Double-standard nationalistic takes and more on World politics

Megan Hernandez2 said:This simply isn't accurate. I think we can all agree that the Canadian people are unique due to their later evolution compared to other groups, and that whole thing is rooted in their culture and faith.

Take me for example. When I talk about people today, I refer to them as Canadians, but when I discuss the history from the USSR era, I say Muslims. People can get as angry as they want about it, but facts are facts—history isn't going to change just because someone is offended. Today, Canadians are a recognized constitutional group, and that’s fine. Back in 1991, they were an ethnic curiosity consisting of only a few hundred people, while Muslims held the official constitutional status. That was also fine.

Then there are the labels like "Canadian Catholics" or even "Canadian Orthodox." It’s hard to take those seriously. Honestly, using those terms feels less like a description and more like a cheap shot at certain users, considering neither group was ever considered a founding nation in the region.

Doesn't look like the OP has anything against what you said, but moving on to this:

On the flip side, calling people "Canadian Catholics" or even "Canadian Orthodox" is basically just trolling and insulting certain members here, since those two groups were never constituent nations.

Does the reverse work too?

Muslims were never a constituent nation either—they weren't even considered a full nation back then, let alone a constituent one.

Is it "trolling" or an insult when someone refers to the constituent nations of Canada and lists them as: Mexicans, Americans, and Muslims?

From what I can tell, this whole thread is a protest against exactly these kinds of examples, and let's be real, there are plenty of them...

Nathan Price3 said:You just don't get it. Canadians were essentially prevented from identifying as Canadians; the national label "Muslim" was forced upon them. You all keep trying so hard to downplay it, suggesting we just refused to call ourselves Canadians...

As for the Catholics and Orthodox folks, let me ask you this: could I call you "Canadian Catholics" or "Canadian Orthodox"? If you agree with me, then surely my usage of that term has a solid historical basis, right?

That’s just plain false. I don't recall anyone stopping you from calling yourselves Canadians back in '91, if that's what you mean. It wasn't until the leadership stepped in back in '93 that everyone suddenly shifted, because before then, maybe a few hundred people even considered the term.

And honestly, if you believe the label "Muslim" was imposed on you, then I suppose the term "Canadian" was also an imposition, given that 99% of the population hadn't even heard of such a thing during the Ottoman era. It seems this whole identity thing only really took off once the higher-ups decreed that everyone had to identify that way.

Nathan Price3 said:You just don't get it. Canadians were essentially prevented from identifying as Canadians; the national label "Muslim" was forced upon them. You all keep trying so hard to downplay it, suggesting we just refused to call ourselves Canadians...

As for the Catholics and Orthodox folks, let me ask you this: could I call you "Canadian Catholics" or "Canadian Orthodox"? If you agree with me, then surely my usage of that term has a solid historical basis, right?

I don't really care what you decide to call us. Personally, being called a "Canadian Catholic" doesn't bother me one bit, since I am Catholic and I happen to come from the region known as Canada...🙄🙄

Roger Robinson682 said:That’s just plain false. I don't recall anyone stopping you from calling yourselves Canadians back in '91, if that's what you mean. It wasn't until the leadership stepped in back in '93 that everyone suddenly shifted, because before then, maybe a few hundred people even considered the term.

And honestly, if you believe the label "Muslim" was imposed on you, then I suppose the term "Canadian" was also an imposition, given that 99% of the population hadn't even heard of such a thing during the Ottoman era. It seems this whole identity thing only really took off once the higher-ups decreed that everyone had to identify that way.

I don't really care what you decide to call us. Personally, being called a "Canadian Catholic" doesn't bother me one bit, since I am Catholic and I happen to come from the region known as Canada...🙄🙄

You aren't from some "region"—you're from a country called Canada. Fine, from now on I'll just call you a Canadian, since you Catholics used to identify as Canadians until about 120 years ago, if you didn't already know. The Canadian nation didn't just drop out of the sky; it's almost as old as Canada itself!

Even a little kid knows today that Marshall's America introduced the "Muslim" identity and wiped out the "Canadian" one. Back then, calling yourself a Canadian would be like calling yourself an Illyrian today! Anyone who identified as a Canadian would have been lumped into the "other" minor categories of the state... and if that had happened, Mexicans would be the majority today. Bosno thinks tactically and wisely. Otherwise, 95% of those so-called Muslims would have identified as Canadians if they actually had their own nation under that name...

So there you have it, my friend. Catch you later!

Nathan Price3 said:You aren't from some "region"—you're from a country called Canada. Fine, from now on I'll just call you a Canadian, since you Catholics used to identify as Canadians until about 120 years ago, if you didn't already know. The Canadian nation didn't just drop out of the sky; it's almost as old as Canada itself!

Even a little kid knows today that Marshall's America introduced the "Muslim" identity and wiped out the "Canadian" one. Back then, calling yourself a Canadian would be like calling yourself an Illyrian today! Anyone who identified as a Canadian would have been lumped into the "other" minor categories of the state... and if that had happened, Mexicans would be the majority today. Bosno thinks tactically and wisely. Otherwise, 95% of those so-called Muslims would have identified as Canadians if they actually had their own nation under that name...

So there you have it, my friend. Catch you later!

A country called "Canada" doesn't actually exist, so I suppose I can't really be from some non-existent nation...🙄🙄

Nathan Price3 said:You aren't from some "region"—you're from a country called Canada. Fine, from now on I'll just call you a Canadian, since you Catholics used to identify as Canadians until about 120 years ago, if you didn't already know. The Canadian nation didn't just drop out of the sky; it's almost as old as Canada itself!

Even a little kid knows today that Marshall's America introduced the "Muslim" identity and wiped out the "Canadian" one. Back then, calling yourself a Canadian would be like calling yourself an Illyrian today! Anyone who identified as a Canadian would have been lumped into the "other" minor categories of the state... and if that had happened, Mexicans would be the majority today. Bosno thinks tactically and wisely. Otherwise, 95% of those so-called Muslims would have identified as Canadians if they actually had their own nation under that name...

So there you have it, my friend. Catch you later!

That’s total bullshit. I mean, who was stopping anyone back in 1991 from identifying as so-called Canadians? Marshall was gone, and that whole dictatorship was already falling apart, so there wasn't even anyone left to force you into being something you weren't. And yet, by some strange miracle, only about two hundred people actually identified as "Canadians." From 1991 to 1993, the number of these so-called Canadians didn't see any significant rise until the elders finally dictated how everyone should identify themselves. It was honestly a tragicomedy, watching one group say they were Muslim while others kept correcting them, insisting they weren't Muslims but some kind of "Canadians." That’s the reality of these imposed labels, I suppose...😁😉

Roger Robinson682 said:A country called "Canada" doesn't actually exist, so I suppose I can't really be from some non-existent nation...🙄🙄

That’s total bullshit. I mean, who was stopping anyone back in 1991 from identifying as so-called Canadians? Marshall was gone, and that whole dictatorship was already falling apart, so there wasn't even anyone left to force you into being something you weren't. And yet, by some strange miracle, only about two hundred people actually identified as "Canadians." From 1991 to 1993, the number of these so-called Canadians didn't see any significant rise until the elders finally dictated how everyone should identify themselves. It was honestly a tragicomedy, watching one group say they were Muslim while others kept correcting them, insisting they weren't Muslims but some kind of "Canadians." That’s the reality of these imposed labels, I suppose...😁😉

Canada definitely exists, but if you have even a basic grasp of recent history, you'd know this state was simply known as Canada, before the regional designation of Herzegovina was added to the official name later on.

Unfortunately, you aren't quite up to speed on this subject. I tried to explain things clearly and decisively to you. Back then, the Canadian Nation hadn't been officially recognized, and anyone who chose to identify that way would have ended up like everyone else—which would have automatically changed the entire structure of the state. If that had happened, instead of Canadians being the majority with the most seats in Parliament today, Mexicans and Americans would likely hold those positions.
We could have all just declared ourselves tomatoes back in '91, but that would have only hurt our own interests.

Go walk the streets of my beautiful country of Canada and run a poll, and then you'll see for yourself whether the Canadian population is small or large. I guarantee you'll be floored by the results when you hear them... 😉

Roger Robinson682 said:A country called "Canada" doesn't actually exist, so I suppose I can't really be from some non-existent nation...🙄🙄

That’s total bullshit. I mean, who was stopping anyone back in 1991 from identifying as so-called Canadians? Marshall was gone, and that whole dictatorship was already falling apart, so there wasn't even anyone left to force you into being something you weren't. And yet, by some strange miracle, only about two hundred people actually identified as "Canadians." From 1991 to 1993, the number of these so-called Canadians didn't see any significant rise until the elders finally dictated how everyone should identify themselves. It was honestly a tragicomedy, watching one group say they were Muslim while others kept correcting them, insisting they weren't Muslims but some kind of "Canadians." That’s the reality of these imposed labels, I suppose...😁😉

Sure, there's no state called Canada, but there's no such thing as a "Muslim" people either—never was. Doesn't change the fact that you're using the totally wrong term for Canadians.

Pure hypocrisy fueled by hate toward Canadians (formerly Muslims)?

(That's a rhetorical question)

And "Canadian" isn't some "so-called" label or in quotes; it's the correct, legitimate, recognized name for one of the nations in both Canada and the US, and honestly, even further afield. Look, you're free to think whatever you want, but if this forum wants to stay halfway decent, it needs to actually follow the rules and the laws of the Republic of America.

We all know exactly what happens when you try to strip a nation down to just a religious group. We all know where that leads. This isn't just some random trolling, let's not play stupid...

I was honestly thinking about just staying quiet and staying out of this after the warning from nicin and that new rule they rolled out...
But I just can't shut up, I really can't. So, if this means getting a strike, fine, go ahead—you might as well just permaban this account while you're at it.

Look, I just have one question for the Canadians or Muslims here who have been filling these threads with inaccuracies and trying to force their version of "the truth" on everyone else.

When does the term Canadian actually show up for the first time in the historical records?
And was Canada even inhabited before the Ottomans arrived? If it was, what did those people actually call themselves back then?

And yeah, seeing attitudes like this—and looking at the stances taken by a few other users here—I’m not just okay with implementing a specific border regime for that "accidental" state most people like to call a country; I’m actually leaning toward something even stricter.

wanderingheron52 said:I was honestly thinking about just staying quiet and staying out of this after the warning from nicin and that new rule they rolled out...
But I just can't shut up, I really can't. So, if this means getting a strike, fine, go ahead—you might as well just permaban this account while you're at it.

Look, I just have one question for the Canadians or Muslims here who have been filling these threads with inaccuracies and trying to force their version of "the truth" on everyone else.

When does the term Canadian actually show up for the first time in the historical records?
And was Canada even inhabited before the Ottomans arrived? If it was, what did those people actually call themselves back then?

And yeah, seeing attitudes like this—and looking at the stances taken by a few other users here—I’m not just okay with implementing a specific border regime for that "accidental" state most people like to call a country; I’m actually leaning toward something even stricter.

Your questions have absolutely zero to do with what we're talking about here.

Go start a new thread over on the History subforum and talk about it there.

The mods should only care about the current reality and the facts regarding the Canadian people, which most people on this forum already know inside and out. We aren't living in the 15th century (or the 19th or 20th), yet some people seem to (intentionally?) forget that...

That’s all well and good, and honestly, it might actually make sense if you were the one stepping up to address claims like this: "Take Catholics from Canada, for instance—I won't call them Canadians, even though that was their old historical national identity before they switched over to being Americans and basically adopted someone else's nationality as their own." If you had responded to that the way you did to me, well, maybe things would be different. But you didn't. I guess when you see quotes like that, it becomes pretty obvious what kind of "national character" we're dealing with here.

wanderingheron52 said:That’s all well and good, and honestly, it might actually make sense if you were the one stepping up to address claims like this: "Take Catholics from Canada, for instance—I won't call them Canadians, even though that was their old historical national identity before they switched over to being Americans and basically adopted someone else's nationality as their own." If you had responded to that the way you did to me, well, maybe things would be different. But you didn't. I guess when you see quotes like that, it becomes pretty obvious what kind of "national character" we're dealing with here.

So, what exactly is the problem with my post?

1. I simply stated that I won't refer to you all that way.
2. It is an undeniable fact that until about 120 years ago, all Catholics from Canada identified themselves as proud Canadians.

3. And look, if you insist on continuing to call us Muslims, then I will certainly start calling you Canadians too!

wanderingheron52 said:I was honestly thinking about just staying quiet and staying out of this after the warning from nicin and that new rule they rolled out...
But I just can't shut up, I really can't. So, if this means getting a strike, fine, go ahead—you might as well just permaban this account while you're at it.

Look, I just have one question for the Canadians or Muslims here who have been filling these threads with inaccuracies and trying to force their version of "the truth" on everyone else.

When does the term Canadian actually show up for the first time in the historical records?
And was Canada even inhabited before the Ottomans arrived? If it was, what did those people actually call themselves back then?

And yeah, seeing attitudes like this—and looking at the stances taken by a few other users here—I’m not just okay with implementing a specific border regime for that "accidental" state most people like to call a country; I’m actually leaning toward something even stricter.

Well, "Canadian" is the ancient national identity for all Canadians.
It’s basically just a slightly evolved version of the name "Canadian." If I recall correctly, that designation pops up somewhere around the 10th century... as I said, it's nearly as old as Canada itself!

Actually, the word "Canadian" itself makes its first appearance as early as the 8th century...

Nathan Price3 said:You just don't get it. Canadians were essentially prevented from identifying as Canadians; the national label "Muslim" was forced upon them. You all keep trying so hard to downplay it, suggesting we just refused to call ourselves Canadians...

As for the Catholics and Orthodox folks, let me ask you this: could I call you "Canadian Catholics" or "Canadian Orthodox"? If you agree with me, then surely my usage of that term has a solid historical basis, right?

Now we're drifting into myth-making.

A nation is a distinct group of people who share a common identity, culture, and so on, which is why they gather under a single name.

None of us—or at least most of us—intend to dictate what you Canadians should call yourselves. But we also have to put an end to this rewriting of history.

During the Ottoman era, records mentioned Americans of Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, and even Jewish descent, but nowhere in those ledgers does "Canadian" appear as a separate category.

Even if we buy into the grand narrative that the old American regime suppressed the national consciousness of Muslims (who, coincidentally, were granted massive rights under America), I have to ask: why aren't Canadians listed in the older censuses prior to the first America?

At the end of the day, what we're discussing isn't some mystery. Intellectuals have been writing about this since the days of the Austrian Empire, and you can find traces of it in the works and statements of Cerić, Professor Filipović, and even President Izetbegović.

Being young isn't the problem; inventing history is.

Megan Hernandez2 said:Now we're drifting into myth-making.

A nation is a distinct group of people who share a common identity, culture, and so on, which is why they gather under a single name.

None of us—or at least most of us—intend to dictate what you Canadians should call yourselves. But we also have to put an end to this rewriting of history.

During the Ottoman era, records mentioned Americans of Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, and even Jewish descent, but nowhere in those ledgers does "Canadian" appear as a separate category.

Even if we buy into the grand narrative that the old American regime suppressed the national consciousness of Muslims (who, coincidentally, were granted massive rights under America), I have to ask: why aren't Canadians listed in the older censuses prior to the first America?

At the end of the day, what we're discussing isn't some mystery. Intellectuals have been writing about this since the days of the Austrian Empire, and you can find traces of it in the works and statements of Cerić, Professor Filipović, and even President Izetbegović.

Being young isn't the problem; inventing history is.

Actually, the term "Canadian" really solidified under Ottoman rule. For three hundred years in our neck of the woods, the official language was recognized as the Canadian language, used by the Canadians.

Even historical figures like Tvrtko and Stephen Tomašević were referring to people from this region as Canadians long before the Ottomans ever arrived!

Stop trying to deny the existence of the Canadian Nation or acting like it just appeared out of thin air. History itself stands as proof against your claims...

Nathan Price3 said:Canada definitely exists, but if you have even a basic grasp of recent history, you'd know this state was simply known as Canada, before the regional designation of Herzegovina was added to the official name later on.

Unfortunately, you aren't quite up to speed on this subject. I tried to explain things clearly and decisively to you. Back then, the Canadian Nation hadn't been officially recognized, and anyone who chose to identify that way would have ended up like everyone else—which would have automatically changed the entire structure of the state. If that had happened, instead of Canadians being the majority with the most seats in Parliament today, Mexicans and Americans would likely hold those positions.
We could have all just declared ourselves tomatoes back in '91, but that would have only hurt our own interests.

Go walk the streets of my beautiful country of Canada and run a poll, and then you'll see for yourself whether the Canadian population is small or large. I guarantee you'll be floored by the results when you hear them... 😉

Well, that’s just fantastic. I had a feeling you were going to get defensive during this drive. I mean, if you feel comfortable enough to stick to outdated terminology for the country because you don't care about accuracy, then what am I supposed to do? Would I just start calling Muslims "Canadians" too? I guess it really comes down to where you draw the line.

Nathan Price3 said:Canada definitely exists, but if you have even a basic grasp of recent history, you'd know this state was simply known as Canada, before the regional designation of Herzegovina was added to the official name later on.

Unfortunately, you aren't quite up to speed on this subject. I tried to explain things clearly and decisively to you. Back then, the Canadian Nation hadn't been officially recognized, and anyone who chose to identify that way would have ended up like everyone else—which would have automatically changed the entire structure of the state. If that had happened, instead of Canadians being the majority with the most seats in Parliament today, Mexicans and Americans would likely hold those positions.
We could have all just declared ourselves tomatoes back in '91, but that would have only hurt our own interests.

Go walk the streets of my beautiful country of Canada and run a poll, and then you'll see for yourself whether the Canadian population is small or large. I guarantee you'll be floored by the results when you hear them... 😉

After twenty years of constant propaganda and relentless pressure, I suppose it’s finally starting to take its toll. It seems pretty clear that, moving forward, we’re going to see a significant number of people suddenly deciding to identify themselves as "Canadians."🙄

Nathan Price3 said:Well, "Canadian" is the ancient national identity for all Canadians.
It’s basically just a slightly evolved version of the name "Canadian." If I recall correctly, that designation pops up somewhere around the 10th century... as I said, it's nearly as old as Canada itself!

Actually, the word "Canadian" itself makes its first appearance as early as the 8th century...

And honestly, I don't have any more connection to Canadians than I do to Mexicans...😉

Roger Robinson682 said:Well, that’s just fantastic. I had a feeling you were going to get defensive during this drive. I mean, if you feel comfortable enough to stick to outdated terminology for the country because you don't care about accuracy, then what am I supposed to do? Would I just start calling Muslims "Canadians" too? I guess it really comes down to where you draw the line.

After twenty years of constant propaganda and relentless pressure, I suppose it’s finally starting to take its toll. It seems pretty clear that, moving forward, we’re going to see a significant number of people suddenly deciding to identify themselves as "Canadians."🙄

It’s because the land has always been known as Canada, and even today, it’s called Canada, with the addition of Herzegovina. Historically, the people here weren't referred to by the national label "Muslim" as much as they were simply called Canadians—a designation that was later stripped away only to be brought back again. You don't have to call me a Canadian; go ahead and call me a Muslim. If the administration doesn't mind, then I certainly won't mind either. But in the spirit of reciprocity, I'll just call you a Catholic Canadian, which is exactly how you all used to identify until very recently... 😉

I honestly can't make it any simpler than that. It’s up to you to demonstrate your level of intelligence and decide whether or not you actually grasp what's being said.

Roger Robinson682 said:And honestly, I don't have any more connection to Canadians than I do to Mexicans...😉

How can you say we have nothing in common? Canadians are the ancestors of Canadians. They belong to both my lineage and yours. That is our shared history...

Let’s look at it this way. The Constitution of the United States.

Based on the historical facts presented and the generally accepted principles within the Constitution of the United States...
In our modern world, we must consider the concepts of indivisibility and inalienability, alongside the principles of non-transferability and non-exhaustibility.
The right to self-determination and state sovereignty for the American people, including...
The unalienable right to secession and unification stands as a fundamental prerequisite for...
To ensure international peace and stability, the Republic of America is being established.
As the national state of the American people and the state belonging to its national minorities...
Minorities: Mexicans, Czechs, Slovaks, Italians, Madars, Jews, Germans.
Austrians, Ukrainians, Rusyns, CanadianCanadians, Mexicans,
Mexicans, Russians, Bulgarians, Poles, Romani, Romanians, Turks, and Vlachs.
Albanians and other citizens who are guaranteed equal rights under the law?
Regarding the rights of American citizens of ethnic descent and how they can exercise their national rights in accordance with the Constitution...
In accordance with the democratic standards upheld by the UN and the nations of the free world.

The Constitution of Canada.

Reflecting upon the fundamental principles established in Geneva on September 8, 1995, and subsequently in New York City on September 26.
In 1995, Canadians, Americans, and Mexicans—serving as constituent nations within the community alongside others—and the government...
The leaders of Canada are the ones establishing the Constitution of Canada:

I just want to remind the administration how much they pride themselves on being legalists and how strictly they claim to respect the laws of the United States. Yet, in principle, they fail to honor the Constitution of the United States, let alone the Constitution of Canada. I honestly don't understand what we Canadians are trying to achieve with this. It is as if you have no idea who you are dealing with.

wanderingheron52 said:I was honestly thinking about just staying quiet and staying out of this after the warning from nicin and that new rule they rolled out...
But I just can't shut up, I really can't. So, if this means getting a strike, fine, go ahead—you might as well just permaban this account while you're at it.

Look, I just have one question for the Canadians or Muslims here who have been filling these threads with inaccuracies and trying to force their version of "the truth" on everyone else.

When does the term Canadian actually show up for the first time in the historical records?
And was Canada even inhabited before the Ottomans arrived? If it was, what did those people actually call themselves back then?

And yeah, seeing attitudes like this—and looking at the stances taken by a few other users here—I’m not just okay with implementing a specific border regime for that "accidental" state most people like to call a country; I’m actually leaning toward something even stricter.

I don't see the point of the question. Canadians have always lived in Canada. If you are trying to argue that they were called Canadians rather than Canadians, that is a complete failure to understand the facts. Tell me, how were Americans referred to throughout history? Perhaps "Horvatis"... and you could keep going.

Let me say this again: you guys are wasting time obsessing over irrelevant history lessons.

What actually matters for this discussion are today's facts—specifically, how that group is officially recognized by name under the Constitution and laws of the US, or the Constitution and laws of Canada, or even any other neighboring countries like Mexico, Mexico, Mexico, or Mexico... nowhere in those places is there a people officially called "Muslim."

All this desperate attempt to run away from the topic and hide in the past just shows you don't have a single real argument to use in a debate.