Setting the rules for the Reddit F1 championship 2013

Maybe you should start by opening a poll first—just to see if anyone actually wants to play in the championship.

redheron12 said:Maybe you should start by opening a poll first—just to see if anyone actually wants to play in the championship.

In my view, there's simply no point in discussing this right now. For one thing, how can anyone possibly know if they want to commit to a competition that doesn't even kick off for another six months? Furthermore, I suspect—and I'm likely not alone in this feeling—that the identity of the host and the specific set of rules we agree upon will play a massive role in whether or not people actually decide to sign up.

stormybadger8 If I recall correctly: said:Jason Campbell70[/URL] and Matthew Young35
I'm just not certain about their registration status or whether they actually want to participate in the poll.🤷

It depends on whether I decide to play in the next championship.

You know I've maintained from the start that the host shouldn't be one of the competitors in the championship. 😉

But here, the host isn't "just" a competitor; they are also a moderator.
And we can already see how that plays out;

Or even simpler!
I'm the host!

🙂

Basically—the host needs to be an impartial individual. Someone who clearly understands the current rules, isn't a moderator, and of course, isn't a competitor in the championship they are running.

Honestly, I don't care about any of that. All I want to know is if you're down to be in the poll, and whether you'll step up as the host to run the championship if the players pick you.🤷

Since I was mentioned, I figured I should weigh in.
I have absolutely no intention of participating as long as a small handful of people are allowed to spend their time nitpicking the rulebook and trolling everyone else just for the sake of it. It’s pretty obvious who we’re talking about.
Honestly, it has become exhausting.
Until that dynamic changes, you won't see me among the competitors—and if history is any indication, many others will be staying away too.

Matthew Young35 said:Since I was mentioned, I figured I should weigh in.
I have absolutely no intention of participating as long as a small handful of people are allowed to spend their time nitpicking the rulebook and trolling everyone else just for the sake of it. It’s pretty obvious who we’re talking about.
Honestly, it has become exhausting.
Until that dynamic changes, you won't see me among the competitors—and if history is any indication, many others will be staying away too.

🙏 🙏 🙏

Matthew Young35 said:Since I was mentioned, I figured I should weigh in.
I have absolutely no intention of participating as long as a small handful of people are allowed to spend their time nitpicking the rulebook and trolling everyone else just for the sake of it. It’s pretty obvious who we’re talking about.
Honestly, it has become exhausting.
Until that dynamic changes, you won't see me among the competitors—and if history is any indication, many others will be staying away too.

Accusations of trolling or mindless rule-lawyering are all too often used as an excuse when someone lacks any actual, coherent argument. To me, the "because I'm the host" defense sounds much worse—and nothing is more frustrating than seeing people hide behind moderator authority...

Personally, I find looking for loopholes in the rules to be fun—after all, even in Formula 1, teams constantly push the boundaries of regulations and specs—but it stops being fun when someone tries to force their own agenda through sheer intimidation. Using moderator powers as a hammer is, quite frankly, a form of bullying.

stormybadger8 said:Honestly, I don't care about any of that. All I want to know is if you're down to be in the poll, and whether you'll step up as the host to run the championship if the players pick you.🤷

As I mentioned at the start of my last post, whether or not I take part in the Reddit F1 championship 2013 will be the deciding factor here.

redheron12 said:Accusations of trolling or mindless rule-lawyering are all too often used as an excuse when someone lacks any actual, coherent argument. To me, the "because I'm the host" defense sounds much worse—and nothing is more frustrating than seeing people hide behind moderator authority...

Personally, I find looking for loopholes in the rules to be fun—after all, even in Formula 1, teams constantly push the boundaries of regulations and specs—but it stops being fun when someone tries to force their own agenda through sheer intimidation. Using moderator powers as a hammer is, quite frankly, a form of bullying.

Exactly.

DDD, EBD, flexible wings, floor designs, engine maps, adjusting ride height... isn't that just finding ways to exploit the rulebook?

It’s just an added bonus for the championship, considering it's modeled after real-world F1 racing. 🙂

Jason Campbell70 said:As I mentioned at the start of my last post, whether or not I take part in the Reddit F1 championship 2013 will be the deciding factor here.

Look, sorry, but I’m not interested in playing guessing games about what you're thinking or if you're actually going to race...
All I care about is whether you want to be in the poll and if you want to be the host.
Your plans regarding the championship? Literally don't matter to me.

stormybadger8 said:Look, sorry, but I’m not interested in playing guessing games about what you're thinking or if you're actually going to race...
All I care about is whether you want to be in the poll and if you want to be the host.
Your plans regarding the championship? Literally don't matter to me.

To be honest, I couldn't care less if Jason Campbell70 decides to host or not. It's just the rest of the discussion that keeps me reading. 🤷

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. 🤣

Matthew Young35 said:Since I was mentioned, I figured I should weigh in.
I have absolutely no intention of participating as long as a small handful of people are allowed to spend their time nitpicking the rulebook and trolling everyone else just for the sake of it. It’s pretty obvious who we’re talking about.
Honestly, it has become exhausting.
Until that dynamic changes, you won't see me among the competitors—and if history is any indication, many others will be staying away too.

So, why do I think it's way better if the host actually writes their own rules? Honestly, I’d even prefer a total overhaul with a completely different scoring system.

Up until now, we've dealt with nothing but nonsense where someone else writes the rules, the hosts just copy-paste them without even reading them... and it happens all the time where the hosts aren't even sure how to handle a situation, so they end up asking everyone and their mother for advice.
Then, naturally, everyone starts interpreting and explaining the rules their own way, a decision gets made... and then, of course, the person who originally wrote the rules shows up... and suddenly you've got a whole debate about what was "intended" or how things used to be done.
And in the end, you just have total chaos because the new decision usually contradicts whatever happened before.

That's exactly why I think this is the most important factor. I’m voting for whoever writes their own rules. If we don't pick them and end up stuck with the same old "copy-paste" rules again, I might just skip the championship entirely.

stormybadger8 said:So, why do I think it's way better if the host actually writes their own rules? Honestly, I’d even prefer a total overhaul with a completely different scoring system.

Up until now, we've dealt with nothing but nonsense where someone else writes the rules, the hosts just copy-paste them without even reading them... and it happens all the time where the hosts aren't even sure how to handle a situation, so they end up asking everyone and their mother for advice.
Then, naturally, everyone starts interpreting and explaining the rules their own way, a decision gets made... and then, of course, the person who originally wrote the rules shows up... and suddenly you've got a whole debate about what was "intended" or how things used to be done.
And in the end, you just have total chaos because the new decision usually contradicts whatever happened before.

That's exactly why I think this is the most important factor. I’m voting for whoever writes their own rules. If we don't pick them and end up stuck with the same old "copy-paste" rules again, I might just skip the championship entirely.

Why do you think anything would change if someone just wrote new rules from scratch?
It would be the exact same shit.
The same people would still be trolling.
Just a handful of them, whose sole purpose in life is to troll and nothing else.
Until the moderators hand out four or five permanent bans, there won't be a competition that attracts anyone other than a few trolls.
☕

stormybadger8 said:Look, sorry, but I’m not interested in playing guessing games about what you're thinking or if you're actually going to race...
All I care about is whether you want to be in the poll and if you want to be the host.
Your plans regarding the championship? Literally don't matter to me.

I'm telling you, I just can't give you a definitive answer this early.
You know me—making snap judgments or sudden decisions only to backtrack later isn't how I operate. 🙂

Besides, why rush? Let's see how the current Championship wraps up first, then we can move on to the next one.

Jason Campbell70 said:I'm telling you, I just can't give you a definitive answer this early.
You know me—making snap judgments or sudden decisions only to backtrack later isn't how I operate. 🙂

Besides, why rush? Let's see how the current Championship wraps up first, then we can move on to the next one.

Alright, fine. You get one last shot while I'm feeling generous.

Answer these two questions straight:
1. Do you want to be included in the poll?
2. Will you host the championship if the players vote for you?

Any answer other than a simple "yes" or "no" is going to be treated as bottom-tier trolling, and I'll issue a ban accordingly.

Matthew Young35 said:Why do you think anything would change if someone just wrote new rules from scratch?
It would be the exact same shit.
The same people would still be trolling.
Just a handful of them, whose sole purpose in life is to troll and nothing else.
Until the moderators hand out four or five permanent bans, there won't be a competition that attracts anyone other than a few trolls.
☕

Of course things would change.
If the host writes their own rules, then nobody gets to argue about what the previous rule-writer intended or how Max used to run things back in the day.
If there's a dispute, the host makes an argued decision and that's that. Period.

Up until now, everything has been a mess because Max spent half his time explaining his logic, and everyone else was doing the same thing...
With new rules, there's no more "but this is how it used to be" or "this is what Max meant when he wrote the rules."

Plus, the host could easily just drop a clause in the handbook like this:

Once results are posted, any player who thinks they were wronged or that the math is off has a 48-hour window to file an appeal.
Other players have no right to play lawyer or file appeals on behalf of someone else.
After that deadline passes, the results are final.☕

And 👋 that's it. Anyone who ignores that rule and tries to drag us into endless debates gets carded for trolling.
But you can't expect me to go around handing out cards just because someone is trying to explain how they followed the current rules, or what they thought the rules meant, or how things were handled similarly in the past under the same rulebook...

stormybadger8 said:Of course things would change.
If the host writes their own rules, then nobody gets to argue about what the previous rule-writer intended or how Max used to run things back in the day.
If there's a dispute, the host makes an argued decision and that's that. Period.

Up until now, everything has been a mess because Max spent half his time explaining his logic, and everyone else was doing the same thing...
With new rules, there's no more "but this is how it used to be" or "this is what Max meant when he wrote the rules."

Plus, the host could easily just drop a clause in the handbook like this:

Once results are posted, any player who thinks they were wronged or that the math is off has a 48-hour window to file an appeal.
Other players have no right to play lawyer or file appeals on behalf of someone else.
After that deadline passes, the results are final.☕

And 👋 that's it. Anyone who ignores that rule and tries to drag us into endless debates gets carded for trolling.
But you can't expect me to go around handing out cards just because someone is trying to explain how they followed the current rules, or what they thought the rules meant, or how things were handled similarly in the past under the same rulebook...

No matter how perfect we make the rulebook (and let's be honest, none of us are practicing criminal defense attorneys), people will never be satisfied. They'll just troll.

The only way this championship actually functions is if the host acts like a dictator—deciding on the fly how to apply the rules (whether they are two lines or fifty pages long) and mercilessly banning anyone who dares question his interpretation.
The current setup has become exhausting for most of us, serving as nothing more than fuel for a few trolls to amuse themselves.

Matthew Young35 said:No matter how perfect we make the rulebook (and let's be honest, none of us are practicing criminal defense attorneys), people will never be satisfied. They'll just troll.

The only way this championship actually functions is if the host acts like a dictator—deciding on the fly how to apply the rules (whether they are two lines or fifty pages long) and mercilessly banning anyone who dares question his interpretation.
The current setup has become exhausting for most of us, serving as nothing more than fuel for a few trolls to amuse themselves.

Normal people would be fine with just a few basic rules.

But with this group of competitors and hosts? Even two long posts outlining fifteen detailed rules wouldn't be enough.

stormybadger8 said:Fine, you get one last chance while I'm being reasonable.

Answer these questions:
1. Do you want to be included in the poll?
2. Will you act as the host if the players choose you?

Any response other than "yes" or "no" will be treated as the worst kind of trolling, and I will issue a penalty accordingly.

Hey, you're digging up a post from two months ago. It was written under completely different circumstances than today. The situation has changed.

That offer was made at a different time, in a different context. ☕

Back then, I was willing to be a moderator, and even willing to participate in the championship as a competitor at the same time.
Right now? As a competitor, I DO NOT want to be the host.

Consequently, I can only decide whether or not to serve as the host for the Formula 1 2013 season once I decide if I'm competing in it. Not before.

And the fact that you—even though you aren't the host, just a moderator—are suggesting that the users vote long before the current championship ends doesn't change my decision regarding participating as either a competitor or a potential host.

It’s quite simple, really. No need to overcomplicate things on my end.
I'll likely make my decision about next year's championship after the final race of the current season. I need to look back and weigh all the pros and cons of participating.

You could just wait for this season to wrap up, clear the air, and then start fresh by thinking about next season.
Why argue about the current season and the next one simultaneously, especially when the next season doesn't start for another six months?

My advice? We have all of December, January, and February to think about the Formula 1 2013 season. Why rush?

If you insist on rushing, my answer is clear: don't count on me.

Jason Campbell70 said:Normal people would be fine with just a few basic rules.

But with this group of competitors and hosts? Even two long posts outlining fifteen detailed rules wouldn't be enough.

Hey, you're digging up a post from two months ago. It was written under completely different circumstances than today. The situation has changed.

That offer was made at a different time, in a different context. ☕

Back then, I was willing to be a moderator, and even willing to participate in the championship as a competitor at the same time.
Right now? As a competitor, I DO NOT want to be the host.

Consequently, I can only decide whether or not to serve as the host for the Formula 1 2013 season once I decide if I'm competing in it. Not before.

And the fact that you—even though you aren't the host, just a moderator—are suggesting that the users vote long before the current championship ends doesn't change my decision regarding participating as either a competitor or a potential host.

It’s quite simple, really. No need to overcomplicate things on my end.
I'll likely make my decision about next year's championship after the final race of the current season. I need to look back and weigh all the pros and cons of participating.

You could just wait for this season to wrap up, clear the air, and then start fresh by thinking about next season.
Why argue about the current season and the next one simultaneously, especially when the next season doesn't start for another six months?

My advice? We have all of December, January, and February to think about the Formula 1 2013 season. Why rush?

If you insist on rushing, my answer is clear: don't count on me.

Because I know how this PDF works. Everything will either be settled during the season, or it won't get settled at all.😢

I've been through this before. No matter how hard I try to arrange things after the season ends, nobody gives a damn until after the first race—usually once some drama starts unfolding regarding the results...

Then, predictably, it’s total chaos with the hosts. Who’s doing what, how it's happening, what the actual rules even are, etc.
We’ve literally written the rules a few minutes before the start, or even worse, right after qualifying or the race is over.

So, trust me when I say this: if anything gets decided, it'll happen by the final race of this season. If it isn't settled by then, it simply isn't happening.🤦

Jason Campbell70 said:Normal people would be fine with just a few basic rules.

But with this group of competitors and hosts? Even two long posts outlining fifteen detailed rules wouldn't be enough.

Hey, you're digging up a post from two months ago. It was written under completely different circumstances than today. The situation has changed.

That offer was made at a different time, in a different context. ☕

Back then, I was willing to be a moderator, and even willing to participate in the championship as a competitor at the same time.
Right now? As a competitor, I DO NOT want to be the host.

Consequently, I can only decide whether or not to serve as the host for the Formula 1 2013 season once I decide if I'm competing in it. Not before.

And the fact that you—even though you aren't the host, just a moderator—are suggesting that the users vote long before the current championship ends doesn't change my decision regarding participating as either a competitor or a potential host.

It’s quite simple, really. No need to overcomplicate things on my end.
I'll likely make my decision about next year's championship after the final race of the current season. I need to look back and weigh all the pros and cons of participating.

You could just wait for this season to wrap up, clear the air, and then start fresh by thinking about next season.
Why argue about the current season and the next one simultaneously, especially when the next season doesn't start for another six months?

My advice? We have all of December, January, and February to think about the Formula 1 2013 season. Why rush?

If you insist on rushing, my answer is clear: don't count on me.

Fine, thanks for the answer.👍

Matthew Young35 said:No matter how perfect we make the rulebook (and let's be honest, none of us are practicing criminal defense attorneys), people will never be satisfied. They'll just troll.

The only way this championship actually functions is if the host acts like a dictator—deciding on the fly how to apply the rules (whether they are two lines or fifty pages long) and mercilessly banning anyone who dares question his interpretation.
The current setup has become exhausting for most of us, serving as nothing more than fuel for a few trolls to amuse themselves.

Well, you've got that wrong.🤣🤣🤣
I know we have three lawyers on this forum😁 they don't hang out here much, but they drop by... two of them even played in all the competitions, as far as I know.😁

Matthew Young35 said:No matter how perfect we make the rulebook (and let's be honest, none of us are practicing criminal defense attorneys), people will never be satisfied. They'll just troll.

The only way this championship actually functions is if the host acts like a dictator—deciding on the fly how to apply the rules (whether they are two lines or fifty pages long) and mercilessly banning anyone who dares question his interpretation.
The current setup has become exhausting for most of us, serving as nothing more than fuel for a few trolls to amuse themselves.

The other way is for the Host to write their own set of rules, state their decisions clearly and loudly, back them up with logic, and then refuse to backtrack.
If trolling or arguing starts up, then the moderator can just hand out bans without hesitation...
People can complain all they want afterward, but they chose this Host and these rules themselves; they chose to play.

That's exactly why I'm saying I'll only play if the Host writes their own rules. If we stick to the old ones, I'm out—mostly because of the constant whining and trolling about whether the moderator is biased due to their own results and all that.
But yeah, if I have to ban someone... oh, I definitely will.😍

To be honest, I haven't seen much point in punishing posts like "this is how I thought it meant," or "that's how he intended it," or "this is how we've always done it," because Max wrote those rules... so clearly, nobody can interpret them better than Max, right?
And besides, how is the Host supposed to interpret what Max was thinking when he wrote them? Other players can try to interpret them the same way.
It's ridiculous how many times we've seen nonsense where the Host's decisions are challenged using the logic of what the rule-writer supposedly meant—like, "it says A here but B there," or "why use A instead of B right now?" and so on.

Here’s my take on it:
Max can spend the rest of his life explaining whatever he meant regarding Bjesomar's rule, but for me, the only person who matters when clarifying doubts about that rule is Bjesomar himself.☕
And unfortunately, that same logic works both ways.😬

And even if he actually gives a wise explanation... and then uses that chance to go on a massive trolling spree... if I give him a warning card, it just looks like I'm trying to shut him up, while he plays the poor, innocent guy who's just trying to help explain the rules...
And he’s definitely not the only one pulling that stunt. There are plenty of others... honestly, pretty much everyone involved in those debates ends up doing the same thing eventually.