F1 Italian GP - Monza (Sept 2, 2018)

Nicholas Newman2 said:Honestly, what can you even say? A bit of cheering is fine—but crossing the line into insults is where things get messy.

I suppose I know how people would act if they actually signed for them—most hypocrites would probably worship him—and then just swoop in like vultures on anyone brave enough to offer a critique.🤮

Just to be clear, I’m talking about the ones causing all the noise, not every single fan out there.

👍

Kimi Räikkönen was cutting those corners so aggressively today—I mean seriously, he was practically dancing on the edges—that he ended up picking up a massive amount of debris on his left rear tire every single time. It just absolutely shredded his rubber in the final stint!

vividlynx68 said:I honestly think after this race, there’s zero doubt about who the best driver of this generation is—not like there was much debate before, anyway! Sebastian Vettel just can't seem to hold his own against Lewis Hamilton when the stakes are actually high.

I'm right there with you! I'll be honest, I didn't want to admit it for a while because I really believed Vettel was the top dog. But man, looking at these last two seasons, it's crystal clear—Lewis Hamilton is operating on a completely different level than Sebastian Vettel.

Hamilton is way more aggressive behind the wheel—he's got that real racer's heart, you know?—plus his overtaking skills are just on another level.

Vettel only really dominates when he's leading the pack and doesn't have anyone breathing down his neck.

Just wanted to put this out there—I’ve been a die-hard Ferrari Fan since day one, and honestly? I truly believe the Ferrari is the best car on the grid this year! But man, when it comes to raw talent behind the wheel, Hamilton and Bottas are just on another level compared to those two.

Lewis Hamilton > Sebastian Vettel > Valtteri Bottas > Kimi Räikkönen

electriccanyon6 said:Just to be clear, I've been a massive Ferrari Fan since day one. In my opinion, the Ferrari is the best car on the grid this year, but Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas are simply better drivers than those two.

Lewis Hamilton > Sebastian Vettel > Valtteri Bottas > Kimi Räikkönen

Watch out. You might end up at the guillotine if you aren't careful—don't say I didn't warn you. 🤣

Sebastian Vettel needs to shut his mouth and stop making these claims about not leaving any room...
He’s the only one to blame for how today went down.
If Ferrari had actually put their cars in first and third after that opening lap, one of them would have walked away with the win for sure.
As it stands, Lewis Hamilton was just plain faster than Kimi Räikkönen today.

electriccanyon6 said:I'll admit, I was stubborn about this for a while because I really wanted Vettel to be the guy. But after seeing how the last two seasons played out, it’s painfully obvious that Hamilton is operating on an entirely different level than Vettel.

Hamilton is a much more aggressive driver; he actually has that racer's instinct, and his overtaking skills are just superior.

Vettel only seems to dominate when he's leading from the front with nobody ahead of him.

electriccanyon6 said:Just a side note—I've been a die-hard Ferrari fan since day one, and I truly believe the Ferrari is the best car on the grid this year, but Hamilton and Bottas are clearly better drivers than those two.

Hamilton > Vettel > Bottas > Kimi Raikkonen

It isn't quite that simple, though.
Look, I'm not questioning Hamilton's talent—not by a long shot. You don't drive like that unless you're elite. But let's be realistic here: Hamilton has been dominating since 2015, and in my book, he's miles ahead of Nico Rosberg. Honestly, I think the team's bias toward the German driver is what cost Hamilton the title back in 2016. That said, during this current era, Mercedes-Benz hasn't had any real competition until now. This year, Ferrari has stepped up, and they are lightyears ahead of everyone else. There are certain things other teams take for granted that Mercedes-Benz just doesn't seem to deal with. As a Ferrari fan, it’s honestly annoying to watch, but I can't recall a single time Mercedes-Benz had a botched pit stop or a massive tactical blunder. Not to mention the fact that, as much as it pains me to say, Mercedes-Benz seems to have reliability issues every other year...

So, you have to factor in the fact that Hamilton basically "doesn't have a care in the world" outside of his own driving. He gets the flawless strategy, the most reliable car, and the raw speed whenever it counts.
Just remember, when Vettel had a similar setup at Red Bull, he absolutely crushed it. ☕☕

Nicholas Newman2 said:Holy cow. You might end up facing the firing squad if you keep talking like that—don't say I didn't warn you! 🤣

But hey, look, the truth is what it is—I've been a die-hard Ferrari fan forever, easily over 20 years now. I've been obsessed with Formula 1 since I was just a little kid.

Even though I've always kind of had a bone to pick with Lewis Hamilton, you have to admit he’s the best F1 driver on the planet right now.

Kyle Edwards5 said:Sebastian Vettel really needs to just shut up and stop making those excuses about not leaving space...
Honestly, he’s the only one to blame for how things went down today.
If Ferrari actually had cars sitting in P1 and P3 after that first lap—instead of what happened—one of them would've definitely walked away with the win.
As it stands, Lewis Hamilton was just straight-up faster than Kimi Raikkonen today.

I mean, ever since he started demanding that Kimi Raikkonen let him pass earlier this season, I haven't been able to take him seriously at all. He's totally lost my respect.

Henry Wilson34 said:It’s really not that black and white.
I’m not questioning Lewis Hamilton's skills—not even close! I mean, someone who isn't actually good wouldn't be able to drive the way he does. But let's be real here—Hamilton has been dominating since 2015, and honestly? He’s a way better driver than Nico Rosberg. In my opinion, the team's bias toward the German is exactly what cost Hamilton his 2016 title. That said, in this new era, Mercedes-Benz just hasn't had a legitimate rival until this year when Ferrari showed up—and man, they are lightyears ahead of everyone else! There are things other teams do routinely that are just unthinkable for Ferrari. And I'll be honest—as a huge Ferrari fan—the biggest thorn in my side is how Mercedes-Benz seems to break down every other year on the dot...

So, you have to take into account that Hamilton literally "doesn't need to worry" about anything except his own driving. He gets the best strategy, the most reliable car, and he's fast wherever he needs to be.
Just remember, back when Sebastian Vettel was in that same situation at Red Bull, he absolutely crushed it... ☕☕

Here’s how I see it—when Vettel was out front with the strongest car at Red Bull, he dominated. Put Vettel in first place and you know he’s going to drop fastest laps one after another.

But, once Vettel isn't leading the whole race, all kinds of stuff starts happening. He makes mistakes—way more often than Hamilton does—and he just doesn't have that raw aggression that Hamilton has. I don't think he ever will; you either have it or you don't, right?

Over the last two or three seasons, I’ve watched Vettel in the rain a few times. At least three times, he spun out or made a massive mistake. Compared to Lewis Hamilton, he’s just a much worse driver when the track is wet.

Henry Wilson34 said:Basically, just take it as a given that Lewis Hamilton literally "doesn't need to worry" about anything else besides his own driving. He’s got the best strategy, the most reliable car, and he's fast everywhere.
Just remember, when Vettel was in that exact same spot with Red Bull, Vettel dominated... ☕☕

He "dominated" by having his championship on the line until the final race twice against inferior cars, especially back in 2012. That's never going to happen to Lewis Hamilton. Honestly, he's sitting on a 30-point lead right now against a slightly faster car.

Lewis Hamilton would never let himself be threatened by a car that's as much of a downgrade as Ferrari was compared to Red Bull in 2012, whether it was Alonso or anyone else behind the wheel.

electriccanyon6 said:Just for the record, I've been a die-hard Ferrari fan since day one, and honestly, I think the Ferrari is the absolute best car on the grid this year, but let's be real—Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas are just better drivers than those two.

Lewis Hamilton > Sebastian Vettel > Valtteri Bottas > Kimi Raikkonen

putting Bottas ahead of Raikkonen? Yeah, definitely not happening this year.

darkmarlin16 said:Putting Bottas ahead of Raikkonen? Yeah, definitely not happening this year.

Look, Kimi Raikkonen really does know how to drive—he's incredible behind the wheel.
But let’s be totally real here—it’s been over five years since Raikkonen actually stood on top of the podium, going all the way back to 2013.

https://www.gp-hub.com/f1/compare-dr...altteri-bottas

Look, I’m not even trying to argue that Kimi Raikkonen hasn't been a way more accomplished driver over his career—I mean, the guy has more wins under his belt and actually took home the championship title! But man, let's be real... he hasn't been driving with that same old magic for a long, long time now.

electriccanyon6 said:Look, I’m not even trying to argue that Kimi Raikkonen hasn't been the more accomplished driver over the course of his career—he’s clearly won more and actually grabbed a championship title, so no arguments there. But man, he just hasn't been driving with that old-school magic for a long, long time now.

but honestly, he's actually looking pretty solid this year, which is a massive change from those previous seasons where he was basically just stumbling through the race.

The gap between Kimi Raikkonen and Valtteri Bottas is literally just 5 points.

Timothy Brown71 said:He dominated by having his title hanging in the balance twice against much inferior cars—especially back in 2012. It’s highly unlikely Lewis Hamilton will ever find himself in a spot where he’s fighting off inferior machinery like that; honestly, he’s currently sitting on a 30-point lead despite facing a slightly stronger car.

Lewis Hamilton would hardly let himself get threatened by a car that was as weak compared to its rival as the Ferrari was to Red Bull in 2012, regardless of whether Alonso was behind the wheel or anyone else.

This whole narrative about Ferrari being faster than Mercedes right now is nothing but pure propaganda. Ferrari is currently just good enough to show some potential, but they are nowhere near being the superior team. It doesn't matter if Ferrari has a more powerful engine if they're stuck with this specific set of strategists, bosses, and mechanics.

Regarding Vettel and that 2012 run, how old was Vettel back then compared to an established, seasoned champion like Alonso?
During 2010 and 2011, Vettel absolutely tore through the competition. If I recall correctly, he only missed out on about ten pole positions over those two seasons combined.
Furthermore, unlike Lewis Hamilton, who has a genuine wingman in Valtteri Bottas—who clearly doesn't mind playing second fiddle to Lewis—Vettel had to fight not just the other teams, but also Mark Webber and constant team orders. And you're trying to tell me he didn't dominate?

In the end, the geniuses over at Red Bull brought Ricciardo in and gave him all the support he needed in 2014, instead of continuing to back the four-time champion who had been driving for them all along.

electriccanyon6 said:The gap between Kimi Raikkonen and Valtteri Bottas is only about 5 points overall.

Well, Bottas had one DNF while Kimi Raikkonen had three. Kimi also hit the podium nine times out of the eleven races he finished—that's 82%.
Valtteri was at 6/12—50%.

Lewis Hamilton put on an absolute masterclass today. Truly a stellar drive... 👍 Both Ferraris crossed the line, and honestly, the whole weekend was just flawless. Absolutely clinical. Now *that* is how you write a headline...
This season is giving me some serious 2012 vibes... if I’m remembering my history correctly. It feels like we’re seeing a bit of a role reversal from back then. You had Vettel sitting pretty in the best car on the grid, while Lewis Hamilton has stepped into that Alonso role—just fighting tooth and nail with whatever the car allows, pouncing on every tiny mistake his rivals make... If my memory serves, Alonso had a massive lead right after the Italian Grand Prix, maybe something like 50 points or thereabouts. We all know how that story ended... 😁
Since we’re on the subject, I really don't get the people claiming the championship is already decided just because someone has a 30-point lead. We aren't looking at one race left; there are still seven races on the calendar. That's an entire third of the season left to play out... 30 points is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. Just look back at what happened in 2012. In my book, Vettel is still the favorite—I'd put the odds at about 60-40 right now, whereas before this race, I would have easily said 80-20. Once we hit Singapore, where we expect the usual struggles from Mercedes-Benz, it isn't even a stretch to think that lead could be cut in half...

Regarding the race itself, I have to agree that Vettel's decision to dive into that battle was just plain foolish. It’s like he hasn't learned a single thing from making practically the exact same mistakes last year... He's stuck in a loop. On the other hand, Lewis Hamilton knows that if he just cruises to the finish line, he'll likely lose the championship. He has to take risks because, at this point, he has absolutely nothing left to lose. Vettel really needs to keep that in mind before he does something else reckless...
If we’re looking at what actually went wrong, the worst-case scenario would have been if the top three had ended up being Kimi Raikkonen, Lewis Hamilton, and Sebastian Vettel. Honestly, it would have been a cakewalk for Vettel to take that win. If the Mercedes-Benz drivers were too busy fighting with Kimi Raikkonen, they would have basically handed Vettel a clear track... which would have let him stay out on those Soft tires much longer. And as we saw, that was clearly the superior strategy...

Henry Asks:
Looking at the historical data for Singapore, things seem to lean slightly toward Vettel, even though Mercedes has absolutely dominated that circuit over the last two seasons. It’s going to be a tight one...

Did you forget the race happened, or did you just not bother watching it?... 😁
Singapore is a nightmare for Mercedes, much like how MC struggles there... It’s one of those tracks that just doesn't suit them. Last year, they ended up stuck in fifth and sixth during qualifying, which was a massive shock considering how they absolutely dominated the race at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Ferrari and Red Bull were clearly ahead of them back then. Honestly, Lewis Hamilton only managed to snag that win because of the rain and Sebastian Vettel's chaotic start... he basically got handed the victory through no fault of his own. Looking at this season, I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes finds themselves firmly in third place again. My bet is on Ferrari being significantly ahead of Red Bull, though, since they seem to be the ones making the most progress lately...

mellowtiger83 said:I won't even go there... but the pressure on Sebastian Vettel right now is just unreal. One more mistake and his championship hopes are pretty much dead in the water. Meanwhile, Lewis Hamilton can basically do whatever he wants and still stay right in the thick of the fight...

I’m saying it again: everyone is overreacting. That performance gap could easily be cut in half by the time we hit Singapore... If Sebastian Vettel can just settle down, stop taking unnecessary risks, and focus on consistently finishing ahead of Lewis Hamilton—even after today's little blunder—he's in the game. Hamilton doesn't have much breathing room here. One DNF from him, for whatever reason, and it's basically over. At that point, Vettel would just need to finish ahead of Hamilton a few more times than the other way around, and honestly, given how the cars are performing right now, that doesn't seem like an impossible task...

Jack Kelly5 said:Toto explained that Valtteri Bottas's strategy was about as good as it gets. At least, from his perspective...
😬

The worst part is, 🤣 Bottas didn't really put up much of a fight against Max Verstappen during the first half of the race. Because they left him out there just to act as a buffer for Kimi Raikkonen, he ended up staying on track much longer and eventually had those fresh tires. He went after Max and ended up forcing a penalty... He probably couldn't have done better than third, though. If he had pitted when everyone else did, he likely would've just finished fourth.

It’s just brutal how much points were lost because of those drainage issues.