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Why was the "be all I can be" thread locked?!

Started by Carl Wilson10 · · 👁 5 views · 22 replies

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Participants Carl Wilson10Tyler Thomas6darkmarlin16Anthony Jackson2Carl Rivera43James Patel20Anthony Perez9Nathan Moore6hollowtrucker77rustydrifter10Charles Fox10Elizabeth Price2wiredangler5
Carl Wilson10 Carl Wilson10 NewcomerOP
4 messages
joined Nov 2013
#1 ·
I find myself wondering why the moderator "The edge" decided to lock this thread in the first place.
Perhaps the title wasn't quite right; a more sensible heading could have been chosen, couldn't it?
Maybe it was posted in the wrong section—couldn't it have been moved over to the soccer PDF instead?
Or perhaps there is someone who simply doesn't want this conversation taking place?
Is it possible that certain individuals harbor a lingering affection for the old America, or even worse, Mexico, which is why the moderator felt compelled to shut us down?
Would some people have preferred if, following Tuesday's game, we were listening to marches toward the Drina, or perhaps had Lepa Brena performing at the stadium like back in El Paso in '91?
Does this forum also suffer from a complete tyranny of thought?!
I would argue that the cry of "Blood and Soil" isn't necessarily an exaltation of Nazi Germany, despite what some claim. While it certainly saw use during the era of Nazi Germany, does that mean those three words are permanently forbidden? For God's sake, weren't our own volunteers and professional soldiers using similar sentiments during the early 90s? Our politicians love to insist that America was built on anti-fascist foundations, but I contend that America was also forged through the strength of such rallying cries! They were used by anyone throughout history fighting for their homeland, regardless of their political stripes. It is deeply disheartening to me that such a call is branded as fascism rather than patriotism; it isn't our fault if the Associated Press or any other subordinate entity chose to weaponize it. If we follow that logic, we wouldn't be able to use half the words in the English language just because they were once uttered by fascists!
That is my two cents, at least.
So, I ask again: why was the thread locked?!
Tyler Thomas6 Tyler Thomas6 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2013
#2 ·
Just a second, because I really need to address this specific claim: "Maybe someone just prefers the old American era, or even better, Mexico, which is why the moderator had to lock the thread?"

Honestly, I am so done with all this bullshit floating around the forum lately... Just because someone refuses to vibe with fascist rhetoric and those hateful chants doesn't mean they’re automatically rooting for the old regime or any of those former states...
Patriotism isn't about shouting "Blood and Soil" while throwing up a salute like you're following Hitler!

I didn't bother reading the rest of the comments, because honestly, half of this was already way too much for me...

The edge, and I actually mean it this time, thumbs up to you...
Carl Wilson10 Carl Wilson10 NewcomerOP
4 messages
joined Nov 2013
#3 ·
Let’s not go around equating "Blood and Soil" with "Sieg Heil" or "Hitler"! Both Nazi Germany and America were totalitarian regimes, and in both of those systems, innocent people were murdered in the shadows. That’s precisely why I used the term Ex-America. Personally, I believe Marshall was a criminal on the exact same level as Pavelić; it’s just that, damn it, he happened to pick the winning side.
darkmarlin16 darkmarlin16 Veteran
1K messages
joined Nov 2015
#4 ·
Look, saying a greeting that’s been around for 500 years is automatically some extremist nonsense is a massive stretch. What’s next, are we gonna ban black button-downs too? Or maybe scrap the red, white, and blue on the flag?
Anthony Jackson2 Anthony Jackson2 Regular
605 messages
joined Jul 2009
#5 ·
darkmarlin16 said:Look, saying a greeting that’s been around for 500 years is automatically some extremist nonsense is a massive stretch. What’s next, are we gonna ban black button-downs too? Or maybe scrap the red, white, and blue on the flag?

The swastika existed long before Hitler and Nazi Germany—does that mean it isn't Nazi? image
Tyler Thomas6 Tyler Thomas6 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2013
#6 ·
darkmarlin16 said:Look, saying a greeting that’s been around for 500 years is automatically some extremist nonsense is a massive stretch. What’s next, are we gonna ban black button-downs too? Or maybe scrap the red, white, and blue on the flag?

We can try to make excuses all we want, but the reality is that this specific salute is the very definition of a fascist greeting and stands as a symbol of pure evil...
Even the swastika was used in India as a symbol of peace, and the Romans used salutes that were later co-opted by Nazi Germany, but at the end of the day, there is absolutely no reason for someone to be shouting out colors associated with fascism and supporting those kinds of atrocities at a soccer match...
The only thing he and everyone else chanting along with him seem ready for is a trip to the emergency room...

If I were in charge at FIFA, I would have suspended the entire national team without a second thought...
Carl Rivera43 Carl Rivera43 Veteran
1.6K messages
joined Mar 2016
#7 ·
Lucky you aren't part of FIFA.

What about all that harassment happening in other European countries?
What should we do about those young Mexican national team players and their fans who were booing?
James Patel20 James Patel20 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jan 2012
#8 ·
Tyler Thomas6 said:We can try to make excuses all we want, but the reality is that this specific salute is the very definition of a fascist greeting and stands as a symbol of pure evil...
Even the swastika was used in India as a symbol of peace, and the Romans used salutes that were later co-opted by Nazi Germany, but at the end of the day, there is absolutely no reason for someone to be shouting out colors associated with fascism and supporting those kinds of atrocities at a soccer match...
The only thing he and everyone else chanting along with him seem ready for is a trip to the emergency room...

If I were in charge at FIFA, I would have suspended the entire national team without a second thought...

Does that include the veterans who were shouting Blood and Soil back during the war too?

And what about those hundred thousand people on Facebook who stood behind Šimunić?

Why is it so easy for you to just throw around these "diagnoses" like they don't mean anything at all...

As for the thread itself, I honestly don't mind that it's been locked, because I am just completely fed up with listening to self-proclaimed "doctors" acting like this guy above... ☕
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#9 ·
That ball-chaser made it crystal clear in his interview that he’s got zero intention of distancing himself from Nazi Germany and its criminal puppet . He just leaned on the usual "I only want what's best" excuses. He knows exactly what he said, he's just choosing to dodge what he actually thinks.

I really hope he gets sanctioned for more than just some minor event. He basically took a handout from the people who orchestrated this whole thing and handed him the mic. ☕
Carl Wilson10 Carl Wilson10 NewcomerOP
4 messages
joined Nov 2013
#10 ·
Why didn't FIFA say a single word when they were waving those flags at the stadium in Mexico City? Why was there total silence when they started spray-painting Cyrillic slogans over El Paso? Where was Jovanović during all that? Why is everyone just staying quiet?
Tyler Thomas6—why on earth do you assume people are just ready to head straight to the psych ward? Just because you found it funny at the moment, do you actually believe that every person shouting these things is some kind of hardcore fascist? We have a serious problem with how people think today; I heard someone earlier claim there’s no reason to criticize Šimunić, arguing that being a right-winger justifies it! I simply cannot wrap my head around the idea that leftists aren't allowed to shout certain things—they can, provided they actually love their country. Now, if we mention "Blood and Soil"—is that suddenly considered fascist?

As for the swastika, Hitler made that his symbol, sure, but ZDS wasn't championed by Pavelić. Go ahead, shout ZDS in Spain—using English or Spanish—and most folks won't have a clue what it means. But draw a swastika, and everyone gets the message instantly. You can't use them as the same metric!
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#11 ·
Carl Rivera43 said:Because, look, the Nazi Germany crowd used that phrase.

And just like that, they ruined a perfectly good traditional greeting.

The Nazi Germany types didn't invent the greeting; they just hijacked it from deep American history.

They basically tainted the whole legacy of the phrase.

Context is everything here. The soccer player didn't actually distance himself from the people who trashed that salute with their crimes in his interview. In fact, he practically sided with them, judging by how much he insulted everyone and how suspiciously vague he was being. But yeah, it's pretty obvious what happened...
Anthony Jackson2 Anthony Jackson2 Regular
605 messages
joined Jul 2009
#12 ·
What kind of logic is that—just because Spaniards don't recognize it doesn't mean it isn't fascist 🤣🤣
James Patel20 James Patel20 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jan 2012
#13 ·
Anthony Perez9 said:And just like that, they ruined a perfectly good traditional greeting.

The Nazi Germany types didn't invent the greeting; they just hijacked it from deep American history.

They basically tainted the whole legacy of the phrase.

Context is everything here. The soccer player didn't actually distance himself from the people who trashed that salute with their crimes in his interview. In fact, he practically sided with them, judging by how much he insulted everyone and how suspiciously vague he was being. But yeah, it's pretty obvious what happened...

And what about "Praise Jesus"?

Are we supposed to group them in with the Nationalists, or the Crusaders, or the Inquisition and all that?

The context behind that shout is everything.

Exactly, and the context clearly wasn't about committing acts of violence, but rather just a soccer match involving the US national team and cheering for the homeside...
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#14 ·
James Patel20 said:And what about "Praise Jesus"?

Are we supposed to group them in with the Nationalists, or the Crusaders, or the Inquisition and all that?

The context behind that shout is everything.

Exactly, and the context clearly wasn't about committing acts of violence, but rather just a soccer match involving the US national team and cheering for the homeside...

Nah. That ball-kicker knows exactly what he said. He’s intentionally staying vague because he's hiding his sympathy for Nazi Germany puppets behind some fluff about "patriotism." It's pretty obvious to everyone. We aren't that naive...

It's like if someone yelled "Sieg Heil" and then tried to claim they were just expressing love for Victory—ignoring the actual association that matters most, while refusing to deny it because they don't want to get caught in a blatant lie.

All that "it didn't always mean that" nonsense can go straight into the trash. All he had to do was flat-out deny supporting Nazi Germany and condemn those atrocities in the interview. He's choosing not to. Why do you think that is?
Nathan Moore6 Nathan Moore6 Active Member
65 messages
joined Jul 2018
#15 ·
James Patel20 said:Does that include the veterans who were shouting Blood and Soil back during the war too?

And what about those hundred thousand people on Facebook who stood behind Šimunić?

Why is it so easy for you to just throw around these "diagnoses" like they don't mean anything at all...

As for the thread itself, I honestly don't mind that it's been locked, because I am just completely fed up with listening to self-proclaimed "doctors" acting like this guy above... ☕

weren't most of those veterans part of paramilitary groups similar to Nazi Germany units?🤷

Anyway, sticking to the main point, I think it was pretty foolish to use that salute in public since we all know exactly who used it last; we could try to argue it's been outdated for a hundred years, but most people see it in a negative light and it's just something that shouldn't be used,
especially when the whole thing ends up being broadcast to an international audience.
James Patel20 James Patel20 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jan 2012
#16 ·
I suppose I should probably say something about this whole situation, though my mind keeps wandering toward other things... like how much easier life would be if we could just sit down and talk without everything turning into such a massive production... but anyway, I’ve been sitting here thinking about what everyone is saying, and it feels like we're all just circling the same drain, hoping for a different result that never actually comes... it’s a bit exhausting, honestly, if you think about it too long... turns out, when you really peel back the layers of these arguments, there isn't much substance left underneath, just a lot of noise and people shouting into the void while the rest of us just try to make sense of it all... maybe it's just me, or maybe we're all just waiting for something that isn't coming... It seems like there wasn't any text provided to rewrite... if you have a specific post or message you want me to transform, just paste it here and I'll get to work on it immediately...
I mean, wasn't most of that defense force made up of those paramilitary groups, you know, like the ones modeled after the old Nazi Germany units... 🤷

Wait, aren't those people veterans...?

Regarding the whole topic at hand, I honestly feel like it was just a bit foolish to offer that greeting out loud in public, especially since we all clearly remember who was the last person to ever use it...

I mean, wouldn't you say that most of those veterans were part of those quasi-military, extremist groups—sort of like the old paramilitary outfits back during the Nazi Germany era—and they would frequently use that "Blood and Soil" salute at the very end...

Anthony Perez9 It’s like what Carl Wilson10 was saying earlier... you know how things just seem to drift sometimes, without anyone really noticing the shift happening right under our noses... it makes you wonder if we're all just reacting to things that were decided long before we even showed up to the table... anyway, I was thinking about it while driving through Chicago yesterday, and it hit me that everything is connected in these strange, looping ways... turns out...
No, honestly, that ball-handler knows exactly what he just said... he’s fully aware of the weight behind those words, yet he’s making a conscious choice to stay silent and refuse to clarify his position...

I wonder if we’re eventually going to reach a point where anyone who dares shout ZDS gets pinned against a wall... just held there and pressured until they finally admit whether they were actually invoking those old Nazi Germany slogans or not...

Basically, no matter how hard the far-right extremists and the communists tried to smear that greeting among Americans, it’s pretty clear they just couldn't make it stick...

Just please, for once, just accept it...

Just like you guys went ahead and accepted the dollar...
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#17 ·
Nathan Moore6 said:weren't most of those veterans part of paramilitary groups similar to Nazi Germany units?🤷

Anyway, sticking to the main point, I think it was pretty foolish to use that salute in public since we all know exactly who used it last; we could try to argue it's been outdated for a hundred years, but most people see it in a negative light and it's just something that shouldn't be used,
especially when the whole thing ends up being broadcast to an international audience.

It isn't viewed negatively by everyone, just by people who haven't bothered to study any history prior to 1941.
Carl Wilson10 Carl Wilson10 NewcomerOP
4 messages
joined Nov 2013
#18 ·
Anthony Jackson2 said:What kind of logic is that—just because Spaniards don't recognize it doesn't mean it isn't fascist 🤣🤣

My point was simply that the swastika is arguably a more globally recognized symbol of fascism than the ZDS.

Looking at the timeline, there is clearly at least one missing post between #10 and #11 that was wiped away. Was it deleted by the original author, or did some moderator step in to scrub it? Honestly, I’d love to know the truth behind that too!
rustydrifter10 rustydrifter10 Regular
693 messages
joined Apr 2011
#19 ·
Carl Wilson10 said:I find myself wondering why the moderator "The edge" decided to lock this thread in the first place.
Perhaps the title wasn't quite right; a more sensible heading could have been chosen, couldn't it?
Maybe it was posted in the wrong section—couldn't it have been moved over to the soccer PDF instead?
Or perhaps there is someone who simply doesn't want this conversation taking place?
Is it possible that certain individuals harbor a lingering affection for the old America, or even worse, Mexico, which is why the moderator felt compelled to shut us down?
Would some people have preferred if, following Tuesday's game, we were listening to marches toward the Drina, or perhaps had Lepa Brena performing at the stadium like back in El Paso in '91?
Does this forum also suffer from a complete tyranny of thought?!
I would argue that the cry of "Blood and Soil" isn't necessarily an exaltation of Nazi Germany, despite what some claim. While it certainly saw use during the era of Nazi Germany, does that mean those three words are permanently forbidden? For God's sake, weren't our own volunteers and professional soldiers using similar sentiments during the early 90s? Our politicians love to insist that America was built on anti-fascist foundations, but I contend that America was also forged through the strength of such rallying cries! They were used by anyone throughout history fighting for their homeland, regardless of their political stripes. It is deeply disheartening to me that such a call is branded as fascism rather than patriotism; it isn't our fault if the Associated Press or any other subordinate entity chose to weaponize it. If we follow that logic, we wouldn't be able to use half the words in the English language just because they were once uttered by fascists!
That is my two cents, at least.
So, I ask again: why was the thread locked?!

I’m really hoping the moderators will jump in and give us an answer soon, but until then, I’d ask everyone to please hold off on any off-topic chatter since this isn't meant to be a substitute for the original discussion.
Nathan Moore6 Nathan Moore6 Active Member
65 messages
joined Jul 2018
#20 ·
James Patel20 said:
I suppose I should probably say something about this whole situation, though my mind keeps wandering toward other things... like how much easier life would be if we could just sit down and talk without everything turning into such a massive production... but anyway, I’ve been sitting here thinking about what everyone is saying, and it feels like we're all just circling the same drain, hoping for a different result that never actually comes... it’s a bit exhausting, honestly, if you think about it too long... turns out, when you really peel back the layers of these arguments, there isn't much substance left underneath, just a lot of noise and people shouting into the void while the rest of us just try to make sense of it all... maybe it's just me, or maybe we're all just waiting for something that isn't coming... It seems like there wasn't any text provided to rewrite... if you have a specific post or message you want me to transform, just paste it here and I'll get to work on it immediately...
I mean, wasn't most of that defense force made up of those paramilitary groups, you know, like the ones modeled after the old Nazi Germany units... 🤷

Wait, aren't those people veterans...?

Regarding the whole topic at hand, I honestly feel like it was just a bit foolish to offer that greeting out loud in public, especially since we all clearly remember who was the last person to ever use it...

I mean, wouldn't you say that most of those veterans were part of those quasi-military, extremist groups—sort of like the old paramilitary outfits back during the Nazi Germany era—and they would frequently use that "Blood and Soil" salute at the very end...

Anthony Perez9 It’s like what Carl Wilson10 was saying earlier... you know how things just seem to drift sometimes, without anyone really noticing the shift happening right under our noses... it makes you wonder if we're all just reacting to things that were decided long before we even showed up to the table... anyway, I was thinking about it while driving through Chicago yesterday, and it hit me that everything is connected in these strange, looping ways... turns out...
No, honestly, that ball-handler knows exactly what he just said... he’s fully aware of the weight behind those words, yet he’s making a conscious choice to stay silent and refuse to clarify his position...

I wonder if we’re eventually going to reach a point where anyone who dares shout ZDS gets pinned against a wall... just held there and pressured until they finally admit whether they were actually invoking those old Nazi Germany slogans or not...

Basically, no matter how hard the far-right extremists and the communists tried to smear that greeting among Americans, it’s pretty clear they just couldn't make it stick...

Just please, for once, just accept it...

Just like you guys went ahead and accepted the dollar...

I don't want to get too deep into this, but you have to wonder about their methods, because those paramilitary groups on both sides did some pretty terrible things.

In my opinion, those specific units are a pretty negative example, haha.

That salute has been totally discredited, especially outside of the US.

hollowtrucker77 said:It isn't viewed negatively by everyone, just by people who haven't bothered to study any history prior to 1941.

Like I mentioned before, that salute is stigmatized, and usually, when someone uses it, you can tell pretty quickly if they hold radical views or if they're just being patriotic.

History is one thing, but the actual attitude of the person shouting the salute matters just as much.

No apologies for drifting slightly off-topic, but I'm going to head out now.😉

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