CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online
log in · register
Home › Lifestyle › Health › Using psychedelics to treat mental health disorders

Using psychedelics to treat mental health disorders

Started by Bradley Fisher20 · · 👁 8 views · 63 replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants Bradley Fisher20Brian Moore2Noah Jackson79Kenneth Hernandez67shadowgardener12Thomas Mendoza5AJason Johnson4feralbear49Nicholas Myers
feralbear49 feralbear49 Member
13 messages
joined Dec 2002
#41 ·
Just a quick side note here, if you don't mind. I don't know much about schizophrenia, but I do know that psychotherapy can be a lifeline in certain situations. It worked for me, though finding the courage to actually go through with it isn't easy. It’s a tough road. But let's not just write off the whole method or assume every therapist is out of their mind. Isn't it worth having the strength to face your own deepest fears?
shadowgardener12 shadowgardener12 Active Member
186 messages
joined Dec 2002
#42 ·
It feels a bit sketchy to me... that part about being hospitalized and put on meds just because you couldn't sleep and were feeling restless. Once you start talking about pills, the whole cause-and-effect thing gets blurry.

I know this girl who tried some nasty drugs once. She’s a naturally open, vibrant person, but ever since then, she’s been dealing with these non-stop anxiety attacks. Just like that. It makes no sense, because she’s genuinely cheerful and loves life... she was totally blindsided by it.
Of course, they suggested more medication, but she had enough clarity and drive to try going without. She managed to pull through—she says it was a long, grueling process, but... she's a psychologist herself, so she knows how much pills can mess with your brain. I just wanted to point out how much chemicals can trigger, and continue to trigger, bad waves in the psyche.
Brian Moore2 Brian Moore2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Jan 2003
#43 ·
shadowgardener12 said:I find it incredibly suspicious that they decided to admit you to the hospital just because you were dealing with insomnia and restlessness. Once they start pumping you full of pills, the whole truth behind what’s actually happening gets buried under a fog of medication.

Honestly, the main reason I ended up stuck in that ward was simply because I had the nerve to tell my doctor that I was struggling with suicidal thoughts.😢
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#44 ·
Hey Jason Johnson4, since I really dig your writing style, I’ve been wondering—where are you getting all this info? Is this based on personal experience, or do you have some go-to books or literature you recommend? I’d love to at least get a solid foundation in this stuff, if not become an expert.

John Doe, are you religious? I’m asking purely from a practical standpoint, because I feel like faith can provide a sense of direction that might keep someone from hitting another total mental breakdown—if that’s even the right way to describe that feeling.

Rea, listen, there’s this whole idea about a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, and honestly, that’s where the argument ends. Schizophrenia isn't hardcoded in your DNA, nor is it caused by some random virus. It’s a purely psychosomatic condition. Because of that, it should be treated exactly like any other psychosomatic illness. Ugh, there—that’s a slightly better way of putting my thought into words.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#45 ·
Thomas Mendoza5 said:It helps someone stay a walking corpse.

John Doe.... honestly, it really bugs me when I see people posting stuff like that...me too, it's irritating, something about it just rubs me the wrong way

Do you seriously think you can just wave a magic wand and someone's entire life will suddenly transform???

Take someone struggling with, say, schizophrenia—their mental issues aren't even the half of it. They have plenty of tangible, physical struggles... things that might have pushed them toward a breakdown faster, or things that happened specifically because they were already breaking down...

If a chemical substance can help a person cope with that reality even just a little bit easier, then that actually matters a huge amount... sometimes a partial solution feels like paradise compared to the hell of their actual reality...

Better to be a walking corpse than a dead one... or at least, being a walking corpse gives a person the choice to die on their own terms, instead of having their illness drive them to an early grave.I disagree, anything is better than a walking corpse... plus, your logic is flawed right there.

Sure, alternative methods might help balance a person out, but if they're being attacked from all sides by psychological and physical problems at once, those methods won't do much good... it's just one step forward and two steps back.

Even something as simple as going for a run by a river can be an impossible task for some people... there are problems you can't just "fix" easily; sometimes you need the help of what people call "chemical illusions."
So why would psychotropic drugs be any better or more effective than "alternative" treatments????!!!!!!

The idea that you can force things into balance—that a pill can stabilize brain chemistry just so a person can finally crawl out of their shell and try to move forward...God, what utter NONSENSE, I'd take the greatest hits immediately.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#46 ·
Thomas Mendoza5 said:Unfortunately, a lot of us are stuck in that exact same loop...

And what you said about honesty? You hit the nail on the head. The problem is that even the top psychiatrists often lean too heavily on the "textbook" approach. They end up treating a patient like a clinical case study instead of actually trying to connect with them—trying to understand how their mind truly works and how they perceive the world...

I’m actually heading to see a shrink soon myself, but I’m not holding my breath. Honestly, I expect him to just try to medicate me away. As for his endless small talk and theories? I doubt there's any real value there, other than raising my blood pressure with those stereotypical questions...

If that's your mindset—if you're putting all your faith in some psychiatrist—then it's no wonder you won't get better. YOU are the one who has to heal yourself!

And don't even get me started on the pills. They do more harm than good; they'll just wear you down until you crash even HARDER!
Thomas Mendoza5 Thomas Mendoza5 Member
27 messages
joined Mar 2003
#47 ·
Oh, come on... honestly, without my meds, I feel like I’m going to end up smashing myself through a glass window one of these days... seriously, just drop the whole "spiritual healing" act already. I need those damn pills just to get one step higher on the ladder... because there is no way I can leapfrog my way to the top of a skyscraper in one go.

And look, I know deep down I have to heal myself, okay? But I keep telling you—I don't expect a single thing from my therapist other than a damn prescription for Prozac, Xanax, Lexapro, and all that other stuff that keeps me from wanting to slit my wrists whenever an episode hits.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#48 ·
If I were in your shoes, I’d honestly rather just slit my wrists😛 😛
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#49 ·
solaris...you're just pure evil 😢 😉.

Rea, I honestly think you deserve a rough ride. Like, riding a bike straight into hell.
Brian Moore2 Brian Moore2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Jan 2003
#50 ·
beeli said:John Doe, are you religious? I’m asking purely from a practical standpoint, because religion can provide a sense of direction that might protect someone from another total mental breakdown (I don't quite know how else to describe that state).

I’m not religious, and frankly, I have no desire to be.
But back when I was going through that "purple phase," I actually had this overwhelming sensation that I was Jesus, and let me tell you—it was anything but pleasant. Later, while I was staying at the psychiatric ward, there were plenty of people hovering over their beds holding onto these sacred images, and it drove me absolutely insane. There wasn't even some deep, logical reason for it; I was just terrified of them.😢>
Brian Moore2 Brian Moore2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Jan 2003
#51 ·
Thomas Mendoza5 said:I realize I’m the one who has to fix myself here. How many times do I have to hammer this home? I don't expect a damn thing from some shrink other than a freaking prescription for Prozac, Xanax, Lexapro, and all that other garbage meant to stop me from wanting to slit my own wrists whenever a breakdown hits...

So, what do you think is actually wrong with you? 😕

What kind of breakdown are we talking about exactly? 😕
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#52 ·
John Doe said:I’m not religious, and honestly, I have zero interest in being.
But back when I was going through that "purple phase," I actually felt like I was Jesus, and let me tell you, it wasn't a vibe. While I was staying at the psych ward, there were all these people hovering over my bed holding religious icons or stuff, and it drove me absolutely crazy. There wasn't even a specific reason; I just felt this intense, irrational fear of them. 😢

Fair point 🙂. Honestly, if I ever bowed down to religion, I’d be even further gone into the *****. But hey, John Doe, what do you think about the idea that someone might just snap because society is such a mess? It feels like it’s impossible to deal with all this nonsense without noticing it, right? Dealing with that kind of heavy stuff can break a person. Everyone except Batman. He’d probably just start quoting the Bible backwards. 😁.
Brian Moore2 Brian Moore2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Jan 2003
#53 ·
beeli said:It’s fine 🙂. Honestly, if he had actually bowed down to religious authority, things would have gone even more south for him. But hey, John Doe, what do you think about the possibility that someone snaps simply because society is fundamentally broken and everything is just... wrong? I mean, it can't be easy to deal with such blatant dysfunction, especially when you can't look away without noticing it. It’s enough to make anyone crack. Everyone except Batman. He’d probably just start quoting the Bible backward 😁.

As for me, after the war, I went to see a doctor for the first time regarding stomach issues. I went in for a gastroscopy, and right after that, the doctor admitted me to the hospital for fifteen days of testing. Turns out I had gastritis, erosions in my stomach lining all the way down to the muscle layer, H. pylori, and hemorrhoids that made me anemic since I lost so much blood during the war—so I was on iron supplements too. My plan was to get all that sorted out and then head back to work, but because of those medical issues, I wasn't cleared for active duty, which meant I had to go see a psychiatrist for a checkup. While I was in the hospital, I had surgery for the hemorrhoids, and at the psych clinic, they immediately handed me some pills to take before sending me back to military service. I didn't take those psychiatric meds at all because I didn't feel like I needed them. Instead, I started doing math in my head, adding up and subtracting everything that happened to me during the war. I was furious that I didn't receive the rank I deserved, and I could have easily earned more medals (I received two) seeing others who got decorated even though they weren't half as good as I was—some were actually worse. Since I commanded a unit of 317 men by formation, sometimes closer to 400 when we had two extra batteries added, I ended up writing up recommendations for several truly outstanding guys at the end of the war. And as you might guess, not one of them received a single medal. Same goes for the promotions I recommended; nobody got them. It turns out that in this life, the worse you are, the better you do. That infuriated me deeply. If I had been a different kind of man, I could have walked away from the war with a much thicker wallet, but what can I do? I'm just not built that way. I could have demobilized people for profit; I could have sold off military equipment. From just one single deal, I could have pocketed $50,000 when some guy wanted to buy 128mm rockets from us; that wouldn't have been hard—you sell them, write down that you fired them, and everyone walks away happy. You could have done just about anything. You just can't act against your own nature, and I simply am not the type of person who can pull off those kinds of schemes. In a word, I came out of the war on the losing end; when you tally it all up, I just completely burned myself out. It's true that society is pretty messed up, as you say, and that definitely played a role, but I think the bigger factor was the relentless, daily stress of being in combat.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#54 ·
beeli said:solaris... you're pure evil 😢 😉.

Rea, I swear, I could just ride my bike straight through your ego. Just total chaos.


😁 😁 😁

I wasn't being dead serious with what I wrote, but Thomas Mendoza5 knows exactly what I mean,

Rea, enough with the whining!
Jason Johnson4 Jason Johnson4 Active Member
130 messages
joined Dec 2003
#55 ·
shadowgardener12 said:haha Wilhelm Reich and his orgonimeter 😁 😁

Jason Johnson4, go ahead and stir the pot, I don't mind one bit! 😉, so, how’s the snake business? 😁

Honestly, I have no idea why you're laughing at the mention of Reich. 😕

And for the record, it’s an orgone accumulator, not an orgonimeter. Well, technically it is, but still... 😉

***

The snake thing... man, your memory is terrifyingly good. People actually come up to me all the time asking what I mean by that, like, "Do you actually have a pet snake?"

Like I said—at least three.

😁
Jason Johnson4 Jason Johnson4 Active Member
130 messages
joined Dec 2003
#56 ·
shadowgardener12 said:Come on, man, please explain how psychedelics actually work—on both a psychological and physiological level.

If you’re talking about drugs, I have to tell you that they destabilize the personality; they suppress and distort (even more than just ordinary reality) our original impulses, create mental gloom, and ruthlessly drain your energy.

In exchange, they might give you a "peak experience," which just fuels the illusion of gaining energy, but the actual energy loss is massive due to those effects mentioned above; plus, it increases your attachment to whatever random things surface from the subconscious (without any real understanding of your primary impulses).

Shadowgardener12, look, I'm no expert capable of giving you a concise breakdown of how psychedelics function... I mean, I could try, but honestly, you'd be better off looking into some professionals for that.

You claim that "drugs" destabilize personality. That isn't quite right. It might be more accurate to say they temporarily strip away certain filters:

* A first attempt (semi-scientific): 😉

1 - For an individual to exist independently within an environment and communicate with others, they have to be able to separate their "SELF" from their surroundings (both physically and psychologically).

2 - Furthermore, they have to take the flood of optical, acoustic, and other stimuli and, by comparing them to previous stimuli (or info from memory and the subconscious), filter and interpret them before letting them in—but doing it just enough so they can still function normally.

It seems the thalamus—basically the "gatekeeper to the cerebral cortex"—plays the decisive role here.

Sensory information (from the eyes, ears, etc.) travels through the thalamus to reach the cerebral cortex,

where it gets decoded and then PROJECTED BACK to the thalamus (a feedback loop)

so the thalamus can feed it back into that strange loop known as the CSTC (cortico-striato-thalamo-cortical) circuit.

This mechanism protects the brain from being overwhelmed by external stimuli, as the information projected back to the thalamus regulates how much new incoming information is let in (a negative feedback loop on the thalamus filter).

This is just a model based on the idea that psychedelic states of consciousness are products of misinterpreted internal and external patterns of stimuli.

Under this model, psilocybin or LSD, which possess structures similar to serotonin, mimic serotonin and thereby activate specific serotonergic receptors on the nerve cells of the thalamus and other parts of the brain.

So, after taking a psychedelic, the CSTC mechanism is temporarily disconnected, and the thalamic filter is left wide open—which leads to a flood of stimuli: information is no longer constantly interpreted, leading to a fundamental shift in the perception of the SELF and the environment.

In extreme cases, the brain (the body) experiences the world as a series of independent images with altered meanings—or as one fluid whole, a constant stream of visions.

***

Psychedelic substances (agents) like LSD create a dreamlike state while maintaining clear consciousness and exceptional memory recall: events buried deep in the subconscious are transported to the surface—they become conscious.

Activated subconscious conflicts are suddenly laid out on a platter, waiting for psychotherapeutic processing.

Internal defense structures collapse like houses of cards, and that's exactly why I believe such powerful psychoactive agents shouldn't just be banned outright.

In short, we aren't talking about treating people with psychedelics, but rather about the instrumental use of psychedelics. Just like you'd use a microscope or an endoscope, except here, it's an instrument for exploring the psyche.

If you have experiences that aren't actually integrated into long-term psychotherapy (or handled through some mystical or religious lens), they’re pretty much worthless. They just vanish—poof—like a dream you forget the second you wake up or a patch of morning fog burning off...

But clearly, even having an honest conversation about this rubs someone (specifically 🙂) the wrong way. I guess it touches a nerve. When you look at public research in this field, it doesn't just crack open a patient's psyche; it provides a massive amount of data that makes it so much easier to decode history—both the stuff happening inside us and the world around us.

Anyway, thanks for reading, and sorry if I'm rambling a bit too much here. 🙂
Jason Johnson4 Jason Johnson4 Active Member
130 messages
joined Dec 2003
#57 ·
Well, there it is. The damage is done. We went ahead and took a bite of that forbidden fruit, didn't we? There’s no undoing it now.
And just like that, the warm, living pulse of reason basically turned into ice.
It’s funny how things work out sometimes. You think you have this massive, overwhelming force in front of you—something huge and blinding, like the sun of Adam—and then suddenly, this tiny, insignificant little grain of wheat just rolls in and eclipses the whole thing. It’s wild, really. Just one small thing completely changing your entire perspective on what's actually standing in front of you.
It’s just like as The Dragon's tail dulls The brightness of The moon.

Maulana Jallaludin Rumi Maulana Jallaludin Rumi: Masnavi I Ma'nav *** Quote

***

beeli said:Hey, Jason Johnson4. Since I actually dig your writing style, I’ve gotta ask—where are you pulling all this from? Is it just hands-on experience, or do you have a specific reading list you swear by? I’d love to at least become well-read on the subject, if not go a bit deeper.

Well... I have to say, hearing something like that actually makes my day.
Look, I’ve definitely had my fair share of run-ins with the deep end. Honestly, I usually prefer to just sit on the sidelines and stay out of these debates entirely, but I feel like I have some skin in the game here. Not all of my past experiments were exactly what you'd call "recommended," if you catch my drift, but I know exactly what kind of demons I was dancing with back then. I was already on very familiar terms with them.

Just to be crystal clear: this isn't some kind of recommendation or an invitation to go out and start using similar substances.

Look, the thing is, most people just won't admit to themselves that they aren't actually ready for that kind of experience. They fall into this trap of thinking, "Well, if everyone else can handle it, I definitely can too." Then, once things get heavy, they swear they’re "expanding their minds," only to end up cursing plain old marijuana because they couldn't handle the ride.

I mean, honestly, the alpha and omega of any experience with—even the most mellow psychoactive substances—is Leary’s whole postulate regarding SET and SETTING. But does anyone actually stop to think about them? Seriously, lay it on me, give me some guidance so I can actually fly instead of crashing. If people just paid a little more attention to their set (you know, their headspace right before and after they take something) and their setting (the actual environment they're in), there would be so much less paranoia and that weird, heavy lethargy you get after hitting a bong or a joint. Heck, if they were careful, they might even avoid a total meltdown when dealing with something much heavier.

Anyway, back to the heavyweights:

I personally know a few people who are total Oedipus types. 🙄 I almost completely trashed my life plans... Honestly, that whole Oedipus thing—not even the Freud version, just the core concept—is this fundamental conflict that really shouldn't be hanging around when you're heading out on expeditions like this.

I've honestly had it up to here. Seriously, screw everything. 😁

I’ve actually "facilitated" a few mushroom-fueled DSL sessions myself—mostly because people kept asking me to, of course. And honestly? Not a single person had a massive meltdown. I just made sure to convince anyone who looked even slightly shaky that it was better to frame the whole experience as simple fragmentation and defragmentation. It keeps things manageable, you know?

***

Let's talk about literature.

I honestly don't even know where to start with recommendations—there's just way too much good stuff out there to pick just one thing.

Maybe start with Louis Lewin’s stuff on psychedelics. It’s pretty tough to track down, but hey, if you're actually interested in diving deep and you happen to be fluent in German, I might be able to scan a PDF over to you one of these days... just let me know.

You know, I was just sitting here thinking about Aldous Huxley's *The Doors of Perception* and *Heaven & Hell*. It’s one of those books that really sticks in the back of your mind, isn't it? It makes you wonder about the way we perceive everything around us.

Then there’s MOKSHA, written by that same author.

So, I was diving back into some Stanislav Grof lately—you know how it goes, one minute you're looking for something specific and the next you're three hours deep into a rabbit hole. I ended up revisiting some of his stuff on LSD psychotherapy. It’s wild how much he pioneered in that space; he really laid the groundwork for understanding how those kinds of intense experiences can actually be used for healing rather than just being some chaotic trip. It’s heavy stuff, but incredibly fascinating.

If you're looking to get a real look under the hood of the human psyche, you should definitely check out that character analysis by Wilhelm Reich I mentioned earlier. It's worth the read.

Just a quick heads-up: you really ought to read Reich within a real-world context—something like David Boadella’s *The Life and Work of Wilhelm Reich*. If you don't, his whole set of theses and theories might end up sounding a little ridiculous or just plain unbelievable.

Look, you have to understand that I’ve got a few secrets tucked away. They aren't exactly hidden—I mean, the books are out there for anyone to find if they bother looking—but I'm not about to just drop their titles on you right here.

Honestly, most of this stuff was already covered back when I was studying under my old mentor:

Dostoevsky. 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏

***

Best of luck out there—and seriously, keep your eyes peeled. You never know when things might get a little dicey.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#58 ·
Jason Johnson4 said:[

then there's some stuff from Stanislav Grof, like his work on LSD psychotherapy,

maybe you could dive a bit deeper into this part 🙂
Jason Johnson4 Jason Johnson4 Active Member
130 messages
joined Dec 2003
#59 ·
Sure thing, man...

I honestly don't even know where to start. It might be easier if you could tell me what exactly you're looking for—or at least give me a general idea.

🙂
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#60 ·
I'm curious—was he just theorizing about the potential effects, or did he actually conduct some kind of intense study? Same thing regarding the treatment for alcoholism. What did that trial look like? Basically, could you give me a quick rundown of Grof’s scientific approach when it comes to using psychedelics?

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads