Long live the new king!

fadedwalker18 said:Just when Honda finally gets their act together—around 2017, maybe?—Vettel and Ferrari will be facing some serious trouble trying to clinch the F1 Championship.

Well, even if Honda does manage to find their rhythm, the real question remains: will McLaren ever actually get back on track?☕

jadeseal7 said:Maybe Honda gets their act together—but the real question is whether McLaren can actually pull it off. ☕

I've been saying for ages—it's McLaren that's the weak link here, not Honda.

McLaren’s been building absolute garbage cars for years now—honestly.

Don't forget—McLaren used to run Mercedes engines back in the day. Those Mercedes power units were practically legendary.

And what did he go and do? Ruined Marijan's kit!

vividlynx68 said:Interesting read. I wasn't aware of all the specifics, especially regarding how Alonso ended up at McLaren.

I just don't get why LdM would bother bringing an average driver like Hakkinen over to Ferrari... when they already had Irvine. 🤔

At that point, there wasn't a better option. Under the right circumstances, even a mediocre driver can find success. We have plenty of examples of that.

jadeseal7 said:Maybe Ford finally gets their act together—but the real question is whether McLaren can actually pull it off... ☕

🙂🙂🙂

ruggedhawk20 said:I've been saying this forever—in this marriage, McLaren is definitely the weak link, not Ford.

🙂🙂🙂

McLaren has been putting out absolute garbage cars for years now.

So what did Ford even do here? Who’s actually responsible for this mess—is it McLaren or Ford? Honestly, I think it's pretty obvious, though I'm not sure why I'm even asking... 🙂

neonfox65 said:🙂🙂🙂

🙂🙂🙂

So what exactly did Ford do this time? Who is actually responsible for this mess—is it McLaren or Ford? It seems fairly obvious to everyone, though I suppose I'm asking anyway.🙂

It's McLaren, obviously. Even Mercedes wouldn't touch it if they tried to package it that way at the rear.

Ford is just too weak, if you ask me.

Man, if they had actually fixed that issue, they could've sorted it out in a single race—just a simple expansion and they'd be good to go—but obviously, Ford is struggling to deliver any real power...

Ford has much bigger issues than just engine power. I recently started working on a project with a massive Japanese corporation, and man, their mindset is something else. They follow vertical hierarchy down to the micron; there is zero chance a lower-level employee would dare act independently or even pitch an idea to someone above them unless it’s their direct supervisor.

So, if you happen to have some idiot in charge, but the guy below him actually has a brilliant idea or initiative, everything goes to hell because the higher-ups never even hear about it.

There is no way an intern is going to speak directly to a director, let alone a board member or something similar. It doesn't matter how good the idea is.

The larger the company, the more pronounced the issue becomes. And Ford is a massive entity...

steelmaker83 said:And honestly, the bigger the corporation, the more glaring those structural issues become. And Ford is a massive entity...

That’s a fair point—I really hope things aren't handled that way at Ford, and that they actually value some level of horizontal organization, though—well, who knows how these giants operate...

As both neonfox65 and Joe pointed out, McLaren spent all those years running a Mečkin engine, and then last year they finally had the BEST engine available, yet they still ended up completely underwhelming...

Then they go and ink this deal with Ford, cramming everything into such a tight package that even Newey wouldn't have dared to design it that way—not to mention throwing in that new Ford PU that’s already a year behind schedule—and there you have it: a wasted season. It feels like McLaren has a totally skewed perspective. They seem to think radical shifts are the magic bullet for championships; maybe it works once in a blue moon, but usually, it just backfires...

Just look at Ferrari—they put in the hard work and steady effort, and now they’ve managed three wins this year after barely scraping a single podium last season.

mellowtiger83 said:It’s McLaren, obviously. Even Mercedes wouldn't try to pack it in like that at the rear end.

Funny how two teams with such extreme packaging end up with similar PU issues... looks like Podrom just copied Newey, except he probably grabbed the blueprints that were supposed to go straight into the trash.😬

But honestly, it seems like the biggest headache for everyone in the order (or the big advantage for Mečka) is actually the brake-by-wire system and just managing the hybrid electrical charge. In that department, the team seems way more critical than even the PU manufacturer itself...
Because everything can look great on a spec sheet in a factory, but it's a whole different story once you see how it actually behaves under real track conditions during heavy braking...
And I wouldn't be surprised if the massive screw-up is right there in McLaren's territory, with them basically giving Honda instructions on how to handle that specific MGU part of the PU...

In fact, the McLaren car looks awesome in terms of launch power, but then it just falls apart before you're even halfway through a lap...
Which suggests they have a massive deficit in battery capacity compared to the rest, rather than the actual max output of the PU being significantly lower...
There are a few possible reasons for that...
a.) The batteries lack capacity.
b.) The generators are too weak to charge them properly.
c.) Some kid messed up the brake-by-wire integration or the charging duration/power—my money is on this one.

Regardless, McLaren knows their stuff when it comes to KERS, they've dealt with hybrids like this in their own cars, and they definitely have the software experience...
So it's pretty surprising that the biggest Achilles' heel for McLaren-Honda is the exact area where Honda should be dominating thanks to McLaren's input...

Plus, when you look at the struggles Red Bull had with Renault on the same issue, it really brings back memories of those huge problems Red Bull faced years ago with KERS...
Either KERS was constantly failing, or they supposedly had a much weaker system than everyone else...
So regarding that, I'm not entirely convinced that Renault is solely to blame for that partnership failing; I actually think it was largely due to Red Bull's own mess-ups...

stormybadger8 said:It’s interesting how two teams with such extreme packaging end up facing similar issues with the PU... it looks like Podrom tried to copy Newey, except he seemingly grabbed the exact blueprints that were supposed to be tossed in the trash.😬

But honestly, the massive hurdle for everyone—or rather, the advantage held by Mečka—seems to be the brake-by-wire system and just managing the energy recovery for that hybrid setup. In that regard, the team itself seems far more critical than the actual PU manufacturer...
Because everything can look perfect on a workbench in a factory, but it's a completely different story once you see how it actually behaves under real track conditions during hard braking...
And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the biggest headache lies right within the McLaren department—perhaps they were even the ones giving Honda specific instructions on how to handle that MGU component of the PU...

In fact, the McLaren car looks incredibly strong in terms of initial launch power, but then it just falls apart before even hitting the halfway mark of a lap...
Which suggests they have a massive deficit in stored electrical energy compared to the rest of the field, rather than having a significantly lower peak PU output...
I can think of a few possible reasons for that...
a.) The batteries lack sufficient capacity
b.) The generators are too weak to charge the batteries effectively
c.) Some engineer messed up the brake-by-wire integration or the charging duration/intensity—my money is on this being the culprit.

Regardless, McLaren has plenty of experience with KERS systems, plenty of work with hybrids of this caliber in their own road cars, and solid software expertise in this area too...
So, it’s actually quite surprising that the Achilles' heel for McLaren-Honda is precisely the area where Honda should be strongest thanks to McLaren's input...

Besides, when you look at the struggles Red Bull had with Renault regarding the same issue, it really brings back memories of those massive KERS problems Red Bull dealt with years ago...
The KERS was constantly failing, and word was they were running a much weaker system than the competition...
So, looking at it that way, I'm not entirely convinced that Renault is solely to blame for that partnership's failure; I suspect a good portion of that mess was down to Red Bull themselves...

It's strange that McLaren-Honda hasn't reached out to Rimac yet to have them fix the battery issues!

steelmaker83 said:Ford has way bigger issues than just engine power. I recently started doing some work with this massive Japanese corporation. It’s wild how those guys think. They stick to that vertical hierarchy down to the micron—there's basically zero chance someone lower down would ever dare to do anything on their own, or even pitch an idea to a superior unless it's their direct boss.

So if you get some idiot in charge, and the guy below him actually has a solid idea or some initiative, everything just goes to hell because the higher-ups never even hear about it.

There's no way an intern is gonna go directly to a director, let alone a board member or whatever. No matter how good the idea is.

And the bigger the company, the worse the problem gets. And Ford is a massive company...

The Koreans are in the same boat, man... they had four planes crash—passenger and cargo alike—because of this exact thing. Once investigators figured out why the fourth one went down, the people involved almost committed mass suicide, or whatever their version of that is. But looks like they finally moved past that, so the crashes stopped.

Man... imagine a co-pilot and a flight engineer seeing the captain's attitude indicator showing the wrong position—when there are two other working ones right there—and they don't even dare say anything, just flying straight into a disaster.

swiftmaker12 said:It really makes you wonder why McLaren-Honda hasn't reached out to Rimac yet to see if they could sort out those battery issues!

🤣
good

swiftmaker12 said:It’s wild that McLaren-Honda hasn't reached out to Rimac yet to have them fix those battery issues!

I gotta admit, it caught me off guard too... then I remembered that kind of thing just isn't in their DNA.😁

jadeseal7 said:Whatever—I just hope things aren't like that at Ford and they actually respect some kind of flat hierarchy... but hey, who knows...

And neonfox65, like you and Joe said, McLaren had a Mečkin engine all these years, then last year they finally got the BEST engine and they still sucked...

Then they ink this deal with Ford, cram everything into such a tiny space that even Newey wouldn't dare design it like that—plus throw in that Ford PU being a year late—and there you go, a ruined season. McLaren's whole approach is totally warped. They think radical moves win championships... maybe once in a blue moon, but usually? No....

Look at Ferrari—hard work, actual effort, and they’ve got three wins this year after barely hitting a podium last year.

I'm just saying what everyone already knows—the biggest culprit is HONDA. Even Alonso called them a "GP2 engine," and the media is constantly reporting they're lagging by over 100 HP.

neonfox65, how can you possibly blame Honda right now as if they’re just some engine supplier rather than a full partner in this joint venture? 🤷

But look, we know where the line is drawn between what's McLaren's responsibility and what belongs to Honda. You can't have the chassis crew meddling with engine development—that’s just not how it works. It's pretty obvious that Honda is the main culprit here since they're always the ones in the spotlight—and because you can actually see the impact out on the track... I honestly don't get how anyone could argue otherwise.🙂

neonfox65 said:Look, we have to be realistic here about where the responsibility lies—there's a clear line between what McLaren handles and what Honda manages. You can't exactly have the folks designing the chassis stepping in to fix the engine internals, right? It’s just not how it works. In my opinion, it's pretty obvious that Honda is the primary culprit here—mostly because they are always the center of the conversation and, frankly, their issues are the most glaringly apparent when you watch them out on the track. I honestly don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.🙂

I honestly can't wait for that Honda engine to actually start performing—just so we can finally see exactly what kind of mess McLaren has cooked up... because, let's face it, they always seem to be at their best when things are falling apart.

jadeseal7 said:Man, I just wish that Honda would actually work—then we’d finally see what a total disaster McLaren has built... because they always seem to be at their worst when things are failing.

Look, there's no way they're the absolute bottom of the pack—they wouldn't even be behind a Manor running an old Ferrari engine if Manor had the same Ferrari power as the other customer teams. If that were the case, McLaren would be dead last. And honestly? I don't buy that McLaren built such a junk chassis... word on the street is their chassis is actually one of the better ones out there.

neonfox65, back when Mercedes had that warp drive, even the underdogs over at Williams were looking way more impressive than McLaren. Honda is a total disaster, but there's definitely more to this mess than just one single issue.

William Bennett53 said:neonfox65, back when Mercedes had that crazy warp drive, those guys at Williams were actually way more impressive than McLaren...

And McLaren went from finishing FIFTH straight to being NINTH.