card. Tell them you'll never do it again, that you're just a struggling student, and how tough things are in the country right now. Claim you can't even afford a burger, that all your money goes to medicine because you've been sick your whole life, that you were always the last one picked for soccer, that you always hit the post, that your mom hates you, that you sleep in a basement, that you have holes in your shoes, that a bird pooped on your shoulder...

Give me a break! Just take all that and flip it to the feminine version... usually, that first part works (the "first offense" bit), and you just end up getting a warning. That happened to me twice—once for not wearing a helmet and once for not carrying my ID.😁

Linda Booth28 Member

10 messages
joined Sep 2003

#32 · Oct 13, 2004

It’s basically like someone just swiped your wallet the second you reached into your bag to pull out your ID🙏

p.s. You’re going to need a decent amount of acting talent to pull this one off

Anthony Bailey Regular

271 messages
joined May 2003

#33 · Oct 13, 2004

William Doyle2 said:I got hit twice myself—once for skipping the helmet and once for not having my ID on me.😁

You little delinquent.
😁

William Doyle2 Member

14 messages
joined Sep 2006

#34 · Oct 13, 2004

cro Fag said:you little delinquent
😁

Well... I’m still waiting on my second court date for carrying a stop sign, jaywalking, and driving drunk while technically being a pedestrian(?). I'll just tell them it's my first offense. 😁

Plus some charge for breaking a storefront window at the local precinct. But I didn't do it. Honestly, I'm even less guilty than I was last time...

...man. Reading this back now... yeah, doesn't exactly help my reputation...

Eric Wells3 Active Member

61 messages
joined Dec 2005

#35 · Oct 14, 2004

Linda Booth28 said:It’s like someone just snatched your wallet right out from under you the second you reached for your ticket to show them.

Yeah right🙄

That’s exactly what I’ll be saying when my utility bills start piling up on the kitchen table...🙄

velvetpilot212 Active Member

102 messages
joined Aug 2004

#36 · Oct 14, 2004

Yeah, Eric Wells3, everything sounds great from a legal standpoint, but what about those aggressive transit officers? You know, the ones who get right in your face or snatch your ticket out of your hand? What am I supposed to do—call the police in the middle of being harassed by an MTA officer?
Specifically, this bus driver—an MTA employee—started by demanding my pass so he could "get a better look at it" (apparently because I have some sort of "special" pass, not that it matters...). When I refused, he literally ripped it out of my hands. Before that, he actually stood up, got right in my face, and acted incredibly aggressive and arrogant, then told me he wouldn't give it back until he felt like it.
God, I don't even know how to react in those moments. I just lost my cool, which was exactly what he wanted. Later, once I had calmed down, I realized I actually could have called the cops and reported that an MTA worker stole my property. Because that is exactly what happened. He finally gave it back after ten minutes.
Who am I even supposed to report him to? Some guy in a little blue booth at the station?

Eric Wells3 Active Member

61 messages
joined Dec 2005

#37 · Oct 14, 2004

velvetpilot212 said:Sure, Eric Wells3, everything looks perfect on paper from a legal standpoint, but what about those aggressive transit officers? Those types who get right in your face, snatch the ticket out of your hand, and just act completely out of line? What am I supposed to do, call the police right then and there because some MTA officer is harassing me?

In situations like that, I honestly thank God that I am a fairly large man.😁😁

I’m joking, obviously... (or am I?😁)

The logical course of action would be to ask the bystanders around you to provide their identification as witnesses so you can take the individual to court. The only significant issue is that most people these days are absolute cowards who lack any shred of empathy for others, so I highly doubt anyone would actually step up to help you.😢

Your best Chance lies in asking the elderly; they tend to be much more seasoned when it comes to human interactions, they have plenty of free time, and they possess a heightened sensitivity toward injustice.

I once dealt with an officer who was incredibly arrogant because he was working with a partner; he snatched my ticket from me—which wasn't even validated, for heaven's sake😁—grabbed my arm, and tried to start a physical altercation. In response, I drove my elbow straight into his jaw, which sent the other officer running for the hills, and I barely managed to avoid hitting the wall myself.😁

velvetpilot212 Active Member

102 messages
joined Aug 2004

#38 · Oct 14, 2004

Eric Wells3 said:In situations like this, I’m just thanking God that I’m a big guy.😁😁

How sweet... 🙄 maybe I should "upgrade"... 🙄 with some clay?

velvetpilot212 Active Member

102 messages
joined Aug 2004

#39 · Oct 14, 2004

So, here's my takeaway—if I’m not some massive, imposing guy, none of that legal advice you're peddling actually matters to me. In fact, if I don't have that physical presence, I guess there isn't much I can even lean on in this society, right? It's a bit of a paradox, I suppose. We act like we aren't animals because we're supposedly intelligent, civilized, and cultured, and all that other nonsense... but deep down, we still operate on the principle of the strongest.😁
And yeah, I'll admit it. Bitterness is definitely bleeding through my words here.
🙂

Anthony Bailey Regular

271 messages
joined May 2003

#40 · Oct 14, 2004

Anonymous said:Man... I’m still just sitting here waiting on my second court date for holding up a stop sign, jaywalking, and driving while intoxicated—as a pedestrian(!?). I think I'll just tell them it's my first offense. 😁

Then there’s this charge for smashing a storefront window at the local municipal court. But I didn't do it. Honestly, I'm even less guilty than I was in the last case.

...God. Now that I actually read it back... yeah, it doesn't exactly help my reputation.

Anonymous, you just have terrible luck. That's all there is to it.
😢

What happens to you only happens to one in a hundred people.
😳

I just got a fine from the MTA

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